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Comments
I've been gone for while and I seem to have missed a lot.
That number is with EVERY option including the trailer hitch, gate bar, security upgrade, everything. I'm not sure where this dealer got the number (MSRP? or close to it I'm sure) but thats what he is going to have on his lot for after a the initial few months of introduction. I was not aware all those numbers had been released but I thought I would post it for what its worth. I'm not going to say who the dealer is because initially he plans on putting it on the lot for $35,000 even......with "dealer prep options" (yea right!). Lets just say if you are in the St. Louis area you can probably figure out who it is.....
Yes, the Escape/Tribue does look promising. The reviews on it so far have been very positive and I do think it will make a big dent in Subaru, Honda and Toyota sales. I kind of expect that since Ford/Mazda have the data from existing models to know what consumers are looking for. I'm looking forward to see what the response will be from Subaru as well as Honda in future models. Things can only get better!
I read somewhere that Ford was having initial production problems with the Escape due to the transmission. Has anyone heard if that's been cleared up?
The problem with the tribute is that it's FWD natively. And according to carpoint.msn.com, the DX is only available with the 130HP inline4. (did you look under the hood? or perhaps it was an LX) 4WD is a $1200 option. You also forgot to mention that all the v6 models have an automatic transmission. Additionally, a Tribute ES (think Forester S) starts at $23,500 with AWD/4WD.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Forester get a power upgrade though!
-Colin
People have a budget in mind, but when it comes right down to making a choice it will be what feels right. For me the Subaru fits the bill.
I will be looking strongly toward the VDC and LL Bean models when they come out. Although I would rather stay under the $30k mark, I find Subaru wagons extremely appealing, far more than the VW or Audi (or whatever) competitors.
Here's why: I am an outdoorsman at heart and I expect to pay higher dollars for new and improved technology. If I want the improved technology and stability of the VDC, I will need to shell out the cash for it. That is just the way it works. Yet, what will make me choose a Subaru over a Passat or Audi is the Subaru will not leave me stranded when I make my way to and up a mountainside. With the VW or Audi, I just can't see taking them off-road. The darn paint might get chipped and I might get some mud on the floormats! If I was the type that wanted to stay on the freeway, I would buy the Audi or the Passat.
When I think of Subes, I think of reliability and the sure footedness and utlity they offer. If I can get some luxurious amenities, a nice sound system and more power, all more reason to make the purchase.
As an aside, my wife just spent a week in San Francisco and she saw more Outbacks and Subarus on the road than she could bat an eye at. Currently S.F.'s median housing price is scaling to the $500k+ level, thus, I term the city as pretty darn up-scale. More and more technologically-minded dot.com entrepeneurs and brighter and younger business-minded people are finding their way there. One could say it is "yuppiedom" or "suburbia". The people that reside there could drive the Audi, VW, Saab or anything else (they have the cash --- if it is not all tied in stock options), but it seems like they are chosing the Subarus. So, whether Subaru wants to take sales and their cars up-scale or not, it seems like they have already arrived in some parts of the country.
-Leif
P.S. I will be flying from LA (where I reside) to Seattle this weekend. I will be keeping a close eye on the Subaru population there. I expect high volumes since I am a Washingtonian
Subaru has the superior AWD system. The Tribute/Escapes (T/Es) have a on-demand system which works much like the CRVs -- meaning FDW until slippage occurs, then 4WD engages.
What I like about the T/Es is that the basic packaging is just about perfect -- the overall size-to-roominess ratio. Like I said, it's 2" shorter than the Forester, but quite a bit roomier. And... the price is a knockout.
Juice, I agree, Honda has more to worry about with the CRV than Subaru does with the Forester. However, both are going to suffer. Same with the RAV4, Grand Vitara, Cherokee, etc.
Bob
Ken: you sure it wasn't the new Cherokee, with those production troubles? Jeep pushed the intro back a year, to next summer.
Colin: how could I forget? No manual tranny with the V6, and the 4 banger with the stick is underpowered and heavy. I doubt it'll handle as well as the Forester, either.
Ford should offer a V6 "SVT" edition, with a bit more power, 6 speed, 17" alloys. Then watch out.
Leif: you remind me of Lucien, who bought his '99 Outback over a pricier Passat because the Passat seemed "too nice" for his uses. Subaru owners aren't pretenders - they actually practice all those outdoor activities in their ads.
Your house price comment reminds me of my basic rule of thumb for cars: your car should cost only about 10% of the price of your house. That means SFers should spend $50k for a car. So the Subie is a bargain to them!
Bob: v1.0? LOL! My Escort was a first-year car, but it felt more like a v0.9 Beta test!
The Escape is a lot wider and probably taller too. Still, I agree with you on the packaging - it's proof that a vehicle doesn't have to be ungainly in size to be practical.
OK, perhaps I'm a bit too optimistic for Subaru. After all, they did let Muller go
Forester has 2 model years left before the redesign, and perhaps it will get more power. H6? Turbo 2.0l from Japan or UK? Supercharger from the ST-X? I'll take any one of those.
-juice
-juice
I managed to dig up the link. I don't remember where I first saw it, but here it is:
http://www.blueovalnews.com/escape_trans_problems.htm
first -- I'm from St. Louis and would really like to know who is the dealer that is pricing the new OB-6 so dearly. I just hope it's not a certain dealer located in WG. I just "disappointed" my dealer by purchasing a standard Outback 5-speed instead of waiting for the 6-cylinder. Reasons? I didn't want to spend the money, didn't want an automatic. And actually, he wasn't too disappointed -- he had a plethora of 5-speeds, and I don;t think those are real salable in comfortable old St. Louis.
second -- to respond to a comment on how many Subarus another writer was looking forward to seeing in Seattle -- you will be awed. As I mentioned in an earlier post, when we were up there (Seattle and Portland) recently, it was wonderful to see the streets full of Outbacks, Foresters and Legacys instead of F-150s, Caravans, Expeditions, Cherokees Grand and otherwise, and all that other big iron that does nothing but make the sun go down early for everyone unlucky enough to be caught behind them.
third -- I also got a new company car, an Acura TL recently,with the nav. system. To this 50-something, it's really cool -- though it did show me driving right through Busch Stadium, over second base, a few weeks ago.
Seattle this weekend. I will be keeping a close
eye on the Subaru population there. I expect high
volumes since I am a Washingtonian
Lergeson1: I live in Seattle and I can vouch that we have mucho Soobs here. We have high housing prices (especially in the City) and all the dot.com (Microsoft included)$$. I draw the same conclusion as you do about San Franciscans.
To others that ? Subaru's upward movement, I can assure you that I wouldn't have seriously considered an Outback prior to 2000. In fact, many dealerships in the Puget Sound area could not keep 2000 Ltd's in stock back in Feb when I was buying. Why, because those that were considering VW's (yes, they were lowly before the current Passat...not that long ago, HELLO?), Audi's and even Volvo's, were attracted to the Ltd (especially) and bought! Subaru made major changes to the interior and to a lesser extent, the exterior. I see no reason why the H6's won't continue the success. I agree with Juice that real world pricing will put the Subaru as even better value than the AWD Passat.
To the individual that exclaimed that reliability is not a big draw for those in the market for an upscale wagon....HA HA...I mean...LOL! Those that I know in this market are even more concerned (and discerning) about this as they are shelling out considerably more bucks than they would for a Taurus/Sable wagon, as an example.
I think that Subaru has learned from their mistake in the early 90's about moving to fast upmarket. They are not about to repeat.
Stephen
Holy crap! Homes are fairly cheap here in Wichita... a nice 3 bedroom with full basement can be had for $85k-110k. With your formula juice, I would be way overspending on an Impreza turbo. ($25k-28k they say...)
-Colin
According to Juice's formula, I need a Land Cruiser, to match my house price... ;-(
2nd It's a FORD. Ford is known to have bad tranny problems especially on it's small to midsize cars (Can we say Escort and Tarus) I too had an escort that eventually was ruined by AAMCO and bought by their insurance company.
Fords have the worst build quality. My buddy drives a 2 year old contour V6 that he babied since day 1 and has had nothing but problems, not major ones, but on week 1 the glove box kept falling open, and hasn't closed properly since. He has replaced front brakes numerous times...
You couldn't give me a ford... if you did, i'd promptly sell it back to the dealer for 50% off the sticker.
-mike
-mike
-mike
Fords aren't that bad. I've a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Bob
Bob
So, Ford, Chrysler, GM: build your Forester-killers, and bring 'em on!
[NOTE: Americans can make great cars - they made my Outback in Indiana.]
But I have compared the build quality of a legacy/outback to a forester/impreza (built in Japan) and it's not bad. the japanese models are a bit better, but I respect the subaru half of the Indiana plant.
-Colin
And yes, the base models do have drum brakes, but on the Ford it's NOT EVEN AN OPTION!
-mike
ash
-mike
http://www.new-impreza.com/
The more I see it, the more I like it.
Bob
I have no problems with the sides, trunk and taillights.
But for $25k-27k US, it needs more than 220HP... it needs much better suspension and tires than the RS, better seats... Better paint would be nice but ever since the conversion to powder based paint that's pretty much a universal complaint of mine.
-Colin
-Colin
-mike
1) Major electrical gremlins. None of these were fixed properly even after visiting 3 dealers.
It would stall (go completely dead) at 70mph on the highway. Happened 4 times and was scary as hell. Random and could not be reproduced.
It would stall if you drove through more than tiny bit of water (sometimes). Dealer could never fix properly. Although one dealer seemed to make it better for a while.
It burned turn signal bulbs on all corners (4 total in 55k miles). No clue???
Ford "Premium" Sound
CD player would freak out and not play or give back the CD and just make whirring/buzzing noises. Totally random (about 10-15 times) and could not be reproduced.
The right front speaker would sometimes cut (20 times?) out and then return at random times.
2) Engine problems. Never solved by 3 dealers.
4 (yes 4) O2 sensors (3 under warranty)
3 throttle body problems (before 55k miles)
1 replacement (after warranty)
1 cleaning after warranty
1 cleaning under warranty
Strange loud engine noises (not the same as the "moosing" sound accociated with the 2.5L) starting at 30k miles
Strange engine vibrations at 55k miles
Check engine light (not O2 sensor related) 2 times that required reset. Never solved.
3) Transmission. Traded it in.
Very harsh shifts at random times
Might have been slipping slightly at 55k
4) MPG
3200lbs, 2.5L V6, 170hp, no AWD and only 24mpg on the highway.
On the other hand........
I currently drive a 1990 Ford Taurus with 140k+ miles with good old pushrod Vulcan V6. I got it a few years ago FREE with 90k miles. Original transmission!!! Miracle of miracles!!!! Other than age related problems (oil seepage of about 1qt every 3000miles, replaced water pump 2x, replaced alternator 2 times, AC required work and conversion) its been a dream car. It seems to require about $200 a year to keep running and thats just fine with me. I would really like to see it hit 200k but I'm not sure it will make it quite that far. After a while its just fun to see how far it will go. Sometimes they just screw one together correctly I guess. By the way, it still gets almost 30 MPG on the highway at 60mph. Just amazing.
Do I bash Ford? Yes and no. I'm angry about taking a loss on the Contour but happy that the Taurus has been a loyal family hauler for so long.
I wonder how the 5 door hatchback version will look. I think it will take some time for me to get used to the front end though. Right now, I don't really like it either. Then again, I hated the then new E-class goggle-eye look when it first came out in late '95, but now I own one of them.
One thing I don't understand is why they said that these cars are waiting for delivery for North America. I thought the new Impreza was only supposed to arrive for MY2002. Did I make a mistake somewhere?
Drew
While on the subject - I'm one of those weekend warriors who could use the open pick-up for the home projects - the old VW Rabbit pickup would work OK for me. Any promise of a future similar Subaru offering? I strongly suspect that they have similar vehicles for other markets.
But then again, I'm POSITIVE the 2001 2.5RS is perfectly normal and will be arriving at dealers *very* soon.
-Colin
However, that engine might be a 2.0L turbo instead of the 3.0L six cylinder.
-Colin
I agree that the '01 Impreza should be completely "normal", as indicated '01 Impreza brochure.
Would love to see more power in this vehicle
and it sounds like some of you might have some information.
Sorry for not being up to speed on the lingo, but can you tell me what the H-6 is?
-mike
On an unrelated note, I'm having PIAA 1000 (instead of the CATZ MSX) series driving lights installed on my wifes 2k OB Ltd. to combat what I think is a overly wide and diffuse lighting pattern. They will be for use with the low beams and extend the lighting area approx. 15-20' further. They will be aimed as not to offend people. I'm parital to the "E-code" pattern. They will be installed next to the licence plate.
Bruce: I'd wait and see. Your '98 is already a nice ride, so wait until you can get the H6 or a turbo so it's a significant step up.
The ST-X has the green light for production, according to rumorville. Expect it in MY2003 or so.
So, how do you ex-Ford owners really feel?
LHD WRX? My, my. Who cares what it looks like? Hope they don't make it too "soft" for the US market.
Colin: given you're a true enthusiast, who even goes as far as autoXing his main ride, I'd say yours falls under the hobby category, and you are therefore exempt from the 10% rule.
-juice
And while I did test drive a Passat sedan, I'm glad I picked the Subaru. I just installed a hitch on Friday, and the harness is pre-wired, and there is a plug for you to get the wiring to where the hitch is. Piece of cake.
The Passat is not rated for towing at all. Where's the utility? Aren't these supposed to be SUV alternatives, in a way? Isn't the frame strong enough? I'm sure you'd have to splice electrical wires to connect the harness, and that would suck. To top it off, the roof rack is pretty flimsy.
Advantage: Subaru.
-juice
Drew
-juice
My brushguard has sturdy skidplate which protects the radiator and oil pan, I think. MB designed everything to be tucked up and within the frame rails, so for North American spec vehicles, I don't believe there are any (or a minimal number of) skidplates. Austrailian spec MLs have locally fitted heavy duty plates though for driving in their environment - Outback - though.
Oh BTW, have you seen the skidplates (actually it's more like a skid tray) that cover the entire underside of the WRC car? It really takes a lot of
punishment on those jumps. I imagine that their forerunner Foresters should have similar underside trays as well.
Drew
The plastic cover starts at the bumper and stretches past the oil pan. It's got good coverage, but it doesn't provide any real protection except for water and mud.
The rear diffy protector is the only functional skid plate Subaru offers. Everything else is vulnerable, and the front push bar is cosmetic.
-juice
-Colin
-juice
FWIW, oil changes on MB cars are done using a topsider pump. Removing the drain plug from underneath is unnecessary and rather messy. This is why my skidplate doesn't really interfere with any basic maintenance tasks.
Drew
Would appreciate hearing from you.
Thanks,
Bob