Sometimes I seem to have trouble posting my messages, so I guess that last one didn't have a chance to finish. What I was saying was: to fmgarcia: thanks for the info. about Qsubaru. I'll give Darlene a call. And to vince 14: thanks for the info. about the woodgrain kit. That's what I'm hoping to order from Qsubaru! What was the installation like?
I'll finish writing the rest of the message later, since unfortunately it was a long one that I don't feel like retyping now. Had to do with my lust for a PT Cruiser, even though I would probably still choose my OO OB over the Cruiser, if I was buying a car now. And also had to do with a cracked windshield that I just got -- bummer. I'll fill you all in later... Nice to "see" you all again!
One of the items that I have ordered from Darlene was the Woodgrain Door Trim. Cost was $66.30 for the four pieces (again, shipping already included). Installation instructions were included and it took me about 20 minutes to do the job.
Randy, a turbo Legacy for a NA Forester? U MUST B NUTS! DC isn't exactly the snow belt so I'm sorry I can't comment on the salt issue directly, but the 91 Legacy we recently sold had no rust. Try a search in the alt.autos.subaru Usenet group on www.remarq.com . Also, you might check the April 00 issue of Consumer Reports with the frequency of repair records (sorry it's not handy).
Ash, I'm very sorry to hear about your check engine light woes. As MY00 is a redesign, I expect a few glitches with the release 1.0 hardware (as with computer hardware and especially Microsoft 1.0 software). Your problem is odd because AFAIK the Phase II engine has been out for two years and you'd hope problems have been ironed out. I actually expect more "people" problems (i.e., quality) resulting from the retooling of the Lafayette, IN production line from MY99, plus the typical start-up problems with suppliers. I too had an alignment problem (minor) that the dealer corrected. When I read that IIHS gave its highest safety rating to the MY00 Legacy, I think I made the right choice, release 1.0 issues aside. I know that doesn't make your experience any less frustrating. Please keep up updated.
Re: <157</A>> Subaru Impreza 2.5RS (fill).
157Does the Subaru Impreza 2.5RS perform as well as it looks, or does it fall short of that?Clubs
Oh boy, wrong question to ask on an enthusiast board Quick answer: YES! Colin can provide you with details. Also, search the posts on i Club. You might consider waiting a bit for the turbochared Impreza WRX if you want more power.
Although I am an avid Soob devotee, I have to rain a little bit on the Rs's parade. I can't seem to lay my hands on exact numbers at the moment, but no, the RS is more bark than bite....for now.
0-60 is in the 8 sec ballpark, topping out in the 120's. Not quite competitive with cars in its price range, like the Integra R and VW GTI 1.8T, although AWD helps in the nasty stuff and is a mitigating factor. Handles quite well though, especially with upgraded rubber. The chassis is well-regarded world wide as a neutral, tossable car that is capable of far more power than it is endowed with in the US market. The car carries the same body bits as the Euro/Japan Impreza Turbo, but here in the US those airdams, scoops and wings are not functional. The suspension has also been softened, with more understeer dialed in, to account for Americans' fundamental lack of skill and driver training. The turbo is world renowned as one of the best sporting bargains in automobilia Luckily, that turbo is coming. We here at Subaru Crew done heard tell it should arrive sometime this year as a 2001 model. I probably won't be able to afford one at $27K or so. That is the Impreza with intentions that live up to the RS's pretentions. A sports car to be taken seriously. In the mean time, there are a bevy of companies out there who can help bring an RS up to world standards. Check out www.spdusa.com to start.
No true!!! the scoops, louvres and the massive air dam does serve some function! It get's attention to otherwise a mundane Clark Kent car. =P Also you can put some LED lights on the scoop and place two small speakers in each louvres and have them play "are you sure Michael?". Make sure the LEDs run left to right and it has to be red! There are 3 aftermarket turbo availiable for the imprezas - JC Sports, Minnam and ASR. Rimmer makes a supercharger for them the Impreza too. Up here in Toronto, there are 2 shops that does WRX conversion - Can Jam and Japanese Automotive. In a stop light race, it can easily beat out alot of cars. Why? Cus it has enuf torque and AWD to jump off the line ahead of any inferior 2WD "I wannabe a sports car too" econoboxes. Don't jus tlook at the 0-60 or 1/4 mile. Don't go straight. Go slideways!
I agree! The bone-stock 2.5RS is more show than go, but it's an excellent base to build upon (rally bred chassis and AWD is a good start). "fill" should wait 'til early next year if you wish to get a stock Turbo.
Meanwhile, if 0-60 and top speed are your priority, you're probably in the wrong place. Subaru's strengths are traction, steering, handling, and braking, and ultimately the balance these provide. In foul weather there ain't an Integra in the world that could keep up.
Speaking of FWD, I drove back from the airport the other day and helped rescue a helpless Pontiac Gran Prix driver (so much for wider is better). She had taken an exit ramp too hot and understeered right off the road. Luckily, she slammed into a barrier and avoided driving sideways onto the highway, and noone was hurt. Soobs handle in a more neutral manner, and would probably not have slipped in the same soggy conditions in the first place. I guess AWD is more better than wider is! )
I wouldn't worry too much about rust on a '98 Forester. Inspect the wheel wells and door jambs to make sure they are clean. The sheet metal in those areas is double-galvanized.
ash - sorry to hear about the troubles. Keep us posted on the fix?
Seems like we all have dogs. I have two, but they're lap dogs. They have harnesses and don't object to wearing them on trips. They've been on several road trips with us, too.
BTW, my dad was in town just visiting, and loved a 2001 Forester he saw in the mall. He swore it was bigger than mine (whatever), so we went to test drive one. He actually fell in love with a loaded Outback Limited, and decided to buy one when he moves here in July.
We test drove one, and I found it solid and quiet. Loved the 2nd sunroof, since I was in back. He and my step mother have two teenagers, and everyone loved it, and pressured him to buy it then and there (the sales staff at Fitzgerald are friendly, and give an up-front price). He spoke with the salesman and they agreed he would come back in July to buy it (no pressure at all).
My step-mom drives slow so she didn't even get into the power (not interested in the H-6). She loved the power seats, and the side air bags and crash test scores pleased her as well. The plood (plastic wood) fooled her, and she felt the auto shifter looked like a Benz's.
I was surprised because they are avid FoMoCo fans. They've had Cougars, Sables, Explorers, Tauri, you name it. My cousin (my step-mother's niece) has the '99 Outback and she borrowed it and loved it, so they decided to give it a try.
The only con I saw was the rear seat is much harder to fold flat than my Forester's.
That would mean 3 Soobs in the family. Once they buy it, I'll try to get a family photo (98 Forester L, 99 Outback, 2000 Outback Limited).
Oh, price was $200 over invoice with free loaner car and service discounts. It's $100 under invoice without that stuff, but my dad wanted those things anyway.
Great story about the Gran Prix. You should get a set of flashing lights for your Forester since you help out so many people! Imagine what the new VDC system would have done for that driver, let alone AWD.
Wow, 3 Soobs in your family. There's something contagious about knowing someone with a Soob. Four of my friends now own Foresters!
Hi there I believe I just bought one of the cars that you are talking about ( 98 Forester S ) that came from Eastern Canada, I have a feeling that these came from a fleet or rental company getting rid of their cars. I paid 23 000 CDN for mine and have had absolutely no problems. Many of people shy away from these cars because they may have been abused but on the other hand they were probably kept fairly clean so the road salt shouldn't be a problem. they price you listed is pretty good from what I've seen out there, just test drive and carefully look it over, Good Luck
My shuddering '00 Outback which I had towed to Ottawa, has been diagnosed with a bad fuel injector on cylinder 1. Service says that they've never seen that problem before, and it was a good move that I didn't drive it, since I would have burned out the piston.
Seems like a fairly critical failure. Enough, that I have asked for a new Outback from my local Dealer, and they are going to get back to me on that.
I'll be honest with everyone here. I do love my Outback alot. After this episode I went out the last few days and again looked at alternatives (Accord Coupe V6, Passat GL$ Wagon/4 motion, Ford Focus, Audi A4), and I still think there's no vehicle that can match the value for the price. But I will feel much better when I have one that I can rely on.
The main reason for it's 0-60 time of 8s is that it cannot hit 60MPH in 2nd gear. (bounces off the rev limiter right around 53) All of it competitors can, so that mandatory 3rd gear shift costs you a few tenths to a half second.
Look in the modifications discussion to see what I've done to my 2.5RS. I'm quite happy with the car, but would readily welcome more power.
I've had the car to about 120 and it gets there fairly fast. Beyond that I had no desire, and truth be told I've had it beyond 85 only a handful of times in the year I've owned it.
Rumor has it about this time next year we'll see the 2.5RS as the base model Impreza (they will drop the L since it has no chance against the Civic, Protege, Focus, etc.) and the turbo version should be well under $30k. Check out www.new-impreza.com for the latest rumors on it, and ignore Glenn's opinions about price. He's a nutty Aussie.
KenS: I was able to slow down quickly (4 channel ABS), drive up the curb (ground clearance), and drive over the tall grass/mud (AWD) to reach her, but we used the cell phone to call a tow truck since I didn't have tow straps with me. Perhaps Subaru should offer these as an accessory, given how often they'd come in handy?
Colin: good point about the gearing. In the Forester I believe you also have to shift twice before hitting 60mph. That's why 1/4 mile times are more meaningful.
Agreed. The RS runs mid to high 15's at sea level assuming you launch it hard. Again not my cup of tea so I've never ran my RS. I am curious, but not overly so. I've drag raced plenty in my past so I really don't have that itch in the RS.
I haven't posted for a while as I have been falling out of love with my Sube (98 GT wagon - purcahsed used about 9 weeks ago). I have been having persistent problems with clutch judder (car shakes on low speed downshifts). I say 'problems' because the mechanics and the service manager at Subaru of Calgary don't think I have a problem. But, I have not been happy with the car from day one.
So today, the GT was taken back for the purchase price (even allowing for 5000kms of my driving) against a new silver 2000 Forester L. I only got 2-300 off MSRP on the Forester, but they threw in a replacement dog guard and hood guard, and gave me keyless and tinting at cost. The clincher was 3.8% Subaru of Canada finance with zero down (I'm getting a cheque for $22500 back). Picking up Wednesday/Thursday.
I now have peace of mind - will be more wary of a used buy next time. The GT was a fun (and cheapish) rental car, but I'm not sorry to see her go....
Discussion over the Impreza RS makes me wonder, do you get the WRX at all in America. It is considered the iconic sports car here and in the UK, following such greats as the Golf GTi (Mk I and Mk II) and the Lancia Delta Integrale (not sold in Australia as only made in Left Hand Drive). However, the WRX is considered far better as it is well mannered enough to drive day to day.
The down side is that every "wannabe" can afford a real high quality pose machine, comfortable in the knowledge that it is seriously desirable. The local villains think so too and the WRX is the getaway car of choice for Australian robbers. The local police forces recognize this fact and have trialled WRX as well. Much more popular than the big 4WD in the rain.
Incidentally, some Australian Commodore police pursuit cars are being exported to the USA for police work. Apparently smaller and definitely sharper than Crown Victorias. I gather there is an absence of large rear drive vehicles for police work. For big V6 and V8 cars, they are surprisingly pleasant cars. Too big for my tastes though.
Australian roads are (barring Freeways) not as smooth as USA equivalents and there are some fabulous roads for a good balanced car. I was up in the hills near here yesterday where the mud is thick and 4WD very helpful. Suddenly I remembered what fun a good drive can be.
Not yet, Graham. They say we are getting it early in 2001.
You are also right about the dearth of RWD v8 cars but I've not heard of the Holden imports. I don't keep tabs on the coppers though, if they suddenly start driving slow econoboxes that's fine with me.
As you can see from the previous posts, the WRX is on the way to the U.S....when and how much is the only question. It really would be, as you point out, a sea change in sports cars here.
Interesting to hear about the Commodore. the only choice for U.S. police departments currently is the Crown Vic. No wait, GM has just re-introduced the Impala in a pursuit package, but it is a 3.8l V6 front drive car, and I don't see how it is going to work any better than the ill-fated Taurus Pursuit. GM also offers their Tahoe SUV, but it is just silly. how they expect it to navigate the average East Coast urban alley is beyond me.
Our Forester arrived without any problems. It was great advice I got from this forum (sending out "bids" on line to various dealerships). The local dealership was very smug in dealing with us, and it was well worth it to travel the 6o miles to buy the vehicle. We "custom" ordered the car and it came in exactly as specified.(and in about 3 weeks time) We got a 2001 Silver(monotone) S model with the Premium package (love that giant sun roof!), the upgraded sound system(wonderful option!) , and a lot of little extras. I did not want the woodgrain or the fin on the back (personal preference), and I was surprised to see that the vehicle did not have those items (I kind of thought they were standard with the Premiom package). It was definitely the easist buying experience I ever had. I know I got a fair deal and I wasn't ripped off on my trade in. Love the car, too. What a great ride. It is such a quiet engine, I can't even tell it is running....
There are two stretches of freeway within a reasonable distance from my home that have some traits in common:
- relatively flat - relatively straight for at least a mile - excellent visibility - little or no traffic in the wee hours - no place for cops to hide in the bushes
I've always used those stretches for my "speed runs". My last car, a Peugeot 505 Turbo, eased itself up to 100mph pretty readily. The wind noise was a roar, but the car was quite stable. The engine wasn't straining to reach that speed but the car also didn't seem to really *want* to go any faster. My suspicion is that aerodynamic drag was the big culprit at work with that car.
My new car is a MY00 5 speed Subie GT sedan. Now that it's beyond the engine breakin period I've been delving into the higher RPMs, and so when we found ourselves traversing one of those road sections recently I figured it was time to inaugurate the Subie with a "speed run" of its own. In a word, whoosh! Quiet and strong right through 100mph and up to 110. The RPMs were up there but the engine was by no means tapped out; I feel certain it would have pulled another 10mph without blinking. But my passenger was beginning to make comments about how fast the passing lane markers were flying by, so we backed down to a mere 85. To be honest I was happy to bring the speed back down below 100mph, because the front of my car is a mite twitchy - I found myself calling on some yoga calming techniques so as not to make any sudden moves of the the wheel. It's been suggested to me that perhaps the front end is toed out a bit; that makes sense to my mechanic's mind and is on my list for the dealer to check out. If a realignment does the trick, one of these early mornings I'll be back out there shooting for a buck and a quarter. This car *wants* it.
The down side when you start seeing WRX in the USA will be the increase in the number of young fools showing off their very posy cars and scaring the daylights out of other road users. There is a useful Australian phrase for this; "Playing Silly Buggers" which unfortunately does not translate well. When one of our former Prime Ministers used this phrase at a UN meeting, describing the fooling around and delaying tactics of other participants, it was entertaining to hear the attempts at translation of the literal. You try getting sport and silly homosexuals into one sentence for a foreign language. It is hard enough into English (or American) English.
There was recently a very good review of the WRX in the UK magazine CAR. The UK market sees the WRX as the most fabulous thing to hit its shores since the Integrale and the WRX is user friendly, not breaking down each day as the Lancia did. The electrics even work. It shifts the Impreza from the vaguely acceptable to the superhero stakes.
I was thrown at the comparison with the Honda type R. Not really in the same league with the WRX. Mind you, I have no desire for one. I enjoyed a Toyota Corolla Twin Cam in the late 80's and a VW Golf GTi Mk II in the early 90's so have had my bit of fun. I want something saner these days.
Mind you, if the WRX was a Plain Wrapper with minimal aerodynamic aids and Plain Jane wheels, maybe I would be interested. The real joy of the Twin Cam and GTi was the apparently innocent appearance and hot rod performance when wanted. In England, they refer to innocent looking but hot cars as "Q-cars" as the prefix on the number plates shows which year the car was built (this practise has just changed). Cars built from parts and therefore not strictly of a single year, are given a Q prefix. Hot rods, often innocent looking, are often only identified by their Q number plate prefix.
I think I will stick with my Outback Limited. It makes me feel good
Sheaster: you da woman! Yours is pretty much a convertible. It opens so wide that is serves front and rear passengers on both sides.
WDB: where's that road again...?
When the WRX arrives, you'll be able to tell the posers from the enthusiast owners easily. Just look for huge yellow stripes and hundreds of irrelevant stickers on the front quarter panel. There'll likely be a lot of those in SoCal and Florida. Can't you imagine one with a "Jackson Racing" sticker on it already?
My husband is looking at the Subaru selection for a new ride. (I just got a cougar and love it but we're thinking if we have a real winter, AWD might be nice.) He would like a decent sound system, needs cargo space for his secret life as a musician and wants a car that is fun to drive. Subaru's reliability and consistent following is a draw. We test drove an impreza outback in manual and automatic. Both had a clunk in the back (sounded a bit like the cargo cover moving). Do they all do that? (It's fine as long as we know what we're dealing with.) We're still on the search, driving dealers nuts and will probably go and test drive a forester this week. Any suggestions? I agree with a previous post - that comments here are scarce on the 2.2 impreza and would really love to hear what owners have to say. I love the look of the little non-outback wagon but no one seems to stock them and NONE have the premium sound system etc etc etc. HELP!
Graham, I agree with you regarding -- what we call -- "Boy-Racer' looks. I wish Subaru would tone down some of the visual theatrics. It's funny, the Mercedes AMG models and BMW M models -- some of the hottest sedans in the world -- seem to do very well without huge spoilers, numerous scoops, etc. They are visual "sleepers", which is what I would hope (but doubt) Subaru would do with our WRX.
I bought a 2000 Legacy L a week and a half ago. We took her on a 1400 mile road trip and she drove like a dream. It is so nice to be able to reach in the back to grab things. And we did hit some snow going over a steep pass. I used to think I just wasn't a car person but now I know I've never had a car I was excited about, until now.
I drove a Legacy GT the other day, and I was really impressed with the handling. Compared to the OB, it's night and day. Much crisper, and very little body lean.
Now my question to the experts... will replacing the M+S Firestone tires with more performance oriented radials help in making the handling that much better? Or is the suspension really that different between the GT and OB?
I know in my MX-6, when I stick winter tires (Yokohoma Guardex's) on it, I can really feel the deterioation in handling...
patte: I own the Forester and would recommend it heartily. My best friend (who married my cousin) ended up buying a 99 Outback on my recommendation, and now my dad is going to buy a 2000 Outback Limited based on both of our experiences.
Keep in mind that you can get many of the accessories either installed at the dealer, or even buy them from the aftermarket and install them yourselves. Finally, another option is to custom order one exactly as you'd want it (if you're patient enough).
I would look at the Impreza wagon, the Outback Sport, the Legacy L and Brigthon wagons, and the Forester L, since they should come close to your price range.
Denice: congrats. I think the L represents an excellent value.
ash: tires will help a lot, since they are your only contact with the road.
However, the suspensions are tuned quite differently. The Outback's has much more travel, so don't expect the same level of handling. In contrast, you're better off on bigger bumps and off road.
The OB LTD we drove seemed very smooth and quiet, though we didn't push it hard at all.
Patte, I've no idea what the clunk was when driving the automatic OBS / impreza wagon. But when you were driving the 5spd, that probably was the normal driveline clunk for any AWD car... shifting perfectly eliminates it.
I ordered a Forester-S with Premium package a couple of weeks ago. Although I am a very neat person, I tend to partake in very messy activities. I'm one of those "women who kick butt." I also transport a big hairy dog in the back most of the time. Leather is a must for me over cloth for easy cleaning. Dog hair on cloth seats is awful. I was so disappointed when the dealer called me last week to let me know he just learned you can not get leather with the premium package because of the side air bags. I went ahead with the Premium Package thinking I'll figure something out. Does anyone know of any options? I find it hard to believe someone hasn't figured something out to make leather an option with a side air bag.
Interestingly enough, the Outback Ltd comes w/leather seats and side airbags. It is possible to have both. I don't know why the Forester should be different but maybe there is a different seat supplier as the Forester is built in Japan and the Outback/Legacies are built in Lafeyette, Indiana. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that Subaru didn't address this before bringing the 01'Forester to market. I'm convinced that the leather/side airbag/Prem. Pkg combo is an area that needs to be addressed.
Someone addressed this in another thread. I think the possible explanation was that the Forester with side bags in the leather (v. cloth) seats had not been crash-tested for certification yet and so that seat-covering/side bag combination could not be offered. Dan
Thanks for clearing up the Q-car thing. I love CAR magazine, but was always baffled by this term. Leave it to this forum to provide little bits of enlightenment....
My new forester S premium just arrived. It is at the dealership having a few options added including leather. Since the dealer is adding it at the time of purchase it will be covered under my warranty. I contacted Subaru during the research phase when I realized leather was not an option with the premium package. As addressed earlier it is simply because tests with both the side impact air bags and leather have not yet been conducted. I can't imagine the leather will make any difference, and besides my dealer is able to install the leather for less than that option would have cost me from the factory. I saw another premium on his lot with the leather and HAD to have it. It looks great! Good luck.
Not that I have to convince many people in this conference. Anyway, my wife and I were out tonight running a couple of errands. As we were leaving the car to go into a store a woman in a Civic pulls up behind us with her passenger window down. She was looking pretty intently at us. I thought she might be looking for directions. She inched up a couple of feet still looking at "us". I said hi,and she replied, "I was just looking at your car(2000 GT wagon). It is really stunning. It caught my eye, and I just want to get a good luck at it." She just needed a better look at the car! I thanked her, and she said a couple of more complementary things and then pulled away. After we got into the store I looked back out to see that she had come back and was walking around it. I watched for about a minute and then she left. I thought that maybe I could have hyped the car up a little more, but I think it did enough on it's own. Never had anybody gush over a car like that. We talked about how happy we were with it too.
does anyone have any info on when or if subaru will make the h6 with vdc available in the gt limited sedan. it seems if they are really serious about going toe to toe with the a4 and passat 4motion, they'd offer these enhancements in the sedan. you see far more passat and a4 sedans on the road then the avant of passat wagon. an h6/vdc subaru gt would be more then a match for the a4 2.8 and the passat v6.
Colin: even if you're not an air bag fan, be happy knowing Subaru has used the 2nd gen, less forcefully inflating type since 1998. They're unlikely to do any harm to small folks, at least.
Phil: I hear you. I often have people ask me if I like my "Jeep", and find it kind of funny. I tell them I love it of course, but that it's a modern AWD Subaru! No live axles or pushrod engines here.
Getting our second Sube in 2 months - a new 2000 Forester L tomorrow from Subaru of Calgary. We were forced into taking one with no AC as this was the only model with 3.8%/60 months/zero down (we are using the cnd$22.5K we are getting back on the sick GT wagon as part of a down payment on a house). AC is a mind blowing $2,100 option - though I might have been able to talk them down a bit. I have been living in Ireland for the last 10 years so I am not used to seeing the sun for more than three days per year. We chose silver (reflects more heat than dark colours) and included tinting in the deal. This may seem like a stupid question, but does anyone have any other tips to make the car bearable for the next couple of years until we can afford to get AC put in. If things get desparate, maybe I could fit a 12v fan in the back or even a cooler with the lid removed.
One fortunate aspect is that our new house is so close to downtown that we can bike/walk/bus to work. So less stop-and-go heat exhaustion than may have been the case. It will be doing more road trips to the mountains and of course the grocery/dog walking run.
Another good thing is that without the AC, it is 20kg lighter therefore 0.1% faster than most other Foresters.
What is the verdict on bug guards (Subaru OEM)? I have one bundled with the deal, but I read an old post that they transfer the rock chips to the windshield.
JP
PS: Have been enjoying my last few kms in the GT - does that car ever handle and stick to the road. One day I'm going to do things properly and get a WRX.....
* tint the windows as dark as you can * leave windows cracked open when you park * try to park in the shade or in a garage * use a windshield cover to keep seats/wheel cool * drive fast with windows open! )
I was in Tampa once and saw a place that would install A/C for $800, though they do a lot of volume. Check around and get quotes from the aftermarket.
-juice
PS Not only is it lighter without A/C, it's one less accessory belt sapping power, so it's more than 0.1% faster.
One other suggestion that I'm suprised juice didn't mention was getting a pop-up sunroof. It's inexpensive relative to an A/C system and will help vent your vehicle a lot quicker. Plus, it probably poses a smaller risk leaving it open when you park.
I had the OEM bug/stone deflector, but I wasn't crazy about the performance. The deflector does protect the leading edge of your hood, but it also launches small stones and bugs higher up on the hood. I also found that it was altering airflow such that my side mirrors began to vibrate when travelling at highway speeds. Finally, my biggest beef was with the fact that the deflector requires to be physically attached at the edges to your hood using plastic clips. I found it cumbersome to remove everytime I washed my vehicle and noticed that the tape began to wear after a while. In any event, the OEM deflector is only about a $50US investment so it wasn't a big loss.
Does anyone have experience with the premium stereo -- upgraded speakers, tweeters, subwoofer/amp -- in a Legacy wagon? I don't know if I should spring for the premium stereo when we buy a GT wagon or not bother and just go aftermarket. I don't need boomy rap bass, just clean, tight sound. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
Good point, KenS. Just get one with a visor cover, since otherwise you may be letting even more heat in when not in use (i.e parked on a day with chance of rain).
It's not an issue for me since I park under a car port at home, and in a garage at work.
It does help vent the interior very quickly, though. Hot air goes up and right out the vent.
I second that ... buy an aftermarket stereo and speakers and you'll get better sound plus you'll save money. The only thing I would go for from Subaru is the tweeters, because they're a custom fit for the front doors.
Thanks for the advice. Will go for the heavy tints, windshield cover and careful parking drills (under cover/shade, crack windows). It doesn't get that hot in Alberta (?). Maybe a pop roof next year. Juice, I was looking at your site. Apart from the hole in the roof, what other cutting was needed? Did you modify the rails? Is everything left neat (roof liner, etc). What was the cost? I will only get AC as a last resort, as I rather like the instant power boost (not to mention the SOHC over my current DOHC).
I'll give the bug guard a try as it's too late to delete it from the deal (it was a carry over from the original deal on the GT).
The JD Power (no relation) info is from early last year based on cars sold in 1997. I have been waiting to see how we do for this year (based on reports of cars sold in 1998). I can get Top Gear magazine in Calgary (the companion to the TV show) - the new survey will hit the mag before it is on the web. Subaru UK rely heavily on the JDP survey to sell cars to 'ordinary people' - i.e. not rally fanatics or 'boy racers'. They might be in trouble if their cars go down in the charts.
The Forester is not there as there are not enough sold in the UK. In fact, the survey is not exhaustive - it is based on testimonials from owners of selected models. The Toyota Corolla - slated by Top Gear as the most boring car on the planet - won the JD Power twice in the mid-90s.
I have re-read every review out there on the Forester - very hard to find a meaningful negative. Now really looking forward to the switch, and getting into our first totally new car. I'm not sure I will sleep well this evening.
Comments
to fmgarcia: thanks for the info. about Qsubaru. I'll give Darlene a call.
And to vince 14: thanks for the info. about the woodgrain kit. That's what I'm hoping to order from Qsubaru! What was the installation like?
I'll finish writing the rest of the message later, since unfortunately it was a long one that I don't feel like retyping now. Had to do with my lust for a PT Cruiser, even though I would probably still choose my OO OB over the Cruiser, if I was buying a car now. And also had to do with a cracked windshield that I just got -- bummer. I'll fill you all in later...
Nice to "see" you all again!
One of the items that I have ordered from Darlene was the Woodgrain Door Trim. Cost was $66.30 for the four pieces (again, shipping already included). Installation instructions were included and it took me about 20 minutes to do the job.
Francisco
Ash, I'm very sorry to hear about your check engine light woes. As MY00 is a redesign, I expect a few glitches with the release 1.0 hardware (as with computer hardware and especially Microsoft 1.0 software). Your problem is odd because AFAIK the Phase II engine has been out for two years and you'd hope problems have been ironed out. I actually expect more "people" problems (i.e., quality) resulting from the retooling of the Lafayette, IN production line from MY99, plus the typical start-up problems with suppliers. I too had an alignment problem (minor) that the dealer corrected. When I read that IIHS gave its highest safety rating to the MY00 Legacy, I think I made the right choice, release 1.0 issues aside. I know that doesn't make your experience any less frustrating. Please keep up updated.
Re: <157</A>> Subaru Impreza 2.5RS (fill).
157Does the Subaru Impreza 2.5RS perform as well as it looks, or does it fall short of that?Clubs
Oh boy, wrong question to ask on an enthusiast board
..Mike
..Mike
0-60 is in the 8 sec ballpark, topping out in the 120's. Not quite competitive with cars in its price range, like the Integra R and VW GTI 1.8T, although AWD helps in the nasty stuff and is a mitigating factor. Handles quite well though, especially with upgraded rubber. The chassis is well-regarded world wide as a neutral, tossable car that is capable of far more power than it is endowed with in the US market. The car carries the same body bits as the Euro/Japan Impreza Turbo, but here in the US those airdams, scoops and wings are not functional. The suspension has also been softened, with more understeer dialed in, to account for Americans' fundamental lack of skill and driver training. The turbo is world renowned as one of the best sporting bargains in automobilia Luckily, that turbo is coming. We here at Subaru Crew done heard tell it should arrive sometime this year as a 2001 model. I probably won't be able to afford one at $27K or so.
Also you can put some LED lights on the scoop and place two small speakers in each louvres and have them play "are you sure Michael?". Make sure the LEDs run left to right and it has to be red!
There are 3 aftermarket turbo availiable for the imprezas - JC Sports, Minnam and ASR. Rimmer makes a supercharger for them the Impreza too. Up here in Toronto, there are 2 shops that does WRX conversion - Can Jam and Japanese Automotive.
In a stop light race, it can easily beat out alot of cars. Why? Cus it has enuf torque and AWD to jump off the line ahead of any inferior 2WD "I wannabe a sports car too" econoboxes. Don't jus tlook at the 0-60 or 1/4 mile. Don't go straight. Go slideways!
Meanwhile, if 0-60 and top speed are your priority, you're probably in the wrong place. Subaru's strengths are traction, steering, handling, and braking, and ultimately the balance these provide. In foul weather there ain't an Integra in the world that could keep up.
Speaking of FWD, I drove back from the airport the other day and helped rescue a helpless Pontiac Gran Prix driver (so much for wider is better). She had taken an exit ramp too hot and understeered right off the road. Luckily, she slammed into a barrier and avoided driving sideways onto the highway, and noone was hurt. Soobs handle in a more neutral manner, and would probably not have slipped in the same soggy conditions in the first place. I guess AWD is more better than wider is!
I wouldn't worry too much about rust on a '98 Forester. Inspect the wheel wells and door jambs to make sure they are clean. The sheet metal in those areas is double-galvanized.
ash - sorry to hear about the troubles. Keep us posted on the fix?
Seems like we all have dogs. I have two, but they're lap dogs. They have harnesses and don't object to wearing them on trips. They've been on several road trips with us, too.
BTW, my dad was in town just visiting, and loved a 2001 Forester he saw in the mall. He swore it was bigger than mine (whatever), so we went to test drive one. He actually fell in love with a loaded Outback Limited, and decided to buy one when he moves here in July.
We test drove one, and I found it solid and quiet. Loved the 2nd sunroof, since I was in back. He and my step mother have two teenagers, and everyone loved it, and pressured him to buy it then and there (the sales staff at Fitzgerald are friendly, and give an up-front price). He spoke with the salesman and they agreed he would come back in July to buy it (no pressure at all).
My step-mom drives slow so she didn't even get into the power (not interested in the H-6). She loved the power seats, and the side air bags and crash test scores pleased her as well. The plood (plastic wood) fooled her, and she felt the auto shifter looked like a Benz's.
I was surprised because they are avid FoMoCo fans. They've had Cougars, Sables, Explorers, Tauri, you name it. My cousin (my step-mother's niece) has the '99 Outback and she borrowed it and loved it, so they decided to give it a try.
The only con I saw was the rear seat is much harder to fold flat than my Forester's.
That would mean 3 Soobs in the family. Once they buy it, I'll try to get a family photo (98 Forester L, 99 Outback, 2000 Outback Limited).
Oh, price was $200 over invoice with free loaner car and service discounts. It's $100 under invoice without that stuff, but my dad wanted those things anyway.
-juice
PS She liked the blue, wine, and green colors.
Great story about the Gran Prix. You should get a set of flashing lights for your Forester since you help out so many people! Imagine what the new VDC system would have done for that driver, let alone AWD.
Wow, 3 Soobs in your family. There's something contagious about knowing someone with a Soob. Four of my friends now own Foresters!
I believe I just bought one of the cars that you are talking about ( 98 Forester S ) that came from Eastern Canada, I have a feeling that these came from a fleet or rental company getting rid of their cars. I paid 23 000 CDN for mine and have had absolutely no problems. Many of people shy away from these cars because they may have been abused but on the other hand they were probably kept fairly clean so the road salt shouldn't be a problem. they price you listed is pretty good from what I've seen out there, just test drive and carefully look it over, Good Luck
Stephen
Seems like a fairly critical failure. Enough, that I have asked for a new Outback from my local Dealer, and they are going to get back to me on that.
I'll be honest with everyone here. I do love my Outback alot. After this episode I went out the last few days and again looked at alternatives (Accord Coupe V6, Passat GL$ Wagon/4 motion, Ford Focus, Audi A4), and I still think there's no vehicle that can match the value for the price. But I will feel much better when I have one that I can rely on.
-- ash
The main reason for it's 0-60 time of 8s is that it cannot hit 60MPH in 2nd gear. (bounces off the rev limiter right around 53) All of it competitors can, so that mandatory 3rd gear shift costs you a few tenths to a half second.
Look in the modifications discussion to see what I've done to my 2.5RS. I'm quite happy with the car, but would readily welcome more power.
I've had the car to about 120 and it gets there fairly fast. Beyond that I had no desire, and truth be told I've had it beyond 85 only a handful of times in the year I've owned it.
Rumor has it about this time next year we'll see the 2.5RS as the base model Impreza (they will drop the L since it has no chance against the Civic, Protege, Focus, etc.) and the turbo version should be well under $30k. Check out www.new-impreza.com for the latest rumors on it, and ignore Glenn's opinions about price. He's a nutty Aussie.
-Colin
Colin: good point about the gearing. In the Forester I believe you also have to shift twice before hitting 60mph. That's why 1/4 mile times are more meaningful.
-juice
-Colin
I haven't posted for a while as I have been falling out of love with my Sube (98 GT wagon - purcahsed used about 9 weeks ago). I have been having persistent problems with clutch judder (car shakes on low speed downshifts). I say 'problems' because the mechanics and the service manager at Subaru of Calgary don't think I have a problem. But, I have not been happy with the car from day one.
So today, the GT was taken back for the purchase price (even allowing for 5000kms of my driving) against a new silver 2000 Forester L. I only got 2-300 off MSRP on the Forester, but they threw in a replacement dog guard and hood guard, and gave me keyless and tinting at cost. The clincher was 3.8% Subaru of Canada finance with zero down (I'm getting a cheque for $22500 back). Picking up Wednesday/Thursday.
I now have peace of mind - will be more wary of a used buy next time. The GT was a fun (and cheapish) rental car, but I'm not sorry to see her go....
JP
.
The down side is that every "wannabe" can afford a real high quality pose machine, comfortable in the knowledge that it is seriously desirable. The local villains think so too and the WRX is the getaway car of choice for Australian robbers. The local police forces recognize this fact and have trialled WRX as well. Much more popular than the big 4WD in the rain.
Incidentally, some Australian Commodore police pursuit cars are being exported to the USA for police work. Apparently smaller and definitely sharper than Crown Victorias. I gather there is an absence of large rear drive vehicles for police work. For big V6 and V8 cars, they are surprisingly pleasant cars. Too big for my tastes though.
Australian roads are (barring Freeways) not as smooth as USA equivalents and there are some fabulous roads for a good balanced car. I was up in the hills near here yesterday where the mud is thick and 4WD very helpful. Suddenly I remembered what fun a good drive can be.
Cheers
Graham
Needless to say, we can't wait!
Bob
You are also right about the dearth of RWD v8 cars but I've not heard of the Holden imports. I don't keep tabs on the coppers though, if they suddenly start driving slow econoboxes that's fine with me.
-Colin
Interesting to hear about the Commodore. the only choice for U.S. police departments currently is the Crown Vic. No wait, GM has just re-introduced the Impala in a pursuit package, but it is a 3.8l V6 front drive car, and I don't see how it is going to work any better than the ill-fated Taurus Pursuit. GM also offers their Tahoe SUV, but it is just silly. how they expect it to navigate the average East Coast urban alley is beyond me.
We "custom" ordered the car and it came in exactly as specified.(and in about 3 weeks time) We got a 2001 Silver(monotone) S model with the Premium package (love that giant sun roof!), the upgraded sound system(wonderful option!) , and a lot of little extras. I did not want the woodgrain or the fin on the back (personal preference), and I was surprised to see that the vehicle did not have those items (I kind of thought they were standard with the Premiom package). It was definitely the easist buying experience I ever had. I know I got a fair deal and I wasn't ripped off on my trade in. Love the car, too. What a great ride. It is such a quiet engine, I can't even tell it is running....
- relatively flat
- relatively straight for at least a mile
- excellent visibility
- little or no traffic in the wee hours
- no place for cops to hide in the bushes
I've always used those stretches for my "speed runs". My last car, a Peugeot 505 Turbo, eased itself up to 100mph pretty readily. The wind noise was a roar, but the car was quite stable. The engine wasn't straining to reach that speed but the car also didn't seem to really *want* to go any faster. My suspicion is that aerodynamic drag was the big culprit at work with that car.
My new car is a MY00 5 speed Subie GT sedan. Now that it's beyond the engine breakin period I've been delving into the higher RPMs, and so when we found ourselves traversing one of those road sections recently I figured it was time to inaugurate the Subie with a "speed run" of its own. In a word, whoosh! Quiet and strong right through 100mph and up to 110. The RPMs were up there but the engine was by no means tapped out; I feel certain it would have pulled another 10mph without blinking. But my passenger was beginning to make comments about how fast the passing lane markers were flying by, so we backed down to a mere 85. To be honest I was happy to bring the speed back down below 100mph, because the front of my car is a mite twitchy - I found myself calling on some yoga calming techniques so as not to make any sudden moves of the the wheel. It's been suggested to me that perhaps the front end is toed out a bit; that makes sense to my mechanic's mind and is on my list for the dealer to check out. If a realignment does the trick, one of these early mornings I'll be back out there shooting for a buck and a quarter. This car *wants* it.
Cheers,
WDB
There was recently a very good review of the WRX in the UK magazine CAR. The UK market sees the WRX as the most fabulous thing to hit its shores since the Integrale and the WRX is user friendly, not breaking down each day as the Lancia did. The electrics even work. It shifts the Impreza from the vaguely acceptable to the superhero stakes.
I was thrown at the comparison with the Honda type R. Not really in the same league with the WRX. Mind you, I have no desire for one. I enjoyed a Toyota Corolla Twin Cam in the late 80's and a VW Golf GTi Mk II in the early 90's so have had my bit of fun. I want something saner these days.
Mind you, if the WRX was a Plain Wrapper with minimal aerodynamic aids and Plain Jane wheels, maybe I would be interested. The real joy of the Twin Cam and GTi was the apparently innocent appearance and hot rod performance when wanted. In England, they refer to innocent looking but hot cars as "Q-cars" as the prefix on the number plates shows which year the car was built (this practise has just changed). Cars built from parts and therefore not strictly of a single year, are given a Q prefix. Hot rods, often innocent looking, are often only identified by their Q number plate prefix.
I think I will stick with my Outback Limited. It makes me feel good
Cheers
Graham
Sheaster: you da woman! Yours is pretty much a convertible. It opens so wide that is serves front and rear passengers on both sides.
WDB: where's that road again...?
When the WRX arrives, you'll be able to tell the posers from the enthusiast owners easily. Just look for huge yellow stripes and hundreds of irrelevant stickers on the front quarter panel. There'll likely be a lot of those in SoCal and Florida. Can't you imagine one with a "Jackson Racing" sticker on it already?
-juice
Bob
Now my question to the experts... will replacing the M+S Firestone tires with more performance oriented radials help in making the handling that much better? Or is the suspension really that different between the GT and OB?
I know in my MX-6, when I stick winter tires (Yokohoma Guardex's) on it, I can really feel the deterioation in handling...
thanks,
-- ash
Keep in mind that you can get many of the accessories either installed at the dealer, or even buy them from the aftermarket and install them yourselves. Finally, another option is to custom order one exactly as you'd want it (if you're patient enough).
I would look at the Impreza wagon, the Outback Sport, the Legacy L and Brigthon wagons, and the Forester L, since they should come close to your price range.
Denice: congrats. I think the L represents an excellent value.
-juice
However, the suspensions are tuned quite differently. The Outback's has much more travel, so don't expect the same level of handling. In contrast, you're better off on bigger bumps and off road.
The OB LTD we drove seemed very smooth and quiet, though we didn't push it hard at all.
-juice
-Colin
Lafeyette, Indiana.
I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that Subaru didn't address this before bringing the 01'Forester to market.
I'm convinced that the leather/side airbag/Prem. Pkg combo is an area that needs to be addressed.
Stephen
Dan
tltoups: I suggest a pet barrier and one of those lint rollers. Any tape works, actually. FWIW, the fabric is very soft and luxurious.
My only problem is the nose prints on my windows, and since they are tinted I can't just use Windex.
-juice
My new forester S premium just arrived. It is at the dealership having a few options added including leather. Since the dealer is adding it at the time of purchase it will be covered under my warranty. I contacted Subaru during the research phase when I realized leather was not an option with the premium package. As addressed earlier it is simply because tests with both the side impact air bags and leather have not yet been conducted. I can't imagine the leather will make any difference, and besides my dealer is able to install the leather for less than that option would have cost me from the factory. I saw another premium on his lot with the leather and HAD to have it. It looks great! Good luck.
Give me a 3pt seatbelt and a firm chassis and I'm happy.
-Colin
We don't need no stinkin' SRS!
Anyway, my wife and I were out tonight running a couple of errands. As we were leaving the car to go into a store a woman in a Civic pulls up behind us with her passenger window down. She was looking pretty intently at us. I thought she might be looking for directions. She inched up a couple of feet still looking at "us". I said hi,and she replied, "I was just looking at your car(2000 GT wagon). It is really stunning. It caught my eye, and I just want to get a good luck at it." She just needed a better look at the car! I thanked her, and she said a couple of more complementary things and then pulled away. After we got into the store I looked back out to see that she had come back and was walking around it. I watched for about a minute and then she left. I thought that maybe I could have hyped the car up a little more, but I think it did enough on it's own. Never had anybody gush over a car like that. We talked about how happy we were with it too.
later
phil
an h6/vdc subaru gt would be more then a match for the a4 2.8 and the passat v6.
Phil: I hear you. I often have people ask me if I like my "Jeep", and find it kind of funny. I tell them I love it of course, but that it's a modern AWD Subaru! No live axles or pushrod engines here.
Yes, intrigue2, bring on a 3.0 GT VDC.
-juice
One fortunate aspect is that our new house is so close to downtown that we can bike/walk/bus to work. So less stop-and-go heat exhaustion than may have been the case. It will be doing more road trips to the mountains and of course the grocery/dog walking run.
Another good thing is that without the AC, it is 20kg lighter therefore 0.1% faster than most other Foresters.
What is the verdict on bug guards (Subaru OEM)? I have one bundled with the deal, but I read an old post that they transfer the rock chips to the windshield.
JP
PS: Have been enjoying my last few kms in the GT - does that car ever handle and stick to the road. One day I'm going to do things properly and get a WRX.....
* tint the windows as dark as you can
* leave windows cracked open when you park
* try to park in the shade or in a garage
* use a windshield cover to keep seats/wheel cool
* drive fast with windows open!
I was in Tampa once and saw a place that would install A/C for $800, though they do a lot of volume. Check around and get quotes from the aftermarket.
-juice
PS Not only is it lighter without A/C, it's one less accessory belt sapping power, so it's more than 0.1% faster.
I had the OEM bug/stone deflector, but I wasn't crazy about the performance. The deflector does protect the leading edge of your hood, but it also launches small stones and bugs higher up on the hood. I also found that it was altering airflow such that my side mirrors began to vibrate when travelling at highway speeds. Finally, my biggest beef was with the fact that the deflector requires to be physically attached at the edges to your hood using plastic clips. I found it cumbersome to remove everytime I washed my vehicle and noticed that the tape began to wear after a while. In any event, the OEM deflector is only about a $50US investment so it wasn't a big loss.
It's not an issue for me since I park under a car port at home, and in a garage at work.
It does help vent the interior very quickly, though. Hot air goes up and right out the vent.
-juice
-- ash
http://www.topgear.beeb.com/content/buying/jd_power/list_rating/1to20/index.html
Guess which two vehicles came out on top? Subaru Impreza and Legacy!
I'll give the bug guard a try as it's too late to delete it from the deal (it was a carry over from the original deal on the GT).
The JD Power (no relation) info is from early last year based on cars sold in 1997. I have been waiting to see how we do for this year (based on reports of cars sold in 1998). I can get Top Gear magazine in Calgary (the companion to the TV show) - the new survey will hit the mag before it is on the web. Subaru UK rely heavily on the JDP survey to sell cars to 'ordinary people' - i.e. not rally fanatics or 'boy racers'. They might be in trouble if their cars go down in the charts.
The Forester is not there as there are not enough sold in the UK. In fact, the survey is not exhaustive - it is based on testimonials from owners of selected models. The Toyota Corolla - slated by Top Gear as the most boring car on the planet - won the JD Power twice in the mid-90s.
I have re-read every review out there on the Forester - very hard to find a meaningful negative. Now really looking forward to the switch, and getting into our first totally new car. I'm not sure I will sleep well this evening.
JP
Removing the bug guard is pretty simple if you do chose not to use it. It takes about 5 minutes.
Ken