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Comments
I am pretty much sold on the 2001 Forester S
and have priced one with manual transmission
and premium package and the feature-group-3
and the premium-sound package. One of the dealers
here in the San Francisco Bay Area is asking
800 over invoice. Carorder.com prices it to be
in the same ball park and another dealer is
asking for 700 over. Reading some earlier posts
in the other mailing list at Edmunds, I see that
peopla have paid much less over invoice in
other areas of the country, some as low as only
a couple of hundred over.
Anybody have any help or advice on this? Could I
get any of the two dealers to go lower? I would
appreciate any advice that you all may have.
Thanks!
Arun
I did mean a CRX sports coupe that was supped up with low profile tires and a coffee can on the muffler with tinted windows. The guy had to drive up on the curb to get enough traction to go up a 2% slope. I thought it was pretty funny. The CRV's that I've seen don't seem to have any problem negotiating the snow, in the city.
Oh well, I still prefe Subies, especially with the crash results just in, imagine, a car that really helps you avoid accidents to begin with, but if you do, you have pretty good protection!
My schizophrenia continues, however. My 99 Forester L had the fading dome light, my OB Ltd dosen't! I guess it's so they could sell you the rear reading dome light as an option. Oh well.
Vince
Actually, it may be that I averaged 75 mph going up and, uh, don't tell Mr. Officer, about 85 mph on the way back. My 3 passengers slept all the way in the quiet interior, too!
Stopped at a dealer and saw the 2001 Forester S w/premium package, and I AM JEALOUS! That moonroof is HUUUUUGE! You simply have no idea how much until you see it. It's TWICE as big as my already full-size model. Other manufacturers should bow their heads in shame!
Quick observations: the blue is gorgeous, so is silver. Like the new hatch handle, and the cup holder looks like it will fit in our earlier models easily, with just 2 phillips screws. Back seat is same size but more comfortable.
Drew: you are absolutely welcome here any time. Your posts are very informative.
Anyone shopping for a new Outback after the Boxer 6 engine comes out should keep in mind they can use that as a bargaining tool.
Nice to see those crash test results, want to keep our friends here alive and well!
The dual range appeared in the ST-X, maybe a hint that it will come here? Hope so. Not planned, yet.
BTW - my photo was in the previous Drive, if you still have that. It may still be on the web.
-juice
Recalls aren't necessarily bad. Subaru is stepping up and correcting (ok, improving) the affected vehicles. Can you imagine the alternative? "They all do that".
Stephen: 225's would be close but I'd guess they'll fit. They are 5mm wider, but also 3mm taller, so it'll be very, very close. I looked at aftermarket wheels with a slightly different offset, to move the tire further from the spring base. Still undecided, today.
You may have a problem finding 16" steel wheels that fit. Subaru only makes 15" wheels, and some aftermarket alloys are near the same price anyway. That forced me to focus on 16" alloys, not steel, or two 16" sets of alloys for you.
I suggest you put snow tires on 15" steel rims which will weather better, and get new performance rubber for the stock alloys, which are already very nice looking.
2001s are hot. The dealer I saw had ZERO S models in stock, only L's. The Premium I saw that morning was gone two hours later (I was there to order and later pick up parts for a cousin's Caravan).
-juice
-juice
Welcome back. Wow, 27mpg! That's great milage. I think the best I've hit was 26mpg, but then again, I typically drive about 75-80.
Isn't that moonroof crazy big? It's got to be the biggest moonroof I've ever seen. The only thing I didn't like about the premium S was the rear spoiler.
The rear seats do seem more comfortable, but I would miss the reclining feature. My backseat passengers really like that feature, especially on long trips.
-2.5L intercooled, supercharged engine: 230hp@5600rpm, 210lb-ft torque at 4000. WHOA!
-Dual-range 5-speed
-8.5" ground clearance
-17x7 Enkei alloys
-2 PIAA roof mounted lights
-Rag top
-Functional hood scoop
-Custom Bosal exhaust
-Momo steering wheel
-McIntosh sound system
I hope this thing sees consumer light of day! Though I think it's pretty damn ugly. I want to get that engine in my 00 Outback and keep the enclosed space in the back. Purty kewl regardless though....
Looks like I'm in.
Bob
'96 Impreza Outback w/65K on it.
PS
I agree, lets get "Subaru" and "Impreza" in the "spellcheck" dictionary! I feel like I own an illegitimate car every time I run spellcheck and it doesn't recognize those words. In fact, it doesn't even recognize the word "spellcheck!"
Acutally, I think the SF Bay Area is one of the best places the buy a Subaru because of the high number of dealers. Most of the large dealers in the area (ie. Carlsen, Stevens Creek, Diablo) all offer a fixed invoice+ price for their Subies. The 2001 Foresters are marked up a bit higher since they just came out and some dealers still have 2000 inventory they're trying to get rid of.
If you can wait a couple more months, the price will probably fall to about $300 over invoice. That's what I've seen every year.
Hope that helps!
Thank you for your helpful advice.
(befishman) For one, the dealers have figured
out the out-of-state angle and have plugged
it and you get nailed at registration in the
state of calif...i.e if you buy it over the
border and drive it back, i think there is some law or something that you ought to have lived in
that state for 6mo to claim that you do not have
to pay the taxes. I will check with a few dealers
out of the area. As kens says, there are 3 local
dealers. Now, 6 of my close friends have Subies!
3 of them, the OBs, two have Foresters and one
has the Impreza...the point is, in
a long-winded manner, they all recommend this one
dealer whom i visited today and who was very
helpful, let me test drive the Subie, no pressure
afterwards, told me the price upfront, very
nice manner and so forth...but will not budge
on price...sigh! 2001 F's are hot...plus since I
want one in stick and moonroof (sucker for one,
you have to see it..it is huge) and those are
quite rare, I will have to fork up i suppose.
.arun
http://server2.ezboard.com/bultimatesubarumessageboards
this board is over 600 members strong, and although most people on the board own older Subes, there are a lot of helpful and knowledgeable folks there.
Sounds like you went to Carlsen Subaru. They've kind of set the standard of selling Subies in the Bay Area -- no haggle pricing, no pressure. One thing to note is that the other dealers, especially Stevens Creek, are eager to take business away from Carlsen because they are the #1 volume dealer in CA. You can probably get a lower price by asking them to beat Carlsen's price.
The CA tax is a "use" tax and the code states that you are responsible for reporting your purchase to the State Board of Equalization and you must pay the tax. (within a reasonable time period). If you buy a TV set from an out of state mail order house with no store in CA, the dealer will not charge you CA sale tax or sales tax for their own state. The tax rule says you should report the purchase and pay the tax. Most people do not comply to the rule because there is very little chance they will be "caught" with the goods. The tax board has little they can do to track these sales and no enforcement instrument with which to follow up. Such sales are not large enough to make it worth while to track down and there is no licensing to create a paper trail.
Automobile purchases are another thing. The tax amount is enough and the fact that it is licensed by the DMV gives the tax board an effective collection device. Oh, by the way, regarding a mail order purchase of something to use in your business and take deprecation on your income tax return. If you ever get audited, the tax cops will jump all over it!
The CA law is that you are required to get the vehicle registered here within six months of residency in the state. If you already live here, you are supposed to do it immediately. In any event, if you manage to drive it with the out of state plates without any hassle from the police, you may avoid the issue until the out of state registration expires. Then you will need to register it in CA, at which time DMV con make you pay the CA taxes and possible penalties, before they will issue a registration.
Of course, this assumes that you do not get into an accident (and related accident report) or a problem with your insurer, which triggers an automatic report to the DMV.
All in all, you must decide if it is worth the gamble.
Regards,
Jack
Been there, got caught.
I've admired Subarus since I saw my first Brat in the mid 70s, but it wasn't until just three weeks ago that I bought my first one, a 2000 Legacy L, 5 speed Wagon. I live in Missouri where there aren't many Subes on the road, in fact the selection of Legacy Wagons was so poor, I had to order mine. Now that I have it, I've found it's everything I'd hoped for.
I had been driving a Voyager for the past eight years, and decided to get the Legacy because it has good cargo room, but is much more fun to drive than a van. It also gets better gas mileage, and of course the AWD is an added bonus.
I don't plan on modifying it in any way, I just intend to take good care of it, and drive it for a long time. Of course who knows, in a few years when the kids are out of the house and the mid life crisis really kicks in, I may want something a little more exciting. But until then, this will do very nicely. I look forward to checking in here on a regular basis.
Dave
Glad you found the "Crew" site. I'm sure you will be pleased you ventured this far!
Don
Do people feel the shocks or suspension is a little soft? If so, what can be done about to stiffen them up? And btw, are these struts or shocks?
Secondly, here in Oregon, I've noticed that after the MSRP and the added features, the dealers are adding a "Market Value Adjustment". What is the point of this?
And maybe one other question, if I have a choice between the 2000 and 2001 Forester S and I intend to keep this car until it dies, does it really matter the model year?
Thanks.
3 Outbacks for my wife (just got a new 2000)
GT then 99 Outback for myself (5 sp)
2000 RS 2.5 5 sp. for our new daughter-in-law
1998 Forester S 5 sp.
We love the cars, love our suburban St. Louis dealer, Webster Groves Subaru.
I have three questions:
1.want to drive a Subaru up to Alaska (one guide book names them the No. 1 rated car for this) and wonder what people's thoughts are as to 2001 Forester vs. 2000 Outback. Either one would be a 5 spd.
2. I'm not as comfortable in my wife's 2000 Outback as I am in my 99 Outback. Is the new Forester more comfortable (front seat is all I care about -- I'm 6' 3 1/2") than the Outback?
3. What is known about the six-cylinder -- when does it come out, what are prices, will it be available with a 5-sp. What are EPA mileage figures?
Thanks a lot
-- Acorn
The Forester uses a combination of coil springs and struts for it's suspension. Since the Forester is designed for some light off-road duty, the suspension will be slighlty softer on-road than most cars, but stiffer than your typical SUV. It really depends on what your application is.
Market Value Adjustment is simply the dealer saying, "the vehicle is in high demand so we're going to raise the price by this amount". They're just trying to justify their high asking price. Remember, you shouldn't be paying over MSRP.
If you're not worried about resale value and you don't care for the new features of the 2001 Forester, then I would say go ahead and save some money by buying a 2000. The main components -- drivetrain and chassis -- are virtually the same.
I have been looking at the 2000OB,2000 and 2001 Foresters and have a few questions. I live near Anchorage AK and unfortunately we have only 1 dealership. They are known for their unwillingness to "deal" because subaru's are a premium vehicle here. I do primarily road driving but I also live in the mountains which requires a mile of rough, 4WD only winter, driving just to get home. The last 8 years I walk or snowmachine! I also sea kayak, ww kayak, bike, etc. Now,
1. What are my best options to deal with my dealer on pricing? I don't want to pay for all of those options. Is ordering from the manufacturer better?
2. How does the Forester handle on off-road conditions? I keep hearing it is not an off-road vehicle but how does it compare to the OB?
3. Can the Forester carry a sea kayak? It seems very short in length.
4. Is the Forester 2001 overall better than the 2000? the S? of the L?
My old 84 Subaru GL will not make another year. I will need a new replacement soon.
If you're going to drive the car forever, as I am, it's easy to rationalize the extra cost - an additional grand amortized over even five years is very little extra. If you're in Portland, or willing to drive there for the car, I can recommend Cornerstone Auto Group - they got me mine for 2.9% over invoice with no haggle. Wentworth may also get you a good deal, but you have to avoid the salesmen and talk to the fleet mgr there.
Miche4 - the Forester can indeed carry a sea kayak - it handles my 17' canoe easily.
does it come out, what are prices, will it be
available with a 5-sp. What are EPA mileage figures?
I'll toss out what I've heard, rumors of course.
3L flat six, narrow bore spacing (ever seen a VW vr6?) gives short case and light weight. Estimates range from 200-220 HP. Most people are assuming worse gas mileage than the 2.5L four, but if it makes a good bit more torque then it could use a deeper overdrive ratio or conservative axle ratio. Expect Subaru to try very hard to keep the city EPA rating at or above 20MPG.
I also expect it to debut with automatic only and then within 1 model year have a manual available. They surely won't repeat the SVX's mistake. (would they?)
-Colin
Basically I have a new 2000 Outback with the all-weather package, 3200 miles of highway driving and minimal stop and go in the city-- now with a burnt out clutch plate ?!?
I've been driving manual transmissions for 15 years, Subies for 13 of those, under all kinds of conditions (Colorado mountains). I've never had a clutch problem before. This happened about 1.5-2 miles up a very benign dirt road in an area with a little sand, few rocks. I had backed down to a turn out (20 yds) began to maneuver the car (forward and back 2-3 times) to turn around. I was not stuck, the car had done great until that point. Next thing I know it stopped moving.
The dealer says the ONLY way this could happen is from me abusing the car (and thus voiding the warranty). I don't ride the clutch and wasn't stuck or doing anything difficult when this happened-- so I am puzzled. I am fighting this, and the technical manager is coming to look at the part-- but I was wondering if anyone had heard anything or has any tips. (eg is there something different/tricky or more fragile about hydraulic clutches???) HELP!!
The clutch disk itself simply cannot be worn out this soon, it's impossible. Where there any warning signs before it totally let go, like slippage?
My bet is that inspecting the flywheel will show hot spots where it was making partial contact with the clutch. Almost all of the premature clutch failures I've heard about were easily traced to a bad pressure plate. But I've never heard of one with so few miles, even from the maniacs dropping the clutch at redline.
-Colin
Re your post #79...Why not take a bus or plane ride to Washington State, buy your Forester there at a better price from a wider variety of dealers, and drive it home to Anchorage?
I am interested in a 2001 Subaru Forester S, and I like the moonroof option (seems to also include side airbags). Is it true that you cannot also order leather if you order the premium package?
Carorder showed it as a conflicting menu pick. Can you get both leather and the premium package?
the MSRP and the added features, the dealers are
adding a "Market Value Adjustment". What is the
point of this?<<
The point is for them to make more money. You might try Carsdirect.com. Input the vehicle and options you want and they will give you a guaranteed price about halfway between the MSRP and the invoice. They work with dealers in most states. You can go to the nearest of these dealers to get your car at that price. I ended up using another service, Autoweb.com. With this service, a salesman will contact you and give you a low, no haggle price over the phone. The dealer who called me ended up being from... Webster Groves Subaru, which Acorn already mentioned several post ago. (I guess we're neighbors) Anyway, the guy at Webster Groves gave me a price more than $100 lower than the Carsdirect price. Of course here in St. Louis, Subarus are not in high demand, so that helps. But if there is a Carsdirect dealer close to you, at least you know you'll be paying less than sticker. Give it a shot. Good luck.
Dave
If you are in the Portland area (or willing to travel), check out the weekend ad prices in The Oregonian. On 4/8/00, Thomason Subaru had an ad price on a 2000 Forester S for $19,899 - with about $500 worth of options.
Most dealers in the area should match the lowest weekend ad prices. Not many 2000's S models left in the local dealers inventory, so you're probably better off looking at the 2001's. (I'm sure they'll start advertising the 2001's soon.)
Thomason seems to consistently have the lowest ad price. I had a good experience buying from them, but I think the other dealers should be willing to match Thomason's price. If you deal with Thomason ask for Don or Faith Leith, a nice low-key sales team. Basically, in the Portland area you should be able to get a Forester for invoice or less, without too much of a hassle. E-mail me if you have any further questions.
The new blue color on the Forester is gorgeous.
Outback or Forester? Good question. Same engine and tranny, same AWD system. The Forester is lighter and has a shorter wheelbase, so I found it more agile and fun.
On the other hand, the Outback is beefy and refined, and quieter and more roomy.
I'd say get the Forester if you have 0-1 kids, Outback if you have 2+ kids. Both ought to be right at home in Alaska.
Get the S if you want a firm ride. The 60 series tires on the Forester are quite sporty. The 70 series on the L "give" too much, though they absorb big bumps well.
Among Foresters, the 2001s seem much improved and worth the extra $300. Even if dealers charge a bigger margin, that is. Besides, the 2000s are dwindling fast.
The new seats are more comfortable, but I'd sit in them and try them out. Different sizes will be happier in different seats.
Look for details on the Boxer 6 on Thursday. SoA has a press release at 10am. My guess is 220hp and 20/25 mpg.
Soober: are you asking because QSubaru@aol.com stopeed working, or you didn't have the full e-mail address? Maybe Darlene's mail box filled up?
-juice
Sounds like rubbish to me. Many luxury cars (i.e. Volvo, Audi, Lexus, etc.) have side impact airbags built into the front seat and even the rear seats. All of which are wrapped in leather. I seem to recall that the '01 Forester that I saw at the autoshow had leather AND the side impact airbags.
Jack_G.
Re. seat pucker -- my 00 OB passenger seat came with a pucker on the side. The dealer says it the seat cover needs to be adjusted, which will require taking out the seat and pulling down the cover. Says they'll do it the next time I come in. Hope it's that simple.
Stephen
I'm hoping to buy a 2001 Forester L in Blue or maybe Gold (I'll have to look at them side by side I suppose) very soon. I'm just trying to get the rest of the down payment together. I live in SE PA, but I will be relocating to the Northern or Central NJ region soon because of my new job. There is a dealer in Allentown, PA who told me via Email that he will sell me any 2001 Forester in stock or factory ordered for invoice. I don't think the deal can get much better than that. It's a 45 min drive, but well worth it for the price. I was wondering if anyone knew of a good dealer in the NJ region.
Does anyone have any advice on financing? I have a friend who went through the an internet service for a loan and got a rate of 7.9% or something like that. I'm wondering if that is better than what I could get by financing it through Subaru.
It's getting close to time to buy and I'm getting excited. Any advice anyone could provide would be great.
BTW....When I was at a dealer a week ago, they had little round shaped advertisement things laying around for the ST-X. I asked the dealer when he thought they were coming out. He said, "We should be getting some in a couple of months." Anyone else hear anything?
Looking forward to the posts,
Skip
I got a offer from one dealer, 2001 Forester L,auto trans,CD player,Keyless Entry system, alarm system, $20390 + tax. if it worth for the price?
I will relocate to Valley Forge,PA form centra NJ,does someone know better dealer in Valley Forge PA?
Appreciate any suggestion
Guoqiang
tincup
Thanks for all the replies. This is a great board!
Their official stance on the ST-X at the autoshows, even after all the positive feedback, was "we're thinking about building it."
I would definitely take a long look at an ST-X if it were in production!
-Colin