Lease Questions - Ask Here

dianeb773 · June 2001

Car Man,

I'm sorry, it's me again. I was just going over final numbers as I gave the dealer a $500.00 down payment. The invoice that I just figured out on Edmunds came to $35,916 and the dealer quoted me $36,375 a difference of $459. I'm so trying not to get a bad deal and I'm hoping I'm right. The MSRP for the A6 2.8 is $40,100 because it does not have the Celebration package. The Leather, sunroof cold weather is all on as separate items. Can you help me figure out if $539 a month is a good deal which includes 8.5% Illinois tax and Chicago Lease tax plus 12K miles for 39 months. So sorry to bug you again.
Thanks, Diane

gwarren · June 2001

Car_Man,
I have not seen any posts from you in a couple of days. I am still negotiating on the Lexus RX 300 Lease and these are the figures I received from the dealer regarding a Lease.
Based on a 39 month:
1)Residual is 59% 2)Money Factor .00300 (7.2%)

The vehicle I am looking at has a $37,666 MSRP and
Invoice appears to be around $33,180

I received an offer for $425.00 a month + tax
Claims this is based on Cap Cost of 32,800 (yes under invoice).

I did the calculations and this does work out exactly within $5.00. The deal sounds very good, but dealer says must be made this week as the incentive is only through June. What incentive is there and how much? I can not find reference to any dealer incentives from Lexus. Obviously if he came under invoice there must be a lot. Also does this truly expire in June. I really do not want to buy this week as my current lease is not due for 2 weeks. I can wait, but do not wish to pass on a very fair deal.

thanks for the help

Gary Warren

drew37 · June 2001

I have seen your posts and am curious to know why you have certain items broken down separately per month, i.e., 12 k miles, bose , no down payment. Also, what do you mean when you say "...leather, sunroof, cold weather is all on as separate items" ? It seems like you have quite a few numbers going on which can make things somewhat confusing. They should be using a simple formula to figure your lease using the MSRP, residual, cap cost (amount you are "paying" for the car),and money factor. What are these numbers on your lease, by the way? Where I am (Michigan) a A6 2.8 with MSRP of 40,000 is leasing for about $465, which includes a 6% state sales tax. I realize your taxes are much higher. I am curious to see what Car_man says about your lease.

dianeb773 · June 2001

The deal going on right now is a $399.00 per month lease for a $38,550.00 MSRP A6 2.8 10k per year quattro with the Celebration (inc. leather & sunroof) and Cold weather packages. The car that they have in the silver w/black leather has these items as separate items (no celebration pkg) so the MSRP is $40,100.00. The lease is still $399.00 but it's $20 more for 12K per year, extra to cover the MSRP difference and I'm rolling in the $1000 down payment as well. And then you have those darned Illinois and Chicago taxes. The dealer is going to see if he can get me a Celebration package car from another dealer because that's the way I want to go since it's the cheaper alternative for the same items. There is one on the way but it won't be in until the first or second week in July and he's not sure if the leasing deal of $399.00 will still be available.

Does anyone know if Audi is going to continue the deal through July? I may just take my chances anyway. I'm not in any hurry.

max63 · June 2001

Diane, have you checked the national ads in the paper for the audi a6. I think you were talking about a $535 with tax payment on a 2.8. The ad on the A6 I saw this week, was on a 2.7 Quat., sticker 43,000 was 499 a month + tax - The only thing due at time of signing was the first months payment 499+tax+title and lic. , which is about $600. Also this is a 48 month lease with 10,000 miles so it might cost a little more for 12,000. However after just getting out of my 2.8 lease, I would suggest you go with the 2.7. The additional power is well worth it,(plus many more features inlcuding the bose) I dont think you would regret it. Great car - good luck with the lease. I think the car is covered 4 years or 50,000 miles, so a 48 month lease is not a bad way to go. With 39 months you have to make that extra DMV payment.

dianeb773 · June 2001

There is a $399.00 39 month, 10K lease on the 2.8 in the Chicago area. The local dealers seem to be advertising it more than the national ads. The ads seem to be for the 2.7 at $499.00. Thanks for the advice.

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Gary, Lexus is not currently providing any sort of cash or rate support on the 2001 RX 300. So if you were to lease one through Lexus Financial Services right now for 36 or 39 months its lease money factor should be .00300 for both terms. The corresponding 15,000 miles per year residual values for a 2001 RX 300 4x4 non-Value Package, non-Silversport, non-Navigation model should be 58% for 36 months and 57% for 39 months.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Hi Dzayia. There's no need to feel ignorant. Leasing can be very complicated and for the most part dealerships and manufacturers do not do anything to help consumers to understand how it works. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this car for you. I need to know this car's exact full MSRP in order to calculate a monthly payment, so I will approximate what I think it should be using the equipment that you posted. Please correct me if I am wrong. If you choose to lease a 2001 BMW 330i with the Premium Pkg. & auto trans (MSRP: $38,810) through BMW Financial Services for $38,461 over 3 years with 15,000 miles per, your approximate $0 down pre-tax monthly payment should be $551. I have the feeling that your car may have a few unmentioned options that would make its full MSRP higher than the one that I used in my calculations. Again, if that is the case, please let me know and I would be more than happy to recalculate your payments for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Akrick, this is actually a very commonly asked question. The answer is, no you definitely do not have to return a leased vehicle to the dealership that you originally obtained it from. Different banks have different lease-end procedures, but if you lease through VW Credit as you mentioned in your post then you should be able to return your car to any Volkswagen dealership that you choose.

I can certainly understand why you would want to lease your new vehicle in a state other than Alaska. From what I have heard, Alaskan dealers know that they don't have much competition and usually aren't all that willing to provide consumers with decent prices. If you decide to lease a 2001.5 Passat GLS 1.8t through VW Credit prior to July 2nd for 24 months and with 10,000 miles per year the lease money factor and residual value should be .00245 and 68% respectively.

Good luck shopping for your new Passat and enjoy your vacation!

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gwarren · June 2001

Car_Man
Thanks for the info. by the way here are the exact particulars. I am looking at the "4x2" and not 4x4. It is the non silver sport, white with premium plus package. I am told the 39 month residual is "59% with 12,000" miles, and that there is some sort of dealer incentive through June. How else could they quote me under invoice?

It sounds like a very fair deal based on today rates and factors. Is it possible that
a) there will be an incentive in July
I) this deal will truly not be available, after June 30th (or is it just a scare tactic)?
Thanks again,
Gary

dzayia · June 2001

car man:
thanks for the response. the msrp is $39,495, my price is $38,460. the dealer has advised of a 62% residual and a .0021 money factor based on 12,000 miles per year. does the residual sound right....i thought it should be around 65-67%??

thanks in advance!!

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Hi dj. It certainly looks to me as though you are getting a decent deal on the Accord that you are interested in leasing. Interesting enough, for some reason Honda's lease rates are actually lower on the non-Value Package models than ones with the Value Package (about 4.3% vs. about 6.6%). Still, for a VP model it is a good deal. If you like the car, I don't see any reason not to go for it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Greetings volvobuyer. Say, I thought that you are looking to buy a Volvo, not lease a Mercedes-Benz

. I guess that you changed your mind. If you decide to lease a 2001 Mercedes-Benz ML320 through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corporation prior to the end of the month for 3 years and with 12,000 miles per I believe that the lease money factor and residual value should be .00354 and 65% respectively. You might also be interested in the fact that, Mercedes-Benz is providing its dealers with $1,500 Dealer Cash on the 2001 ML320 & ML430 that I believe may be used to reduce leased vehicles' capitalized costs. Make sure to try to take this cash into account in your negotiations.

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dpayne1 · June 2001

After months of looking for a decent used Suburban, 3 to 4 years old with reasonable mileage, I am now looking at leasing a new Suburban. I have $2400 in GM card earnings, and a $1000. loyalty discount for the suburban that will be traded(worth about 2K). This is my thought: lease for 3 years 12k per year on a $34,800 purchase. The payments are $450/month residual value $22,500.
I would cost me at least $450/ month to buy a decent used Burb, I take great care of my cars, so after 3years I purchase the truck that I have babied for the last three years.
I get the used burban I really want, and get to enjoy a the new truck for three years at a payment lower than that of a used "un-known truck

Am I Crazy??

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Hi shap1. Right now BMW is advertising a lease on a very similar car to the one that you are interested in. According to their ad, you can lease a 2001 325i with an MSRP of $27,635 for $329 per month with $2,500 down over 36 months and with 10,000 miles per year. This deal is certainly more attractive than the one that you were quoted, even if you take the $2,500 down payment and tax into account. Not only that, but I would guess that there is probably some room left for negotiation in the advertised deal. The fact that the dealership that you are working with has to pay off your remaining lease payments on your V70 is certainly hampering your ability to negotiate on the BMW. Ideally you should probably wait until your V70 lease is scheduled to expire to lease a new vehicle. However, if you really want a new car now or if you feel as though you might miss out on a unit that this dealership has in stock then I can see why you would go for the higher lease payment.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Burrsr, the lease data for that the dealership provided you with for this car is right on the money. It is nice to see that they are being so straightforward with you. Also, you are correct, you would need to increase BMW Financial Services' residual values by 3% if you want to lease this car with only 10,000 miles per year. I am not sure why you are not able to come up with a payment for this car that is close to the $299 per month that BMW is advertising in your calculations. The MSRP for the advertised vehicle is $31,945. When you subtract the $2,000 Dealer Cash, the $2,500 consumer down payment, and a discount of around $1,300 from the MSRP it gives you a capitalized cost that will produce a payment of right around $299 per month before tax.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Mtnsun, the incentives information that you found for the Subaru Outback on this site sounds like it is misleading. Right now Subaru it providing its dealers with $750 Dealer Cash that may not be used in conjunction with their special lease or financing programs on the 2001 Outback. In lieu of this Dealer Cash, there is $300 Lease Cash on this vehicle that can be used in conjunction with their special lease money factors. So the person who you spoke with at Cars Direct was correct.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Diane, I would be happy to let you know what I think of your deal. OK, you said that you want to lease a 2001 Audi A6 2.8L quattro with an MSRP of $40,100 for 39 months and with 12,000 miles per year. Using the lease money factor that the dealer quoted you, which is right on the money by the way, if you were able to get this car for $37,095 you should be able to lease it for about $437 per month without any money down and before tax. So the payment that they quoted you, $539 per month, sounds a little on the high side to me, even if it does include taxes.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Gary, given all of the competition in the luxury SUV segment right now it would not surprise me if Lexus was providing some sort of Dealer Cash on the RX 300 right now, but I certainly have not heard about any yet. It is difficult to say what Lexus will do with its incentives for this truck in July. I would be surprised if they decreased, but then again one can never predict what a manufacturer will do with their future incentives programs with 100% accuracy. By the way, the residual value that you were quoted for the 4x2 model is correct.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Thanks for the additional information, dzayia. The dealer was correct, the lease money factor for this car is currently .00210, but its residual value for 3 years with 15,000 miles per is actually only 60%. Using the car's actual MSRP of $39,495 and your price of $38,460 I come up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment of $541 per month. This is about $10 per month less than the my previous calculation using the incorrect MSRP.

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gwarren · June 2001

Car_Man,
Thanks again for the info, so it sounds as if the deal I have been offered is quite fair and probably close to as low as they will go right now. But it doesn't sound like I have anything to lose by waiting until my current lease is up in July. I know that there are no guarantees, on the Residual or incentives, but I am sure that they will still have a lot of those vehicles on hand. So unless I am offered some additional incentive I might as well wait it out.

If you get any other info regarding the RX300 lease, I would appreciate your getting me the info ASAP

Again thanks
Gary

burrsr · June 2001

Car_man,

That's just it! I figured the quoted terms were right on the money, but the $1,300 discrepancy is an oddity! No manufacturer that I know advertises any discounts from MSRP. Cash incentives (factory-to-dealer, factory-to-consumer, etc.), yes; negotiating discounts, NO! The $1,300 would have to be further negotiated from MSRP. The best I was able to do was $500 (i.e., $500 over invoice). That negotiation still falls $800 short of the nationally advertised promotion! Based on that, I said no, until a dealership is willing to offer invoice (they'll still make $2,000!). Anyway, thanks for the help, as always.

dianeb773 · June 2001

Thanks for the input Carman. My actual price is $37,575 not $37,095. How much does that change the payment? I tried another dealer today and they just about soured me on any deal. For a $38,550 MSRP car, 39 mo/12K they quoted $572.00 which included Illinois tax but not the Chicago tax. I can't believe how the numbers change from dealer to dealer. It's so hard to know if you're getting a good deal. I would appreciate any info on the change in payment with the new above number.

akrick · June 2001

Thanks Car-man for sharing your knowledge. I may not complete the deal before July 2 (vacation starts July 10) so when will you have lease info for July? I may also consider 36 mos./10,000 miles, so do you have mf and residual for 2001.5 Passat GLS 1.8t manual for that as well?

kbehnke · June 2001

Car_man,

I requested the money factor and residuals for leasing a Ford F150 SuperCrew last week, but didn't hear anything back from you yet. Just wondering if you're still tracking those numbers down. If possible I'd like the numbers for both 24 and 36 month, 15k/yr mileage. Also, are the numbers different for the Supercab vs. the Supercrew?

Thanks a bunch!

dzayia · June 2001

car man:

just a quick note to say thanks for the assistance!!!!

shaker58 · June 2001

can you please post the mf and res on a 2001 ml320 looking for 3 yrs and 12000 miles no money down

michaellno · June 2001

I've got more of a philosophical question for you.

Next year the lease on our '99 VW New Beetle will be up. We like the vehicle and will probably buy it outright for our son to drive (he turns 16 next summer). The question:

We'll need a 3rd car for me to use as a commuter. We've decided to get a 4 door sedan, and would like to pay around $300/mo for a 3yr/45K lease. Without going to every brand of dealer in town, how can we determine what would fit in our budget? Is there some sort of reverse spreadsheet utility available that we could plug our monthly payment into, identify the type of vehicle we want (sedan) and have it spit out a list of brands and models that have cap costs, residual values and money factors that are equal to or less than the payment?

I haven't narrowed down the list of vehicles at all, but anything from a Toyota Echo to a Hyundai Sonata to a Ford Taurus would probably fit the budget.

gwarren · June 2001

Car_Man,
HELP!!!!
Sorry to be such a pest, but I am getting pressed buy the sales manager at the Lexus dealer do complete the deal by Saturday. He "claims" that on July 1 the residual will go down 2% adding about $20 to the monthly payment. I suggested that they may also lower the cost of money by 1% and that would more than make up the difference. (1% less in interest is about $35.00 monthly based on the Cap-cost plus Residual).

He also said they may not be willing to give the car away the beginning of the month as they are doing now just to clear inventory.

The Cap Cost quoted is truly $1000 under invoice (unless he tries to change it last minute).
Don't worry, I will not let that happen.

So am I getting the typical snow job (in Florida), or can I miss a deal that's too good to be true.

Need an informed answer ASAP from anyone that may be in tune with Lexus.

Gary

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Diane, if you decide to lease a 2001 Audi A6 2.8L quattro with an MSRP of $38,550 and with a capitalized cost of $37,575 for 39 months and with 12,000 miles per year through their captive finance company your approximate zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be $561.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Sorry for the delay, kbehnke. Somehow your earlier post must have slipped through the cracks. I would be happy to help you out now though. If you choose to lease a 2001 Ford F-150 SuperCrew through Ford Motor Credit right now for 24 or 36 months you would have to use lease rates of I believe 4.5% and 6.5% respectively. These are equivalent to lease money factors of about .00188 and .00271. Also, the 2 and 3 year 15,000 miles per residual values for this truck are presently 57% and 49% for the 2001 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat / XLT 2WD and 56% and 49% for the 2001 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat / XLT 4WD. Yes, the residual values for SuperCab models are different from those for the SuperCrew. If you would like the SuperCab residual values, I am going to need you to be as specific about the truck that you want as possible because they vary quite a bit from trim level to trim level. The lease rates for all F-Series Light Duty trucks should be the same though.

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jodette · June 2001

i have been quoted $33,100 for a bmw 325i w/ premiun package, cold weather, auto and cd. if i were to lease it now, how much would my payments be approximately putting only the taxes upfront. i live in NY.

thanks. also, should i wait until after july 2 to see if the lease terms get better?

aldehyde · June 2001

Car_man, can you tell me the current money factors and residuals for 2001 Ford Escape and Mazda Tributes? Thanks in advance.

-EC

im_brentwood · June 2001

What you heard is true about the residuals.

Also, I don't see the rates changing for next month (Helps that the GSM at Lexus of Orlando is a very close friend).

My guess is you're going to JM, (they're more concerned with being #1 in national sales volume than anything else really). They're trying to make their "month". I've seen them do worse just to make their internal sales quotas.

Bill

kbehnke · June 2001

Car_man,

Thanks for the F150 info. You certainly provide a wealth of information here.

Can you either display the lease payment calculations again, or provide the link to it? I know it was posted a while ago, but rather than search through the message board I thought it might be quicker to have you provide.

Thanks again!

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Shaker58, the last time that I saw the Mercedes-Benz Credit Corporation lease program their lease money factor and residual value for a 2001 ML320 leased for 3 years and with 12,000 miles per were .00354 and 65% respectively. Although MBCC does not usually set concrete end dates for their lease programs, I suspect that they will issue their dealers new money factors and residuals at the beginning of the next quarter.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Michaell, I enjoy philosophical questions. Although it would be an amazing tool, I am sorry to say that no spreadsheets like the one that you described exist. Even if they did, they would likely be a tool that was employed by some automaker or consulting firm to analyze incentives programs and not available to the general public. Manufacturers advertised lease price points are usually the place that I look when trying to narrow down a list of vehicles to fit within an individual's budget. However, even this can be misleading, because the vast majority of advertised leases require money down and are for 12,000 or even 10,000 miles per year.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Gary, given the fact that July is the beginning of a new quarter, the salesperson who you spoke with is correct, the residual values for most Lexus vehicles probably will drop a point or two. However, I don't believe that this will happen on July 1st as he had claimed. The current Lexus Financial Services lease program was originally scheduled to run through July 5th. Although this end date is subject to revision, I have not heard that they will cut the program short. Many salespeople will do their best to get shoppers to buy or lease a new vehicle as quickly as possible. By doing so, they prevent consumers from changing their minds and assure themselves of a sale. This may be what is happening here. There certainly is no guarantee that Lexus will lower its lease money factors when the new quarter begins. So the salesperson may be correct when they said that this vehicle's payment will go up. It is difficult to say what Lexus will do for certain. If you are able to lease this truck for $1,000 under invoice right now I personally don't see any reason to wait. I would probably just bite the bullet and lease the truck now if I was in your shoes.

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gwarren · June 2001

Car_Man,
Thanks for the info, and I appreciate your help. Will let you know the outcome. By the way it looks as though you answered my question at
"5:23 AM", a little early isn't it?
Gary

fgrethel · June 2001

Car_Man: I am now considering the BMW X5 as my hybrid SUV/car along with the Lexus RX 300. The Lexus is selling at or slightly below invoice in some parts of the country, but the BMW is still well above invoice. What are the current money factors and residuals that BMW Finance is offering for a 3 year 12K per year deal? By the way, I have down loaded a trial sub to a software package for my Palm Pilot that allows me to do my lease calculations at the dealer! It is really helpful to assist someone to verify the dealer's numbers. It does not include the calculation of the sales tax.....

dianeb773 · June 2001

Carman,

Just wanted to say thanks for all of your help and information. I'm finalizing my deal tomorrow. 12K, Leather, Sunroof, Cold Weather (Non-Celebration pkg)

MSRP $40,100
Invoice 35,916
FInal cost $1400 over at $37,316
56% Residual of $22,456
MF .00103%
NO down payment/acquisition/security dep.
All taxes in payment 8.5% Ill./6% Chicago Lease tax
First payment due at signing
$539.00 per month

hooops · June 2001

Car_Man,

Does VW charge an acquisition fee when leasing through
VW credit ? If there is a charge, do you know the amout
and if it includes Gap coverage ?

Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

EC, Ford just extended their incentives programs through July 9th. If you plan on leasing the Escape after that date, the rates and residual values will likely be different from what they are today. Currently the 24 and 36 month lease rates for the Ford Escape are 8.0% and 10.0% respectively. In certain parts of the country, these rates are enhanced to 6.0% and 8.5% respectively. The corresponding residual values for a 2001 Escape XLS 4WD leased through Ford Motor Credit should be 58% and 50% with 15,000 miles per year. The lease money factors for a 2001 Mazda Tribute 4WD leased through Mazda's captive finance company prior to July 9th should be .00374 and .00369 for 24 and 36 months respectively. The corresponding residual values should be 59% and 51% for a 2001 Trubute DX 4WD leased with 15,000 miles per year. The lease program for other trim levels of these trucks will be slightly different, so let me know if you plan on getting a different variant.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Kbehnke, you know for some reason I have not been able to find the post that I made about how to calculate monthly lease payments since we transferred all of the old posts over to our new software. I think that it may have been wiped out in the move. I tell you what, I will create an entirely new discussion that contains a post on how to calculate monthly lease payments. That will take a little more time than I have right now, but I will get to work on it tonight. Look for it on the Finance, Warranty, & Insurance Message Board tomorrow morning. See you then...

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

You're welcome, Gary. Please let me know how everything turns out. Of course I answered your question at 5 AM. No amount of dedication is too much

. Seriously though, that's only 8:30 AM here on the east coast so even though it is earlier than I would like to be out of bed it isn't as bad as it sounds. Talk to you soon.

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gwarren · June 2001

Car_Man
OK OK I am on the East coast as well. so we are in the same time zone. I guess it's Edmunds that time stamps these messages somewhere on the West Coast.
By the way I spoke with the Sales manager and he confirmed the deal including the Cap Cost being used. He claims that they are anxious to sell units in the month of June and that is why it must be done before Saturday, even if they loose money on the deal.

venanzik · June 2001

I would like to know if anyone has recently used this plan through vw. or knows more about it. Are there any disadvantages to be aware of? How are the payments figured out? I posted questions on this once before in other places but didnt seem to get any responses. i was planning on leasing or using the buyers option on a new passat..thanks for your time..

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Fgrethel, believe it or not, BMW actually has a little lease money factor support available on the 2001 X5 right now. If you lease one through BMW FS prior to July 2 you can get a lease money factor of .00300 and a 3 year 12K residual value of 63% on the 3.0 and 61% on the 4.4. Say, the Palm Pilot software sounds really neat. I would actually think about getting it if I actually has a Pilot

. Happy shopping!

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Congratulations on your new car, Diane. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Enjoy!

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2001

Hooops, yes Volkswagen Credit charges an acquisition fee of $490 on its leases. I am not sure if that includes gap insurance, but I think that it does. You need to check with the F&I Manager at the dealer that you are working with to find out for certain.

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