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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Fire engines and ladder trucks have a recommended lifespan in service of 15 to 20 years maximum. Prohibitive maintenance costs, and scarcity of parts, make older engines simply not worth the expense and downtime. It's really not about the "miles", it's about the motor hours and how these engines are used. Lots of man hours go into even routine maintenance and checkouts.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,278
    In the news here today there is a story about a firefighter “museum” (really the hobby of a guy I know casually) that is selling two fire engines, a 1958 and a 1971, because the 150 visitors a year they get aren’t enough to pay the bills.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    explorerx4 said:

    Why does this need to get sold?
    https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/d/newtown-1979-seagrave-pierce-arrow-fire/6784179824.html

    Some humans see fire trucks on craigslist and ask Why?
    I'm dreaming of a happy new year and ask,
    Why not go out, have fun,
    Drive safe, come home,
    And feed the cat.
    Now go!



    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    Aside from being a rat rod, I've never heard of one of these(White pickup truck).
    https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/d/chicopee-56-rat-rod-v8-auto/6782700313.html
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    explorerx4 said:
    Aside from being a rat rod, I've never heard of one of these(White pickup truck). https://westernmass.craigslist.org/cto/d/chicopee-56-rat-rod-v8-auto/6782700313.html
    That’s a pretty cool toy. But what could you possibly do for body parts? I am not a fan of the missing hood look amd would want to enclose the front, for example.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,278
    I don't think White ever made a pickup, so I'm guessing that would be a custom job using a rad shell from one of their bigger trucks and maybe a cut-down cab. A hood and everything else would need to be fabricated.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, that looks like something cobbled together.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Stopped raining today, I was going to be lazy, but I decided to take advantage of it:



    Car started up and ran fine, even seemed to be shifting smooth. Turned some heads and got a wave from the driver of an old Alfa GTV.

    I also noticed a little blowby again, after not having produced any the prior two drives. I don't know if that's a sign of one thing over another.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    So whats the blonde thingy on the dash, Dennis the Menace? Wrong color hair for Bob's Big Boy or a Hula dancer. :p
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    It's a 60s era bobblehead, a hockey player, something I bought when I was young. I later saw some movies where people had them in cars, around the time I got the car, I stuck it on the dash (on the speaker grille). It has been there since. 2019 will be 24 years with this car.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    I’m sure you have told us before, but is that the original paint?

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    That's a fun thing. When the car first changed hands in 1970, it received a coat of paint - apparently marine paint. I've taken it to a couple shops and detailers, and that's their conclusion, it isn't an automotive paint. It is a hard paint, but not the most glossy. I am not sure if the California sun (or at that time, smog) had harmed it, or if the seller was just being weird. The color match is virtually perfect, but the paint will only shine to a certain amount, as seen in the pic. It gives the car a mellow patina.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Well, mellow goes with the PNW demographic, right?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    fintail said:

    That's a fun thing. When the car first changed hands in 1970, it received a coat of paint - apparently marine paint. I've taken it to a couple shops and detailers, and that's their conclusion, it isn't an automotive paint. It is a hard paint, but not the most glossy. I am not sure if the California sun (or at that time, smog) had harmed it, or if the seller was just being weird. The color match is virtually perfect, but the paint will only shine to a certain amount, as seen in the pic. It gives the car a mellow patina.

    Marine paint is very durable as you might imagine. I've seen car engines painted with it that held up remarkably well. The really good paint can run around $150/gallon.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    And a great added benefit - no barnacles!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2019
    Very true. And if you use anti-fouling paint, no more spark plug replacement! :D

    You know, if you had a steady hand, a lot of patience, some good marine paint + additives, and an excellent set of brushes and various grades of wet/dry sandpaper, you could probably do a decent paint job on an old car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    For a nearly 50 year old paint job with a lot of miles on it, it has held up well. No fading, no runs, no real orange peel, no bubbles, only minor chips and a small area with faint cracks. Whoever applied it did it right, I'd just like to know the story as to why. There are a few chips on sharp door edges etc where one can see the original paint, which is identical in color. As it is now, I wax it yearly and wipe it down with a detailer every time I drive it, and the shine remains the same. It's enough to look old, in a good way - not a high gloss clearcoat shine.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't like clear coat on classic cars.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Neither do I, it can really be an anachronism. The soft patina of the car is something that keeps me away from seeking paintwork (not to mention the expense). It looks really good from 10 feet, and it has kind of a time warp look - I think it is closer to what cars actually looked like back in the day.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If you repaint it, everything else on the car will suddenly look dull.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Chrome especially, which would be more $$$. If I was going to get into money pit restoration, I'd get into the engine first, then some interior freshening. But I am generally pleased with cosmetics as-is. No worries about getting a chip etc as it is, I just want to drive it.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You better keep that paint stuff toned down Fin, or next thing you know the King county EPA will be knocking at your door B)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    I you like Cadillac's, cover up at least one eye, but to me it sort of, kind of, somewhat could have(ok out of disclaimers) worked.
    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a25726123/1975-cadillac-eldorado-shooting-brake-for-sale/
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,335
    well, being a caddy, it makes you think hearse. I kinda like it. But the vinyl roof looks nasty, and the real problem is, the bump up at the front edge of the addition. if it was smooth, so a true shooting brake, would look a lot better.

    actually, now that I think more, reminds me of some vintage pickup caps!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Yeah, looks more like a 2-door hearse. Not 'sporty', like I'd expect a shooting brake to be.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    Cool story Fin.

    That Caddy.... two thumbs down. As @stickguy said the roof line is strange.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    edited January 2019
    Definitely an odd duck! I think that, for the price he's asking, the seller would have about 175 photos and a much warmer attitude. Apparently he thinks that "huge" original cost for the conversion and its rarity should equate to a similar value today.

    Reality is cruel.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,278
    It looks like they used the rear half of a mid-70s GM midsize wagon for the rear roof/glass/hatch parts and the insides.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The color "brown" may say it all B)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    For the type of person who collects things like a chicken with two heads....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    The 90s are coming
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,335
    time capsule car, but dang, 121K for a Yota!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, that's the Mount Everest of Supras, right there. Most of them have already been rudely molested to produce rather amazing HP.

    This car, the Land Cruiser FJ40, and the 2000GT coupe are the Big Three of Toyota "classics".
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Toyota needs to show this to their current stylists.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    I was still curious about that gullwing from a few weeks back. In the comments, there was this note:

    12/23/18 at 6:00 PM
    Gjorvik (The Seller) 274

    I am happy to report an amicable conclusion to this sale has been reached between the owners and the high bidder for it’s sale. It is the same appeal expressed early-on for its lack of serious restoration that resulted in the sale.
    In retrospect our near record dialog revealed two conversations. An strong initial appeal by some for unrestored cars. Subsequently a perception of worth totally measured by TODAY’S values and recommissioning costs.
    The first is, plain and simple, a personal choice. The 2nd is caused by refusal to accept likely future value as a legitimate part of today’s decisions. Happily, on this instance the buyer and seller are at peace with the result.
    Thank you all.
    Gjorvik (aka John R. Olson)

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah, so what's been said here is that the car is not worth what it sold for, but one day it will be worth it because the value will go up. After all, everything old only goes up and up in value, right---cars, real estate, stocks?

    We have a joke in the classic car world when someone pays too much for a car: "Oh, no sir, you didn't pay too much---you just bought the car ahead of the market for it".

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Sounds like someone had too much money. I'd put my fortunes in that 100K Supra first.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Me, too. You don't have to restore the Supra so all your costs are known already. You could easily spend 1/2 million to bring the Gullwing up to show quality like that Supra is. And originality brings a premium. There won't be an original piece left on that Gullwing when you finish it.


  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Is that the same Gullwing seller who was called out a fool for letting the high bidder go?
    Somebody on this forum posted that the seller lost his Golden Moment in life which may never come around again!

    But it was clear that the seller had lost nothing when that auction ended.

    At end of auction the seller still had a collectible Gullwing.
    And now the seller has let the Gullwing go for a Golden Moment which didn't tick away after all.

    Monty Python had it right all along!
    Always look on the bright side of life,
    Always look on the light side of life.







    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think so. All this is actually saying is that the Gullwing owner sobered up and cut a deal when he realized the reality of the situation. The "amicable conclusion" means he lowered his reserve. He took the money on the table and ran with it. Good for him. BAT allows you to negotiate with the highest bidder off line, but not with the other bidders.

    Not so good for the buyer if he paid anywhere near his last bid, however.

    If the seller rejects the last bid, the last bid is no longer valid. You go back to square one in negotiation.

    I suspect that the bidder's friends also tried to sober HIM up.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    The Supra may be "ahead of the market" a bit, but I think the market for an example of that quality will be there, and once there, it won't fade. A new generation is finally coming to light.

    For the gullwing, the seller indeed lost nothing either way, as he got it for free. Dynastic wealth also works for cars.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Yes a new generation is lighting up and Geein me the boak.




    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Look at the photos and then read the description!

    https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/bmw/3-0csi/2118683.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Beverly Hills Car Club, always good for a chuckle
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2019
    With a potential of a nice restoration being worth in the $75K range, buying shares in this German Ferrous Oxide mining operation for $20K puts you way deep in the hole from the starting gate.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    >> needing only light restoration.

    I've looked at hundreds of used cars over the last three decades, and all but two were in "excellent" condition.

    This ad follows the standard script.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,335
    Would love it restored. Or nicely maintained. That one might not survive a media blast or acid dip.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Agreed. I think it would basically disintegrate. The thing about rust is that it isn't a "something". It's the absence of something.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    I wonder where they source their cars. Doesn't look like what I know of southern CA patina, I think sitting in a lake for 40 years might look better than some of their inventory.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think they basically stock junk that owners simply couldn't sell to anybody and chose to dump it on the dealer for cheap. Their inventory can be "interesting" but most of it is just too far gone. BHCC is basically a Museum of Neglect.
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