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Comments
Initial sales data seeks to selectively compare the H6 with Volvo Cross Country ($39,425), BMW X5 3.0i ($45,295) and Mercedes Benz ML320 ($40,195) all equipped similarly to the H6s, that is, with shipping, moon roof, leather package, cold weather package,and premium radio.
My order for the L.L.Bean yuppiemobile in white with rear spoiler, upgraded security system and cargo net is now a reality. At the tender age of 67, I can still have some yuppie urges, can't I? I chose the L.L.Bean model as I wanted the power of a six and felt the additional cost of $1,000 over a fully equipped "LTD" was a fair price.
So, now all can expect reports from Ken's brother on the VDC and from me on the L.L.Bean to be forthcoming!
Don
What did you actually pay? Bet it wasn't the 32 grand everyone's screaming about.
At 67, you're pretty much entitled to whatever you decide to drive. Hope you enjoy it.
-juice
MikeF
..Mike
Having started my car ownership when in college ('51-'55)with a red MG TD, followed by a Studebaker Champion convertible, a Nash Rambler station wagon, getting married and "graduating" to a Chevy, two Plymouth wagons, two Peugeot 505s (fabulous seats), an Alfa Romeo GTV-6 plus a '74 Alfa GTV for vintage racing (my son's turn), and finally, an Acura Legend before the SVX, I can honestly say NOTHING has been as trouble free as the Subarus. And, this includes the Acura which was second best!
So, with any luck, the L.L.Bean H-6 will continue the streak of enjoyable car experiences. I maintain with a good dealership on my side who know and truly like the marque, today's experiences are so much better than the "old days". Thank God "they don't build them like they used to"!
Don
Don
As for the VDC, I was only able to have it come on twice. once I was testing it on a bit of gravel road, and the other time I hit the gas while turning at a stoplight. Both times it was inobtrusive, and the car felt secure and stable the whole time.
Is the H6 model worth the extra money? That is up to the consumer. If you want all the trappings of a luxury wagon/utility, combined with one of the safest cars on the road (see IIHS test of the Legacy - same platform), and great performance in all kinds of conditions. Then this car will definitely fit the bill.
Personally, I am quite happy with the 2000 Legacy GT I just bought. With the 5 speed it is almost as quick, and the style and design hits my heart a little more than the more mature Outback, but if I had children, or dogs, or a cottage, the Outback H6 would have been my choice!
..Mike
..Mike
BTW I've got children, no dogs or cottage, but my wife's got a GT wagon (5 speed). I agree, a Legacy/Outback with 5MT and two adults is pretty quick. The "other" Mike (j/k paisan) found the GT wagon w/four adults to be underpowered (he also tows), and went with an Isuzu Trooper.
But that GT suspension.. mmm.
We're fortunate to have the luxury of many vehicular options. What would we talk about if there weren't so many great choices?
..Mike
..Mike
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Only one way to find out!
-Colin
Edwards: any more details? Where'd you drive one? How?
I'm beginning to wonder if I would have bought the GT had I driven one back in '98...
Well, I couldn't have hit the beach like I did, so I'm happy as is.
Hopefully we can try the VDC at the Fall Folliage tour, if SoA can supply one. That would be schweet!
-juice
Ateixeira, I work for Subaru Canada. We have had H6 models up here for sometime for evaluation and PR purposes.
This town hall website is a great medium for exchanging ideas with others who share similar interests and automobiles. I look forward to reading the comments daily, even if I don't always post comments of my own.
Please feel free to join the discussion!
What area do you work in? Marketing? Engineering?
-juice
17" wheels would look sweet on your GT. 205/50R17s would fit, maybe 225/45R17 if they make that size.
Get a 35% or 20% tint - looks sweet. I have 35% and wish I had gone darker on my Forester, though it may not be legal on a sedan. There's a dedicated Window Tinting topic under Accessories.
Sounds upgrades? What did you have in mind?
Suspension - aahh, let's save that discussion for the Mods topic. Sounds like you could become a regular there...
-juice
..Mike
..Mike
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Mike-
Y'know the fact that the wagon is called a Lancaster lends credence to naming the ST-X Canberra
Check those links and edit your post. Oh that's right we can't do that.
Oh no, another URL hound. Thanks for taking the time to write the HTML, it's much shorter.
..Mike
..Mike
I am going to look at the window tints. We used a black GT with window tints for a commercial here and it looked really good. Some of the other people who drive GT's here have the tinted windows and it makes the car look that much sportier and sleeker. I would like to get something really dark, but the darkness of the Canadian winters makes that a potential hazard, so I will go with something just this side of legal.
For sound upgrades, I meant inside. I got the premium speaker package and tweeters installed, and am getting a 180 watt CD player installed with a 12" sub in the trunk powered by an 80 watt amp. Nothing really special, but the standard deck that is in the car already sounds good, so the new stereo should sound great.
I think all that I will do for mods to the suspension is some tower braces and maybe a rear anti-roll bar. Something like that. I haven't really considered it yet.
Will the N. American model be that de-tuned?? Or is this just another one of those media assumptions? Subaru Team, any guesstimate on when there will be an SOA press release?
Dennis
-mike
Personally I'm betting on keeping my 2.5RS... but if there's enough performance for the right price, it still is empirically possible for me to upgrade to the new turbo.
-Colin
>>Subject: new "SVX" in AutoWeek
AW (9/24 issue) claims that Subaru will again bring a sport coupe to the US in 2003 with the SVX nameplate. It's supposed to be derived from the new Impreza platform, and they're considering several engines, incl. the H6 (which must mean it'll fit in the new Imp), the "280" hp 2.0l, and
several others. Didn't know we HAD several other performance engines to choose from... perhaps a new one on the boards? They also say it'll be
all-steel and of 'radical design' to counter recent charges of styling blandness. Target audience: Audi TT purchasers. A cabrio is also
possible. Hmm...<<
So, maybe the rumors are true after all!
Bob
Bob
Ken
Thanks!
Patti Mickel
Subaru Crew
PMickel@Subaru.com
few years. First a new Impreza, then followed
shortly thereafter with a new Forester and ST-X,
and now the (rumored -- but most likely true)
revival of the SVX. I can hardly wait!
The Autoweek article, about the future SVX,
mentioned that the styling would be "radical" to
combat criticism that recent Subaru offerings were
too bland looking. That could be good; or that
could be bad.
The original SVX was cursed with those strange
side windows. I know there were arguments to
support that design, but the plain fact is, the
public didn't buy the window design, or the vehicle -- mostly because of the window design. I'm hoping that Subaru has learned from that experience.
I'm hoping that if they mean "radical," they mean
-- besides being thought-provoking -- practical,
functional, and good looking. Chrysler has proven
without a doubt that thought-provoking, functional, practical, and absolutely stunning design design can sell to the masses.
I'm still hoping for a 4-door coupe, somewhat like
the Mazda RX7 Evolv concept vehicle, as I had
mentioned earlier. That would certainly be
"radical," yet thought-provoking, functional and
practical. The question is can they make it good
looking?
My only concern is, if they make it a 4-door coupe, can they still make a roadster, as is also rumored? Frankly, I doubt it.
I know Subaru has an American design team, besides
the the Japanese design team. I remember reading
in DRIVE magazine, when the new Legacy was
announced, an interview with a member of the
American Subaru design team. He mentioned most of
the design work for the Legacy sedan was done by
the American team, whereas the most of the design
work for the wagon was done by the Japanese design
team. I think the sedan is far more visually
appealing than the wagon. So, I say let the
Americans (where the talent seems to be) design the new SVX.
And, for those who think it is more difficult to
make a wagon look good, I say look at the Volvo
V70. It proves that wagons can be be real lookers
too.
Bob
I do agree that the new V70 wagons are pretty nice looking. Another good looking wagon, IMHO, is the BMW 3-series wagon. Small, but a tidy package nonetheless. The Saab 9-5 is also nice, but its steeply raked back rear window (for aerodynamic purposes) eats up quite a lot of cargo room.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
regarding wagon designed in japan, and sedan in US... are you sure about that? I recall reading it the other way around.
-- ash
I might be considered a bit of a devil's advocate here, especially given these problems, and though I still like Subarus quite a bit, I'm not going to hide the fact I'm very displeased with the problems I've had.
I do and continue to reflect my experiences here or in conversations with others about Subaru vehicles (good and bad), and though I don't like to mention failed fuel-injectors, on a car with 18,000 miles on it, it's not a good thing.
Ash Mishra
Obviously neither were designed independently of one another. My understanding is that both the Japanese and American design teams submitted entries, and the American sedan was chosen, as was the Japanese wagon.
Really what we're talking about is the rear of each vehicle. As we know they all share the same design from the "B" pillar forward. I just find the rear of the sedan to be much more appealing to my design sensibilities, than I do the rear of the wagon. I think the rear of the sedan is really very appealing (very European), and I find the rear of the wagon to be just "okay-looking," (very Japanese).
Re: the V70s rear lights -- I think they're terrific. The vertical top-to-bottom light design is an excellent design solution. All the rear lights can be seen whether the tailgate is open or closed. I like that much better than running them horizontally across the tailgate. I also like the high mounted (and vertical) CRV lights. They're much less prone to (costly) damage than lights mounted lower down.
And from what I've seen of the new Impreza, my opinion is that the rear (Japanese designed again??) is the weak link in the design. It's very bland, and not nearly as exciting as the front end.
Bob
When the Legacy first came out, at first glanced, I thought it was a hatchback due to its short trunklid and swooped back rear window. Perhaps this is why it look so sporty.
The V70's taillamp arrangement does look nice, but I didn't like the look prior to the '01 model. The CR-V's or the Focus ZX3's are not so appealing to me.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Personally, I like the way the Outback wagon looks; it is much better than the Volvo. Judging by the number of people who have stopped and talked about our car with us, we are not alone. I think we've sold enough cars to warrant a commission:-)
MikeF
I, for one, would hate to see the "L" Impreza dropped, and I would like to know (so I can steer my wife, who has an "L" Impreza and see's no reason not to get another, towards something else). Thanks in advance for your help
Frank
However, when you stop to analize why those car companies chose those design solutions, they really make sense -- from a "functional" standpoint.
"All" of the V70's lights can be seen whether the the tailgate is open or closed. That can't be said if the tail lights stretched out across the tailgate, as with Subaru and others. That's a real safety issue if you happen to be parked on the side of the road at night with the tailgate open. Yes, I know, you should have your safety blinkers on, but not everybody does that.
The CRV and Focus, because their tail lights are so high up, are much less likely to suffer damage in a rear-end collision. In case you have priced tail lights recently -- they're expensive!
Also, because these vertical lights "are" different, they really stand out, making them just that much more safer.
Bob
I still don't care for oval headlights. Recently saw (from a distance) a small car with oval headlights in the same blue as new Impreza on pix. I thought, wow, someone's got new Impreza... where, how? Came close -- it was Neon.
I'm praying to Subaru Styling Gods to make new Grand Forester with rectangular headlights, not oval ones.
Yeah, the Legacy sedan is quite handsome, but the wagon is nice looking too. I can't help but notice every one I drive by.
IMHO the V70 isn't nearly as attractive as its sedan counterpart, because the square back doesn't mesh with the round front design. I got a close look on Saturday during a test drive (see next post).
Loosh - why not a used '98 RS? You may even break even trading in your truck.
ruleman: congrats on the purchase. Nice to see folks joining us.
Greg: 235s on 17" rims sound sweet, please keep us posted!
The SVX could be really tasty. The TT is a bit overweight for its 225hp. If they can get the SVX at the same weight with 280hp, it'll eat the Audi for lunch. Hopefully the design will be as inspired, inside and out.
That may be why the Impreza won't get the full WRX level of power - to distinguish the SVX.
Roadster? Yum.
-juice
What I really meant was, that Japanese/Asian auto designers (from "all" the Asian car companies) tend to be have a hard time figuring out what "Westerners" want in auto design. This usually results in some really wacko designs, or some overly conservative designs. Historically they've had a hard time hitting the bullseye.
We've all heard how conservative, and bland Toyotas, and other Japanese cars - including Subaru look. I will admit, however, the new Celica, in my opinion, is a knockout. Was it designed by Toyota's American design team, or the Japanese deign team? My guess is it was their American design team.
With notably few exceptions, the Japanese auto manufacturers have not set the automotive design world on fire. The last Nissan 300ZX and current Honda S-2000, in my opinion, are among the few exceptions.
Of the Japanese brands, I think Honda/Acura generally do the best job of design. They are still bland, but are still better than any of the other Japanese brands. I think Subaru is starting to get their design act together. They still have a ways to go, but at least I see some gutsy stuff being done. I do think Subaru offers some of the best-looking wheels of any vehicle, anywhere. I especially like those on the WRX.
Bob
I like the the soft round front end meshing with the ultra vertical rear end. It combines excellent front end aerodynamics with the extremely practical "square" cargo area. If you think of it from a "functional" standpoint, it's an excellent, well thought out design. To me it's a perfect example of form and function working together.
Bob
But it looks like two designers weren't talking to each other. Maybe it'll grow on me.
I took notes so I'll write a full review, but the XC stuff ruins an otherwise good car. In both design and execution, BTW.
-juice
Bob
Sadly, the awful handling doesn't yield a good ride, either.
-juice
tend to look at the design of cars (or refrigerators, etc.) perhaps a bit differently from most folks who aren't in a design profession of some sort.
While I too have first reactions (positive or
negative), I usually try to hold them at bay until
I understand what the designer had in mind, and was that designer successful with the task at hand. Rarely do I approach a graphic design project as just "eye candy." There has to be a valid concept behind the final visual. The same hold true for any design project, be it a new car or a new electric toothbrush. Therefore my first instinct is to analize the results, then pass judgement.
That's how I approach my comments to car design.
Figure out what the designer had in mind first, and were they successful? Then pass judgement. So,
therefore I'm perhaps a bit less critical --
and a bit more open -- to somewhat controversial or radical design than most people.
To me -- even as a designer -- it is more
important if design/item "functions" first, than if it looks good. If it functions well, generally the looks will grow on me. That is true for most people as well.
Bob
We are discussing are two models, the IMO attractive V70 and IMO u-glee V70XC. I noticed on the 01 XC, the black bodyside molding rocker panel extensions (Edmunds' term) wrap around the fender wheel wells (I believe it's paint around the wells, not cladding like the OB); the 00 XC had them break across the wells, a la 00 Outback. Funny thing is that the <= 99 Outbacks have painted lower panels (cladding was introduced in 00) that wrap around the wells, like the 01 XC. Maybe FHI and Volvo traded designers. Personally, I prefer the 00 Outback where the cladding breaks cross the wheel wells.
I agree, vertical rear lights are a great design -- visible with the tailgate up, out of the way of rogue SUV bumpers and parking garage projections.
A minor but useful feature (probably inexpensive too) is the XC cargo mat is reversible -- if one side gets stained, flip it over (and stain it too). Remember, I'm the guy that pays attention to cup holders
/rant on
One last thing -- the <a href="http://new.volvocars.com/">Volvo website is awful. When will web designers get it? Macromedia Flash and other eye candy that don't make the site easier to navigate are worse than worthless, they interfere with the site and discourage its use. (SoA -- please pay attention -- you're heading down that slippery slope.)
/rant off
..Mike
..Mike