she can't make up her mind. She claims to not like the Pilot, yet would like a 150% Element. I think what it comes down to is that she wants some of this new age styling ala Murano, etc. She finally told me the Suburban was too big, and then all these other "I like"s started coming out. I told her that some people were saying that the Subaru 7 seater looked like the Murano from the side and that got a positive response, but I need to do something a little sooner than that. Perfect example of being a little late to the SUV/Crossover ballgame.
late to the game. definitely. And might not even make it to bat if the report I heard on the radio this morning is true and gas goes up another 40 cents before the end of the year!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
but it's apparently a concept with people who "have heard from dealers that have seen it" saying that it resembles the Murano from the side. The concept in the picture has a B11S-like grill, and the people who have seen it say it carries over to the real deal fairly intact.
Let's say they did make a 3 door hatchback, then. Should they sell it in the US? Maybe not, at first. Sell it in Europe and maybe even campaign it on WRC.
If it does well in WRC, then there'd be demand. If it performed at very high levels, people may not even care, and they could sell it right off the bat.
But look at the Civic Si. Great little car, fun, quick, cheap, and it's still not selling. I use this example specifically because Bob likes it and I don't. Dealers cannot give them away. The previous Si coupe had no such problem.
So I think a base 2.5l hatchback should not be offered in the US. Maybe short wheelbase performance models only, less weight, better turn in, etc.
I think that yellow one is a photochop. I wonder if we'll get the toned down front-end, like the R2/R1e and B9 Scrambler.
I noticed none of the pictures show the top - is it a soft top? It has a hard tonneau cover, so if so it tucks away neatly. I wonder if the concept has a top at all.
A very large percentage of the vehicles in Europe are either hatchbacks or small wagons, there is a Civic hatchback 5 door, and you cannot tell from looking at it that it is not a sedan the rear door Is so cleverly designed.
But I think it also has a lot to do with the cost of gas, people there want a small car that will do it all, haul people and their stuff, the gas guzzling monsters that the average American wants will never make in large numbers over there.
Trucks there as well as large SUVs are considered work vehicles and need to pay their way, very few people would have a truck as an everyday vehicle.
I think when Subaru means they are moving upscale, VW (as it currently stands) is sort of what Subaru is shooting for; more upscale than Subaru currently is, but not way upscale like some others. Subaru will be moving upscale in gradual steps. It won't be one giant leap into Mercedes S-Class league, not by a long shot.
Speaking of Mercedes: They have stated that the next-generation A-Class, which will be slight larger than the current version, will be coming to the USA. Yet another hatchback from a premium brand...
Umm, Bob? I heard they waited for the next A-class so they could style it like an SUV. Let's see what it looks like - I don't think it'll look like a hatch at all.
I can see Subaru being the "Japanese VW", i.e. a step up from the mainstream brands, but with better reliability.
Audi is too small to be their goal, I guess. But they are sportier, and VW leans towards luxury, supposedly. So maybe "Japanese Audi"?
In the past I've heard them compared to Saab, due to their quirky nature, and Porsche, for their boxer engines.
I can - and sort of do - see Subaru as the Japanese Audi, especially since I noticed the similarities when I cross-shopped them. If Audi had better long-term reliability and maintenance costs, they could be considered the German Subaru.
juice: Yes, that's a theory, but I wouldn't feel comfortable extending it to all Subaru owners - the financial part, that is. I do think of them as Audis with fewer hassles, fewer creature comforts to be sure but also maybe a little less pretense.
Ken: Think about the old Beetle and the 360 and consider VW and Subaru were once even closer conceptually. I could draw analogies between Subaru and Saab (aviation heritage) and Subaru and Studebaker (hill-holder clutch) but that'd be a stretch.
BTW, does anyone else find Saab's "Welcome to the state of independence" ads among the most ironic in the industry?
Good point, Bob. I think Saab could really fill the gaps, the moonroof being just one example. Offer HIDs, Navigation, etc. Those who want it can pay more and get it. The rest of us can stick with good ol' Subies.
Harley Earl is turning in his grave, at least if he saw the new Rainier commercial. Shameful.
Haven't seen that ad, juice, and even though I don't live in the PNW I've been there enough to associate the name Rainier with cheap beer. How many ways can you rebadge a Blazer? Sheesh.
With the number of problems that Audi have MB as well, they need to offer an all inclusive warranty BMW maintenance costs are out of this world I think Colin can attest to that.
I give this only slightly more consideration than the possibility of cold fusion powered cars in the next few years, but someone over at NASIOC who claims to have connections at a dealership or SOA says that Subaru is in the testing phases with a new H8. Maybe your 5.0XTB11Swhatever will be a reality. News and Rumors, if anyone is interested. This guy might get flamed beyond belief, I dunno.
Over at the "other site," in the "News & Rumors" area, there's a new image of the upcoming crossover. It's on the cover of the Japanese auto magazine "DRIVER," and it's a very small image. There's also an enlarged version which is extremely low-res and pixelated. However, if you study it, you can make out some of the details.
Yes it looks similar to the yellow sketch that has been posted here on Edmunds and elsewhere. The grille is clearly B11S-like, but unlike the sketch, the vehicle looks much more graceful; and the grille, while still very dominant, seems better integrated. Still, because the image is so poor, it's not possible to get a good feeling for the overall look yet. However, I'm beginning to feel more positive from what little I can make out.
Pat - I thought of something. Lots of those problems seem to be electrical, I wonder if the luxury makes have just gone beyond what a 14.4 volt system can offer? I know they've been wanted more juice for a while. Just a thought.
H8? Yummy. Some might pronounce it "hate", though.
Colin: cappuccino while you wait in our lounge? Price? If you have to ask, you can't afford it! ;-)
Crossover: wow, that grills is really in your face! Insert Ed's obligatory bathroom scale comment. I like it, but the wife likely won't.
It's more B11S than B9 or even R2/R1e. I was hoping for the latter because my wife is pretty conservative. Still, I'm next in line and I like it.
Did you look at that "C" pillar? I know it's a lousy image, but I think I see a hint of a possible extra suicide door just past the "C" pillar, like that found on the B11S. If it's not an extra door, there appears to be something unusual with the rear quarter window; not sure what it is??
Bathroom scale? At that resolution it looks like a pig's snout. The rest of the pic is reminiscent of an X5 or Cayenne.
I am trying to convince myself that the "wings" of the grille remind me of the 1956-61 Studebaker Hawks or the Sunbeam Rapier Series III of the same time period. Otherwise I don't think I can digest this new design direction.
I think I'll reserve any judgement untill I can really see something. Who knows where this picture came from, the resolution is so low that it could have been some grade school kid's art project. I think it looks comepletely different than the greeny yellow one whose picture has been around. This version seems much more angular, and the grille thing seems to be a lot more prominent and flows up onto the hood. I smell Photoshop. By the way Bob, whether the photo shows it or not, the idea of a small suicide door to allow ingress for the rearmost passengers is a great one. I don't think anybody else is doing this in this vehicle configuration. This could be the feature that adds the Subaru uniqueness to this model. H-8? OMG! Juice, if this comes to be, there will be people pronouncing it 'hate'. Namely, owners of V-8s. Paisan must be drooling, thinking of the potential torque output of this engine. What is Subaru going to use for a tranny though? Owen
the cover of DRIVER magazine, which is a Japanese car magazine. It was used very small on the cover. This image you see is the same image enlarged a whole lot. This is what happens (in terms of quality) when you enlarge a "pixel" image a whole bunch.
I'm with Owen on reserving judgement for a clearer picture of what we're looking at. The new grill looks huge in that picture. The profile shot is very X5. If they add a small suicide door behind the second full door that would be a great idea. Hopefully the grill is a whole lot more subdued than that.
Definitely have to wait for some better pix. Can anyone else see what look to be nostrils in the "pig's snout"? This has to be photoshopped (and a bad one at that). I'll stick with the yellow one for now......maybe I'll try to change the colour of that one in photoshop.
I'm going to email you a photo"chop" of the yellow one in a kind of blue (although it came out kind of grayish purple....my photo"chop" skills are somewhat lacking, plus I have only a stripped-down version of the program). I also reduced the schnoz by about 20%. It's a little crude but you get the idea. I don't have a photo-hosting site to post it but if you think it's worthwhile, perhaps you could. Cheers.
You may have a point, electrical gremlins seem to be the achilles heel of most of the luxury brands, Jaguar is another mark that comes to mind, but then when I think of it none of the luxury Japanese brands are afflicted with electrical problems that I know of, so It must come down to inferior subsystems.
Comments
The Bora Variant isn't sold in the UK but the Golf Variant is. I'll never understand auto companies.
And it sounds to me like the vehicle your wife wants is alot like the Pilot.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Jim
late to the game. definitely. And might not even make it to bat if the report I heard on the radio this morning is true and gas goes up another 40 cents before the end of the year!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Jim
http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/76/SubaruSUV_450.- jpg
Jim
If it does well in WRC, then there'd be demand. If it performed at very high levels, people may not even care, and they could sell it right off the bat.
But look at the Civic Si. Great little car, fun, quick, cheap, and it's still not selling. I use this example specifically because Bob likes it and I don't. Dealers cannot give them away. The previous Si coupe had no such problem.
So I think a base 2.5l hatchback should not be offered in the US. Maybe short wheelbase performance models only, less weight, better turn in, etc.
I think that yellow one is a photochop. I wonder if we'll get the toned down front-end, like the R2/R1e and B9 Scrambler.
-juice
-juice
-juice
But I think it also has a lot to do with the cost of gas, people there want a small car that will do it all, haul people and their stuff, the gas guzzling monsters that the average American wants will never make in large numbers over there.
Trucks there as well as large SUVs are considered work vehicles and need to pay their way, very few people would have a truck as an everyday vehicle.
Cheers Pat.
Speaking of Mercedes: They have stated that the next-generation A-Class, which will be slight larger than the current version, will be coming to the USA. Yet another hatchback from a premium brand...
Bob
Jim
I can see Subaru being the "Japanese VW", i.e. a step up from the mainstream brands, but with better reliability.
Audi is too small to be their goal, I guess. But they are sportier, and VW leans towards luxury, supposedly. So maybe "Japanese Audi"?
In the past I've heard them compared to Saab, due to their quirky nature, and Porsche, for their boxer engines.
-juice
Ed
VPs and above here at work get the only reserved parking spots, and in those 5 or so spots sit an SVX and an Outback. You may be onto something...
Some may just figure it's like an Audi with fewer hassles, perhaps?
-juice
Bob
I wonder if the 9-2X will feature the same sliver-sized moonroof on the WRX sedan.
Ken
Ken: Think about the old Beetle and the 360 and consider VW and Subaru were once even closer conceptually. I could draw analogies between Subaru and Saab (aviation heritage) and Subaru and Studebaker (hill-holder clutch) but that'd be a stretch.
BTW, does anyone else find Saab's "Welcome to the state of independence" ads among the most ironic in the industry?
Ed
-Colin
Harley Earl is turning in his grave, at least if he saw the new Rainier commercial. Shameful.
Saab's offense is minor in comparison.
-juice
Ed
-juice
Bob
Premium gas. ;-)
-juice
Cheers Pat.
Doesn't the LL Bean come with 2 years free service? Strange that it does and the VDC doesn't.
It's something for Subaru to consider if they move upscale. The top tier luxury manufacturers do it.
-juice
Jim
My local dealership is awesome though. I wouldn't tolerate the fees they charge if they treated me like the local Subaru dealership.
-Colin
Yes it looks similar to the yellow sketch that has been posted here on Edmunds and elsewhere. The grille is clearly B11S-like, but unlike the sketch, the vehicle looks much more graceful; and the grille, while still very dominant, seems better integrated. Still, because the image is so poor, it's not possible to get a good feeling for the overall look yet. However, I'm beginning to feel more positive from what little I can make out.
Bob
H8? Yummy. Some might pronounce it "hate", though.
Colin: cappuccino while you wait in our lounge? Price? If you have to ask, you can't afford it! ;-)
Crossover: wow, that grills is really in your face! Insert Ed's obligatory bathroom scale comment. I like it, but the wife likely won't.
It's more B11S than B9 or even R2/R1e. I was hoping for the latter because my wife is pretty conservative. Still, I'm next in line and I like it.
-juice
Bob
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid86/pfb3e6d3a39590341f066- 1f3281d834ac/fab2b045.jpg
It *does* look like there's an extra seam there. Could be a shadow, who knows, it's hard to tell.
The back is not square. :-(
-juice
What are those white skirts under the front? Wierd.
I see X5 in the profile, with that bulge running down the side.
Ground clearance looks good.
The windshield and rear window are both raked, more than I'd like actually. Looks more Sport than Utility.
That one guy said it was a cross between a mininvan and an SUV, I don't see any minivan influence at all.
Thoughts?
-juice
Eric
I am trying to convince myself that the "wings" of the grille remind me of the 1956-61 Studebaker Hawks or the Sunbeam Rapier Series III of the same time period. Otherwise I don't think I can digest this new design direction.
Ed
H-8? OMG! Juice, if this comes to be, there will be people pronouncing it 'hate'. Namely, owners of V-8s. Paisan must be drooling, thinking of the potential torque output of this engine. What is Subaru going to use for a tranny though?
Owen
Not sure which one I like better. I'd have to see the yellow one in other colors first. The red one looks bigger, though.
-juice
Bob
-Ian
-Dennis
Bob
I'm sure the production model will look nothing like any of these, but it's fun to speculate, no? ;-)
-juice
Edit: looks improved with the smaller grille. The color doesn't look right, maybe it's the image quality on my screen.
-juice
Cheers Pat.
-juice