That seat release was very cool. I tried it out several times. Wish I had that in my Forester right now -- it's a pain to have to go through the rear doors to release the seats..
SUBARU RELEASES STATEMENT REGARDING 2005 MY OUTBACK CLASSIFICATION
CHERRY HILL, N.J., Jan. 13, 2004 – Subaru of America, Inc. today released the following statement in response to various media reports regarding the vehicle classification of its new Outback Wagon and Sedan:
The primary reason the 2005 model year Outback will be classified according to NHTSA as a light duty truck is because it was completely redesigned to meet customer demand for more SUV-type features.
Subaru pioneered the crossover vehicle category back in 1995 with the Legacy Outback - the World's First Sport Utility Wagon. Today, the crossover category is the fastest growing segment in the auto industry. Through our market research, we know that customers don't want to sacrifice fuel economy, comfort, ease of entry, or ride quality; but desire SUV-like features such as dark-tinted side rear windows, higher ground clearance, and approach and departure angles suitable for off-road driving. Customers frequently choose Subaru Outback over conventional truck-based SUVs because of its outstanding fuel economy, performance, handling, and safety. The new Outback will continue to deliver the best of both worlds to the popular cross-over segment and remain a strong alternative to SUVs.
The new Outback, to debut at the Chicago Auto Show in early February, was designed to be a light duty truck. In fact, both the Outback Wagon and Sedan will exceed the NHTSA light duty truck standards on 4 of 5 requirements including break over angle, departure angle, running clearance, and axle clearance.
Subaru has always made fuel economy a top priority in its product development process. Subaru has a track record of producing superior crossover vehicles that meet stringent federal safety and emissions standards. The new Outback is no exception. The base model Outback is expected to have improved gas mileage for model year 2005, while we will also offer a model with enhanced performance characteristics for those customers that have expressed that desire. The new Outback Wagon and Sedan will meet federal emissions standards for light duty truck – which is as stringent as emission standards for light duty vehicles as defined by the EPA and ARB. However, final testing by the EPA for emissions compliance and fuel economy label calculations for model year 2005 Outback has not yet been completed and therefore is not available.
Subaru is committed to developing advanced technologies that improve fuel economy and emissions as evidenced by the new Sequential Series Hybrid Electric (SSHEV) propulsion system in the B9SC and the urban commuter electric vehicle R1e concept cars featured at this year’s Detroit Auto Show. In addition, the new Outback released later this year will feature advanced engine technologies such as Active Valve Control System (AVCS) that improves overall engine efficiency. Further, the newly designed Outback body structure reduces overall vehicle weight by as much as 180 pounds.
Subaru always has been and will continue to be committed to safeguarding the natural environment that so many of our customers avidly enjoy.
About Subaru of America, Inc. Subaru of America, Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. of Japan. Headquartered near Philadelphia, the company markets and distributes all-wheel drive Subaru vehicles, parts and accessories through a network of nearly 600 dealers across the United States. Subaru is the only car company that offers symmetrical all-wheel drive as standard equipment on every vehicle in its product line. For additional information please visit www.media.subaru.com.
"... but desire SUV-like features such as dark-tinted side rear windows, higher ground clearance, and approach and departure angles suitable for off-road driving"
Hmmm... all true no doubt but how many prospective buyers (Paisan excluded) even know what an approach or departure angle is, much less ask for better ones?
It appears SOA is trying to get away with telling half-truths but ignoring the really pertinent details (i.e. it's the fuel economy, stupid).
I know I'd have more respect for SOA if they just admitted that they were sick of being the only manufacturer who tried to comply with the spirit of the law and now they were going to act like all the rest and comply strictly with the letter of the law. But then again, I guess honesty doesn't get you very far in this world :-(
"The base model Outback is expected to have improved gas mileage for model year 2005, while we will also offer a model with enhanced performance characteristics for those customers that have expressed that desire."
i like their answer. We are evironmentaly sensitive unlike ford, GM by doing: 1. AVCS 2. loss of 180 lbs 3. showed hybrid engines. (wonder if this will make it to 7-seater one day ). But, we will have to offer what our customers want.
They could have said, it is unfair that Outback's competitors are classified as light trucks & it is being disadvantaged....they touched upon that point lightly.
"The media, cowardly as they are, pick on the small company instead of Chrysler."
You're looking through Subie colored glasses. The reason the media jumped on this is due to the whole SUV backlash happening now and the fact that Subaru has tried to identify itself as the anti-SUV for years. The PT and Pacifica were designed from the get go to be classified as trucks - not morphing from a car into a truck. Subaru is now having what they have called a CAR classified as a truck in order to meet "consumer demand" for SUV features. The real story here is that the Outback sedan will be classified as a light truck - an unprecendented event. But the entire Outback line is getting lumped into the story in a negative manner. I'd suspect that most typical consumers considered the Outback wagon to be an SUV already.
Do you think that Subaru would have issued a press release touting that the new Outback would be classified as a light truck? I doubt it.
Well written PR, but I personally don't buy the higher ground clearance and depature/approach angles.
I think they could have gotten by with a story more along the lines of: - Current customer demand for higher output engines have forced us to take on a strategy employed by other manufacturers. - However, Subaru continues to keep fuel efficiency a top priority (include examples here).
Well I emailed Subaru about the navigation. This was their response. No confirmation.
Dear S,
Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your interest in Subaru products. At this time, we do not yet have all of the specifications for the 2005 Legacy models. Therefore, I do not know if they will be equipped with a Navigation System or not.
We should have this information later this Spring, as the 2005 Legacy models should be available at dealerships early this Summer. Please visit this microsite and/or contact us again in a few months.
Feedback from Subaru owners is our best source for improvements needed and/or wanted in our vehicles. If you have any future suggestions, please pass them along. They are very helpful to us!!
We appreciate that you took the time to give us your comments. We will forward them to our Product Planning Department for their future consideration. In the past, input from our owners has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and appreciate your recommendations.
"In the name of God could anybody classify a Neon with a new suit a truck IE;Pt Cruiser, come on lets get real here."
I didn't say it was right but Chrysler didn't call the PT the PT Neon did they? Further, the PT as a truck did get plenty of bad press. But it didn't hurt it any.
I have actually talked with several folks who would not consider buying Subarus, despite their superior AWD system, because the approach/departure angles on all the Subaru's were too shallow for any serious offroad adventure: 15" inch wheels, low ride height and front and rear overhangs ...simply no way to get out of the ruts and over the boulders. Vehicle design that creates steep approach/departure angles, e.g, large rims and tires on the corners of the vehicle, longer suspension travel , along with straight rear axle, has sold thousands of Jeep vehicles, esp. Subaru's have been relatively popular in the mountainous areas east of the Mississippi, because they are without peer on snowy roads,as long as the snow was 7 inches or less. Subaru's have been much less popular out West and in the Sunbelt, where offroading is not the same as driving through snow.
This is exactly my point, the PT Cruiser being classed as a truck just shows how ludicrous the rules really are.
This whole issue regarding Subaru has been blown out of all proportion, the outback as it is far exceeds the safety requirements for trucks.
As I have said repeatedly on these forums Subaru is now taking advantage of a loophole that all other car makers have exploited for years what's the big deal here.
the preferred off-road tire size, at least in the offroad crowd I've wheeled with before. They scoff at 16" 17" and 18" rims. If you look most MTs come in 15" with some 16" and even less 17" and 18"
IMHO, it's not a big deal for the wagon. As I said earlier, the typical consumer probably already considers the Outback an SUV and they could give a rat's patoot about the Pacifica and PT Cruiser being labelled as light trucks. Heck, most mini-van owners don't know they are driving a light truck. As for the sedan, that I just don't get.
But I had to respond to juice's big bad media picking on wittle wittle Subawu comment. Trust me, if Chevy tried to relabel the Impala (just pulling out of thin air) as a light truck, it would make headlines as well.
For Subaru the problem is that they have marketed themselves as the anti-suv. I presume they hoped that there would be little fanfare regarding this, but it got out and they will feel some backlash.
Rob: the fundamental flaw in that argument is that you are assuming that CAFE intended to allow passenger trucks to be exempt in the first place. They didn't - the law was meant for commercial fleet vehicles!
So a Durango doensn't meet that intent any more than a PT Cruiser or Outback. It's just a loophole that competitors have been exploiting, and now Subaru hopped on the bandwagon.
And is it fair to be tougher on them because of their past track record? I don't think so.
At one point the Big 3 wanted to force automakers to make a % increase in CAFE scores for each individual automaker. It was the same thing - that would punish those that were doing well because they'd need a bigger improvement.
Up until now, the PT Cruiser was the one getting the negative attention for its CAFE classification, I mean, c'mon, Chrysler is calling that a MINIVAN with a straight face! You seriously think that's not as bad as an Outback?
Again, the intent of the law was to protect commercial fleet vehicles, not personal use light trucks! It wasn't meant to include Durangos and exlude PT Cruisers, it was meant to exclude BOTH.
I agree with Ken that the Press Release could have been better written, heck I could have written it better than that.
juice: I'm not saying that Subaru is wrong for joining the bandwagon. I'm just stating that they have spent many years positioning themselves as an alternative to the SUV. They had to expect some backlash. Did they really expect it to be a secret? I'm not holding them to a different standard. I'm not a fan of any manufacturer taking advantage of this loophole (and many others ie Made in USA includes Samoa).
Yes, the PT is a ridiculous example of a minivan - just as bad as the new Outback. But Chrysler wasn't taking it's #1 seller and remaking it into what they always eschewed.
The issue is with the standards. IMHO, if it has backseats (full, jump, folding, removeable) it should be labelled as a car. Period - no further criteria on my part.
But companies should tout whether or not their trucks meet the stricter automotive safety standards. That's somebody Subaru should be concentrating on.
I'm not saying it's holy of them. I'm saying that if you tout you're different from the crowd, expect some heat when you join the crowd. That can't be denied.
I realize that this forum is full of Subophiles. I expect that my POV may not mesh. The following is not directed at you or anyone in particular: I find it highly hypocritical to criticize the competition for exploiting the loophole but it's OK for the favored brand to do the same.
Their market share is only 1% because they are a niche player. They've limited their potential by offering a narrow range of vehicles. In reality, they've been more successful as a niche player for many years and by maintaining this niche, it shows me they were happy with their results. But the playing field has changed. They must adapt to it by moving in this direction.
My biggest gripe with Subaru is the sunroof in the wagon!! I don't like what I'm seeing. First that funky double glass abonimation and now the giant split panel. I'll reserve final judgement until I see it in person.
Although I can't fault Subaru for making the change, I agree with Robert that switching from a car to a truck classification invites ridicule which is only exacerbated in Subaru's case because of their historically environmental friendly stance.
In the case of the PT Cruiser, Chrysler introduced it as a "truck" (albeit with a wink and a nudge) from the git go and still raised eyebrows. Had they initially called it a car and then tried to get it reclassified they would be suffering much of the same negative repercussions.
I know Rob! Brrrr. We didn't any more than a dusting here, though.
Seems like JB and Rob have been the only truly vocal opponents of the Outback classificition here. A couple of others weren't happy, some where, some didn't care.
I am writing in response to your above-mentioned article. It is interesting to see environmentalists & other press easily pick on subaru & do nothing about GM, Ford & Chrysler (who call themselves as american brands but cars are aseembled in foreign countries) & even toyota for same matter. Why pick only on a company that has 1% market share & leave the rest that have 50% market together ?
What will Subaru do if Outback's competitors such as CRV, RAV4, PT Cruser etc are classified as Light Trucks.....did you pick on them ? Do you see the no. of Suvs Toyota is introducing......v8 option in every SUV ? VW is starting to mass producing W8 & W12 engines, I didn't see any resistance from you on this ? why not ?
Though reclassified to light truck, In my opinion, subaru Outback is still very enironmentally sensitive compared to those ford, gm & toyota SUVs. Note that subaru showed the hybrid system in detroit.
Please be fair & don't just pick on a weakling. Go after the Big 3s & Toyotas.
Natural Resources Defense Council – “Sets Poor Precedent for Auto Industry”
Oh puhlease! The precedence was set long ago.
Sun Journal –“ But the company’s move is a great example of what’s wrong with the country’s current fuel economy regulations. They are too easy to subvert and allow too many vehicles to qualify for lenient mileage standards.
While the number of “light trucks,” which include SUVs and minivans, has increased — they make up about half of the vehicles sold today — the average fuel economy of all the vehicles on the road has steadily declined.”
So they decide to chastise Subaru instead of addressing the real root cause of the problem: “the country’s current fuel economy regulations.” What a cop out!
Comments
Don't know why they cut this feature out of US models. How much does it really save?
And the primary competitor has it...
-juice
Put it back, Subaru. ;-)
-juice
That seat release was very cool. I tried it out several times. Wish I had that in my Forester right now -- it's a pain to have to go through the rear doors to release the seats..
Ken
http://www.drive.subaru.com/
Bob
SUBARU RELEASES STATEMENT REGARDING 2005 MY OUTBACK CLASSIFICATION
CHERRY HILL, N.J., Jan. 13, 2004 – Subaru of America, Inc. today released the following statement in response to various media reports regarding the vehicle classification of its new Outback Wagon and Sedan:
The primary reason the 2005 model year Outback will be classified according to NHTSA as a light duty truck is because it was completely redesigned to meet customer demand for more SUV-type features.
Subaru pioneered the crossover vehicle category back in 1995 with the Legacy Outback - the World's First Sport Utility Wagon. Today, the crossover category is the fastest growing segment in the auto industry. Through our market research, we know that customers don't want to sacrifice fuel economy, comfort, ease of entry, or ride quality; but desire SUV-like features such as dark-tinted side rear windows, higher ground clearance, and approach and departure angles suitable for off-road driving. Customers frequently choose Subaru Outback over conventional truck-based SUVs because of its outstanding fuel economy, performance, handling, and safety. The new Outback will continue to deliver the best of both worlds to the popular cross-over segment and remain a strong alternative to SUVs.
The new Outback, to debut at the Chicago Auto Show in early February, was designed to be a light duty truck. In fact, both the Outback Wagon and Sedan will exceed the NHTSA light duty truck standards on 4 of 5 requirements including break over angle, departure angle, running clearance, and axle clearance.
Subaru has always made fuel economy a top priority in its product development process. Subaru has a track record of producing superior crossover vehicles that meet stringent federal safety and emissions standards. The new Outback is no exception. The base model Outback is expected to have improved gas mileage for model year 2005, while we will also offer a model with enhanced performance characteristics for those customers that have expressed that desire. The new Outback Wagon and Sedan will meet federal emissions standards for light duty truck – which is as stringent as emission standards for light duty vehicles as defined by the EPA and ARB. However, final testing by the EPA for emissions compliance and fuel economy label calculations for model year 2005 Outback has not yet been completed and therefore is not available.
Subaru is committed to developing advanced technologies that improve fuel economy and emissions as evidenced by the new Sequential Series Hybrid Electric (SSHEV) propulsion system in the B9SC and the urban commuter electric vehicle R1e concept cars featured at this year’s Detroit Auto Show. In addition, the new Outback released later this year will feature advanced engine technologies such as Active Valve Control System (AVCS) that improves overall engine efficiency. Further, the newly designed Outback body structure reduces overall vehicle weight by as much as 180 pounds.
Subaru always has been and will continue to be committed to safeguarding the natural environment that so many of our customers avidly enjoy.
About Subaru of America, Inc.
Subaru of America, Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. of Japan. Headquartered near Philadelphia, the company markets and distributes all-wheel drive Subaru vehicles, parts and accessories through a network of nearly 600 dealers across the United States. Subaru is the only car company that offers symmetrical all-wheel drive as standard equipment on every vehicle in its product line. For additional information please visit www.media.subaru.com.
Hmmm... all true no doubt but how many prospective buyers (Paisan excluded) even know what an approach or departure angle is, much less ask for better ones?
It appears SOA is trying to get away with telling half-truths but ignoring the really pertinent details (i.e. it's the fuel economy, stupid).
I know I'd have more respect for SOA if they just admitted that they were sick of being the only manufacturer who tried to comply with the spirit of the law and now they were going to act like all the rest and comply strictly with the letter of the law. But then again, I guess honesty doesn't get you very far in this world :-(
-Frank P.
"everyone else is doing it so why can't we?"
seems honest enough to me.
~c
1. AVCS
2. loss of 180 lbs
3. showed hybrid engines. (wonder if this will make it to 7-seater one day ).
But, we will have to offer what our customers want.
They could have said, it is unfair that Outback's competitors are classified as light trucks & it is being disadvantaged....they touched upon that point lightly.
cusafr
Craig
The media, cowardly as they are, pick on the small company instead of Chrysler.
-juice
You're looking through Subie colored glasses. The reason the media jumped on this is due to the whole SUV backlash happening now and the fact that Subaru has tried to identify itself as the anti-SUV for years. The PT and Pacifica were designed from the get go to be classified as trucks - not morphing from a car into a truck. Subaru is now having what they have called a CAR classified as a truck in order to meet "consumer demand" for SUV features. The real story here is that the Outback sedan will be classified as a light truck - an unprecendented event. But the entire Outback line is getting lumped into the story in a negative manner. I'd suspect that most typical consumers considered the Outback wagon to be an SUV already.
Do you think that Subaru would have issued a press release touting that the new Outback would be classified as a light truck? I doubt it.
I think they could have gotten by with a story more along the lines of:
- Current customer demand for higher output engines have forced us to take on a strategy employed by other manufacturers.
- However, Subaru continues to keep fuel efficiency a top priority (include examples here).
Ken
If so, i am outta here.
Cheers Pat.
Dear S,
Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your interest in Subaru products. At this time, we do not yet have all of the specifications for the 2005 Legacy models. Therefore, I do not know if they will be equipped with a Navigation System or not.
We should have this information later this Spring, as the 2005 Legacy models should be available at dealerships early this Summer. Please visit this microsite and/or contact us again in a few months.
Feedback from Subaru owners is our best source for improvements needed and/or wanted in our vehicles. If you have any future suggestions,
please pass them along. They are very helpful to us!!
We appreciate that you took the time to give us your comments. We will forward them to our Product Planning Department for their future
consideration. In the past, input from our owners has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and appreciate your recommendations.
Thanks again for your time and comments.
Best wishes,
John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
I didn't say it was right but Chrysler didn't call the PT the PT Neon did they? Further, the PT as a truck did get plenty of bad press. But it didn't hurt it any.
Bob
Subaru's have been relatively popular in the mountainous areas east of the Mississippi, because they are without peer on snowy roads,as long as the snow was 7 inches or less. Subaru's have been much less popular out West and in the Sunbelt, where offroading is not the same as driving through snow.
Mark
This whole issue regarding Subaru has been blown out of all proportion, the outback as it is far exceeds the safety requirements for trucks.
As I have said repeatedly on these forums Subaru is now taking advantage of a loophole that all other car makers have exploited for years what's the big deal here.
Cheers Pat.
-mike
But I had to respond to juice's big bad media picking on wittle wittle Subawu comment. Trust me, if Chevy tried to relabel the Impala (just pulling out of thin air) as a light truck, it would make headlines as well.
For Subaru the problem is that they have marketed themselves as the anti-suv. I presume they hoped that there would be little fanfare regarding this, but it got out and they will feel some backlash.
So a Durango doensn't meet that intent any more than a PT Cruiser or Outback. It's just a loophole that competitors have been exploiting, and now Subaru hopped on the bandwagon.
And is it fair to be tougher on them because of their past track record? I don't think so.
At one point the Big 3 wanted to force automakers to make a % increase in CAFE scores for each individual automaker. It was the same thing - that would punish those that were doing well because they'd need a bigger improvement.
Up until now, the PT Cruiser was the one getting the negative attention for its CAFE classification, I mean, c'mon, Chrysler is calling that a MINIVAN with a straight face! You seriously think that's not as bad as an Outback?
Again, the intent of the law was to protect commercial fleet vehicles, not personal use light trucks! It wasn't meant to include Durangos and exlude PT Cruisers, it was meant to exclude BOTH.
I agree with Ken that the Press Release could have been better written, heck I could have written it better than that.
2 letters defend Subaru, 1 attacks it.
-juice
Yes, the PT is a ridiculous example of a minivan - just as bad as the new Outback. But Chrysler wasn't taking it's #1 seller and remaking it into what they always eschewed.
The issue is with the standards. IMHO, if it has backseats (full, jump, folding, removeable) it should be labelled as a car. Period - no further criteria on my part.
Look at the manufacturers that did exploit the loophole - they have had far more sales, market share, and bigger profit margins.
Sadly, the business model has favored those that did "cheat", if you will. It's too bad not enough consumers saw it the way you did.
-juice
May not be right, but it is certainly fair.
-Dave
Greg
-B
I realize that this forum is full of Subophiles. I expect that my POV may not mesh. The following is not directed at you or anyone in particular: I find it highly hypocritical to criticize the competition for exploiting the loophole but it's OK for the favored brand to do the same.
Their market share is only 1% because they are a niche player. They've limited their potential by offering a narrow range of vehicles. In reality, they've been more successful as a niche player for many years and by maintaining this niche, it shows me they were happy with their results. But the playing field has changed. They must adapt to it by moving in this direction.
My biggest gripe with Subaru is the sunroof in the wagon!! I don't like what I'm seeing. First that funky double glass abonimation and now the giant split panel.
If juice only knew my Mom is from Sao Paulo and half my family lives there, everything would be just fine.
Ever read Dilbert? It's the theme of that cartoon.
Let's talk this over a couple of caipirinhas.
-juice
shrug??
In the case of the PT Cruiser, Chrysler introduced it as a "truck" (albeit with a wink and a nudge) from the git go and still raised eyebrows. Had they initially called it a car and then tried to get it reclassified they would be suffering much of the same negative repercussions.
-Frank P.
Oooohhhh - I love those. But I can't - my cachaça is frozen!!
http://www.weather.com/weather/local/02129?lswe=02129&lwsa=We- atherLocalUndeclared
bbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Seems like JB and Rob have been the only truly vocal opponents of the Outback classificition here. A couple of others weren't happy, some where, some didn't care.
-juice
no idea, why i am living in this town......only benefit is i can see the benefits of using Subaru !!!!!!!!!
http://www.sunjournal.com/story.asp?slg=011504editorial2
-Frank P.
I am writing in response to your above-mentioned article. It is interesting to see environmentalists & other press easily pick on subaru & do nothing about GM, Ford & Chrysler (who call themselves as american brands but cars are aseembled in foreign countries) & even toyota for same matter. Why pick only on a company that has 1% market share & leave the rest that have 50% market together ?
What will Subaru do if Outback's competitors such as CRV, RAV4, PT Cruser etc are classified as Light Trucks.....did you pick on them ? Do you see the no. of Suvs Toyota is introducing......v8 option in every SUV ? VW is starting to mass producing W8 & W12 engines, I didn't see any resistance from you on this ? why not ?
Though reclassified to light truck, In my opinion, subaru Outback is still very enironmentally sensitive compared to those ford, gm & toyota SUVs. Note that subaru showed the hybrid system in detroit.
Please be fair & don't just pick on a weakling. Go after the Big 3s & Toyotas.
Krish
Oh puhlease! The precedence was set long ago.
Sun Journal –“ But the company’s move is a great example of what’s wrong with the country’s current fuel economy regulations. They are too easy to subvert and allow too many vehicles to qualify for lenient mileage standards.
While the number of “light trucks,” which include SUVs and minivans, has increased — they make up about half of the vehicles sold today — the average fuel economy of all the vehicles on the road has steadily declined.”
So they decide to chastise Subaru instead of addressing the real root cause of the problem: “the country’s current fuel economy regulations.” What a cop out!
-Frank P.