Bob, interesting topic. I think OutBRAT sounds too much like Outback, especially when said quickly, as in radio or television ads. Both are disyllabic with nondistinctive phonemes (try alternating brat and back quickly and you'll see what I mean). I pay attention to things like this when advising customers what domain name to choose for their website. (Not that there are any good ones left.) If you can't say it on the radio without confusing someone, it's a bad name. One of my least favorites, for English-speakers, is Sodexho Marriott, or www.sodexhomarriott.com.
Given that the XTerra name is out there, ST-X (Subaru Truck eXtreme) might work, as hard consonants (like X and K) work well in names (Kodak, Qualex). OTOH I don't think ST-X is in the same category as XTerra, so maybe not. Feel free to correct me as I don't know that market segment.
The chrome cue-ball knob on the Lexus IS300 and the brushed aluminum knob on the Honda S2000 both get pretty hot after a couple of hours in the sun. You'll need a pair of leather driving gloves to handle them :-)
I don't care what letter of the golfanged alphabet they use, but NO MORE X!! PULEEZE! And another thing- Addmission to this here Generation X ended in 1978, unnerstand? No video game junky punks allowed. Why, I feel downright co-opted! Using MY moniker to sell a whole other generation that wouldn't know an Atari 2600 from a Commodore 64.
Ahem, anyway, how about the Dingo? Or Kanga'Ru?
Or geographical references, like El Camino? We already have the Outback, So why not the Canberra? "Yes, I'd like to test drive the new Warrnambool, please."
Uh....form?! hehe...it looks pretty, but you'll need to put a sock over it, especially during the summer months. Hey, how's that as an idea for a potential aftermarket product? ;-) I guess the same thing goes for the aluminum pedals without the little rubber traction pieces. Not very fun to drive with if your feet are wet.
Drew: string-back gloves, right? Carbon fiber is great so long as it's real. No gold package, agreed. What was Toyota thinking?
rooCREW would also be a tip of the hat to us! I still like the name OutBRAT.
Loosh: the S4 Avant is heading this way. Love that WRX wagon. Wagons, ho!
Mike - how was the Rendezvous? Maybe we'll move that discussion to Events.
The ST-X would be perfect at the beach. 8.5" of clearance with 225mm tires are plenty fine for sand, and don't forget the low range. Even the 17% reduction the Aussies get is enough. Plus, the bed would fit all the beach gear: chair, umbrella, towels, etc. that get sandy, and otherwise end up INSIDE my Forester. Or yours.
Same for the mulch bags. Even the bags leak like crazy and make a mess. A tarp helps.
Hmm, that press release says the new enine plant is making 4 bangers, so perhaps the ST-X will get that engine. The H6 would fit the image better, though.
AMC Eagle first? No, no. Soob was a half decade ahead of them, with the first 4WD wagon, back in 1974. Here is a photo:
The RAV4 was actually built off the Japanese Camry platform (not the Corolla), a previous generation, I believe, with AWD from the Celica All-Trac. The new one appears to be an evolution of that platform.
Factory tint! Great suggestions. Please mention that, Patti.
That VDC review was C&D. They were critical, mostly because of the price, but they completely missed the point of the VDC model. If all you want is the H6, you get the LL Bean for thousands less.
None of the models they compared it to have traction and stability control. They just don't get it.
The VDC will carve its own niche, if you will. It's a butch wagon, so only the XC and Allroad compete with it in that way. The Passat matches more closely with the GT.
Don't matter none. With only 1300 they're probably half gone by now.
What I can't figure out is how they managed to get a 9.5 second run from 0-60 mph. This seems awfully conservative. The H6 VDC wagon that I drove seemed similar to my '99 Camry XLE V6 as far as acceleration goes.
Makes a statement in favor of safe sex, fits with the phallic connection between guys and cars, and the teenagers will always have something ready when they borrow Dad's car.
Make 'em color coordinated and put little sayings on 'em (for Subaru manuals, how 'bout "Roo Screw") and they'll be blowing them out the door.
That Car and Driver test was bunk! They say the Outback H6 is not close to the A4 Avant (though not avail. in Canada) even though it has more power, but then they rave about the Volvo Cross Country that has a dash design that puts you to sleep looking at it, and has 15 less horsepower than the Outback. I wonder what the advertising split is....
Mike I'll take up the challenge!! I do like Didjeridoo although I prefer Goonoo Goonoo (pronounced gunny g'nu. I have no idea what it means. It's a small creek near Tamworth NSW).
The marketing moguls could make mayhem with those rhymeing oo's and u's. e.g From Juice's place to Uluru Have we got The vehicle for you In this modern age When choices are few You won't be passed In your Goonoo Goonoo And of course it's by SUBARU
Uluru is not bad either (That's a big piece of shangi (catapault) ammunition located in the middle of Australia.
Why not Timbuctu There's more u's in that than a mob of sheep.
All the more reason! For some reason I am thinking Outlander was taken, though.
Mike- *sigh* I was hoping no one would mention that, but, with the geekfest around here, I 'spose I shouldn't be surprised ) You win the award for posting the most links, too.
I keep promising to write down my thoughts on what I'd like to see in future Subaru models but keep getting sidetracked. I know a lot of you have probably hit on these before, but I'm lazy and a bit pressed for time so I won't scroll through to see if I'm treading trodden ground. Again, for the record mine is a '00 Forester S with automatic, current mileage = 13,022.
On the Forester:
1. Remove the fabric from the top of the doorsills. Not a wise design - I hit a lot of toll booths in this part of the country and, even though I try to be careful, the fabric is starting to wear.
2. Make the 18mm rear sway bar standard. A great upgrade I did myself, and I don't think it makes the car unpredictable for the novice.
3. Power good for the most part, though it could use a little more passing power. 200-210 hp would be adequate, turbo or no. Torque is very good as is. Not sure Forester needs H6 - I'd get in too much trouble - but a high-performance version would sell (see below).
4. A remote rear gate release would be nice.
5. So would a remote fuel door release.
6. Seat height adjustment needs to raise seat, not just front and rear cushion angles. (I think kate5000 wrote about this.) My '86 VW Jetta had this feature - pretty simple.
7. I don't need a gear selector indicator in the instrument cluster a la Honda, but many others probably would like it.
8. In-dash 6-disc changer option remedied for '01, can I retrofit it?
9. Paddleshift "manumatic" as in the Legacy B4 - and make it available across the entire Subaru line. Maybe even a 5-speed automatic.
10. Thicker paint and clearcoat (Subarus seem to chip more easily than others, and mine is no exception).
For Subarus generally:
1. Expand availability of the H6 in the Legacy line to GT models. I'd have bought a GT over the Forester if it had more power.
2. Take advantage of WRC success in US marketing. We hear nothing over here and the rest of the world knows Subaru as a rally weapon. (Maybe sponsor a WRC exhibition in the US?) Hopefully you'll do this with the rollout of the new Impreza.
3. Make high-performance version of Impreza wagon available in US. I might have even thought of buying a 2.5RS wagon if it was available. As it is I think of my Forester as roughly equivalent.
4. Tone the ST-X down just a smidge, style it consistent with the Outback. That Ford Explorer Sport Trac is heinous looking - the break between cab and bed reminds me of a stagecoach or Model T (maybe that's intentional?) and clashes with the rest of the styling.
5. Name the ST-X? How about "Outback Ute"? A nod to a body style long in favor in Australia.
6. How about a limited edition Forester WRX? Drivetrain from the Impreza WRX in a Forester package that emphasizes more sports car, less SUV?
on Forester improvements: 1-7 and 10. Height-adjustable seat and thicker/better paint is a must.
From EdmundsLive: most negative comments I heard about Forester referenced to its lower stance -- although those who test-drove it, admitted that it made through the course much better than higher-standing CR-V.
I personally like a tall wagon appearance, and it is really comfortable for me to get in and out, easier to park and feels more secure when driving. Still, many SUV-inclined folks prefer a higher seating position.
Kate: you wouldn't believe how many comments I get on my fender flares. I put them on for function, since my tires are wider, and think they look pretty good, but bystanders seem to like them much more than I do!
One Summit AWD owner walked up and asked about the flares first, then the Forester itself. He said he'll probably buy one.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting something here, Juice. I understand what you're saying, but what I'm thinking of is a button or latch within the driver's reach that, when pushed or pulled, will allow the tail gate to pop open and rise slightly - not so much that it might hit something, but just pop it a couple of inches. If my Forester has one, I've missed it in the 9 months I've owned it. They have these for trunks on sedans, why not on wagons?
Ed: No, you didn't miss anything. I know what you mean, but the handle it right there in front of you, so why would you need a remote "handle", if you will? Besides, I grab that handle to lift the hatch.
I don't much think I need a tail gate release (closing the tail gate on my Forester actually requires notably more effort than opening it). What I would find handy is a switch on the the interior of the open tail gate I could flick to lock or unlock the entire vehicle before closing the tail gate. But I suppose if you already have the remote keyless entry option, you don't really need it the way I do.
I've wrote a "wish list" of Forester improvements already, but I forgot a couple.
Illuminate the wiper and cruise control stalks. The first time I had to use my wipers, it was at night. Even though I had read the manual, I ended up turning on the map light briefly to figure out how to run them. As I get more familiar with the car, this won't be a problem. With as little rain as we get in Nebraska any more, it might not be a problem anyway.
Add a control so you can turn on/off the interior light from the driver's seat. I'm talking about the main interior light, which is waaayy back there if you've got a sunroof (and maybe if you don't). I don't have children, but friends who do tell me that they sometimes need to operate the light so the kids can locate that toy/french fry/whatever they dropped, while staying properly buckled up.
My 2001 is doing great; just passed 1500 miles. I've had one trip back to the dealer - the alignment wasn't correct from the factory. This was fixed with no problems. I'm doing some interstate driving this week. It does fine at 75+ mph, although I must admit that my Saab handled the higher speeds better. But the Saab's reliability left something to be desired . . .
Seriously though, I might as well let my opinion be heard. Since Bob, Faye and a few others want some more lights, can I have the option to black the whole instrument panel except for the speedometer? Some competitors offer this.
Yep, I'm all for all those little lights that make night driving just a bit easier.
Speaking of which... I noticed that Honda, with it's 2001 Accord & Civic are now offering a little light on the "Auto" down power window switch. It's a great idea. On my Explorer I have lights on all my power windows and cruise control. As I've said, it's real helpful at night.
I love as many lights and guages as possible. When I drive I take it seriously, I like to know what is happening with my vehicle @ all times, so count my vote for lights and guages!
The new Passat/Golf/Jetta lineup illuminates everything from vent directors to window switches. This makes it easy for passengers to find such things in the dark. It also looks cool as hell, especially with that indiglo dash. AS Colin said, though, Audi lets you turn off everything but the speedo. And I thought the poor little light on the driver's side window of my OB was nifty.
Tex: why not add keyless? It's an extrememly useful feature, and it's not hard to install, from what I've heard. At least drop Darlene a message and get a quote.
Now that I've had it, I can't imagine not having it. Especially with a baby and all the stuff I haul (my hands are always full).
Faye: I like the light switch idea. They moved my light back when my moonroof was installed (aftermarket), so I totally know what you mean.
Colin: one small change - leave only the speedo and the tach lit. Dim everything else (the driver can control this, of course).
Now that I think about it, I agree. The 323 sedan, at least with the auto, is really not very impressive. Slap AWD on the Bimmer and the Forester will match it to 60mph, never mind the H6.
I'd LOVE to see a 330ix wagon, Passat 4Motion, Outback VDC, Volvo XC comparo.
There must be a place where there are all those dealers real close.... We should each go test drive em and meet at an abandon lot at the same time... Now that would be fun!
Comments
Given that the XTerra name is out there, ST-X (Subaru Truck eXtreme) might work, as hard consonants (like X and K) work well in names (Kodak, Qualex). OTOH I don't think ST-X is in the same category as XTerra, so maybe not. Feel free to correct me as I don't know that market segment.
Nope, I don't have any suggestions.
..Mike
..Mike
..Mike
Ahem, anyway, how about the Dingo? Or Kanga'Ru?
Or geographical references, like El Camino? We already have the Outback, So why not the Canberra? "Yes, I'd like to test drive the new Warrnambool, please."
Wow Lucien, you remember the Atari 2600 AND the Commodore 64? Maybe there is hope for our inter-generational gap
Lucien, there already is a Canberra, the B-57 (I mention this because the English Electric Canberra, a British bomber, was built by Martin Aircraft, near Baltimore).
B-57 in brief w/drawing
RB-57 w/photos
B-57 in excruciating detail (and I thought I was detail-oriented)
English Electric Canberra
I like Dingo. Any one with other name ideas? Maybe we should defer this discussion to Graham and aussieroo.
..Mike
..Mike
rooCREW would also be a tip of the hat to us! I still like the name OutBRAT.
Loosh: the S4 Avant is heading this way. Love that WRX wagon. Wagons, ho!
Mike - how was the Rendezvous? Maybe we'll move that discussion to Events.
The ST-X would be perfect at the beach. 8.5" of clearance with 225mm tires are plenty fine for sand, and don't forget the low range. Even the 17% reduction the Aussies get is enough. Plus, the bed would fit all the beach gear: chair, umbrella, towels, etc. that get sandy, and otherwise end up INSIDE my Forester. Or yours.
Same for the mulch bags. Even the bags leak like crazy and make a mess. A tarp helps.
Hmm, that press release says the new enine plant is making 4 bangers, so perhaps the ST-X will get that engine. The H6 would fit the image better, though.
AMC Eagle first? No, no. Soob was a half decade ahead of them, with the first 4WD wagon, back in 1974. Here is a photo:
http://thejuiceman.homepage.com/more.html
-juice
Factory tint! Great suggestions. Please mention that, Patti.
That VDC review was C&D. They were critical, mostly because of the price, but they completely missed the point of the VDC model. If all you want is the H6, you get the LL Bean for thousands less.
None of the models they compared it to have traction and stability control. They just don't get it.
The VDC will carve its own niche, if you will. It's a butch wagon, so only the XC and Allroad compete with it in that way. The Passat matches more closely with the GT.
Don't matter none. With only 1300 they're probably half gone by now.
-juice
-juice
PS I think they just saw the price and then started looking for reasons to say it wasn't worth that much
I'd go for something else -- a condom.
Makes a statement in favor of safe sex, fits with the phallic connection between guys and cars, and the teenagers will always have something ready when they borrow Dad's car.
Make 'em color coordinated and put little sayings on 'em (for Subaru manuals, how 'bout "Roo Screw") and they'll be blowing them out the door.
Randy
The VDC is closer to the Allroad than it is to the A4. And despite the fancy air suspension, the Brits picked the Forester over it for off road duty.
-juice
mfugga, good one! Rhymes w/Subaru, too. The "Subaru Didjeridu" might fail my radio enunciation test. Didj List FAQ
..Mike
..Mike
I'll take up the challenge!!
I do like Didjeridoo although
I prefer Goonoo Goonoo
(pronounced gunny g'nu. I have no idea what it means. It's a small creek near Tamworth NSW).
The marketing moguls could make mayhem with those rhymeing oo's and u's.
e.g
From Juice's place to Uluru
Have we got
The vehicle for you
In this modern age
When choices are few
You won't be passed
In your Goonoo Goonoo
And of course it's by
SUBARU
Uluru is not bad either (That's a big piece of shangi (catapault) ammunition located in the middle of Australia.
Why not Timbuctu
There's more u's in that than a mob of sheep.
Gus
#1 would have to be the Ford Ka
followed by the Ford Focii (sorry couldn't resist
How about Subaru Outlander
-mike
-juice
Mike-
*sigh* I was hoping no one would mention that, but, with the geekfest around here, I 'spose I shouldn't be surprised
Bill
Goonoo Goonoo (Gunny G'noo) Creek
http://www.nrma.com.au/media/tm-maps-tamworth.pdf
Cheers
Gus
-juice
-mike
On the Forester:
1. Remove the fabric from the top of the doorsills. Not a wise design - I hit a lot of toll booths in this part of the country and, even though I try to be careful, the fabric is starting to wear.
2. Make the 18mm rear sway bar standard. A great upgrade I did myself, and I don't think it makes the car unpredictable for the novice.
3. Power good for the most part, though it could use a little more passing power. 200-210 hp would be adequate, turbo or no. Torque is very good as is. Not sure Forester needs H6 - I'd get in too much trouble - but a high-performance version would sell (see below).
4. A remote rear gate release would be nice.
5. So would a remote fuel door release.
6. Seat height adjustment needs to raise seat, not just front and rear cushion angles. (I think kate5000 wrote about this.) My '86 VW Jetta had this feature - pretty simple.
7. I don't need a gear selector indicator in the instrument cluster a la Honda, but many others probably would like it.
8. In-dash 6-disc changer option remedied for '01, can I retrofit it?
9. Paddleshift "manumatic" as in the Legacy B4 - and make it available across the entire Subaru line. Maybe even a 5-speed automatic.
10. Thicker paint and clearcoat (Subarus seem to chip more easily than others, and mine is no exception).
For Subarus generally:
1. Expand availability of the H6 in the Legacy line to GT models. I'd have bought a GT over the Forester if it had more power.
2. Take advantage of WRC success in US marketing. We hear nothing over here and the rest of the world knows Subaru as a rally weapon. (Maybe sponsor a WRC exhibition in the US?) Hopefully you'll do this with the rollout of the new Impreza.
3. Make high-performance version of Impreza wagon available in US. I might have even thought of buying a 2.5RS wagon if it was available. As it is I think of my Forester as roughly equivalent.
4. Tone the ST-X down just a smidge, style it consistent with the Outback. That Ford Explorer Sport Trac is heinous looking - the break between cab and bed reminds me of a stagecoach or Model T (maybe that's intentional?) and clashes with the rest of the styling.
5. Name the ST-X? How about "Outback Ute"? A nod to a body style long in favor in Australia.
6. How about a limited edition Forester WRX? Drivetrain from the Impreza WRX in a Forester package that emphasizes more sports car, less SUV?
Okay, that's all for now. Thanks for listening.
Ed
1-7 and 10. Height-adjustable seat and thicker/better paint is a must.
From EdmundsLive: most negative comments I heard about Forester referenced to its lower stance -- although those who test-drove it, admitted that it made through the course much better than higher-standing CR-V.
I personally like a tall wagon appearance, and it is really comfortable for me to get in and out, easier to park and feels more secure when driving. Still, many SUV-inclined folks prefer a higher seating position.
The CD changer should fit, but ask Darlene.
Nice list, though.
Kate: you wouldn't believe how many comments I get on my fender flares. I put them on for function, since my tires are wider, and think they look pretty good, but bystanders seem to like them much more than I do!
One Summit AWD owner walked up and asked about the flares first, then the Forester itself. He said he'll probably buy one.
-juice
Ed
well!!
Gus
-juice
-mike
Illuminate the wiper and cruise control stalks. The first time I had to use my wipers, it was at night. Even though I had read the manual, I ended up turning on the map light briefly to figure out how to run them. As I get more familiar with the car, this won't be a problem. With as little rain as we get in Nebraska any more, it might not be a problem anyway.
Add a control so you can turn on/off the interior light from the driver's seat. I'm talking about the main interior light, which is waaayy back there if you've got a sunroof (and maybe if you don't). I don't have children, but friends who do tell me that they sometimes need to operate the light so the kids can locate that toy/french fry/whatever they dropped, while staying properly buckled up.
My 2001 is doing great; just passed 1500 miles. I've had one trip back to the dealer - the alignment wasn't correct from the factory. This was fixed with no problems. I'm doing some interstate driving this week. It does fine at 75+ mph, although I must admit that my Saab handled the higher speeds better. But the Saab's reliability left something to be desired . . .
Faye
NOOOOOOO....
;-)
Seriously though, I might as well let my opinion be heard. Since Bob, Faye and a few others want some more lights, can I have the option to black the whole instrument panel except for the speedometer? Some competitors offer this.
-Colin
Speaking of which... I noticed that Honda, with it's 2001 Accord & Civic are now offering a little light on the "Auto" down power window switch. It's a great idea. On my Explorer I have lights on all my power windows and cruise control. As I've said, it's real helpful at night.
Bob
..Mike
..Mike
-mike
Now that I've had it, I can't imagine not having it. Especially with a baby and all the stuff I haul (my hands are always full).
Faye: I like the light switch idea. They moved my light back when my moonroof was installed (aftermarket), so I totally know what you mean.
Colin: one small change - leave only the speedo and the tach lit. Dim everything else (the driver can control this, of course).
Saab also has this, but the tach goes dim.
-juice
Who says Subaru can't hang with the big boys?
-juice
Ken
I'd LOVE to see a 330ix wagon, Passat 4Motion, Outback VDC, Volvo XC comparo.
-juice
-mike
When the VDC comes out, if they'll let us take one...
-juice