Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100 · August 2020

tjc.....I'd be very careful going too cheap. If they spot it they will really check the car out, and may be rougher on you. Not saying you need a premium job, but they may not take kindly to Bondo.

stickguy · August 2020

how do you think panels are smoothed out? It's with Bondo!

tjc78 · August 2020

The body shop I use is good. They are local (walking distance) and I'm sure I'll get a decent price with cash in hand. They have done a good bit of work for the family over the years.

driver100 · August 2020

stickguy said:
how do you think panels are smoothed out? It's with Bondo!

DIY Bondo job?

graphicguy · August 2020

As an aside, the used car manager at the Acura store uses one of these.

https://www.defelsko.com/resources/automotive-paint-inspection-paint-meters

Now matter how good the repair, he swears he can tell if a car has had body work done.

When I buy something used, I’m not nearly that sophisticated. I look at overspray, orange peel, trunk/hood/door jams, undercarriage to check for signs of damage.

This thing takes it to the next level, for those who care.

stickguy · August 2020

I just watched a video by he who shall not be named, showing how to PPI a car. And he had one of those and found a panel that had obviously been repainted. It was a neat gizmo.

abacomike · August 2020

Saw an interesting article in the newspaper this morning. Investigations have uncovered more info regarding the Covid-19 pandemic causes.

It seems that local officials (government and scientists) withheld the fact that an unknown virus was spreading human to human in northern China because they feared reprisals from the central Chinese regime. So it would seem the spread of the virus was not a deliberate attempt by the central government to conceal info - but rather the locals.

But the question arises as to who knew what and when? I wonder if we will ever know the full truth about this awful mess!🤓

stickguy · August 2020

It sounds plausible. And no, we will never know the actual truth.

dino001 · August 2020

abacomike said:

It seems that local officials (government and scientists) withheld the fact that an unknown virus was spreading human to human in northern China because they feared reprisals from the central Chinese regime. So it would seem the spread of the virus was not a deliberate attempt by the central government to conceal info - but rather the locals.

Mike, as a person who lived under a similar regime for around 20 years, I can tell you this is a very typical response of these types of governments to any kind of crisis. It's basically exact opposite to what you get with free press, when reports will often become quickly exaggerated (usual motive would be profit from watching scary news, or getting political cover for requesting a gigantic disaster relief). In countries like China or Russia it basically works that at every level of the government, there is less and less bad news (truth) reported upward for fear of retaliation. Doesn't matter whether it's a toxic spill, industrial accident, or epidemic, the reported effect goes down and the message is "we are on top of it, don't worry about it". Central government may often have no idea how bad things are on the ground in first few hours/days, until they send their own trusted people to see it for themselves. That doesn't prevent them from hiding whatever remnants of truth they know, of course.

fintail · August 2020

If it wasn't for detection equipment, it might have been a long time indeed until the west knew about Chernobyl.

Some of that also reminds me of the Rebekah Jones incident and how one might not want to bank on the veracity of American data, too.

dino001 said:

Mike, as a person who lived under a similar regime for around 20 years, I can tell you this is a very typical response of these types of governments to any kind of crisis. It's basically exact opposite to what you get with free press, when reports will often become quickly exaggerated (usual motive would be profit from watching scary news, or getting political cover for requesting a gigantic disaster relief). In countries like China or Russia it basically works that at every level of the government, there is less and less bad news (truth) reported upward for fear of retaliation. Doesn't matter whether it's a toxic spill, industrial accident, or epidemic, the reported effect goes down and the message is "we are on top of it, don't worry about it". Central government may often have no idea how bad things are on the ground in first few hours/days, until they send their own trusted people to see it for themselves. That doesn't prevent them from hiding whatever remnants of truth they know, of course.

dino001 · August 2020

fintail said:
If it wasn't for detection equipment, it might have been a long time indeed until the west knew about Chernobyl.
Some of that also reminds me of the Rebekah Jones incident and how one might not want to bank on the veracity of American data, too.

The difference is in China or Russia you'd never have heard of Rebekah Jones, in fact the government would have scrubbed her and every person with that name from existence in public domain. An Internet search for that name would have resulted in tall unhappy dudes in dark suits knocking on your door within hours. Here she can crowdsource and fund her own website within days and continue her work if enough people decide it's worth pursuing.

dino001 · August 2020

By the way, the 3-Mile Island incident is an example of the opposite effect in the free world. The safety systems worked exactly as designed, yet instead of becoming a primary example of safety of the nuclear energy in the US, it somehow was reported as the biggest threat to mankind. I guess coincidental release of China Syndrome movie within days of the incident played into public emotions so strongly that facts on the ground simply didn't matter. The press went insane because scary story sells better than conclusion "you see, it works as designed".

fintail · August 2020

That's a good point, but I am not sure if I trust data from certain areas much more than I do Russia or China. We have all of the malfeasance without the totalitarian repression. So far.

I know there are plenty on this side of the pond, especially as "law and order" is a new chant among the scared, who'd love to see the system you describe, too.

dino001 said:

The difference is in China or Russia you'd never have heard of Rebekah Jones, in fact the government would have scrubbed her and every person with that name from existence in public domain. An Internet search for that name would have resulted in tall unhappy dudes in dark suits knocking on your door within hours. Here she can crowdsource and fund her own website within days and continue her work if enough people decide it's worth pursuing.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

abacomike said:
Saw an interesting article in the newspaper this morning. Investigations have uncovered more info regarding the Covid-19 pandemic causes.

It seems that local officials (government and scientists) withheld the fact that an unknown virus was spreading human to human in northern China because they feared reprisals from the central Chinese regime. So it would seem the spread of the virus was not a deliberate attempt by the central government to conceal info - but rather the locals.

But the question arises as to who knew what and when? I wonder if we will ever know the full truth about this awful mess!🤓

It’s a communist regime. That kind of stuff is SOP. In the old Soviet Union the central authority mandated impossible standards of production or quality so the factory mangers would just lie in order to avoid punishment. Made for some really crappy products.

I bet there was lying done at every level of government. That happens here too where no one gets sent to a re education camp...yet.

jmonroe1 · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:
Saw an interesting article in the newspaper this morning. Investigations have uncovered more info regarding the Covid-19 pandemic causes.

It seems that local officials (government and scientists) withheld the fact that an unknown virus was spreading human to human in northern China because they feared reprisals from the central Chinese regime. So it would seem the spread of the virus was not a deliberate attempt by the central government to conceal info - but rather the locals.

But the question arises as to who knew what and when? I wonder if we will ever know the full truth about this awful mess!🤓
It’s a communist regime. That kind of stuff is SOP. In the old Soviet Union the central authority mandated impossible standards of production or quality so the factory mangers would just lie in order to avoid punishment. Made for some really crappy products.

I bet there was lying done at every level of government. That happens here too where no one gets sent to a re education camp...yet.

Are you saying Russian vodka lacks consistent quality? Leave it to the worlds trouble makers to even screw that up.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:
Saw an interesting article in the newspaper this morning. Investigations have uncovered more info regarding the Covid-19 pandemic causes.

It seems that local officials (government and scientists) withheld the fact that an unknown virus was spreading human to human in northern China because they feared reprisals from the central Chinese regime. So it would seem the spread of the virus was not a deliberate attempt by the central government to conceal info - but rather the locals.

But the question arises as to who knew what and when? I wonder if we will ever know the full truth about this awful mess!🤓
It’s a communist regime. That kind of stuff is SOP. In the old Soviet Union the central authority mandated impossible standards of production or quality so the factory mangers would just lie in order to avoid punishment. Made for some really crappy products.

I bet there was lying done at every level of government. That happens here too where no one gets sent to a re education camp...yet.
Are you saying Russian vodka lacks consistent quality? Leave it to the worlds trouble makers to even screw that up.

jmonroe

I bet if you had sampled the vodka produced for domestic consumption vs export back prior to 1991 you would notice a difference.

Speaking of covid’s effect on things, my son just got the title for the car we bought on June 10th. Usually takes a month, tops. Now it takes 2 months and 10 days.

cdnpinhead · August 2020

The sun comes up in the East.

driver100 · August 2020

cdnpinhead said:
The sun comes up in the East.

.....and sets in the West............yeh, got the last word!

abacomike · August 2020

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:
The sun comes up in the East.
.....and sets in the West............yeh, got the last word!

You usually do, driver100!!! 🤪😜🤓

ab348 · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

Speaking of covid’s effect on things, my son just got the title for the car we bought on June 10th. Usually takes a month, tops. Now it takes 2 months and 10 days.

No different up here in the Great White North. My brother just told me he and his wife received their passport renewals in the mail this week. He had sent the forms and payment in back on March 10th.

jmonroe1 · August 2020

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:
The sun comes up in the East.
.....and sets in the West............yeh, got the last word!
You usually do, driver100!!! 🤪😜🤓

But it rarely makes sense.

jmonroe

driver100 · August 2020

jmonroe1 said:

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:
The sun comes up in the East.
.....and sets in the West............yeh, got the last word!
You usually do, driver100!!! 🤪😜🤓
But it rarely makes sense.

jmonroe

Moot point

fintail · August 2020

At least you guys are allowed in to places that require a passport.

ab348 said:

No different up here in the Great White North. My brother just told me he and his wife received their passport renewals in the mail this week. He had sent the forms and payment in back on March 10th.

driver100 · August 2020

If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.

jmonroe1 · August 2020

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.

Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

ab348 · August 2020

My buddy who moved up country to the middle of nowhere told me yesterday he had one installed, I thought he said it was a 12,000 watt job. All in including transfer panel, a pair of propane tanks to power it, pad for the unit, etc it was $12,000. He got a Generac.

qbrozen · August 2020

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.

good god. So $7500 in labor, based on what my unit cost me. Wow.

And 20k watts? WTH is he talking about? I've got double that square footage and have been running the central AC and well pump, plus all lights and outlets, 2 fridges AND a standup freezer ... all with a 14k unit. As I said before, my only issue was the pool pump.

explorerx4 · August 2020

Driver100 is using Canadian dollars.

driver100 · August 2020

explorerx4 said:
Driver100 is using Canadian dollars.

Exactly.....about 30% less in U.S. dollars.....$11k is probably about $8k USD all in. 20k is not what he recommended....20k is the standard for a 2000 sq ft house, but because of transfer switches and because there are only 2 adults etc he says 14k is sufficient.
For example.....first plan was to put the lines to the unit under a sidewalk, that would have added $600 more a gas fitting to the unit and in the house.....since he can put it on the other side of the house that cost is eliminated, no sidewalk to go under. Each house could have variables.
14K - $5999.00 (50amps NG)
ATS 200 - $1749.00 ( I guess it includes a new Cadillac - I think that is the panel)
Electrical Installation – $2500 approximate, not to exceed
Gas Installation – $1000.00 appr
Mounting Base – $449.00 – Wilkinson Heavy Precast

explorerx4 · August 2020

Although I don't understand the narrator(there are some subtitles), I enjoy these short videos.
Stinger does 82 kph, one of the best numbers I have seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCRqbTZbAxw

driver100 · August 2020

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.
Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

The last outage that lasted at least 3 nights was not pleasant. It was extremely cold, below freezing. The house held the heat for 2 nights...needed a coat to sleep on night 3. If the power didn't come on I was ready to go to a hotel, but some could have electricity, some not...and they tend to get filled up. Also, not a great way to live in a hotel room....two people and a dog. But, I think the threshold for me was $5000. But, if your electricity goes off for 3 days or more in freezing weather........who will be laughing then?

driver100 · August 2020

On our morning walk with Trixie I saw one of these parked and thought it must be a Bentley, especially with the emblem with wings....I saw it first from this angle;

Even from the front you think it is a Bentley because of the wings on the emblem...I don't think the name is on the car except on the trunk where it says G80.

It looks really long in real life....I guess the same as an S Class.

driver100 · August 2020

And a 2020 Genesis G90 could really pass itself off as a Bentley;

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.
Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

The last outage that lasted at least 3 nights was not pleasant. It was extremely cold, below freezing. The house held the heat for 2 nights...needed a coat to sleep on night 3. If the power didn't come on I was ready to go to a hotel, but some could have electricity, some not...and they tend to get filled up. Also, not a great way to live in a hotel room....two people and a dog. But, I think the threshold for me was $5000. But, if your electricity goes off for 3 days or more in freezing weather........who will be laughing then?

Wouldn’t a wood stove be cheaper with potentially unlimited fuel? (Think about using your neighbor’s trees). If it’s freezing put your food out on the porch.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

driver100 said:
And a 2020 Genesis G90 could really pass itself off as a Bentley;

While I was out getting pizza I heard a commercial where the local Nissan dealer was comparing the Sentra to the BMW 3.

driver100 · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.
Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

The last outage that lasted at least 3 nights was not pleasant. It was extremely cold, below freezing. The house held the heat for 2 nights...needed a coat to sleep on night 3. If the power didn't come on I was ready to go to a hotel, but some could have electricity, some not...and they tend to get filled up. Also, not a great way to live in a hotel room....two people and a dog. But, I think the threshold for me was $5000. But, if your electricity goes off for 3 days or more in freezing weather........who will be laughing then?
Wouldn’t a wood stove be cheaper with potentially unlimited fuel? (Think about using your neighbor’s trees). If it’s freezing put your food out on the porch.

Hard to run your stove, hot water, light bulbs or TV from a wood fireplace. Some refrigerated items may not do too well if they freeze....milk, eggs, possibly cheese, lettuce, tomatoes for example.
I agree, it is like ultra expensive insurance. Looks like we won't be going to Florida this winter, so that pays for about half of the generator....the rest is convenience, and it could be life saving....protection against severe cold and getting really ill.

driver100 · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
And a 2020 Genesis G90 could really pass itself off as a Bentley;

While I was out getting pizza I heard a commercial where the local Nissan dealer was comparing the Sentra to the BMW 3.

They both have tires, a steering wheel, headlights, seats, an engine....though both are very different engines.

ab348 · August 2020

driver100 said:

Hard to run your stove, hot water, light bulbs or TV from a wood fireplace. Some refrigerated items may not do too well if they freeze....milk, eggs, possibly cheese, lettuce, tomatoes for example.
I agree, it is like ultra expensive insurance. Looks like we won't be going to Florida this winter, so that pays for about half of the generator....the rest is convenience, and it could be life saving....protection against severe cold and getting really ill.

Don't forget that some of that cost will be recouped if you ever sell the house as it will help resale value. Here on the coast the risk of power outage is highest now through early October when hurricane season peaks. When we've had a couple of bad ones power can be out for anywhere from a day to two weeks depending on where you are. You won't freeze but your food goes bad and it is no fun at all.

jmonroe1 · August 2020

driver100 said:
On our morning walk with Trixie I saw one of these parked and thought it must be a Bentley, especially with the emblem with wings....I saw it first from this angle;

Even from the front you think it is a Bentley because of the wings on the emblem...I don't think the name is on the car except on the trunk where it says G80.

It looks really long in real life....I guess the same as an S Class.

Only better.

jmonroe

suydam · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.
Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

The last outage that lasted at least 3 nights was not pleasant. It was extremely cold, below freezing. The house held the heat for 2 nights...needed a coat to sleep on night 3. If the power didn't come on I was ready to go to a hotel, but some could have electricity, some not...and they tend to get filled up. Also, not a great way to live in a hotel room....two people and a dog. But, I think the threshold for me was $5000. But, if your electricity goes off for 3 days or more in freezing weather........who will be laughing then?
Wouldn’t a wood stove be cheaper with potentially unlimited fuel? (Think about using your neighbor’s trees). If it’s freezing put your food out on the porch.

Even counting just basic heating — and not all the other stuff that requires electricity— it is hard for a wood stove to heat many of today’s Large, high-ceiling homes. When we had our prolonged outage, combined with below 0 temps, the wood stove couldn’t come close to being sufficient. It was the holidays too so we had a full house. A friend who had power took our dogs, the vet took our cats, a couple of us with my 90 year old father camped in a hotel — one of the last rooms available — and the rest stayed in various college buildings that had power (about a third of the buildings did, including 2 dorms). It was crazy, but a great story to recount later, especially the heroic journey to pick up our daughter from the airport — normally a 45 minute drive that took 4 hours or more — and then she had to stay in a friend’s dorm room along with the friend’s parents! But it was a one-time thing, and other outages never lasted longer than a day, and never in such cold temperatures.

jmonroe1 · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
And a 2020 Genesis G90 could really pass itself off as a Bentley;

While I was out getting pizza I heard a commercial where the local Nissan dealer was comparing the Sentra to the BMW 3.

A little known side effect of Covid 19.

jmonroe

qbrozen · August 2020

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:
Driver100 is using Canadian dollars.
Exactly.....about 30% less in U.S. dollars.....$11k is probably about $8k USD all in. 20k is not what he recommended....20k is the standard for a 2000 sq ft house, but because of transfer switches and because there are only 2 adults etc he says 14k is sufficient.
For example.....first plan was to put the lines to the unit under a sidewalk, that would have added $600 more a gas fitting to the unit and in the house.....since he can put it on the other side of the house that cost is eliminated, no sidewalk to go under. Each house could have variables.
14K - $5999.00 (50amps NG)
ATS 200 - $1749.00 ( I guess it includes a new Cadillac - I think that is the panel)
Electrical Installation – $2500 approximate, not to exceed
Gas Installation – $1000.00 appr
Mounting Base – $449.00 – Wilkinson Heavy Precast

So $7749 for genny and switch... about $5425 USD.
My 14k generator and 200A ATS cost me $3200 total.
Sounds like quite a markup.

sda · August 2020

Even with our weekend trip of about 600 miles and two trips of 225 miles each I've only driven 4400 since December when the car was last serviced. Only 2900 miles since March. 100k next stop.

ab348 · August 2020

qbrozen said:

So $7749 for genny and switch... about $5425 USD.
My 14k generator and 200A ATS cost me $3200 total.
Sounds like quite a markup.

The costs driver quoted are in line with comparable estimates I’ve seen locally. Either you’re comparing apples to oranges or there is something else screwy in your numbers.

ab348 · August 2020

This would be off-putting - high-end Hyundai Palisades suffer from an unpleasant door in the seats. I cannot imagine.

https://www.cars.com/articles/csi-car-smell-investigation-2020-hyundai-palisade-edition-425864/

driver100 · August 2020

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:
Driver100 is using Canadian dollars.
Exactly.....about 30% less in U.S. dollars.....$11k is probably about $8k USD all in. 20k is not what he recommended....20k is the standard for a 2000 sq ft house, but because of transfer switches and because there are only 2 adults etc he says 14k is sufficient.
For example.....first plan was to put the lines to the unit under a sidewalk, that would have added $600 more a gas fitting to the unit and in the house.....since he can put it on the other side of the house that cost is eliminated, no sidewalk to go under. Each house could have variables.
14K - $5999.00 (50amps NG)
ATS 200 - $1749.00 ( I guess it includes a new Cadillac - I think that is the panel)
Electrical Installation – $2500 approximate, not to exceed
Gas Installation – $1000.00 appr
Mounting Base – $449.00 – Wilkinson Heavy Precast
So $7749 for genny and switch... about $5425 USD.
My 14k generator and 200A ATS cost me $3200 total.
Sounds like quite a markup.

Everything costs more in Canada....even allowing for the difference in the dollar. 1/10th of the population so less competition, greater distances, costs of doing business much greater (real estate, shipping, taxes, salaries etc.). Cost is what it is, can't do anything about that!

driver100 · August 2020

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

So $7749 for genny and switch... about $5425 USD.
My 14k generator and 200A ATS cost me $3200 total.
Sounds like quite a markup.
The costs driver quoted are in line with comparable estimates I’ve seen locally. Either you’re comparing apples to oranges or there is something else screwy in your numbers.

Exactly, can't compare to buying from kind of a crazy sale......or rebuilt or something.
A 14kw model on Amazon.com........
Generac 7176 Guardian 16kW Home Backup Generator WiFi-Enabled
by Generac
Price: $4,131.99 & FREE Shipping
https://www.amazon.com/Generac-7176-Guardian-Generator-WiFi-Enabled/dp/B07XPHJM9R/ref=sr_1_29?dchild=1&keywords=14k+generac+generator&qid=1598060876&sr=8-29

Like I say $6000 CDN is equivalent to about $4000 USD, and I didn't check U.S. prices before.

driver100 · August 2020

suydam said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.
Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

The last outage that lasted at least 3 nights was not pleasant. It was extremely cold, below freezing. The house held the heat for 2 nights...needed a coat to sleep on night 3. If the power didn't come on I was ready to go to a hotel, but some could have electricity, some not...and they tend to get filled up. Also, not a great way to live in a hotel room....two people and a dog. But, I think the threshold for me was $5000. But, if your electricity goes off for 3 days or more in freezing weather........who will be laughing then?
Wouldn’t a wood stove be cheaper with potentially unlimited fuel? (Think about using your neighbor’s trees). If it’s freezing put your food out on the porch.
Even counting just basic heating — and not all the other stuff that requires electricity— it is hard for a wood stove to heat many of today’s Large, high-ceiling homes.

Good point.....also don't you have to go out and find a good supply of wood, and keep feeding the wood stove all day and night?

suydam · August 2020

driver100 said:

suydam said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.
Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

The last outage that lasted at least 3 nights was not pleasant. It was extremely cold, below freezing. The house held the heat for 2 nights...needed a coat to sleep on night 3. If the power didn't come on I was ready to go to a hotel, but some could have electricity, some not...and they tend to get filled up. Also, not a great way to live in a hotel room....two people and a dog. But, I think the threshold for me was $5000. But, if your electricity goes off for 3 days or more in freezing weather........who will be laughing then?
Wouldn’t a wood stove be cheaper with potentially unlimited fuel? (Think about using your neighbor’s trees). If it’s freezing put your food out on the porch.
Even counting just basic heating — and not all the other stuff that requires electricity— it is hard for a wood stove to heat many of today’s Large, high-ceiling homes.
Good point.....also don't you have to go out and find a good supply of wood, and keep feeding the wood stove all day and night?

True, but then we lived in the country and everyone did that.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
If you do decide to get a home generator it will cost more than I was originally told. The electrician said a basic unit would be $4000, but that is just for the generator. He sent estimates for $14k for a basic one (heat, fridge, TV and lights.....hot water, stove I think) and $16k for one that will run a house.
Then i read don't use an electrician for this job, you need people who specialize in this....requires very specific knowledge....planning and getting approvals etc.
Nice fellow came on his motorcycle. Figured out it was easier to place the unit on the other side of the house hidden in the trees.....smart! He said normally a 2000 sq ft home should have a 20000 watt unit, but he could shave $1000 off using a 14000 watt unit....can do it because just 2 adults, and these days they can have a switch, so if for example we wanted to use the stove the unit will turn off the air conditioner. I understand Generac is #2, Briggs and Stratton #1, but this fellow does Kohler, not what I would choose but will probably be fine. They have installed over 500 units which is important to know. He planned it well really thinking through the best way to plan it...they look after all issues with gas lines etc.........$11000. I thought $5000 would be my top price or we would suffer through an outage, but Mrs D100 wants to have one.....and I am more on the fence, but starting to like the idea. Just have to remind myself it isn't my money....it's kids inheritance money.
Call it what you want, you’re being screwed. Like I said in a previous post, let the food spoil a dozen times or so and go to a hotel. Whether you want to admit it or not, putting up with you for years, your kids earned that money.

jmonroe

The last outage that lasted at least 3 nights was not pleasant. It was extremely cold, below freezing. The house held the heat for 2 nights...needed a coat to sleep on night 3. If the power didn't come on I was ready to go to a hotel, but some could have electricity, some not...and they tend to get filled up. Also, not a great way to live in a hotel room....two people and a dog. But, I think the threshold for me was $5000. But, if your electricity goes off for 3 days or more in freezing weather........who will be laughing then?
Wouldn’t a wood stove be cheaper with potentially unlimited fuel? (Think about using your neighbor’s trees). If it’s freezing put your food out on the porch.
Hard to run your stove, hot water, light bulbs or TV from a wood fireplace. Some refrigerated items may not do too well if they freeze....milk, eggs, possibly cheese, lettuce, tomatoes for example.
I agree, it is like ultra expensive insurance. Looks like we won't be going to Florida this winter, so that pays for about half of the generator....the rest is convenience, and it could be life saving....protection against severe cold and getting really ill.

On the contrary you can cook on top of a wood stove, heat water too. Use candles for light and tell ghost stories around the fire. As a kid when we would camp out in the winter we would put things like milk and eggs in an insulated cooler with a jug of water. The insulation and the latent heat of the water would keep things from freezing down to zero F. (-18 C).

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