Subaru Crew - Future Models

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan: was that the Dakar concept car? Kind of a neat concept, I thought. There's room for both a true truck and a luxury hybrid in their lineup, I think. Just look at Nissan's success.

    Around here, RX300s seem to be the most common. People seem to buy E class Benzes (lobbyists?).

    Frank: I think they still sell a C160, with a 1.6l gas engine, in Europe. They also have small diesel engines.

    Now a V6 is standard in the US!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ken - we need your translating skills again.

    Subaru of Japan has just included a STi section to their "New Age" Impreza area. There are three models.

    I believe the new STi has a 6-speed tranny. Two of the three models have 17" wheels. Beyond that, I'm lost. I know there must be a huge horsepower gain. What are the other differences between the STi and the "bread'n-butter" WRX models?

    Help!

    Bob

    http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/sti/sti.htm
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As we all know, the new WRX is going to be Subaru's "mainstream" performance vehicle here and abroad. It's targeted to attract a wide audience. The WRX/STi, on the other hand, is to Subaru, what the M3/5 are to BMW, and the AMG models are to Mercedes - strictly hard-core, rare and expensive.

    Once the new WRX is "established" here in the USA, do you think we will ever see Subaru introduce the STi to other markets - specificly to the American market?

    Also, do you think Subaru will offer "factory" STi versions of the Legacy and Forester, down the road.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In NYC we get a lot of Range Rovers, Exploders, MLs...Heck we get a lot of everything.(24M people in the NYC Metro area will do that) I actually saw more Troopers in MD/DC area than I have in NYC.

    As for STi versions in the US, I wouldn't expect subaru to really bring any higher performance vehciles here for at least 3-4 years, they should take things slowly cause they shot themselves last time they tried to venture too far out of their niche market.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My guess is a variation of the STi will make it here. Probably a bit softer suspension and less power, but we'll get some form of it in limited numbers.

    I doubt the Forester will get an STi version. Maybe a turbo engine, though.

    The Legacy GT seems like the ideal platform for serious turbo power, so my guess is that would be second.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Bob,

    Actually the new STi makes no more HP than before, but it does more torque at low-end. It makes 275lb-ft (versus 260 for STi6) but the curve is fatter.

    Unfortunately, the whole curve is fatter too. Perhaps Ken will contradict him, but Joel Luk on the sti mailing list quoted the new STi as over 3150lb except for the RA (rally homologation) which was like 3080lb.

    To me same HP, slightly more torque down low and 300lb more weight is not a good combination. We'll see though.

    Anyway, as far as prospects of getting this car in the US-- well, that totally depends on how well the basic WRX sells. If it's a smash hit, like over 30,000 units per year (about 5x the 2000 2.5RS volume) then perhaps. Otherwise we won't get it.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Keep in mind those HP figures may be bogus to stay within the industry-set limits.

    I agree that weight is the enemy, though.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    re#1656

    "Unfortunately, the whole curve is fatter too."

    Should have been:
    Unfortunately, the whole car is fatter too.

    Hopefully whatever replaces well-engaged has edit functionality!

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    In Japan, Subaru offers STi "parts/accessories" for both the Legacy and the Forester. Only the Impreza gets a "from-the-factory-fully-equipped-sold-on-the-showroom floor" STi model (Whew!).

    As the BMW M3 was the first factory hyper-performance model to be sold - with the M5 following a few years later - I wonder if the Legacy is in store fore the same treatment? Perhaps with a turbo H-6?

    If the Forester were to get STi treatment, I would hope it would be offered in two directions: high-performance "street," and high-performance "off-road." Which leads to the next question...

    What about also a STX/STi? Or even a SVX/STi, if and when it debuts again? It fun to ponder...

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ..and would they call it an SPT here?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I don't care what it looks like or what they call it, so long as it moves!!! :)

    I'd buy a dog-dew-brown car if it performed.

    -mike
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    I know, but even in Germany the marque carries some cachet! :-) Most people there are zooming around in MCC Smarts. Besides, this is not Europe. I didn't get a MB so much for the exclusivity (although it was a factory; not a deciding factory though), but mainly for the safety and technological features that they offer. Your mileage may vary, of course. BTW, if you have the time, check out these crash test video clips. The first one is the most interesting.

    One day, I may just get a Subie! :-) I feel that the VDC H6 wagon is already a step in the right direction. Now, if only they would offer HID Xenon headlamps...I bet those of us in the gloomy Northwest would love it! ;-) Did I mention that there's a heavy rainfall warning issued for Vancouver today? When the rain (or snow) falls, the Subarus come out to play...Steven and Ross will probably understand

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ken, what about curb weight?

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Colin,

    Curb weights are:

    WRX STi & Sports Wagon STi: 1430kg
    WRX STi type RA: 1400kg

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: some of those have too many letters! Reminds me of the 3000GT VR-4... ;)

    Ken: I don't see how the brakes could be 17". They wouldn't fit inside the wheels.

    They are a bit porky.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    juice,

    That's what it says on the spec sheet. The wheels are 17"x7.5JJ.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru offers VDC only on automatic-equipped cars. The WRX automatic (Japan only?) gets VDC, but the 5/6 speed manuals don't.

    I wonder why?

    I would think, with all this rollover news, that all the SUV companies will be offering some sort of electronic stability control systems shortly. I know it will be available on the 2002 Explorer, several months after its introduction.

    I would also think Subaru would (or will) offer it on more models, including manual transmission models in the not-to-distant future.

    Bob
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    But hte pictures of the new WRX sports the 99 16" rims! It has to fit! Arrghhh!!! When i sell my OBS and get a WRX (after I get a big fat salary incresae!) I will keep either a 15 or my current 16" for autoX. 15" will not clear....most likely not. But will try anyways. So I hope my 16" will!!! I really like the new WRX rims. I wonder will we get crappy rims tho. You know how we always get d*cked around in terms of Japanese performance cars.
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/01forester.htm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ken: I was talking about the size of the brakes. I'm sure those are 12" or so. Typo, perhaps? Didn't mean to pick nits.

    VDC seems to be engineering for auto only. Maybe because the manuals are already 50/50, not FWD biased?

    Great article. Loved the moonroof shot, and the "
    Its 0 to 100 km/h time of 9 seconds is almost three seconds faster than the Honda CR-V". :)

    Thanks.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    You're on the trail, juice. The 4EAT is already a considerably more "active" AWD than the simple locking viscous coupler the MT models get, so to me it seems natural that the VDC would only be available with an automatic as well.

    For example, the current (non-VDC) 4EAT distributes torque not only through wheel slippage but also through internal sensors. The VC doesn't do that.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    juice,

    Yep, I knew you were asking about the brakes. The spec sheet lists them as 17". I mentioned the wheel size in my last post as a reference.

    It's got to be a typo.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Here's some more stuff on the STi:

    - STi model gets the same viscous center diffy with a 50:50 bias.

    - The STi type RA gets the driver controllable center differential with the same control dial we've seen before.

    - Here is a graph comparing the torque of the new and previous STi models.

    - The intercooler even has a driver operated switch that will spray water onto it.

    - Click here for a graph that compares the new 6-speed gearing (red) vs. the old 5-speed (blue).

    - Click here for a photograph of the brakes. The caption mentions an alumnium caliper and 17-inch(!?) rotor.

    - Finally, a diagram that shows the higher roll center (red = new, blue = previous STi).

    Ken
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Ken, thanks for taking the time to dissect Japanese site, translate it, and insert links. I'm sure it took a while. Great stuff! I saw a 22B last December at Motorweek with all the goodies you describe (albeit 5sp). Amazing machine. We were allowed to sit in the car and evidently someone hit the intercool water spray switch. Later, with the hood open, a Motorweek staffer started the motor so we could listen (driving wasn't allowed). Water sprayed from the hood-mounted nozzles onto the windshield and engine compartment. This startled the staffer sufficiently; he quickly shut off the motor (he was unfamiliar with the cockpit and couldn't locate the switch). One i Club guy drove down from Canada to see it. See i Club photos here. What an awesome piece of machinery.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Ken- Great job on that post. Your contributions to this forum are very appreciated.

    -Frank P.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    My pleasure, folks. Just let me know if there's anything else you want me to dig up.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Mike,

    Nice photos. I saw the Motorweek episode on TV and taped it as well.

    BTW, power-folding side mirrors are pretty standard in Japan for many vehicles due to the tight parking spaces and roads. It's pretty common on narrow local streets for people retract their side mirrors as they squeeze by oncoming traffic. Imagine having to get out of your car to do that everytime!

    Ken
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    You're welcome, Ken. I've read descriptions of garages in Japan where the process is something like: fold mirrors, open garage's vehicle door, walk into garage, open human door from garage to house, back car into garage, swing driver's door into opening created by now-open garage/house door, egress vehicle, close driver's door, walk through garage/house door, and close it. Now that's tight! We're really fortunate to have so much space on this continent.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As with the others, I too appreciate your efforts!

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You're going to see LL Bean Outbacks in LL Bean stores. I just heard there is one already in the LL Bean store in Tysons Corner, in northern Virginia.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I have em on my trooper. They are awsome! I love to fold em when someone behind me on the highway has his brights on, also great for parking in lots and squeezing through streets. Finally in 2002 the Caddy SUV will get them.

    -mike
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    I have them too and love them! But, I don't have the headlamp glare problem since my interior and exterior mirrors are electrochromatic (autodimming).

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • juzsumguyjuzsumguy Member Posts: 5
    You can choose either 16" or 17" wheels on the type RA. As Ken points out, 17" wheels come with the 17" calipers, the 16" come with 16" front and 15" rear calipers. Yeah, I'm not sure how the brakes fit in there either.

    But allowing the choice of 16" wheels would allow "normal" owners a wider selection of snow tires, anyway.

    BTW, conversion factors easily available at

    http://www.metricusa.com/Conversion_Frameset2.htm

    so 373 n/m torque equals 275 ft/pds, and the metric horsepower (ps) of 280 equals 276 "american" hp.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    PS SEMA starts tomorrow. Keeps your eyes peeled, hopefully they'll show a WRX and more!

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Love that controllable center diffy. Seems like perhaps the single best feature.

    Also, the 6 speed has nice, close ratios to keep it in the power band.

    Could those brakes be 17"? For scale, check out the wheel lugs. Subaru uses a 100mm spacing for those. I'm not convinced.

    Bob: thanks for the info. Time to hit Tysons Mall! The wife will love the idea. Shhh - noone tell her about the H6! ;)

    paisan/Drew: no offense, but those wide-bodies need 'em! :) They are trick.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Where is it this year?

    I think I am going to wait until we get a little more imformation on the re-vamped Impreza line-up. I can get an L wagon for cheap right now, but if the '02 has enough improvements, the money saved might not be worth it in the long run.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is in Las Vegas.

    Bob
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    Just one more thing that will break...
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Not unless you wack them with the pillar! :-) They've been offered in Europe (and in Japan for Subarus) for many years now, for my vehicle anyway, so I'm confident in the reliability. No issues after more than one year of daily use.

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Then you go back to using your hands to move em... They do work manually (at least on the Trooper they do)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's how my Forester's mirrors work.

    Honestly, though, never needed to move them.

    -juice
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Mine don't work manually. If you try to force them, they will break. Power folding is standard in Canada, but optional in the US (where you can manual folding mirrors).

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • hiker6hiker6 Member Posts: 10
    Interesting H6 marketing: the VDC is featured in Scientific American ("you can take it for a test drive but not for a spin"), and the LL Bean is featured in Audubon magazine ("introducing the latest all weather gear from LL Bean"). Definitely niche targeting.
  • abhidharmaabhidharma Member Posts: 93
    I saw both the VDC and the LL Bean featured prominently in "Dave" magazine.

    Randy (wrong name, but I do like boxers)
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Drove the Acura MDX last night -- can't believe it, but it feels like and even RATTLES like a truck! Felt like I was in a Chevy fullsize, or maybe even a Suburban. Needless to say, this is not a TL with 4WD; it's more reminiscent of the Mercedes SUV. Nicely appointed, unbelievably wide, great workmanship, but there's just too much hardware (I guess with the third seat) in there not to rattle. This was a demo with 2,400 miles on it already. Dealer says they have 100 orders, so it is definitely hot.

    As for me, sure was fun to get back in my OB 5-spd. and enjoy driving. No way around it, SUVs are just not fun to drive -- at least on-road.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I toss my Trooper around almost as easily as my subaru XT6. It's also tight and no rattles. If I put some street tires on it, and gas shocks, it would handle even better. It handles well @ 100+mph and curvy country roads....

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Just don't try curvy country road at 100+mph in a Trooper!!! :(o)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I already did that. Handled like a dream. I guess I'm just lucky?

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Another term besides "lucky" springs to mind....
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    You're saying this thing can corner? Hard to believe -- but I haven't tested it, like you have.

    Techie question -- is there a way to turn up the heat on the seat warmers. With my Outback, they're lukewarm at best, and this was after one fix of a loose wire (they were not working at all before that)My wife's Outback works nicely -- you could almost roast marshmallows on those seats
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