Lease Questions - Ask Here

mtnsun · June 2001

Carman

I am on the verge of closing my lease deal with a dealer and not Cars Direct (they couldn't find the car with the options) The deal is pretty good, i.e. price is 200 over invoice, mf. 1.8, resid 15K 56%. I have to close before 7/2 because it is a lease special, hence the 1.8 and 56%. The problem is the dealer told me that Chase requires on specials that the 595 acquisition fee be capitalized, in other words I cannot pay it up front and I have to be charged interest. Is this true? I cannot pay the acquistion fee up front?? I suppose I could just pay cap reduction in the same amount but then won't I be charged sales tax on the cap reduction. Let me know. Tx.

dianeb773 · June 2001

Hi Carman,

It's me again. I picked up my car last night and I love it. I have a question though. When I was signing the lease papers, I noticed that the negotiated price was different than the $1400 over invoice. The manager then tried to explain to me how the dealership can take advantage of a tax rebate regarding the Illinois sales tax that I paid. Since I had a trade-in they can do what he called a lease/lease deal and take all of my sales tax as profit. It lowered my payment by $3.00 a month and they got $3100.00 on the deal. Have you heard of this before? My paperwork says that I paid no sales tax. It was a little confusing to me. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

gwarren · June 2001

Car_Man

the cat and mouse game is now over I signed the lease agreement today and am picking up my new White RX300 tomorrow. Strange how even after I thought everything was agreed on the Dealer still tried to change things when I came in to sign. I finally had to pull out the e-mail he sent me with the money required down. Of course when I came in he had a vehicle with a different MSRP (different equipment) and the contract all ready for me. I drove the vehicle and it pulled to the right. I made him get me the vehicle as I wanted, and at the MSRP and price we agreed on. He only had 50 so equipped in stock, so not a problem to find. I got the deal as stated although of course on the agreement things were not as originally discussed???

Final deal with the MSRP at $37,666

1. Gross Cap cost $32,864
includes dealer fee ($598.00)
2. and Acquisition Fee $450.00
Total Cap Cost = $33,314
Cap Cost Reduction $924.07 (Cash paid)

Adjusted Cap Cost $32,389.93

Residual @59% = $22,222.94

Monthly payment including tax $450.00

Cash at Signing $1,500 includes first month, cap cost reduction, and taxes.

Well deal is finished tomorrow, I put down pay and sign the agreement. Does this sound fair it does to me. The only real question I had was the addition of the $598.00 dealer fee. I presume the $450.00 fee is for Lexus Financial services, and would only be waived for repeat customers.

kjohnson6 · July 2001

I currently lease a Dodge Ram and am considering trading it in on a Chevy Silverado. I may purchase the truck this time vs. leasing.

If I purchase this truck would I pay tax on the difference of the new truck and my trade in or because the truck is a lease and I really don't own it would I pay tax on the full amount of the purchase price?

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Mtnsun, I don't know if Chase requires its lessees to finance their acquisition fee on leases. I don't think that I have ever heard of a bank that would not allow its customers to pay its acquisition fee in advance. This sounds strange to me, but I suppose that it is possible.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Diane, I am not familiar with the tax laws in your particular state. However, I really don't have a big problem with what this dealer did with your lease as long as the payments came out the same, your lease-end purchase option price was not increased, you are leasing it for the same term, and have the same mileage allowance.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Gary, congratulations on your new truck. You are right Lexus Financial Services has a $450 acquisition fee on all of its leases. The $598 dealer fee probably covers the registration of your vehicle and other expenses. It is very common for dealers to charge their consumers some sort of fee like this on new vehicles, although $598 does sound a little on the high side to me.

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gemax · July 2001

I just leased a new Grand Prix and was wondering about rebates for leasing compared to buying.GMAC is offering a $1000.00 rebate on GP.Is that just for buyers?They also have a bonus cash of $500 and a loyalty rebate of $500 for leasing another car.The dealer gave me only $1500 total.Is this right? Whats with the GMAC administrative fee?
thx

kbehnke · July 2001

Car_man,

When calculating month lease payments, do I include all of the upfront fees(e.g. acq fees, destination charges, etc) in the cap cost or are those typically paid for with the down payment? I'm assuming if it's a '$0 down payment' lease those charges would be included the cap cost.

Thanks once again for your help!

mtnsun · July 2001

Carman,

In case I do not close this deal today, will the lease special from Sub Motor Credit aka Chase of mf 1.8 36 mos, 56% resid. for 15K be continued through the end of July, or is the special better or worse. What about the 300 unrestricted incentive, will that be continued, better or worse? Of note the Sub website says generally specials through August 31, but what specials is the question??

Let me know. Many, many, thanks.

blaketag · July 2001

Hi Car Man,

I was wondering if you knew what BMWFS is offering for a lease promotion on the 330i in July? They were offering .0021 MF and 60% residual (3 yr/15K) in June. I'm curious if they've extended this promotion or if they have new rates in July. I take delivery on a 330i towards the end of July. I was approved through BMWFS in June and was told I'd be elgible for the June rates, even though I take delivery in July. Just curious what their current program is, however. Thanks for your help!

Regards,

Tom

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Kbehnke, a vehicle's destination charge is usually included as part of its capitalized cost. I suppose that you could pay it up front if you really wanted to, but that would be just the same as making a small down payment on the car that you are leasing. Most banks give consumers the choice of whether or not they want to pay the acquisition fee for the vehicle that they are leasing in advance or roll it into their car or truck's cap cost. The term "zero down" refers to the down payment that you are making on the vehicle that you plan to lease and is a little different from a "sign-and-drive" lease that does not have any money at all due at lease signing. Even if you roll the bank fee into your capitalized cost, you will probably still have to pay a security deposit, the first month's payment, and perhaps tax or title on your car before you drive it off.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Gemax, the Consumer Cash that is available on the 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix will vary from $1,000 to $2,250 depending upon the trim level that you are getting and the part of the country that you purchase it in. This cash may not be used in conjunction with GMAC's special lease program. However, GM is offering $500 Lease Cash in most areas on this car that may be used in conjunction with GMAC's subvented lease rates. If the dealership that you leased through provided you with $1,500 cash from GM I believe that they were being straightforward with you.

All banks charge their lessees an acquisition fee. General Motors Acceptance Corp. is no exception. I believe that they charge all of its customers a lease acquisition fee of $400. Unfortunately, there really isn't any around paying this charge, but in many instances it may be rolled into your car or truck's capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Mtnsun, Subaru's official lease program was only scheduled to run through today and I have not seen their July program yet. If I had to guess, I would say that it will probably be very close to what June's program was like, but as I have said in the past it is very difficult to predict what a manufacturer will do with its future incentives programs with 100% accuracy. Please feel free to check back with me next week and I should have a much better idea of what they are doing with their July incentives for this car. Talk to you then.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Tom, funny you should ask. Even though BMW's June lease program was scheduled to run through the end of the day, they leaked information on July's program to their dealers a little early. According to what I have heard, BMW continued the June lease money factors on all of its models, except for on the Z3 which rose slightly. As a result, the factors for the 2001 330i should be the same as the ones that you mentioned in your post. However, they did issue new residual values for July and August. Although I don't know the specifics of the new resids yet, I can tell you that some terms for some models stayed the same and others fell by about 1%.

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gemax · July 2001

Car Man,My dealer gave me a $525.00 acquisition fee on the Grand Prix GTP.Seeems a little high

hooops · July 2001

Hi Car_Man,

I thought I had gotten a pretty good deal on leasing a Jetta GL (5spd) for 36mo/15k mi.
The price came out to 247 (tax included) a month (just around invoice). I'll be putting $1000 towards the bank fee (490), 1st months payment (247), lic&reg&docs (around 215) and the
48 left over must be going to the dealer.

I didn't get a VIN # from the dealer because they didn't have any in stock, but said they
were going to do a locate and possibly do a dealer swap. They left my wife and I with
the impression that they would get a brand new car from a dealer near by or have it
transported via a trailer. I was notified that they were going to pick it up, drive it back and provide me with a Jetta that would have *250* or so miles on it. The dealership where they
were going to get it from was less than 100 miles away. I told them I thought anything
over 75 miles was considered used. Is there something that states when a car has over a certain number of miles its considered used or a demo ? Any ideas on how I should
proceed ? I don't like the idea of leasing what I thought would be *new* car with 1-2-3
hundred miles on it. I have the dealership agreement that states the monthly payment, lease term, initial payment, etc.

Do I tell them that if they want me to take this car that I want a reduced price or some
kind of compensation ?

If I tell them that I will only accept a new car with low mileage on it and they tell me
that can not locate one - what should I do ? Tell them to provide me with an alternative
on their lot ?

Thanks.

dspangenberg · July 2001

I am in the market for a new Pathfinder and will probably end up leasing. I always have a tough time deciding whether to buy now near the end of the current model year and take advantage of the good prices and incentives, or buy a 2002 right at the beginning of the new model year. I have always thought that the new model year (2002) was a better deal due to higher residuals. But I realize that the incentives will not be there.

Any comments? It seems that in the past of a few other vehicles, the payments enede up about the same, so I reason that the new 2002 model year would be a better choice.

Also does anyone know what the residual and money factor is on a 2001 Pathfinder SE or LE 4WD? Any guess on whether the July incentives will be better or worse?

Thanks for any/all comments.

Dan

jscatena · July 2001

Here's the deal I got in Michigan on the Icelandic Pearl GLE that I picked up today:

2001 GLE, every available option package (Z Edition, Meridian Package, sunroof, etc., ALL options) plus mats, in-cabin microfilter and sunroof wind deflector. Zero down, zero at delivery, 24 months, 15,000 miles per year, $548 per month.

jpscatena@t-one.net

tgif888 · July 2001

It really depends on your personal preference. Did the Pathfinder had a new re-design or new engine? If the Pathfinder is going to have a new engine then you might want to wait. For example, the Maxima is going to have a brand new engine and a little face lift. And remember for all the brand new model, it is going to have a little problems here and there. It happens to all vehicles.

Since if you are lean toward leasing, the cap cost of the year end model and the new model will make quite a difference.

Also the timing of your vehicle need will also make a difference. If you are in a hurry to get into a new vehicle, then you don't have much choice but taking whatever the dealer had in the inventory. But, if you are not in a hurry, you can wait the latest model to arrived and go lease it after couple months of the introduction. The price sure will drops.

kbehnke · July 2001

Hi again Car_man!

I was looking at the Altima lease deal that Nissan is advertising on their web site. It's a 3 yr/36k lease for a Altima GXE Ltd Edition($18515 MSRP + 540 dest). What didn't make sense to me was the residual amount. The lease-end buyout was only $8574.75, which is about 46.3% of the $18515 MSRP. That seems like an extremely low residual to me compared to most that are in the mid-to-upper 50's. What are your thoughts?

November · July 2001

Car Man--

A few weeks ago I asked you for VW info and you gave me some figures. I have a written offer on a lease now, and their numbers are a little different than yours, so I'd like your opinion. For a Passat 2001.5 Automatic 1.8T GLS (no other options):

MSRP: $23,375
Negotiated Price: $21,581
Residual: .57
Money Factor: 00275
12k per year--39 Months
Start Up Cost-- $1056.64 (includes first month's payment, plus fees, no security)
Payment: $314 plus tax per month

I know the money factor is higher than what you gave me for dates prior to July 2 and it was quoted today, July 3.

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Gemax, traditionally GMAC has had a $400 acquisition fee. However, many banks have been raising their lease acquisition fees lately. Furthermore, some acquisition fees are actually higher at worse credit levels. American Honda Finance Corp. recently raised their fee from $450 to $550, so a fee of $525 is right in line with what many other captive finance companies are charging their lessees.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Hooops, the payment that you were quoted on the Jetta that you are interested in is very reasonable. An untitled car with 250 miles on it is definitely not considered used. Even demo cars are technically still new vehicles and they can have thousands of miles on them. I generally prefer my new cars to have as little mileage as possible on them, but it certainly is not unusual for a brand new vehicle to have a couple of hundred miles on the odometer. In my opinion, dealers rarely provide adequate discounts on demo vehicles. They will probably will not be willing to give you much of a discount if any on this particular car. Let's say that they do agree to provide you with a discount of say $.15 per mile. That only amounts to a $37.50 reduction in your car's price which is hardly worth the trouble of putting up a fuss. If you aren't comfortable with a car that has 250 miles on it, you may want to see if they would be able to find you a similar one with fewer miles on it from a closer dealership or perhaps something similar out of their own stock.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Kbehnke, as hard as it may be to believe, last month Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation's 3 year 12,000 miles per residual value for a 2001 Altima GXE was only 45%. This is a fairly low residual, but not out of the ordinary by any means. Most popular vehicles that hold their value well do have 3 year 12k residuals in the 50's, such as the 2001 Honda Accord. Heck, the new Mercedes-Benz C-Class still has a 36 mo. 12k resid of 69%! However, many many other cars have residual values in the 40%'s or even 30%'s for the same parameters, like the Chevrolet Malibu (43% supported / 37% unsupported) and the Mitsubishi Mirage Sedan (41%). Part of the reason why the current Altima's residual values are so low is that a completely redesigned and supposedly much improved version of this car is due to arrive in Nissan showrooms in the not so distant future. This may be depressing the current Altima's resale value.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

November, Volkswagen did introduce a new lease program on July 3rd. However, the new VW Credit 39 month lease money factor for the 2001 Passat GLS 1.8T is still lower than the .00275 that you were quoted by the dealer that you are working with. The current supported factor for this car for the term that you are interested in is only .00235. The residual value that they quoted you is right on the money. It looks to me as though the dealership that you are trying to lease this car through is marking up your money factor slightly in an effort to bake additional profit into your deal. When I calculate what your monthly payments on this car should be without any money down and without tax using VW Credit's actual base lease program I come up with a monthly payment of around $294.

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hooops · July 2001

Hi Car_Man,

After thinking about it some more I came to the same conclusion earlier
today and told the dealer that I would take it. I plan on picking it up
tomorrow or Friday. I do a feel a lot better about it after hearing what
you had to say.

Thanks for all your help during this process.
I

dan715 · July 2001

I was thinking about buying the new acura rsx type-s, but after seeing the payments I would have to make, I think I might lease and buy at the end. To buy an RSX it will cost me approx. $438.75/mo for 60 months with $3,000 down. If I lease, it will cost me approx. 272.00/mo for 36 months w/ 12,000 mi/yr and $3,000 down. If I lease with the intentions to buy at the end then I wouldn't have to worry about the miles that are on the car and if there are any dings/dents on it. I would have low payments for 3 years and then at the end of 3 years, I will be able to afford the payments for whatever the balance is. I plan on keeping this car for a long time so it doesnt bother me if it takes me a while to pay off. Do you think this is a good idea to lease for low payments and then buy, or just get a different, cheaper car?

Thanks,
Dan

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Hooops, I am glad that I was able to help you out. Enjoy your new car!

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hooops · July 2001

Hi Car_Man,

The saga continues. Yesterday morning the dealer told me that they
would be picking up the car from another dealership and driving it back
and it would be available to me today or tomorrow with approx 250 miles
on it. I got a call this morning from the dealer telling me that the dealer
that was holding the car decided to sell it. The next question:

Is the dealer obligated to find me a comprable car under the same terms ?

I have a copy of the sales (lease) agreement from the Dealership with my
signature and the signature of a manager from the dealership. I got a
very reasonble deal - 36month/15k for 5 spd Jetta - 247 month incl tax.
1000 down to cover bank fee, 1st payment and dmv fees and prep.

If he tells me that there are no 5spds, is he obligated to give me something
at the same price ?

What are my options ?

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Sorry to hear about your car, hooops. You should try to work with the dealership that quoted you the deal that you want to try to find another unit. They probably will be willing to work with you, but if they refuse to honor the deal that you have already been quoted you may have a difficult time holding them to it. They know that it would be way more trouble than it is worth for you to take them to court over this incident. Of course, you are always free to comparison shop for a similar car at a couple of other dealers to see if they would be willing to match or beat what you had previously been offered.

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lucasbl · July 2001

Hi Car_Man,

Thanks for your answer a few weeks ago, but I still haven't pulled the trigger on a deal for various reasons.

Do you have any information on what kind of lease deal AoA is offering now in July? I'd really like to know what the current money factor and residual are on the 2001 allroad. In June they were offering a 39 mo. lease/10,000 mi for $499 on a nicely-equipped car, and no sec. dep. or acq. fee required, so I'm hoping something similar is being offered now. Any info is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

markhampton · July 2001

The June BMW lease deals seemed pretty good -- a 740i for $799/mo with ~$3k cap reduction. What's your take on this? Was it really as good as it seemed? Anyone know if BMW is planning to extend the deal through July?

How much wiggle room do dealers have on trade-ins? Right now I have a 2000 Deville on which I owe ~$30k. I don't want to take too much of a beating on it.

Lastly, is there an accurate web page which lists subsidized leases? I seem to recall that Edmunds used to do this, but I can no longer find it.

cabernet · July 2001

Hi Car_Man,

Do you know what lease terms can be expected right now for a 2001 Subaru Outback Limited? I'm interested in 12000 miles per year and 24 month or 36 months. Would the residual and money factor differ for an Outback LLBean or Outback VDC?

Thanks!

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Hi again lucasbl. Audi certainly makes it tough to keep track of their lease programs. They issue new incentives every single month. If you decide to lease a 2001 Audi allroad through Audi's captive finance company for 39 months and with 10,000 miles per year in July you would have to use a lease money factor of .00139 and a residual value of 57%. This residual is only 1% lower than the one that they had on this car last month and they lowered the money factor a little, so I think that you should probably be able to lease this vehicle for the same payment that they were advertising on it in June.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Mark, BMW had quite a bit of support on the 7-Series in June. Their 7-Series lease money factors were equivalent to just over 6% and they had $7,500 Dealer Cash on it. I haven't seen BMW's July advertised leases yet, but I believe that it should be possible to arrive at the same payment on this car in July.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Cabernet, Subaru's last lease program just expired a day or two ago and I haven't heard anything about their July lease program yet. If you would like, please feel free to check back with me mid next week and I would be happy to let you know if I have heard anything about the lease program for the vehicle that you are interested in. Talk to you then.

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clpurnell · July 2001

Car man could you post any incentives on the following cars.

2001.5 Passat (v6)
Honda Accord EXv6
Nissan Maxima SE, GLE
Toyota Avalon
Pontiac Bonneville

If you have any suggestions on which car to go for that would be appreciated also.

im_brentwood · July 2001

Thought I'd throw these out there...

If you're looking at an Infiniti, Make sure your dealer is working with Chase.

They tend to beat Infiniti Financial Svcs quite easily on I30s and G20s.

Bill

bmoore6 · July 2001

Do you have any information as to what can be written off as business expense when you lease a vehicle/

shaker58 · July 2001

my friend is looking to lease one for 3/36
xlt 6 cylinder with rear seat leather and moonroof
sticker is 33655 and dealer price is 31300
what is mf and res on this car or is you can give me est payment would be great no $ down

thanks again

s852 · July 2001

Is there a current special lease incentive on the ES300?

What should the payments and drive off be on a 2001 ES300 with Value Package and heated seats or Nakamichi Package and heated seats for 3 years and 36K or 45K miles with zero down in Northern California and when does the latest deal expire?
The car is available to purchase for about invoice in my area, but I understand that the Lexus Finance lease deals are based on some other pre-set price.
Also, is there a better lease deal available on some other competitive car in this near-luxury class? I'm somewhat interested in most of the competing cars other than the Catera and Millenia.
I noticed an earlier post indicating a loaded $40K Audi A6 Quattro should be available with $0 down and 39 months/32.5K miles for less than $500 per month.

gwarren · July 2001

Car_Man
Thanks again for your past help. I am trying (without getteing too involved) to guide an acquaintance of mine who is trying to duplicate my deal. Seems to be getting different info and not sure what is and what is not.
Bottom Line what is the current Residual on the RX300 without Navigator on a 39 month lease with 12,000 miles if going through Lexus Financial. And what date did or will the residual drop form 59% to ?
Dealer says it dropped to 55%? (I wonder if he is using Lexus Financial)
I assume the Money Factor did not change and is still .00300
Thanks GW

CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Clpurnell, I just posted a detailed answer to your identical question over in the "Incentives and Rebates" discussion in this forum. Please check there for my response. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Hi again shaker58. Let me begin by asking if your friend is a current Ford owner or lessee. If so, they are eligible for hundreds or even thousands of dollars in Loyalty Cash incentives that Ford currently has available on the 2002 Explorer. I couldn't believe my own eyes when I saw how much they were offering their current customers on this truck. I guess that they want to make sure that they don't lose any of their current customers because of all of the negative publicity that they have been getting lately. OK, now onto the lease program for this vehicle. Beginning July 9th (I am looking into my crystal ball right now) in certain areas, Ford Motor Credit will have a 3 year, 36,000 miles per lease rate of 1.5% and a residual value of 49% on the 2002 Ford Explorer XLT V6 4WD models. In addition, there will be a new $500 Consumer Lease Cash incentive on this truck.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 2001

Hello s852. The Lexus Financial Services lease program was scheduled to expire on July 5th and I have not seen their new one yet. Please feel free to check back with me late this week and I should have the information that you are looking for. Talk to you then.

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im_brentwood · July 2001

Lexus dropped the base residual to 55% on the new program. Its' 57% at 12K/miles/year.

Bill

calderfer · July 2001

When negotiating a lease do I have to use the MSRP on the sticker of the car (Chevy Tahoe) or can I use the TMV price of the car? Also, in regards to the money factor, is that the APR divided by 24? If there is a special APR on a lease, let's say 1.9% would I divide that by 24 to get the "Money Factor"? Thanks for your help.

im_brentwood · July 2001

If you're calculating the lease you use the MSRP (Total MSRP if you're going with GMAC) to calculate the residual. MSRPs are used to calculate the residual as that number is a constant while cap costs are not. Someone out there is probably gonna get one for $500 under invoice less any and all incentives and rebates, and some fool is gonna buy one for $500 over sticker. But both of those vehicles, everything else being equal (Miles, color, condition, equipment, location) are going to be worth the exact same $$ wholesale at lease end.

The TMV is generally what you want to buy the vehicle for, This si what you want to negotiate the cap cost down to. Bear in mind there also may be a bank fee which is generally added to the cap cost, so ask if the cap cost includes this or if its' upfront.

And, yes, you do divide an APR by 2400 to get a money factor.

So, say this Tahoe stickers.. at..say.. $33,000, the residual is 55% over 24 months and the TMV is $29,500 and the APR is 1.9% (/2400=Money Factor of roughly .00079)

Residual: $33,000 (MSRP) X .55 = $18,150

Cap Cost: $29,500

Depreciation: $29,500 - 18,150 / 24 (term) = 472.92

Interest: $29,500 + $18,150 X .00079 = 37.64 (Not too shabby!)

Total Base Payment = 510.56 + Tax assuming Bank Fee up-front only.

Frankly at 1.9/.00079 I wouldnt put a dime down except for security and first payment and doc fees/plates. I'd finance the Bank fee as well.

Hope this helps!

Bill

kbehnke · July 2001

Car_man,

Can you give me the money factor and residual values for a '01 Nissan Sentra GXE - 36 or 39 months(whichever has the better mf), and 15k/yr?

Also, is it typical that residual values go down as the model year comes to an end? If that's the case, is it usually better to wait until the 02's come out in the fall when the residuals go back up(and decreasing the monthly payment)?

Thank you.

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