Dodge Dakota: Problems & Solutions

mopar67 · August 2001

Been there done that on an INternational that mysteriously leaked fluid yet never showed its path of leakage. What I do remember is sitting at a stoplight and realizing that the truck would "creep" forward even though the clutch would be all the way to the floor! Yup, problem there. And yes, it came with its own bleeder screw right on the slave cylinder. Had to Bleed it many many many times. Which is why I got to dislike that setup.
A manual clutch is much more durable until you fry the pressure plate and the throw out bearing (experience #2 on my dads current 1978 vintage Mopar iron) But a whole new clutch and flywheel solved the problem.

bluebayou · August 2001

Does anybody else seem to have a moderate case of pre-ignition on 87 gas. I've got the 4.7 and if I roll on the throttle pretty good without the tranny kicking down she will ping like a some a nu [non-permissible content removed] (i can use that term... right?). I understand that this really taxes the motor but if the tranny doesn't kick down, then it should be able to pull it without pinging.

I've tried all kinds of 87 octane gas (BP, Shell, Marathon w/ 10% ethanol, Speedway, Sunoco) and they all seem to do the same (thought the ethanol mix was a little better). I was thinking of changing the plugs to see if this would help. I would just buy higher grade gas, but that stuff is getting really expensive.

None the less, if you guy (and gals) could recommend a good aftermarket plug it would be greatly appreciated. I would prefer a copper core plug versus some of the platinums. NGK, Autolite, Bosch, would all work.

Thanks again.

P.S. My milage has been around 16 - 17 at 5,000 miles and I don't really drive to nice

myersed · August 2001

Has anyone changed fluid & both filters in their Auto transmission (with 4.7)? I recently picked up the 2 filters (Flat and spin-on) and the fluid. I plan to make the change in the next couple weeks as I approach 28,000 miles.

Also, has anyone had similar experiences "doing it yourself" and some words of advice.

I purchased the following items from CarQuest:
*ATP TX-109 spin on filter@ $9.72
*ATP TX-111 flat filter @ $12.92
*Valvoline ATF +3(specifically for Chrysler vehicles requiring type 7176)@ $2.29 ea

I only purchased 6 qts following the BOB.

Ed

hairydog · August 2001

Curious how you fared with DC about brakes?
Took my grandson to school today and to my amazement his teacher had a 2001 Dak 2wd pickup and she had rotors turned and 2,000 miles later new brakes. She unloaded the vechicle.

mopar67 · August 2001

After all the diatrabe about my brakes you woulda thunk I had an update now.
The verdict. The zone guy says to replace everything: rotors, drums, shoes, pads. According to him (Zone guy)DC has experienced NUMEROUS complaints about premature rotor wear and warpage especially on Jeep grand Cherokees. Seems the current pad compound "holds" too much heat rather than dissipating it thereby warping the rotor. Also, DC has had issues with their supplier of brake rotors (Bosch). The issue revolves around the rotors not being properly "cured" prior to initial machining at the foundry. What this means is that they will warp the first time they get a good dose of brake application. (No fake jake!)
Anyway, this all sounded fine I suppose. I didn't do backflips or anything. Since the part numbers for the pads and shoes are new due to a new pad and shoe material makeup, the parts have to be ordered.
I will say this, this is DC last chance to make good on a lousy design/manufacturing issue. There won't be a "next time" as I will pursue aftermarket components.
Maybe I should have done that already? Ahh but theres that thing called warranty!

tuvtest · August 2001

I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised by your info. I've always considered Bosch a trusted company. I've used a wide variety of their products, whether it's been power tools, platnium plugs, lighting products or brake componants, and have always found them to be well designed and lived up to the billing. I guess it just goes to show that you can't trust any company nowadays....to bad...

billarf · August 2001

Switch to Autolite 3923's. With all the plugs I Use the stock spec gap of .040". Also switch to a Robert Shaw 180 degree thermostat. These 2 changes have worked for many with the 4.7 and pinging problems. For more info/tips go to

http://www.dodgedakotas.com

Bill in NY

bpeebles · August 2001

Do not forget that vendors (in this case BOSH) are only following the process (and design) that DC specified them to follow during the manufacturing process.

If there TRULY was a problem with the vendor-built parts then the VENDOR would be footing the bill for the replacement parts to DC.

BTW are you aware that BOSCH (or a predecessor) invented the first SPARK PLUG, FUEL INJECTION and ABS brakes! (not all at once.)

tuvtest · August 2001

Bpeeples- I agree with you to a certain point, I'm sure there is some amount of that. I don't have experiance in sourcing auto parts, but I can't imagine it's that different than any other industry. My experience with parts suppliers is: when possible an off-the-shelf part is used rather than spending the time/$ to custom design a componant, and when a custom part in needed, the supplier is often involved in making sure that what is designed is correct for the application. After all it is their name/reputation on the line as well as the end product manufacturer. If they are supplying an inferior product, industry will know and be hesitant to use them for future orders. Additionaly ISO9000 quality systems encourage dismissing vendors that cannot supply a quality product reliably, and I belive automakers have their own version of this standard (QS-9000)

mopar67 · August 2001

& its all fine and dandy what they accomplished in the past. But I am refering to issues now and those issues directly affect me.
For what its worth, I could care less who makes the components for my truck. All I ask is use a little quality and put a little thought into the design.
It all boils down to lousy design and manufacturing processes. As I have stated previously, I owned a lot of clunkers in my day and most of those were driven at the hands of a less than careful teenager(me!) And I never had the headaches with brakes that I do now. I am not suggesting that DC build brakes just so we can abuse them but rather build brakes that last beyond the warranty period.
Maybe Bosch is footing the bill somehow? I don't know and thats not my problem. I do my part with respect to maintenance & I expected more from Dodge that what I have received so far.

urban3 · August 2001

It's been a while since I checked in, but I have 2 questions for the regulars.

While wipping dirt/dust off of upper engine surfaces, I found what appears to be some sort of U-shaped rubber grommet. It was on the right side, actually straddling a plastic hose that appears to go to the oil fill neck. The sides of it are about a 1/4" thick at the bottom of the U, and about 3/4" thick at the top of the U. I've looked in the BOB, but I'm not sure where to even focus. Any ideas?

I have the power door locks and they typically make an electro/mechanical chirp when they lock or unlock. This has been this way since I got my QC. However, recently the door lock occansionally makes a much louder, and I would say, definitely electronic, beep. Again, any ideas or similar experience.

Hope you've been enjoying the summer. Thanks.

ron35 · August 2001

I have a 2K Dak and currently have water (condensation) in both headlights. Last year I had one of the headlights changed because of this and before I had the Dak I had a 98 Ram that had to have a headlight changed because of this problem. I have asked my local 5 star if this is a common problem and he says no, however, it seems to be a chronic problem for me. Has anyone else had this problem?

Ron35

steel45 · August 2001

Sorry I missed earlier discussions concerning this issue.
My '01, 2wd, has a rear end whine between 45 & 50 mph.
Any TSB or recalls I should be aware of before I take it in?
Also, there is a very annoying squeak/rubbing from the bed area when I turn. Any suggestions?
Thanks folks, this is an excellent site with great people and info.

bpeebles · August 2001

If you have the 4.7L, the only hose into the oil-fill neck is the one that connects to the PCV valve. The PCV valve is actually 'plugged' into the side of the oil-fill neck with a 1/2 twist to remove it.

I am not sure about your description of the U-shaped rubber grommet...

bpeebles · August 2001

(ron35) Yes... not an uncommon problem... warantee covers replacement.

henne · August 2001

well i changed the oil in my truck for the first time today. after all the tips from everyone here on the skid plate/oil drain problem i fashioned a plastic funnel to divert the oil flow and thought i thought of everything, guess what,
NO! i obviously didnt spend enough weeks thinking about this little diverter. i looked at the plug in place and it is smaller than my wifes subaru drain plug so i took her extra plug to make sure it would fit in the diverter and not clog it up and it did fine. well i put my diverter in place and loosened the plug and let it drop and whallah! it has a large flanged area that was huge compared to the wifes plug and it clogged the drain and it overflowed all over the skid plate and oil started seeping from a dozen or so little holes. well at this point i am very dizzy from the anger and disgust at myself and the engineers. i end up having to remove the skid plate and clean it up and the many quarts of oil all in my driveway. then once i got my fumoto valve with drain hose (thank god i did that so this wont happen again) i proceeded to the oil filter and decided that the little access panel was a bad design also so i removed that whole plastic cover so i could get to the filter and it went off without a hitch. point of story a 15 min project turned into a 3 hour deal including cleaning the driveway. the engineers should have done a better job than that. was it free crack day in detroit the day they came up with this stuff?

oily and disgusted,

robert

urban3 · August 2001

bpeebles - Thanks for the info. I notice the PCV value, and without looking it up, I was wondering what it was.

The "grommet" looks like the a "U", but with depth. The height is 1 1/4" by 1" wide, and the depth is about 1/2" at the bottom of the U and it is 1" deep on either side of the U at the top. Being rubber, it looks like it's to protect an opening from something going through the opening, or visa versa.

Anyway...

mopar67 · August 2001

but probably "cut costs so I (the VP of design) can get a bonus" day.
I don't mean to laugh, because I've been thru the same nonsense only difference is, I uttered enough choice words to singe a preacher's ears!
At least your oil filter came off, mine was literally glued on and I ruined two wrenches trying to get it off. Finally said (well, guess what I said) and punched a long screwdriver thru it and took if off that way. And I agree the teeny access hole is silly unless you are a munchkin from the land of OZ....or is it the land of Detroit where glass belly buttons are needed so VPs can see the light of day?

bookitty · August 2001

Robert, some years ago, a friend of mine had an executive position at J.I. Case construction equipment division. The engineers showcased a brand new design, and had the operator put it through its impressive paces. At the end of the demonstration, my friend asked the engineers to perform the servicing of the equipment as would be done in shop and in the field. The next thing that evolved, were the cutting torches as access holes were cut and/or enlarged to allow draining of fluids, removal and installation of filters and necessary field adjustments. It was a lesson well learned by these particular engineers, and provoked a thought process for future design. The engineers were extremely embarrassed by this display of their ineptitude in front of the dealer base as well as the marketing division.

Bookitty

bpeebles · August 2001

Great story... I do not doubt it at all. My Dads JOB as an "industrial engineer" for the oil industry had many simular encounters.

Try replacing a 500 pound electric motor mounted 200 feet up on a seperator tower (or even OILING it). Fortunately, he caught this while still on paper and had them re-think the design before building it.

bpeebles · August 2001

Has anyone considerd/tried using a remote-mount oil filter? Is there room behind the PDC for this this?

(Power Distribution Center ... behind the battery)

mopar67 · August 2001

for Chrysler. Even as a consultant, I am sure he would have made a difference!

henne · September 2001

i think cowtownaggie did it. hey preston, wake up!! didnt you do it?

robert

mopar67 · September 2001

http://coulterc.home.mindspring.com/hemi/hemi.html

Excellent pics!

ahasher · September 2001

.. on my way home today coming off an overpass.. all seems well ..then THUMP.. surge.. rough idle.. check engine light comes on. idle settles down somewhat but is searching and surging...
OH NO! Trying to make it out of the intersection... all gauges are normal... no smoke or unusual sounds. Acceleration sounds ok... make it about a block and pull over.. put into park and idle drifts then quietly stalls..
A restart of the engine seems ok... but power seems weak. I nurse my rig the 10 miles or so to the dealer.. where no unusual sounds come from the engine or drivetrain. I explain my symptoms and leave her in ICU. A rental RAM at dealers cost is available.
bpeebles, mopar67.. and thoughts? I will say one thing..if she had a carb, I woild SWEAR she backfired thru the carb (shadtree mechanic speaking here)... weird...
details at 11

snowcountry · September 2001

Very informative article - I can handle the plastic intake manifolds and magnesium valve covers, but I must admit I did a double take when I read that the one piece 5 main bearing bottom end of the crank is glued in place with bathtub caulking and the oil pump might be from an AMC Pacer!

Does this finally settle the hemi - not hemi discussion?

mopar67 · September 2001

I wonder, and just only wonder, if perhaps you dropped a valve, either the intake valve or exhaust. What you described sounded exactly like a coworker when his 96 intrepid 3.3 dropped a valve!
At any rate, I hope I'm wrong on this (now thats a first!)'cause thats some serious stuff there!
Glad you made it back to the dealer in one piece and I am sending court jester prayers onwards and upwards.

ahasher · September 2001

I am waiting to hear later today what they have found. Strange, (to me anyway) that after the initial thump and surging,and the stalling the engine sounded "normal". I tried to carefully listen for anything unusual, but all I could hear was the normal sound the 4.7 makes; Altho I did keep it modest in speed for fear of my luck finally running out. FWIT, I got a 2001 RAM with the 5.9. Initial opinion: nice big seats but the DAK rides and handles much better.

stay tuned for updates, same bat channel, same bat time

jhorl · September 2001

This is my first post on here and like many of you i prefer to do most maintenence myself.

The problem i'm having is finding any sort of service manual. Can anyone offer any suggestions.

Thank you....

appraiser · September 2001

Sounds kind of sexy, doesn't it? However, we're talking about my 2000 Dakota Quad, 4.7, 5-speed. I took it in to the dealer for my 36,000 mile checkup, got them to do the regular maintenance, and check on a whining sound coming from the rear. Two days later, I get a hard grinding sound coming from the rear when starting from a complete stop and only when the wheels are turned (starting at about 1/2 turn). When the wheels are straight, no sound. Any advice?

mopar67 · September 2001

www.4adodge.com has a link to the tech authority site where you can purchase manuals (owners and service)
The Dakota manual costs about 90 bucks unless the price has changed.

gilboucher · September 2001

appraiser - check my posting on Dakota Problems (#208). If you have the LSD rear axle, it could be lack of the additive. My noise started around 25,000 miles. The noise went away after the dealer put the additive in.

resqman · September 2001

I've had my Quad Cab about 14 months with about 25,000 miles. I ran over something last week and it fatally punctured the rear tire. I put the spare on and finally made it to my destination. Next day I went to get a replacement tire. I figured that since it has the tire & handling package that the tires might be a little bit more expensive due to the size of P255x65x15.

First tire store says "Are you sure that is the size?" Yeah, I checked just before I walked in. He goes out to look at the tires. Sure enough. He says the only place you can get those is at a Goodyear store. Nobody makes a tire that size. This is the first sign that the price just went up.

The Goodyear store was literally next door. Walked over and asked for a price on the tire. The guy rummages through the price book. $205 but I can give you a discount today. Tire, stem, balancing, disposal fee including "today's discount" : $178.98 for one tire!!! I had a road trip the next day so I cough up the money.

I am thinking about changing from 255x65x15 to 265x75x15 to help fill out the fender well and improve the gas mileage (going on the idea that the taller side walls would make the circumference larger meaning farther travel per axle rotation).
Aside from having to have the odometer recalibrated, does anyone see any glaring problems with the new tire size.

akula2 · September 2001

resqman; when you go to a larger circumference tire, you in effect raise the gearing of your rear end thus reducing the pulling power of your vehicle. Something to consider if you decide to go that route.

wetwillie · September 2001

Resqman, I agree with you in that the wheel openings need to be filled out a bit, but man, going to a 265/75 is a radical change. If you have a 3.55 rearend the larger tire would change that to an effective 3.25 - too high for a truck IMHO. If you have the 3.92, well that's a different story. If you have the 3.55, you might want to give 255/70 a go. It's a plentiful size with good variety and decent prices. BTW, you really did get beat on that replacement tire - you can get that same tire at Tirerack for about half of that. (not that this has ever happened to me!)

bpeebles · September 2001

Lets not forget that any tire-diamater change REQUIRES the onboard computer to be re-programmed lest the ABS brakes may malfunction.
(Per BOB!)

bpeebles · September 2001

There was NEVER a question in my mind that the 4.7L V8 HEMI was a HEMI through and through.

I saw this artical during my extensive research prior to deciding on purchasing my Dak.

You mis-interperted about the main bearings tho...
That "one piece 5 main bearing bottom end of the crank 'that'is glued in place with bathtub caulking" is actually a trick from RACING engines. There are almost 20 bolts holding this engine skirt to the block. The adhesive is there to ENSURE that the bottom-end is bulletproof. There is virtually NO twisting of this block under stress. The skirt is also made from nodular castiron and graphite!!

(BTW the ol 1960's-based "LA" V8s from Dodge [318, 360] are KNOWN to be hard on the main bearings due to harmonics and block twisting.)

As for the oil pump... it is NOT an AMC unit... instead, it is a brilliant design borrowed from AMC. A GEROTOR pump driven off of the CRANK that eliminates about 5 power-robbing, friction-causing mechanical linkages!

mopar67 · September 2001

Here's what was replaced:
Rotors
Drums
PAds
Shoes
The pads and shoes are made from a different compound that is supposed to dissipate heat better than what was on there.
The dealer even washed the truck and I paid nothing for this (other than aggravation but how do you put a price on that?)
Hope this fixes it and I can go back to driving with ease. I will say this, the bounce and shudder is gone and braking is smooth once again.
WIll it last? Hmmm.......jury is out on that one.

SNOWCOUNTRY.....reply bpeebles is right, keep in mind for YEARS, japanese bikes with 4 cyl motors had the "split case design" and those engines often saw the high side of 9,000 rpm on a regular basis.
Two things I DONT like on this engine are the delicate magnesium valve covers to which the BOB states nothing should rest on them lest a hole be worn thru. Stamped steel never had that issue. Second, the idea of non replaceable valve guides is baloney! Especially when you can re do valve guides on a lawnmower engine. The BOB states if the valve guides are worn beyond acceptable limits, then the entire head must be replaced. All I hope is that aftermarketers figure out how to get around that.
Otherwise it appears to be a good engine, if a bit quirky at times. Lets hope it gets a good rep for durability, it seems to have all the ingredients for that.

tuvtest · September 2001

I have a 4.7l,5spd,3.55 rear QC, which was quickly shod with 32"x11.5"-15 BF Goodrich All-Terrains soon after purchase. I have not calculated the change in overall gear ratio, but with the stick, IMHO, there is no problem with acceleration or pulling power. The only problem I have found is the need for slight clearancing on the front-lower-inner corners of the plastic wheelwell. there is a bit of rubbing when the wheel is at fuul lock otherwise. A re-flashing of the PCM to accomodate the new tire size ran $34, and brought speedo accuracy within 1 mph (thank you, officer....) The larger tire does fill out the wheel well quite nicely, giving the truck a bit more aggressive stance.

fvracer · September 2001

I checked the tires.com add in the current issue of Truckin' magazine, and Pirelli makes a Scorpion Zero tire in a 255/65HR-15 size for $89/tire. Several manufactures make 255/60-15 and 255/70-15 tires. I would check the diameter and circumference of these to see if they are close to what you have. The only thing that matters is that the diameter/circumference matches what you have and I have noticed that there are significant differences among tire manufacturers of the same size tire.

ahasher · September 2001

is the crank sensor failed... hmm waiting on parts.. hopefully tomorrow...

Film at 11

bpeebles · September 2001

Makes sense now... When the crankshaft Position Sensor failed, it took the PCM a second to go into 'limp' mode during which time it may have mis-fired a sparkplug and backfired thru the intake.

The crank sensor has a TSB on ot for clearance problems anyway. (the 'tonewheel' hits it in some engines)

TECHNICAL QUESTION OF THE DAY; (for 100 extra points)
Without the CrankPositionSensor how does the PCM decide to fire the plugs and injectors?

ahasher · September 2001

for the explanation... I had feared the worst. However, can there be any residual problems from the failure.. ot was it 'self contained" and only need a new sensor?

mopar67 · September 2001

TECHNICAL QUESTION OF THE DAY; (for 100 extra points)
Without the CrankPositionSensor how does the PCM decide to fire the plugs and injectors?

It refers to pre set programing schedule.

ahasher · September 2001

so thats how I was able to get to the dealer with no apparent problems, as long as i kept the speed modest.
Well my DAK is ready and waiting; I'll go get her at lunch.

dodgetrukn · September 2001

Had to reschedule my appt in 2 weeks to put synthetic and friction modifier in my 3.92 LSD rear, as I could not meet my first appt. Called again to confirm time and date.
Service guy asked me "both differentials"? I told them NO. Figure simple knowledge that
I am not going to tow >2000 lbs in 4 wheel drive at 60mph, but why does he ask?
Does anyone put synthetic in the front diff? or is it suggested in BOB?
Figure just trying to get my goat, or make $$ Starting to get that "incompetence training"
feeling from my dealership.
Ger

victx · September 2001

Can you tell me how the dealer corrected your speedo for the new tires. I have a '01 QC 4x4. I had the 265/70/16 tires as original equipment. I upgraded to 265/75/16 BFG A/T KOs which equates to a 32"tire. I went to the dealership to have them re-program the PCM. The shop manager told me he could only change the tire size in the computer to one of the factory options. I already had the biggest tire of the factory options, so no changes were made. It's a small time dealership. Did your dealership do something different? I'm frustrated because I'm sure there is another way to update the PCM for these tires, but my dealer says it can't be done.

bpeebles · September 2001

(mopar67) You are correct that a "pre set programing schedule" is what many folks call the 'limp' mode.

My question was meant to ask;
How does the PCM know what position the crank is in to fire the plugs and injectors without a crank-position sensor?

For example... if the throttle position sensor fails... The PCM can calculate an approximate throttle position based on intake air density, intake vacuum, and engine speed sensors.

Thusly, if the crank-position sensor is shot... what existing inputs are used to figure out when to fire the plugs and injectors?

There needs to be SOME trigger that tells the PCM when the pistons are on the compression stroke.

(This is why this question is worth 100 points)

mopar67 · September 2001

would be the camshaft reference sensor which would tell the PCM where the intake/exhaust valves are in relation to the piston.
ta da!
I know cause I had to get mine replaced about 90 days or so after I bought my truck. It made the MIL light illuminate then when it really gave up the ghost, it made the MIL light flash regularly.

bpeebles · September 2001

Good job! Not many folks realize that the 4.7L V8 hemi has BOTH a crank position sensor and camshaft-position sensors.

When I first read this in the BOB, I thought that this was overkill because either one of these sensors would be enough to run the engine. In fact... most engines use just a crank-sensor or cam-sensor to calculate all spark and injector firing.

I am now convinced that this is another brilliant design on the 4.7L V8 hemi. Without this redundancy, one would be STUCK with a non-running engine due to a sensor-failure. With the 4.7L... one merely gets a MIL and can continue to drive in 'limp mode'.

Also, using both of these sensors. the onboard computer can determine if the timing-chain and all related linkages are properly functioning.

Dodge Dakota: Problems & Solutions

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