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Comments

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,465
    abacomike said:

    abacomike said:

    thebean said:

    Say what you will about Hondas, but I’ve never had a problem getting a good trade-in amount when I change cars. The dealers seem to want them for their used car lots, even my ‘02 Civic, traded in 2015. It went right on their lot and was gone in a week.

    Hondas retain outstanding value when compared to most other brands. Toyota and Lexus are other brands that retain excellent value when it comes time to trade or sell them. When I was in the car business, I always put more money into a Honda, Lexus or Toyota trades because I wanted those brands on my used car lot.

    I also put extra money into “clean” trades with low mileage. But when it came to Hyundai’s and Kia’s, my hands were tied because of their poor wholesale value at the auctions. I have not kept up to date on current trade values of the Korean manufactured cars, but friends in the business inform me that there is still a reduced wholesale value at the auctions.
    How did the Hyundais and Kias resale compare to the domestics like Ford, Chevy, Dodge?
    Whenever I took in a Hyundai or Kia as a trade, I first called several Hyundai and Kia dealership’s to see if they wanted to buy it - they never bought s used car from me because even they didn’t want it. So I usually ended up wholesaling it at the auction. Many times I couldn’t even wholesale it unless I took a big loss on it. This was 10+ years ago and I don’t think it has changed that much over the years.
    So you’re saying that the Hyundai/Kia cars had worse resale value than a comparable Ford or Chevy? That’s an eye opener.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,139
    When I thought of Pontiac in those days I thought of pretend performance cars but really cheap, unreliable vehicles. Buick might have been boring, but at least rock solid reliable.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    edited September 4
    suydam said:

    When I thought of Pontiac in those days I thought of pretend performance cars but really cheap, unreliable vehicles. Buick might have been boring, but at least rock solid reliable.

    Where did your experience have you viewing Oldsmobile?

    I saw Pontiac as performance from the 60s. Sitting in the rear of a Catalina convertible on the main street of an Indiana no stoplight country town with the car skewing from the torque of the 389 with 3 deuces under the hood made me hopeful to someday enjoy a vehicle like that--not quite in as dumb a manner as this guy in his home village in east central Indiana on a Sunday. The driver was my freshman college buddy's brother who owned the car--he was not in college.

    Oldsmobile was a premium vehicle for fun-loving folks. My high school teachers had owned some Oldsmobiles that I liked. I graduated in 1962 if anyone's counting.

    Buick was a doctor's car. Not quite a Cadillac.

    In this case I believe GM or the government at the time thought Buick could compete with lexus' market. Nope. Didn't work.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    aba - I dunno. I sure see a lot more Hyunkia's on the road these past few years and during the last decade their quality and reliability ratings have increased quite a bit. I know several people who have re-bought Hyunkia's after owning a prior one. But the early ones sure left a lot to be desired. If you think way back, people were leery of many Japanese brands, but the product greatly improved.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,139
    edited September 4

    suydam said:

    When I thought of Pontiac in those days I thought of pretend performance cars but really cheap, unreliable vehicles. Buick might have been boring, but at least rock solid reliable.

    Where did your experience have you viewing Oldsmobile?

    I saw Pontiac as performance from the 60s. Sitting in the rear of a Catalina convertible on the main street of an Indiana no stoplight country town with the car skewing from the torque of the 389 with 3 deuces under the hood made me hopeful to someday enjoy a vehicle like that--not quite in as dumb a manner as this guy in his home village in east central Indiana on a Sunday. The driver was my freshman college buddy's brother who owned the car--he was not in college.

    Oldsmobile was a premium vehicle for fun-loving folks. My high school teachers had owned some Oldsmobiles that I liked. I graduated in 1962 if anyone's counting.

    Buick was a doctor's car. Not quite a Cadillac.

    In this case I believe GM or the government at the time thought Buick could compete with lexus' market. Nope. Didn't work.
    Whoa, those days were long ago. I’m talking the 90s and 2000s, before they made the decision to drop Pontiac. I had no views of Olds at all, as I never knew anyone who owned one. Oh except for my mother in law’s 1980s Olds Cutlass. What a piece of junk that was.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 24,917
    I saw a Kia Stinger today. It looked beautiful. Too low to the ground for me...and really a younger guys car....but, it looked really nice in black.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,465
    edited September 4
    suydam said:

    suydam said:

    When I thought of Pontiac in those days I thought of pretend performance cars but really cheap, unreliable vehicles. Buick might have been boring, but at least rock solid reliable.

    Where did your experience have you viewing Oldsmobile?

    I saw Pontiac as performance from the 60s. Sitting in the rear of a Catalina convertible on the main street of an Indiana no stoplight country town with the car skewing from the torque of the 389 with 3 deuces under the hood made me hopeful to someday enjoy a vehicle like that--not quite in as dumb a manner as this guy in his home village in east central Indiana on a Sunday. The driver was my freshman college buddy's brother who owned the car--he was not in college.

    Oldsmobile was a premium vehicle for fun-loving folks. My high school teachers had owned some Oldsmobiles that I liked. I graduated in 1962 if anyone's counting.

    Buick was a doctor's car. Not quite a Cadillac.

    In this case I believe GM or the government at the time thought Buick could compete with lexus' market. Nope. Didn't work.
    Whoa, those days were long ago. I’m talking the 90s and 2000s, before they made the decision to drop Pontiac. I had no views of Olds at all, as I never knew anyone who owned one. Oh except for my mother in law’s 1980s Olds Cutlass. What a piece of junk that was.
    I owned a couple of Oldsmobiles which I bought from my father. Super cheap (family discount), super low miles (under 30k).

    The 1982 88 model was absolute junk. It was a sharp looking coupe which got compliments but it fell apart to the point of the wheels literally coming off. The detuned 305 was a dog to boot. I sold it at 75k miles after I noticed rust holes in the trunk.




    The 1991 88 model was a much better car. Had the 3.8L motor built before they started using intake gaskets that dissolved. It nickeled and dimed as it aged but nothing major. It was running perfectly at 127k miles when the frame rotted out.




    I think they axed Olds because it was too much like a Caddy and as I recall the sales in the last few years were REAL bad. Something like 300,000 total units when other lines were selling millions.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    edited September 4
    suydam said:


    Whoa, those days were long ago. I’m talking the 90s and 2000s, before they made the decision to drop Pontiac. I had no views of Olds at all, as I never knew anyone who owned one. Oh except for my mother in law’s 1980s Olds Cutlass. What a piece of junk that was.

    My more recent experience with Pontiac was through the fact that Buick and Pontiac shared the H body in the leSabre and PA with the Bonneville. Yes, my earlier impressions of Pontiac were a few years before that.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,543

    abacomike said:

    abacomike said:

    thebean said:

    Say what you will about Hondas, but I’ve never had a problem getting a good trade-in amount when I change cars. The dealers seem to want them for their used car lots, even my ‘02 Civic, traded in 2015. It went right on their lot and was gone in a week.

    Hondas retain outstanding value when compared to most other brands. Toyota and Lexus are other brands that retain excellent value when it comes time to trade or sell them. When I was in the car business, I always put more money into a Honda, Lexus or Toyota trades because I wanted those brands on my used car lot.

    I also put extra money into “clean” trades with low mileage. But when it came to Hyundai’s and Kia’s, my hands were tied because of their poor wholesale value at the auctions. I have not kept up to date on current trade values of the Korean manufactured cars, but friends in the business inform me that there is still a reduced wholesale value at the auctions.
    How did the Hyundais and Kias resale compare to the domestics like Ford, Chevy, Dodge?
    Whenever I took in a Hyundai or Kia as a trade, I first called several Hyundai and Kia dealership’s to see if they wanted to buy it - they never bought s used car from me because even they didn’t want it. So I usually ended up wholesaling it at the auction. Many times I couldn’t even wholesale it unless I took a big loss on it. This was 10+ years ago and I don’t think it has changed that much over the years.
    So you’re saying that the Hyundai/Kia cars had worse resale value than a comparable Ford or Chevy? That’s an eye opener.
    Yes.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,543

    suydam said:

    suydam said:

    When I thought of Pontiac in those days I thought of pretend performance cars but really cheap, unreliable vehicles. Buick might have been boring, but at least rock solid reliable.

    Where did your experience have you viewing Oldsmobile?

    I saw Pontiac as performance from the 60s. Sitting in the rear of a Catalina convertible on the main street of an Indiana no stoplight country town with the car skewing from the torque of the 389 with 3 deuces under the hood made me hopeful to someday enjoy a vehicle like that--not quite in as dumb a manner as this guy in his home village in east central Indiana on a Sunday. The driver was my freshman college buddy's brother who owned the car--he was not in college.

    Oldsmobile was a premium vehicle for fun-loving folks. My high school teachers had owned some Oldsmobiles that I liked. I graduated in 1962 if anyone's counting.

    Buick was a doctor's car. Not quite a Cadillac.

    In this case I believe GM or the government at the time thought Buick could compete with lexus' market. Nope. Didn't work.
    Whoa, those days were long ago. I’m talking the 90s and 2000s, before they made the decision to drop Pontiac. I had no views of Olds at all, as I never knew anyone who owned one. Oh except for my mother in law’s 1980s Olds Cutlass. What a piece of junk that was.
    I owned a couple of Oldsmobiles which I bought from my father. Super cheap (family discount), super low miles (under 30k).

    The 1982 88 model was absolute junk. It was a sharp looking coupe which got compliments but it fell apart to the point of the wheels literally coming off. The detuned 305 was a dog to boot. I sold it at 75k miles after I noticed rust holes in the trunk.




    The 1991 88 model was a much better car. Had the 3.8L motor built before they started using intake gaskets that dissolved. It nickeled and dimed as it aged but nothing major. It was running perfectly at 127k miles when the frame rotted out.




    I think they axed Olds because it was too much like a Caddy and as I recall the sales in the last few years were REAL bad. Something like 300,000 total units when other lines were selling millions.
    I owned more Oldsmobile cars than any other brand - even more than Mercedes. I loved those cars.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,543
    berri said:

    aba - I dunno. I sure see a lot more Hyunkia's on the road these past few years and during the last decade their quality and reliability ratings have increased quite a bit. I know several people who have re-bought Hyunkia's after owning a prior one. But the early ones sure left a lot to be desired. If you think way back, people were leery of many Japanese brands, but the product greatly improved.


    Could be - as I said I have heard from people still in the car business that they find wholesale values lower than equivalent cars. I do not have firsthand knowledge, however.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Say aba, looks like you skirted most or all of that Dorian mess. The Abaco Bahama pictures look almost unreal. So awful. On a lighter note, is your new nickname "Hurricane" - that's bad! Seriously though, that devastation looks like it was attacked by a formation of B-52's. I think the casualties will be much worst than the first reports unfortunately, but hope I'm wrong.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    edited September 4
    driver100 said:

    bwia said:

    @driver100, you mentioned buying a mainstream car instead of a G80 or E400. Here is a candidate for your consideration, the 2020 Cadillac CT5.

    Cadillac lists the base-model CT5 Luxury as starting well under $40,000, and that includes destination charges.
    For that price you get the rear wheel drive 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine producing 237 horsepower and 10-speed automatic transmission. Other standard features include a wide range of driver-assist systems, with forward collision alert and automatic emergency braking being among them. A 10-inch touch screen and keyless push-button start are also spiffy standard-issue tech features.
    If you want a bit more power, definitely expect to pay a bit more. Also, Cadillac was keen to point out these prices do not include vehicles equipped with Super Cruise.


    There are a few things that make me hesitate, when it comes to Cadillac. First, GGs experience. Next is they depreciate a lot. Sales haven't been great either....my guess is that makes them harder to sell or trade-in.
    I will say though, for $40000 it wouldn't matter if it depreciated more than average. It would make a good Florida car for us.
    Still, hard to switch when all of our Mercedes and BMWs have been flawless....why would I risk changing.
    That price btw competes with Lincolns now....get a premium car - at least a premium nameplate - for a bargain price.
    Impala is a depreciation leader....is that Cadillac really an Impala under the skin? And what is with that rear side window?
    I like your method @driver100 ! Stick with what works. Show some loyalty for great products and support. God knows, there's plenty of examples of horrible products and awful customer support with cars here on these forums. If something never fails you, it makes sense to stick with it. It has worked wonders for me with Audi's. Why would I venture out into the unknown with such great success (or good luck)?
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,543
    berri said:

    Say aba, looks like you skirted most or all of that Dorian mess. The Abaco Bahama pictures look almost unreal. So awful. On a lighter note, is your new nickname "Hurricane" - that's bad! Seriously though, that devastation looks like it was attacked by a formation of B-52's. I think the casualties will be much worst than the first reports unfortunately, but hope I'm wrong.

    First of all, now you all know how I got my “handle” (abacomike)! Very few people have ever heard of the Abaco Islands before this terrible hurricane. I used to go offshore of the Abacos to deep-sea fish on fishing boats. Great fishing villages and part of the Bahamas.

    I have a feeling that many, many deaths will be reported over the next few days.

    We dodged a huge bullet 79 miles off our coastline. If not for the grace of God, we could have looked like those islands. Photos of the Hurricane Andrew aftermath in South Miami and Homestead looked just like that.

    I was truly shaking as that hurricane stalled just off our coast - if it had moved just 25-50 miles further west, we would have been devastated.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    sda said:

    Speaking of Stelvios, a friend of my mine is starting lemon proceedings on his wife’s 2018.

    Is anyone happy with their Alfa Romeo? Great road test reviews and dreadful ownership reports.
    Now that's a headache I don't need to add to my life.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • ventureventure Central PAPosts: 1,387
    driver100 said:

    I saw a Kia Stinger today. It looked beautiful. Too low to the ground for me...and really a younger guys car....but, it looked really nice in black.

    I saw a red one today. The first one I have seen. The guy was making a lot of noise with it.

    2020 Ascent, 2018 Legacy 3.6R, 2015 Crosstrek

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    I guess I should stick to my recent impressions of BOP which is what I suggest others do with their complaints and criticisms of GM...

    My memories of Pontiac as a wide track fast car with engines with 3 2-barrel carbs and IIRC 2 4-barrel carbs feeding fuel to a hungry engine are still what shaped my image.

    I had two Oldmobiles--not recent, but 1977 Cutlass Supreme which was Superb and a 1980 which was not as satisfying. I think Oldsmobile died a slow death.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    edited September 4
    berri said:

    One of my kids was looking at the closeout deals on the Toyota Highlander. Very good incentives where she lives. She road in a new Kia Telluride that one of her friends just bought. After comparing, test driving and pricing both she ended up with the Telluride. She felt the Kia was a nicer car with more features and the latest tech. The Kia dealer also didn't have all that Toyota dealer add on packs and inflated doc fees. Obviously, all this varies by the local market and individual's preferences, but I wonder if the upcoming Highlander will have some strong competition when it comes out. She noted that the prior Kia Sorrento, which is the predecessor to the Telluride has a pretty good CR reliability history. She was always a Toyota loyalist until now. Personally, I'll be curious how it a works out down the road.

    I'd be curious how it works out too. My experience is while you might not catch everything on a test drive, the cheapness comes out in a 3 year stint. Not to mention, the wear and tear on something "cheap" tends to show faster as the cheaper product tends to age much faster.

    The '16 Optima we returned last Saturday felt very old at less than 35,000 miles, however, it was reliable, and didn't break down, and only needed a tow truck when a tire blew out. Kia Road Side Assistance sucked too, taking well over 2 hours.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    John Rock was turning Oldsmobile around when the industry started tanking with vehicles like Intrigue and Aurora. I think Pontiac had slipped too far already with too much gimmicky stuff. Logically, Olds made more sense domestically than Buick because it was more distanced between both Chevy and Cadillac. But GM was finding life saving new business in China where there had been longstanding admiration of Buick. The decision then became a no brainer.

    I think trucks, SUVs and China kept GM alive because without them I don't think it would have been affordable for the gov to keep the company afloat. NOTE: let's please no restart debate on the bailouts. That's done business. I'm just talking financial feasibility and affordability.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    edited September 4
    I heard mention when I was browsing for the CT5 discussions of Chevrolet ending up with electric vehicles only. That's a no go for me. If anything, the low environmental impact engines that are 4-cylinder are better choices. However, Impala goes away at the end of the quarter. Malibu struggles on with no refresh that was scheduled in 21 or so and is ended in 24. They may as well shoot it now.

    I can't buy the medium vehicle in Malibu with the efficient engine and add on the nice stuff to get the full emergency braking, e.g.. Only the low speed braking is available. In the lower model I get a CVT. To get a 6-speed I have to take the hot 2.0L 4-cylinder. I am not a hot driver. The toughest load my Malibu sees is the mountain climb in the Cumberlands north of Knoxville on I75 with the air conditioning on. I don't need a 2.0 L for that.

    I feel the company has left me. I learned this for sure reading about the future of Malibu and Impala...

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028

    I heard mention when I was browsing for the CT5 discussions of Chevrolet ending up with electric vehicles only. That's a no go for me. If anything, the low environmental impact engines that are 4-cylinder are better choices. However, Impala goes away at the end of the quarter. Malibu struggles on with no refresh that was scheduled in 21 or so and is ended in 24. They may as well shoot it now.

    I can't buy the medium vehicle in Malibu with the efficient engine and add on the nice stuff to get the full emergency braking, e.g.. Only the low speed braking is available. In the lower model I get a CVT. To get a 6-speed I have to take the hot 2.0L 4-cylinder. I am not a hot driver. The toughest load my Malibu sees is the mountain climb in the Cumberlands north of Knoxville on I75 with the air conditioning on. I don't need a 2.0 L for that.

    I feel the company has left me. I learned this for sure reading about the future of Malibu and Impala...

    Well, there's always low mile, used buys!
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    I've been thinking of starting to visit the Acura stores. I can see an A-type being just what I need. Well, maybe a more pedantic model would be fine.

    I'm not sure I can stand the salespeople at the Hyundai store and the Kia store. When they ask me how I make and income and how much by fishing around in their questioning, I want to ask them how much they make. I can buy their car the same day with a check if I want; my question is can I trust their store to do the right thing like my Chevy store has done.

    The toyota store sales folk turned me off in couple visits as I searched for new cars in the past. The local store owns the Hyundai store next door. Did I mention the Hyundai store is also the Genesis store?

    Then there's Honda store...

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 11,096
    abacomike said:

    berri said:

    Say aba, looks like you skirted most or all of that Dorian mess. The Abaco Bahama pictures look almost unreal. So awful. On a lighter note, is your new nickname "Hurricane" - that's bad! Seriously though, that devastation looks like it was attacked by a formation of B-52's. I think the casualties will be much worst than the first reports unfortunately, but hope I'm wrong.

    First of all, now you all know how I got my “handle” (abacomike)! Very few people have ever heard of the Abaco Islands before this terrible hurricane. I used to go offshore of the Abacos to deep-sea fish on fishing boats. Great fishing villages and part of the Bahamas.

    I have a feeling that many, many deaths will be reported over the next few days.

    We dodged a huge bullet 79 miles off our coastline. If not for the grace of God, we could have looked like those islands. Photos of the Hurricane Andrew aftermath in South Miami and Homestead looked just like that.

    I was truly shaking as that hurricane stalled just off our coast - if it had moved just 25-50 miles further west, we would have been devastated.
    For the last couple of days the local forecasters have been beating the drum about it making its way up the coast and hitting Nova Scotia Saturday/Sunday though as we know these things are unpredictable. Nevertheless the FUD factor is high and people are starting to freak out although it should be just a tropical storm by then. Can’t stand it.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Same as jmonroePosts: 1,161
    driver100 said:

    jmonroe1 said:

    driver100 said:

    tjc78 said:

    @driver100
    Your list is skewed by a fact that others have brought up.... actual transaction price!!

    The Impala and CTS for sure command big discounts from sticker. So, look at it this way:
    Impala - Let's say 40K MSRP. All day long you buy it for 32K.
    Using the 33.5% loss stated in one year, it would be worth $26,600.
    Taking the fact you paid 32K; the net loss is 16.9 % or $5400
    BIG difference.

    I agree, but, I like to use the MSRP as the real gauge because GM thought the car would sell for $40k, when it didn't move they give it a bargain basement price of $32k. It gives me a better idea of what people thought of the car to get the full depreciation value....but, I know, in the back of my mind the car never sold for the full $40k.

    Looking at it another way, the car seems to be a great bargain if you buy a used one and can save 33% after one year..........but if the depreciation is only 17% maybe I am better off buying a Toyota.

    WOW, if that response doesn't sound like, "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up", I don't know what does.

    jmonroe
    Everyone else understood it :D
    Did they? Or are they just tired of hearing you repeat yourself with unsupported real world claims because you chose to see things your way ? :o

    jmonroe
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 24,917
    venture said:

    driver100 said:

    I saw a Kia Stinger today. It looked beautiful. Too low to the ground for me...and really a younger guys car....but, it looked really nice in black.

    I saw a red one today. The first one I have seen. The guy was making a lot of noise with it.
    I was next to this one at the light. I think he wanted to race....I must be getting old....I had no desire to race him, even if I could have won (which I probably wouldn't...how many horsepower?).

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 24,917
    Imid....did I read that right...you are considering at a non-GM car one day?
    Love to hear your impressions, an Accord may be worth a try - don't deduct too many points for dealership.
    Once you buy it you can find one you like.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,280
    If the Stinger was smaller I'd be interested; the GTS Special Edition is interesting- although I'm dead certain that the idiot Louisville dealers will not order any with RWD.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,543
    edited September 5

    I've been thinking of starting to visit the Acura stores. I can see an A-type being just what I need. Well, maybe a more pedantic model would be fine.

    I'm not sure I can stand the salespeople at the Hyundai store and the Kia store. When they ask me how I make and income and how much by fishing around in their questioning, I want to ask them how much they make. I can buy their car the same day with a check if I want; my question is can I trust their store to do the right thing like my Chevy store has done.

    The toyota store sales folk turned me off in couple visits as I searched for new cars in the past. The local store owns the Hyundai store next door. Did I mention the Hyundai store is also the Genesis store?

    Then there's Honda store...

    Imid, the sales personnel at new car dealerships are trained to gather as much information about the customer as possible in as short a time period as possible. But asking questions about my income, what I want to pay for the car, what I do for a living, etc., is out-of-bounds for me. I take control of my conversations with sales personnel and sales managers.

    When I walk into a dealership, I know what I want - including options. I know what I am willing to pay and always mention to the salesman that if I decide to buy a car at his/her dealership, I will be talking to the manager - the guy who makes the decisions about the final sales price.

    I do not insult or anger the salesman - I want to develop a relationship with him for the future - but when it comes to price, I want to talk with the decision maker! 😜🤪

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,026
    I think I’ve pretty much given up talking price at the dealer. It’s much better over email these days. You are best only going to the dealer for a test drive.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    edited September 5
    driver100 said:

    Imid....did I read that right...you are considering at a non-GM car one day?
    Love to hear your impressions, an Accord may be worth a try - don't deduct too many points for dealership.
    Once you buy it you can find one you like.

    I see little choice. I don't want an SUV other than possibly a small one like an Encore/TraXX.

    I am perfectly happy with my Malibu. It's higher seating than the Accords/camry vehicles that pull in next to me parked at the morning coffee store. I would currently be open to replacing the Cobalt and selling the Cobalt straight out to someone who appreciates the care the engine and trans have had.

    My son hasn't indicated any interest in replacing his Cruze, but I'd like to buy it back if he wanted to buy something else.

    What do I replace the Cobalt with? Elantra? Forte? BMW? Something small taht will fit into the garage area.

    I'm always considering what I'd buy to replace either vehicle were one to be injured in an accident. I have almost lost the Cobalt 3 times in the last 2 years in the area around Kroger's parking lot. People pull out because the car in the right lane is turning into their drive but don't notice the car in the second thru lane next to the one turning. One #### woman hit her brakes as she realized there was a car coming at her broadside instead of accelerating on across my lane hoping to get out of the way. I stopped 18 inches from her rear quarter panel.

    I'm worried instead of the Cobalt being destroyed by a bad driver, it will be my 5-year old Malibu with 35 K miles that is irreplaceable, unless I buy a new and different model.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    edited September 5
    Had a CTS-V sedan park next to me at coffee this morning. I noticed it was lower and had thinner tires than the typical CTS. It was a snow white color that I don't see on the other models. Then I saw the "V" on the side and the sculptured hood intakes.

    The sound from that engine when the young (40) owner restarted it was like a reboot of the 60s and 70s with quarter cams, half cams, and 396's, 409's etc.. It was a sound really different than the Charger with a 392 Hemi in it that parked on the other side later. IT has more of a pop-pop sound to the exhaust. The CTS evoked memories of my long gone youth with no money.

    Now you know why I enjoy sitting drinking coffee at the local quick market. The car show is great.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,458
    edited September 5

    If the Stinger was smaller I'd be interested; the GTS Special Edition is interesting- although I'm dead certain that the idiot Louisville dealers will not order any with RWD.

    I'm starting to see more Stingers on the road. It is definitely a very distinct looking automobile, especially that GTS in that Orange Color. I like it. No doubt from what I've read about kia dealers is that they will put an ADM sticker on a GTS, rope it off in the showroom, and only allow test drives with a non refundable deposit with a signed buyer's order. I wouldn't expect any dealer within 200 + miles of me to stock a RWD Stinger. You'd probably have to search way south of the Mason Dixon line to find one. The major flaw seems to be the stock brakes getting soft and soggy after a few hard laps at the track. Brakes are easy and relatively inexpensive upgrade. Most manufacturers don't do stock brakes like Porsche & BMW.

    I feel like these have been out long enough that there is some sort of auction data on them. How's it look @qbrozen? The residuals from kia finance are dreadful.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,458
    I stand corrected. A dealer not too far from me (1/2 way between work & home) has a RWD $50K plus MSRP Stinger GT2. IT has been on car gurus for 163 days.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,553
    ab348 said:


    On that CT5, since they are doing away with the XTS and I guess the CTS, is that the replacement for both of them? Will that be the only sedan or will Caddy retain the ATS?

    No, they have also announced the CT4, which is a refreshed ATS. You will note that the door shape and side windows are identical to the ATS. Some people do not like the rear end design, but I will wait to see it in person.

    image
    image
    I agree...that’s a good looking car, front and back!
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,372
    Photos of Hurricane Dorian destruction. The Category 5 storm caused catastrophic damage to the Bahamas before it moved up the US coast.
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2019/09/03/photos-winds-rain-from-hurricane-dorian-lash-bahamas-florida/IKGeEFg9iXJBmJ8SECFJ8M/story.html
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,553

    If the Stinger was smaller I'd be interested; the GTS Special Edition is interesting- although I'm dead certain that the idiot Louisville dealers will not order any with RWD.

    I saw the Stinger GTS at the dealer I visited. Not fond of the orange paint scheme. But, it had all the right goodies on it and it had a $48K sticker. Probably a little give and take, maybe make it a $45K car.

    Dealer said he was not budging from sticker. I asked him how long it had been in the showroom and he said two weeks. I kinda snickered and thought to myself...”talk to me in a couple more weeks about how you’re not budging from sticker”.

    Still, I’m really taken with the Stinger. Of course, in the back of my mind I’d always wonder how reliable it would be. Kia is supposed to be better these days. Not sure about that.

    I only know one person who owns a KIA and she’s on her 3rd one. She leases one every 3 years and loves them.

    I don’t think @oldfarmer50 has had any issues with his, either.

    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,589

    I guess I should stick to my recent impressions of BOP which is what I suggest others do with their complaints and criticisms of GM...

    My memories of Pontiac as a wide track fast car with engines with 3 2-barrel carbs and IIRC 2 4-barrel carbs feeding fuel to a hungry engine are still what shaped my image.

    I had two Oldmobiles--not recent, but 1977 Cutlass Supreme which was Superb and a 1980 which was not as satisfying. I think Oldsmobile died a slow death.

    My impression of Pontiac was from working at a dealership when I was in high school back in the late 70's. That was that they were cheaper Chevys and/or just plain old low end cars.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,543

    Had a CTS-V sedan park next to me at coffee this morning. I noticed it was lower and had thinner tires than the typical CTS. It was a snow white color that I don't see on the other models. Then I saw the "V" on the side and the sculptured hood intakes.

    The sound from that engine when the young (40) owner restarted it was like a reboot of the 60s and 70s with quarter cams, half cams, and 396's, 409's etc.. It was a sound really different than the Charger with a 392 Hemi in it that parked on the other side later. IT has more of a pop-pop sound to the exhaust. The CTS evoked memories of my long gone youth with no money.

    Now you know why I enjoy sitting drinking coffee at the local quick market. The car show is great.

    Funny you should mention how low CTS-V was when you parked next to one. Had the same observation this morning when I parked next to a Lexus ES350. I was amazed at how low it was - something I would have to pass on for my next car with my bad back. Carnaught mentioned that a short time ago - same for the Camry and the Avalon. Most unfortunate.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,589
    Ok let me ask the BMW people here on their opinion on a 2014 428i convertible with about 33k on the clock.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,372
    edited September 5
    A single 50-ish neighborhood friend dropped by yesterday to say hello. She was driving a silver Mercedes Benz S450. My, what a huge car--long as it is wide. Inquisitive, and perhaps rude, I asked how could she afford such an upscale car, since she is otherwise so stingy with her money.

    She said she inherited some money from her dead uncle and promptly bought a fully loaded S450 for $114,000, including a 5-year maintenance package. What can I say, the car looks understated but substantial? Styling is plain inside and out and it does not shout "bling" as one might have expected for a high-end nameplate. I asked what was her favorite feature, she could not say, but she liked the Burmester sound system plus the 24 mpg on premium. In the end, she looks happy and that's what counts.
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 5,609

    Ok let me ask the BMW people here on their opinion on a 2014 428i convertible with about 33k on the clock.

    The devil is going to be in the details. What options does it have? Colors? Asking price?

    You'll absolutely want to get a BMW mechanic to do a PPI on it and hopefully you'd get a full copy of the service history on it. These are not cars you want to buy where the previous owner skimped on maintenance. Having a good BMW mechanic/dealer will be the difference between it robbing you blind and being a pleasant ownership for routine and non-routine maintenance.

    Paging @roadburner to the white courtesy telephone.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2019 BMW i3 REX, 2016 BMW X1 xDrive28i
  • thebeanthebean Parts UnknownPosts: 1,126

    I've been thinking of starting to visit the Acura stores. I can see an A-type being just what I need. Well, maybe a more pedantic model would be fine.

    I'm not sure I can stand the salespeople at the Hyundai store and the Kia store. When they ask me how I make and income and how much by fishing around in their questioning, I want to ask them how much they make. I can buy their car the same day with a check if I want; my question is can I trust their store to do the right thing like my Chevy store has done.

    The toyota store sales folk turned me off in couple visits as I searched for new cars in the past. The local store owns the Hyundai store next door. Did I mention the Hyundai store is also the Genesis store?

    Then there's Honda store...

    OK, just exactly who are you and what have you done with @imidazol97?
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2017 Honda Civic EX-T
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,589
    bwia said:

    A single 50-ish neighborhood friend dropped by yesterday to say hello. She was driving a silver Mercedes Benz S450. My, what a huge car--long as it is wide.

    Since there is a width limit of around 8.5 feet being as long as it is wide would make it as long as a Smart car.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 24,917

    Ok let me ask the BMW people here on their opinion on a 2014 428i convertible with about 33k on the clock.

    Good for a lot of people...but, I don't know if you will be happy with it. You are going to be paying much more for service, parts, insurance etc. I don't think you will enjoy that.

    I get being practical, nothing wrong with it, but, very hard for a very practical person to live an impractical life.

    I on the other hand could be interested! :p

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,589

    Ok let me ask the BMW people here on their opinion on a 2014 428i convertible with about 33k on the clock.

    The devil is going to be in the details. What options does it have? Colors? Asking price?

    You'll absolutely want to get a BMW mechanic to do a PPI on it and hopefully you'd get a full copy of the service history on it. These are not cars you want to buy where the previous owner skimped on maintenance. Having a good BMW mechanic/dealer will be the difference between it robbing you blind and being a pleasant ownership for routine and non-routine maintenance.

    Paging @roadburner to the white courtesy telephone.
    OK just trying to get a general feeling for it, what people think of it generally. I dont think it has many upgrades in the area of options, if any. It's white with a black interior Asking price is just over 23k.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 24,917
    My friend with a 2016 Audi RS tried out a Tesla Model S I think...0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds. $140000.
    He paid $142000 for his Audi. He would have done it if he got the expected $160000 for his RS.
    They said they could only give him $42000.
    He didn't like that the Audi depreciated so much. Back to the drawing boards.

    He said even the dealer said people are putting off buying new luxury cars because resale values have fallen so much. One reason is, who wants to pay $50 or $60K for a 3 year old car, that could have expensive repairs and is out of warranty?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,589
    driver100 said:

    Ok let me ask the BMW people here on their opinion on a 2014 428i convertible with about 33k on the clock.

    Good for a lot of people...but, I don't know if you will be happy with it. You are going to be paying much more for service, parts, insurance etc. I don't think you will enjoy that.

    I get being practical, nothing wrong with it, but, very hard for a very practical person to live an impractical life.

    I on the other hand could be interested! :p
    Well first off it will be the wifes car and secondly if she is happy with it then the additional costs aren't an issue for me.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,704
    it really won't cost that much to run a 2014 base level BMW. Maybe more than a Malibu, but in the big picture, not enough to really matter unless you are on a really, really tight budget.

    sounds like a nice car, other than the colors. Black vinyl/leather in a convertible is a non-starter for me, but hey, if she likes it, all that matters!

    make it dark blue over tan with a manual trans, and I would be interested.

    is 2014 the 1st year of the 2.0T motor, or the last of the 3.0NA 6? I thought they cut over somewhere around that MY.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,280
    edited September 5

    Ok let me ask the BMW people here on their opinion on a 2014 428i convertible with about 33k on the clock.

    Type the last seven digits of the VIN into the M Decoder to find out what options are installed.
    The N20 motor suffered from some timing chain issues early on; information found here will be helpful. It might have an extended warranty from BMW.
    As previously mentioned, a PPI from a good BMW tech is essential.
    Service issues aren't a big deal:
    Oil change every 10k miles/1 year
    Coolant and Brake fluid every two years
    ATF every 60k miles.
    Telematics on a 2013 BMW are a bit dated, if that's important to you.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,455
    CT4 looks sharp. CT5, in pictures, I keep thinking of the previous Chrysler 200:


    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

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