Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    AVCS too, to help with the low – mid range power.

    Bob
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    When the new H6 OB wagon comes out she will give it another try. She is pretty attached to her 2k OB Ltd. with the PII H4. Says the car is perfect except the 165hp pulling 3600lbs. Since we do 90% highway driving off hours a little more power is not all that much of a need. In her words "I want a lot closer to 300hp in my next car.". See, thats why I married her :) Its that true kina love too.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Oz-spec Forester 2.5XT teaser site...

    http://subaru.com.au/news/?newsid=11831

    Cheers!
    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    VERY(!) interesting...

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=38174

    Remember our discussions here a few months back, regarding Subaru changing their current model names to an alpha-numeric system, like that favored by the Europeans? It may begin with the new crossover. Remember Subaru copyrighted the name "B9" recently? According to this link, that could be the crossover.

    Bob
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    Leave it to Subaru to be different. Most companies try to find aggressive or exciting names for their cars. Would you really be happy driving a "Benign"?
    ;-)

    Ross
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru bosses say they want to move out from the shadow of the Impreza Turbo's hardcore image and step into the premium market.

    In a recent interview, Hisashi Miyazaki, general manager of Subaru's product and portfolio planing division, also said that the whole strategy behind the Impreza was being re-considered, hinting that the next-generation Impreza could be quite a different car

    Elsewhere at Subaru, bosses are non-committal when asked if the company will continue it's cooperation with Saab. A replacement for the next year's 9-2 could be needed by 2006.


    Frankly, I'm not surprised. I think the B11S is just the first of several new concept vehicles that are designed to prepare the public for some radical changes from Subaru.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester is 3, Impreza is 5, Legacy is 7 and the new SUV is 9

    This supports Bob's conspiracy theory about the WRX perhaps getting more power. The Forester is bigger, yet its lower in that numerical lineup. The STi is too rare to put the entire lineup above the Forester. 2.5T, then?

    250hp H6 in the 7 passenger sounds good, and we'll see it as early as January 2003? Sweet. It won't arrive until 2004.

    They also mention a 3.6l version of the engine. They must stroke it, but then it'll only fit in wider platforms, like the 9 and 11.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    sweet_subie, I didn't think the STi article was bad at all. It recognized the STi for what it is; very nearly a street-legal race car. The only downside I see is one many here do: that the bigger hood scoop and wing make, ahem, the not-so-young or not-so-young at heart uncomfortable to be seen in the car.

    Ed
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Anybody see the sketch mentioned in the AutoExpress article? Newsstand here is hit or miss getting this mag. Sounds great but I'm sure the price would be well north of 40K here in Canada......too pricey for us. Of more interest would be the two-box vehicle that was rumored to be being considered for the Impreza platform...a lengthened Impreza chasis with the ruggedness of a Forester in a tall wagon/mini-minivan format.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That Justy is a lot better than the current one, but still, it's badge engineering. The C-pillar resembles the one from the Mercedes ML.

    7 passenger sketch? Where?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    So much for the hoped for state-of-the-art small Subie, with a boxer engine. :(

    Bob
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Mention of sketch was in Bob's Auto Express link
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=38174 above:
    "Auto Express magazine has an exclusive first sketch of the new car, based on information from sources inside Subaru. The as-yet-unnamed SUV..."
    It's a British publication that we get at some of the better newstands/bookstores here in Toronto but it's usually a few weeks to a month old and somewhat sporadic (ie we don't seem to get every issue). Hope the sketch will turn up on the net sometime soon.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe it was quarantined? Subaru wanted them to hold off?

    -juice
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    From time to time, Auto Express's internet articles mention sketches or pix "in the current issue"......meaning you have to buy the mag to see them.....they are not available in the internet edition.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Forester is 3, Impreza is 5, Legacy is 7 and the new SUV is 9

    Interesting. I would have thought the numbering is based on size rather than output. The Forester and Impreza should be flipped, IMO.

    Even if it was based on power output, the WRX is not the entire Impreza line.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Same here, Ken.

    The Forester XT is bigger, quicker, and more expensive than the WRX. Doesn't sound like a lower-end model, does it?

    -juice
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Aeroplane Jelly is Jell-o to you. It is an Australian icon like Vegemite, not leat because the makers had a great jingle "I like Aeroplane Jelly, Aeroplane Jelly for me..." Perhaps that does not come through too well without the music, but very popular down under.

    XT is out here in a fortnight and latest tip is that Liberty (Legacy) will be released in September.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    "I like Aeroplane Jelly, Aeroplane Jelly for me..." Perhaps that does not come through too well without the music...

    do ya think? :lol:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    September? Wow, I guess we'll only get once SoA is sure the bugs are worked out. This market doesn't forgive as easily.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    but did anyone notice that this report suggests that the new 7-passenger crossover, may indeed be more off-road-ready than any Subie yet offered?

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/

    Go to: News > News Archieve > July 10, 2003

    Subaru Muddies The Waters

    Watch out Land Rover, Subaru is heading off-road. Having been crowned king of the tarmac with its high-performance Impreza range, the firm's new SUV aims to take on all-comers in the rough stuff.

    Auto Express magazine has an exclusive first sketch of the new car, based on information from sources inside Subaru. The as-yet-unnamed SUV will be developed on a revised version of the current Legacy platform, and feature a rugged-looking body with three rows of seats.

    Expected to debut at January's Detroit Motor Show, the car will go on sale in 2005. Crucially, the SUV will be the first model to include significant design input from new chief stylist Andreas Zapatinas, and as such will be a test of the company's future design direction.

    The first cars are to be powered by a still-secret 250bhp 3.0-litre flat-six engine. However, to make a mark in this competitive segment, Subaru realises it must have more power, and is working on a larger 3.6-litre version. Sources confirm that it will be naturally aspirat-ed and generate in excess of 300bhp.

    The off-roader is further evidence of Subaru's ambitious plans to revolutionise its entire model line-up. This started when it unveiled the 400bhp B11S concept, which hinted at a possible future flagship, at this year's Geneva Motor Show. Inside Subaru, this four-door coupé is referred to as 11 - hence B11S - while other models have been given similar codenames. Forester is 3, Impreza is 5, Legacy is 7 and the new SUV is 9. There's speculation that these will ultimately form a new badging system for all Subarus, with the company swapping names for numbers. Peter Lyon


    Sounds like a cross between the Pilot and Touareg. Maybe(?) a tad smaller if it's based off the new Legacy/Outback, as is mentioned here.

    If this is true, it would bode well for the next-generation Baja, assuming of course, that it too would be based off this crossover platform.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If that's true, it'll sell like hot cakes.

    My only fear is price, if it's a mid $30s vehicle it'll be a bit out of reach for a lot of us.

    Give it 8" of clearance with the self-leveling rear shocks, a low range, and a 247hp H6 standard (more power optional). Make the wheelbase pretty long so the overhangs aren't like the Outback, limiting angles of approach/departure.

    But equip it like the standard H6 Outback for starters, cloth and no moonroof. Then make leather and the roof stand-alone options.

    I don't want to be forced to get a $4000 Macintosh stereo just to get a few desirable options.

    -juice
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    1) Weight. If its a real 7 passenger hauler and be comfortable for 5 then its going to hit 4500lbs. Yikes!!!!
    2) Power: 250hp will be enough if its priced in the in the low $30s as people will live with the lack of power.
    3) Getting attention: If we are talking about more than $35k it better show up with no less than 300hp. Just another crossover/SUV will not make it a sell. A nice 300+hp number will at least get it attention. The Volvo V70 R wagon did just that. 300hp, AWD, 6spd, + some options for about $40k. Thats pretty cool.
    4) Options: Exactly what Juice said. Get the important stuff standard. Dont pack options.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    will be all important. By the time it debuts, the market will be flooded with crossovers. It's got to offer something the other don't. I have long thought that there is a niche market that falls in between current crossovers and traditional truck-based SUVs. I hope that's where Subaru is headed. The VW Touareg falls into that category, IMO. It's far more capable than any current crossover, yet is quite car-like at the same time. It's just too expensive, as VW is pushing it as a luxury SUV.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Shouldn't be that heavy. My trooper is only 4515 and that's with a full box frame and solid rear axle, etc. It can definitely be done for well under 4500lbs. I'd say 4000 max.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think this was posted several months back, but I'm not sure. And, yeah, if you scroll down, you will see a whole bunch of B-names that Subaru has copyrighted. Whether they use those names for production vehicles, only time will tell. If, however, the crossover does get the B9 name (as is the latest rumor), I think it's pretty much a given that the other models will switch over also. It make take a few years, and probably will occur when an existing model is about to be replaced.

    http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?tm200301.html

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    but my guess is probably a bit more.

    Out of curiosity I wanted to check the V6 Touareg's curb weight, and it's heavy, at 5086 pounds. Also noted a 1400 pound payload and 7716 towing.

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/volkswagen/touareg/100303029/spec- - s.html?tid=edmunds.n.prices.leftsidenav..8.Volkswagen*

    I'd be very surprised if the Subaru crossover is anywhere near that heavy.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/subaru/outback/100159773/specs.ht- ml?tid=edmunds.n.prices.leftsidenav..8.Subaru*

    Based on the weights of the Trooper, Touareg, Pilot and H-6 VDC, I bet the new Subie crossover weighs in at ~ 4300 pounds.

    Bob
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    AND capable off road. If its both then it will not be too much lighter than an Explorer, Envoy/Trailblazer, Pacifica etc. I suspect they are all around 4500-4700 lbs.
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Subaru Muddies The Waters

    I agree with nematode, it needs to be a serious 7 passenger vehicle and a serious off-road vehicle to be some individuality in the SUV space. I returned from a Shenandoah Valley camping trip in the GT and I'll add a self-leveling rear suspension (a la JDM and AU) to my wish list. The chicanes on Rt 211 up and over the mountains were a hoot!

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    Im betting Subaru has identified their target market: all those folks who would never have thought of buying a Subaru: Americans with way more money than sense! You know, all the folks who have been buying Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators. Those folks' leases on their giant luxury SUV's are running out now and they are lining up to pay MSRP or whateveritcost to lease a Cayenne, and Infinity X45 or a VolvoV90, or if they still have six months on their lease, they are eyeing that Audi A7. These folks arent quite ready to be seen riding in a VW, no matter how much more reliable a Touareg is likely to be. A Chrysler Pacifica? not unless their wife will be driving it!
        Will they but a Subaru? Only if has 300+ HP and every fancy option known to man. Yeah...I'm guessing it will be priced beyond the current Subaru owner's budget.
    Mark
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Long time, no see, no read... Good to hear from you again. :)

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just checked their web site, and they got a bunch in, most are at the Gathersburg location.

    There's also a 35th Anniversary Edition H-6 Outback this year. It's most likely the cloth-seat H-6, judging by the way it's priced. The '04 Legacy L-SE is also now called just the '35th Anniversary Edition.'

    An easy way to spot the '04 Outback is to look for chrome vehicle badging instead of the previous gold badging.

    Bob
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Thanks, I couldn't stay away with the 2.5 turbo so close..

    Tischer in Silver Spring, MD has the MY04 WRX (old news?). The new front end looks nice (though I had no problem with the last one).

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The 2.5 turbo is here in the Forester & STi, but you already knew that. You oughta try the Forester XT 5-speed, just to wet your whistle... ;)

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...blinks repeatedly* Hi Mike, and welcome to last month! LOL good to have ya back, buddy.

    oh and I believe you'll enjoy whetting your whistle more than wetting it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You know vacations ets. :)

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I meant Mr. Smith.... heh heh
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    at least until someone in the aftermarket fixes that handling, then I'm toast. Well, unless a Legacy GT with the same heart and price shows up.
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    its own smaller Mitsubishi Heavy Industries intercooled turbo, a unit that produces faster throttle response and spool-up than the IHI unit.

    Oops, maybe C&D meant a Fuji Heavy Industries turbo. What, FHI makes turbos? Is this true? I couldn't see the manufacturing plate on the turbo when I showed the XT's motor to my kids at Tischer. Actually, I showed them the "hot - don't touch" icons on the turbo's heat shield.

    >welcome to last month!
    Yes, I admit to being a Rumpel Stilskin.

    Bob: I meant the *real* 2.5 turbo, the 250hp. <g>

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    This may have been discussed but I'm hesitant to buy a release 1.0 turbo 2.5l motor. The 2.5l has a history but in NA dress. Compare the 2.0l turbo with a long track record. How suitable is the 2.5l block for turbocharging?

    ..Mike

  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Surbaru seems to be on a real weight reduction crusade as of late, so I doubt the new "B9" will be the heavyweight of the class.....I bet it will come in around 4000-4200 max......all the better as far as I'm concerned.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    I recall seeing an artilce that addressed your concerns. All the 2.5T internals are strengthened, and I think the article said the block was now a full closed-deck design, but I could be confusing that with another item I read.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Reminder: Mike = Smith, mike = paisan. Lower case for the latter.

    And all the other Mikes (and Daves)? Good luck! :-)

    Mike: go drive the XT, it *has* 250hp, I swear. I don't believe Subaru's claim for a second.

    Other examples of understating HP: Neon SRT-5, BMW M3, NSX, JDM WRX STi, etc.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Mike: go drive the XT, it *has* 250hp, I swear. I don't believe Subaru's claim for a second.
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