Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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Comments

  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    There may be 802.11 wireless coverage at the show, so if you have a wireless card for your laptop you can get a high speed connection right of the show floor. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the auto industry, but this has become a standard thing at the various computer conferences and shows. At a recent Mac conference, a colleague was able to communicate with me in real time (he was at the show, I was across the country in my office). It was pretty cool. Man, if I had a spare PowerBook with an iSight camera to loan out, you guys would be all set. Maybe this is a good incentive for Bob to buy one!!

    Craig
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hoping to get a new G5 shortly. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting thought. Maybe for the show floor. I imagine it will be open, since the press days overlap.

    At a minimum I'll upload some highlights at night from the hotel. Post and share pics, stuff like that.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    juice-
    I believe most hotels now a days provide high speed access. I remember at the Marriot, when I was in AZ, they offered high speed internet access.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hope so. In your room? That would be great.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Yup, connection available in the room I stayed :)

    -Dave
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Congrats to Juice & Bob on representing the Crew. SOA certainly knows how to pick them! Kudos to Edmunds for providing this arena to begin with.

    Steve - good luck on Gotcha Day. Have a safe trip!

    Ed - Hope everything is/has gone well!

    Mark
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Congrats all around !

    What a nice way to go into Thanksgiving week...

    Plenty to give thanks for here.

    -juice, bob: Is the emphasis to be comments on new models, desires for future models or some combination of these and other topics ?

    We've provided tons of feedback via the Suggestions for Subaru forum. (I'm still 'jonesin' for a 7-passenger Subaru ala the MPV, as discussed at length before...)

    -brianV
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    <this list is imaginary, but made up for humor purposes>

    paisan's top 10 list:

    * H12 diesel with 600 lb-ft
    * 700 lb-ft for the next model year
    * 800 lb-ft the year after that
    * class III towing for his race car trailer
    * 15mpg while towing
    * did I mention torque?
    * all the content of his SVX
    * seats that fit someone "paisan sized"
    * a TOD-like display for VTD AWD on all Subies
    * oh, and more torque

    :o)

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Brian: I'm very much looking forward to the 7-seater, so don't worry, that will definitely be something I bring up.

    I'm curious about what the Crew, collectively, thinks of hybrids, diesels, CVTs, VTD vs. plain AWD, things like that. Subaru is small so we know they can't do it all. What single new technology would we like them to focus on the most?

    Also, what new product would we like to see? A B11S-like super coupe? A B9 Scrambler roadster? A minicar slotted below the Impreza? A full-size sedan? Bob's back-to-basics off roader? What if we had to choose only one?

    I want the roadster, but I recognize I may be in the minority.

    Finally, what about content, what is most important? Cruise with an on button on the stalk? Lit buttons everywhere? Express up/down windows? DVD players? Navigation? HIDs? All these things come up, but again which are most important?

    Think about these things, we don't necessarily have to answer now. In fact I think we'll take a week for each of those questions, and poll everyone. Then maybe chart and rank our desires. Sound like a plan?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Having never been to one of these events before, I wonder what the accepted attire will be?

    &#149; Coat-'n-tails? (as in being anointed by the Queen)

    &#149; IBMish suit? (most likely, but not much fun)

    &#149; Perverbial dark blue blazer/gray slacks/tie? (for cocktails?)

    &#149; Business casual? (shirt/tie, no jacket, no class)

    &#149; Casual? (no tie, but at least shower ahead of time)

    &#149; Shorts? (could be chilly in Detroit in January)

    &#149; Speedo? (definitely chilly in Detroit in January)

    * Neked (aka: naked; most definitely chilly in Detroit in January)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Little black dress and high heels, if you believe the suggestion from last night's chat. Yeah, it got a little whacky!

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    You'll love the G5. I got to test a pre-production unit this summer, and it knocked my socks off. It's the first Apple product in a long time that will keep up with the latest and greatest Intel/AMD hardware in the forseeable future. If you get a dual processor unit (highly recommended), nothing else can touch it for speed. I ran some numerically intensive benchmarks on G5, P4, Xeon, and Opteron machines, and the G5 was at or near the head of the pack in all tests.

    They just came out with a dual 1.8GHz model that is $500 cheaper than the dual 2GHz model. It looks like the best deal to me, and that extra $500 can go towards a 20" LCD (also a great product).

    I've been angling for a G5 of my own at work, but haven't been able to pull it off yet. Hopefully sometime in the spring.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    My main feedback to Subaru would be to emphasize performance more and make the Outback less frumpy. Thankfully, they're already doing both things!

    I think somebody needs to take a long hard look at the Baja and either address the many issues and shortcomings, or can it. I'm sure it absorbs a lot of resources that could be put towards other vehicles, like an STi Legacy for instance.

    I would love to see more applications of the H6, especially with a manual transmission. As I've mentioned before, I get the same or better gas mileage with my H6 Outback compared to my previous H4 Outback. Given the extra power and refinement, I really think upgrading to the H6 is a no brainer (other than pricing considerations). If they can make it cost effective, the H6 should be used more across the board.

    Paint on the Impreza lineup is horrible, you just look at it and it chips or scratches. This could be improved a whole lot. I'd gladly pay more for my car if the paint were more durable (and the per car cost would likely be cheap).

    The US WRX should be getting standard 17" wheels and tires like the rest of the world.

    That's all I can think of right now....

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree with your thoughts, however, we have to look forward, to things they're not already doing. Baja is on an outgoing platform.

    We could talk about the next Baja, if there will even be one. Again, that's something we should look at. Few, if any, of the regulars among Subaru Crew members bought a Baja. It might even hurt our credibility to focus on a product that flopped on the market.

    It's 2005, there is a turbo in every model available. The new Legacy and 7 seater are here. They're past planning stages already. Now what?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've heard from a lot of folks that this is an issue. Why the Impreza, and not other Subies?

    Bob
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Juice-

    Just an initial response to your questions:
    -Hybrid AWD vehicle. The success of the Prius shows that this is the way for manufacturers to go for an environmentally friendly vehicle.
    -I'd love for a roadster (B9) to come out, but figure Subaru will probably go with the B11S sedan instead. It's more in line with what peolpe want.
    -I used to be one of those pushing for an in-car Navigation system, but with all the handheld units available I'd rather see Subaru focus elsewhere. Possibly Air bags/curtains all around for safety.

    I think you will have to set up a poll site, otherwise you and Bob are going to flooded with suggestions.

    Mark

    BTW-most hotels now have the fast internet access Dave mentioned in the rooms.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that we will see something (photos, sketches, anything) that will show where Subaru is heading. If for no other reasons just to get our input.

    I'm talking about the new crossover, and any other future product; and not just for "looks," but for possible features and content.

    Bob
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    -juice: I see your point on the Baja, and it's well taken. We don't want to squander our credibility. On the other hand, perhaps the on-going discussion regarding this troubled member of Subaru's stable indicates persistent interest in the concept.

    If so, then perhaps there are opportunities for Subaru to be had, but they have to execute correctly.

    I dunno.

    They went out on a limb with the styling, targeting a price point that was way high with all the content, neutered the engine and killed the real Switchback, making the bed too small to be usable. Oh, and the payload weight limit is laughable. What did they expect to happen ?

    I mean hindsight, and all that, but can they really claim to be surprised ? They all but abandoned the concept car, which a lot of people were pumped about.

    Make a Baja Sport with the real Switchback, 200hp, a 1200# weight limit and sell it for $18k real-world, and you will move enough of them to make it interesting.

    Add an upscale model with 240hp and some additional content (5 seat for starters) for $23k, and you have yourself a nice little franchise.

    -brianV
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    technology:

    - get variable valve timing on all models first. it's well established and has large benefits for emissions, economy, and performance. current cam-phasing vvt should be upgraded to a technology that allows for variable lift as well.

    car line:

    - I have no idea what they can build that will sell. Perhaps a budget, sporty small coupe. It's a big market and a reasonable competitor would move a LOT of units. Dominating the market would be really tough though. And it would be tempting to compete on price by ditching AWD from the lowest trim... which I don't know if that is a great idea for the brand image.

    Content:

    - Express up/down windows on both front doors are a no-brainer. Remembering to offer LIGHTLY contented models with the toplevel powertrain is KEY. This is not Audi, this is not BMW. This is Subaru, and some consumers will want no frills with the best powertrain.

    -c
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    yeah I agree with you colin about advanced variable valve timing on all models.

    But I don't think ditching AWD would be a good idea at all for a low end smaller than impreza car. It'd be removing one of the pillars that subie is based on.

    Here's my 2-cents:

    Everybody wants to buy a japanese car because they're reliable and typically get good gas mileage.

    Subaru has some good engines, but I think the cars are generally too heavy. Look at the 2.5 l impreza: it shouldn't take a 165 hp engine to make that compact car mildly exciting. Subaru should be able to do it with a N/A 2.0. This concept applies down the line with the other models.

    Why are subies heavy? Because of the AWD system and heavy gauge structural steel for safety. I realize that the new legacy/Outback have reduced weight by some 30%. Good! Do more of it! Can the AWD system be made lighter? And can the car's structure contain more aluminum, or some other metal with a high strength to wt ratio? With a lighter car, it'll feel alot more sporty and get better mileage. Also make the AWD system have a rear bias. Models with an automatic tranny drive almost like FWD, unless slippage is occurring.

    And as you said some time ago--more differentiation between Legacy and Outback. Make the Outback more off-road ready. Maybe think about an active chassis similar to Volvo. Onroad and Offroad settings which change the ground clearance significantly. Oh and before Bob says it--More towing. And dual-range tranny and self-leveling suspension. Or, get rid of the Outback all together and use the forester for this.

    Oh and don't forget Direct Injection from Isuzu for across the board.

    Whew! ;)

    Eric
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the lesson with the Baja is you have to execute your concepts properly. A good idea alone is not enough.

    AVCS, then double AVCS. Lots of merit in these because you're talking about improving your engines in the volume sellers. Kia's new engines are getting it, can you believe that?

    Direct Injection, I like it. Maybe as a general request for more efficiencies.

    Should there be a WRX coupe? B11S would be a low volume halo car, an SVX replacement. What about a volume segment coupe?

    Light content with the powerful engine, Amen to that. My top personal pick. Gimme an XT with unpainted bumpers and no climate control.

    Sorry, I won't even suggest dropping AWD. Not in this market. In extremely fuel economy sensitive markets, sure.

    Another point: No Traviqs. In other words, absolutely zero tolerance for rebadged GM cars. I shiver at the thought.

    Weight loss is already something they're working on. The Forester was 80 lbs lighter, the Legacy lost even more weight. They should continue that, sure. The Impreza was the last car they intro'd that was heavier than its predecessor.

    I see subtle hints at making VTD more widely available.

    Differentiate the Outback, definitely. Right now the entire OTFC (On the Fence Club) is cross shopping several Subies. Let's have them appeal to a wider variety of folks. I like the WRX, Forester XT, and Legacy GT, but I can only buy one of them, right?

    I'll leave the towing and payload stuff up to Bob, you can bet that will be covered (have we discussed anything else lately?). :-)

    Dual range and adjustable suspension. We've got quite a list to sort through. I don't think we can hit them with all of this, so the polls should help us narrow it down a little.

    -juice
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    I'd love to see Subaru with a hybrid that will comfortably seat four ....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, I'm glad Bob and I are not the only ones interested in a hybrid. But we will poll everyone. Maybe right here.

    Give me some time, I'll chart out a few general questions and maybe bring up one per week. I'll give people a chance to "nominate" entries, so we don't overlook something.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I will enthusiastically second VVT for all models. I think R&D money is well spent on increased use of aluminum on these cars. THe top of the market is already doing this (XJ and A8 being extreme examples), but I think itis critical for lightness to offset the weight of AWD, a feature they must keep.

    I think taking the Impreza slightly upmarket would be desirable too, with a version of the very promising 2.5t. The car needs some major interior help if it wants to keep pace with current offerings from Acura and the upcoming R32. I see that the new Leg will get passat-like lighted switchgear, go ahead and cut production costs of it by providing it everywhere. The Legacy looks to be a big leap ahead in interior style and design; Forester could use more, and Impreza needs it badly. Think A5 Golf/Bora for those that have already seen it. Or upcoming S40.

    At that point it is not unreasonable to slide a small hatch underneath. Heck, they'll need it when the Colt kicks WRC bootay next season. Add to the mix the upcoming LWB 7 seater and either a roadster or the B11, and you have an attractive lineup that captures buyers from college graduation to retirement.

    -loosh
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Uh-oh, the infamous hatch debate starts again.

    Just remember, VW sells 5 times as many Jettas as compared to Golfs. At current Impreza sales levels, that would amount to...a hatch as popular as the Baja. ;-)

    We can poll that, too. Maybe ask what bodystyle should Subaru do next, off the Impreza platform. Coupe? Hatch? Roadster? Maybe even a tall microvan thingy?

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    What a great chat last night. I'll also take my small claim to fame as the person who tipped us over the 32 mark!

    The news of juice and Bob going to Detroit courtesy of Subaru is great. Such a small gesture is generating such buzz among a loyal owner community. You can't get better bang-for-the-buck than this!

    Juice -- I'm going to send you a check for a deposit on a Legacy GT wagon. :-)

    Paint: Actually, it's a Forester/Impreza thing. You should see the front edge of my hood. It's pockmarked beyond any touchup paint. I think the Legacys must be painted here in the US as they don't seem to suffer the same fate.

    Colin: Express windows up and down on both front doors -- YES! That's one small but often used feature on my wife's Jetta that I wished Subaru would put on their vehicles. Why have this feature on the passenger side too? It makes it so easy to roll or down all windows with one hand. Pull up on the front switches, get them going and them hold the rears. It's one of those small things that mean a lot.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, Ken, but I might cash that check! LOL

    No requests for a passenger eject seat? What about amphicars? :o)

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    really has me smiling. What a great crew to be around. You folks are a gold mine of warmth, committment and fun. We (SOA and me) are lucky to have you. And - I know that Juice and Bob will do us proud. AS I said in the chat - they don't have to worry about the dungeon so I'm sure they'll share everything they can.

    Patti
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    Thought I would weigh in too...
    1) Would love to see an AWD hybrid in the line up. I'm still not getting anywhere near the mileage I hear reported by some.
    2) I would like an option of a good sounding quality sound system - factory installed. (Yes, I know you can get quality systems for cheaper in the aftermarket, but some customers would prefer not having some installer yanking the interior of their brand new car apart.)
    3) Sportshift as mentioned by others on this board.
    Ron
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    AVCS, all engines, double AVCS top-o-the-line engines

    VTD standard on all ATs

    AT = 5sp sportshift

    MT = 6sp

    full size spares standard in all models

    standard integrated boost gauge into existing gauge cluster on models with turboooooo

    optional trip computer thing on all models

    -Brian
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Member Posts: 158
    Congrats again to Juice and Bob. We are well represented indeed. A definite tip of the hat to Edmunds for the arena and to Patti for pulling the right strings.

    I am on board with most of the suggestions above. I think diesel technology should be mentioned as well. Unless you see hybrids taking on this role of economy without the loss of get up and go. I know I'll be taking a mpg hit when I get my Legacy next spring.

    -Ian
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    I recently returned from a week and half vacation in Alaska. Subaru's are in abundance in Juneau - Foresters, Outbacks, old Loyales, I even saw my first Baja "in the flesh". There weren't quite as many in Haines but come to think of it, there weren't that many cars either. (Less than 600,000 people in the state with over half of them in Anchorage. I guess people can spread out a bit.)
    It was kind of reassuring to see that so many Alaskans are Sube owners.
    Ron
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    You guys should interview the CEO, or whoever will be doing the unveiling of the GT.

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice list, Papa Bear!

    Subaru has 6% market share in Alaska, vs. 1.1% in all of the US.

    Some preliminary info I have so far:

    Tuesday, January 6th - Dinner, Guest speakers
    Wednesday, January 7th - The Auto Show

    I expect there will be a Q&A session, at least. The day of the 7th is open to interpretation, because the public auto show is not until the 10th. I imagine Bob and I will be crawling all over (and under) the GT.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    1) reliability, i check consumer reports, online forums and friends for info on this category.

    2) safety, great crash scores and bumper bash scores by IIHS ( forget the us gov scores ).

    3) awd, subaru is known for its great awd and continuing to offer it in all lines make a great statement by subaru in the belief of awd.

    4) value, low cost for a great feature set. dont try to compete against audi/bmw, grab the 'lower end'. make sure the options are great not cheapo. like the optional forester sunroof is incredible.

    5) powerful engines, if i had only the NA engine i would not have gotten past the above 4, nothing worse than a slow car ( someone referenced those low end jags with nice features that are dogs ).

    these 5 things sold me on the forester and will continue to hold me as a subaru customer. i will live with the rest of my complaint list but those 5 are show stoppers.

    next my list of wishes...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I drove home to Boise from Anchorage last April with my "new" '97 Outback (I'm an ex-Alaskan and knew of a good used deal up there).

    The bun warmers felt good here this morning cruising on errands.

    Steve, Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    SUBARU CREW CHIEFS ESCAPE "DUNGEON"
    -- Two Chiefs Penetrate Great Wall of Fuji --

    Washington, D.C., November 11, 2003 -- The Edmunds.com Subaru Crew, the coolest Subaru club in the world, announce the escape from the dungeon by two of its crew chiefs.

    Apple Juice AJ the Heavy Weight Lover, aka "juice", clawed his way out in his 1998 Forester Project 2.5RS, aka "Sandy", with Subaru's standard AWD and a lot of throttle. He commented that he got 25.875 mpg while doing so.

    "It was great", said juice. "With regular fuel, too."

    Bob "need a nickname" Holland designed a quick costume that he used a camoflage to sneak by the FHI Imperial Guard. He had been locked up because he discovered that, in actuality, all American Subarus were rated to tow the same 1800kg as the UK models, without trailer brakes, and that SoA lawyers lowered the rating because they "though it would be funny".

    He refused to comment except to say that the colors of the steep dungeon walls clashed with the rest of SoA headquarters design. He also offered to redesign it.

    For more information on the Subaru Crew, visit our site at http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/

    About Edmunds.com Subaru Crew, Not Yet Incorporated.
    The Subaru Crew is a member-owned club hosted by our wonderful Edmunds.com Town Hall Hosts. Headquartered in CyberSpace, the Crew enjoys several hundred members and recently hosted a record 39 member live chat.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Sorry for the confusion. Just had to do it. Couldn't be known as a car I'm not interested in buying any more (love to drive it though if anyone wants to loan me one). ;-)

    That and it adds some coherency with the other forums I sometimes frequent. Sorry Hosts I meant to say I only post here, ever, honest. ;-)

    Hope you like the new name.

    -Ian

    p.s. ROTFLMAO! Juice that's hilarious. Very well done indeed.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I am going to agree with Colin but add a little to the list, retained accessory power, this is not a big cost item little more than another relay, also illuminate all the switchgear, instead of just the drivers window switch.

      Cheers Pat.
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    What do you all think about a rear bias for the AWD across the board? You get the sporty driving characteristics of RWD without losing control in inclement weather.

    Not balanced you say? Well riddle me this: why is the engine in the front of the car--OK OK easy to access.

    Maybe for performance models or across the board--whatever you guys feel--put the engine behind the front wheels for more of a 50/50 weight distribution. Others already do it--Acura NSX, Infiniti G35, Honda S2000 etc.

    Otherwise keep the 50/50 AWD split but move the engine more midship.

    Maybe move it for STI models and/or the B11S...

    Thoughts?

    Eric
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    Steve,
    When I bought my OB, I thought I wouldn't be using the seat heaters much. Boy, was I wrong!
    Now, I can't imagine NOT having them.
    Ron
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Good one juice. I'll have to work on a nickname. :)

    Bob
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    @ Juice the heavy weight lover and bob "needs a nickname"
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I guess I read too many Euro mags. Where the Bora gets roundly trounced by Golf, there is no hatch stigma, and 206GTi, MeganeSport, and R32 all threaten to bury WRX.

    -Loosh
    who still thinks Hot Hatches are awesome.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I agree with Ian - ROTFLMAO. My family is starting to look at me strangly because of my frequent outburst of laughter while on the computer!
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I like it! I like it a lot!

    Patti
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Juice, Bob, Edmunds hosts, Patti... we need to come up with a special hosted chat, via wireless laptop & whatever other necessary technology at your collective disposal, direct from the floor of the Detroit show, with special guest hosts Juice & NoNicknameBob... how 'bout it?

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Do you think our host here could figure out how to do it? I'd do what I can to help - even if I don't go to Detroit. Let's figure out a plan? Maybe during a "down time" period for NoNicknameBob and Juice (we wouldn't want them to miss any of the activity). Let's noodle it for a bit?

    Patti
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