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Comments
At one point last night there were 6 05MY OBW visible. This morning it looks like a turbo and an H6 are being made ready to be placed on two turn tables. Another 05 and a current ski team model are present on the floor.
Wonder if the webcams will be back next year? Seems to be helping to create some buzz.
Speaking of press conferences, it will be interesting to see how SOA addresses the Outback/truck issue, if at all.
Bob
Ken
Mark
Well, we sure will have lots to see, 3 new Outback/engine combinations at least!
-juice
I will be looking for the cameras and waving. But, it depends if the camera is active and panning at that time, it's not 'live' per-se, more like timed events, maybe every hour.
-Brian
At Detroit the '05 Legacys had a "SUBARU" badge on the left side of the rear deck, unlike those sold in other markets. This Outback on the turntable is like those sold in other markets.
Yet... I also saw (at Chicago) an Outback with tape over the rear badges, and there was a badge on the left of the rear hatch! So what gives?
Bob
LOL
-juice
Feel like a lab rat in an experiment - they're playing w/ us...
Ralph
I'm also hoping they offer it as an option.
Bob
-juice
When is SUB press release 5th or 6th ? Why does need-desire say 6th ?
-Brian
Silver 2005 Outback 2.5 Turbo
http://autologic.blogspot.com
A Silver Outback Turbo was in full webcam view last night and I happen to capture it. The front bumper is like the 05 USDM Legacy, I like the auzzie one better. The pics are the top 3 on my site. Heh, we don't have to wait to see it! Just to buy it.
The Outback was a good car, now its a GREAT car.
I don't any other auto-maker doing this.
I am sure Subaru is not the only brand with a cult following?
Luch
Also, Subaru may have been unaware of the cameras until today.
Why does this have JDM, Aus Bumpers & not the big ugly US bumpers ?
http://content.subaru.com/mailings/02_0421Z/index_21Z.htm
Why does this have JDM, Aus Bumpers & not the big ugly US bumpers ?
http://content.subaru.com/mailings/02_0421Z/index_21Z.htm
why did Impreza sales fall by so much ?
Ken
why did Impreza sales fall by so much ?
sweet_subie-
You are double posting
You are double posting
Happens every time you hit refresh from within a discussion.
Happens every time you hit refresh from within a discussion.
-Frank P.
-Frank P.
OK...but answer my Q about the bumber ?
same story here, plus there are probably a limited number of US-spec bumpers even in existence at this point.
~c
~c
*we're sorry we don't have pics of the north american model just yet but it's very very similar to this... thankyoudrivethrough
VDC - Vehicle Dynamics Control
ESP - Electronic Stability Program
DSC+T - Dynamic Stability Control and Traction
I think this is a great safety feature that every car should have. In fact in Europe almost every manufacturer offers this on even the cheapest base models. Some like VW now have this standard on every car they sell.
The US is lagging in this regard as many manufacturers do not even offer this. However my question is why does Subaru charge such a high premium for this and make a special model for this safety feature? No other manufacturer has special models that just add safety features. It's like having a model called Legacy GT and Legacy GT + Airbags.
Now the cost issue. The premium for this is $2200 (comparing 2004MY OB H6-3.0 Sedan and OB H6-3.0 VDC Sedan). This does includes the McIntosh Stereo so lets value that at $1,000. That is still a $1,200 premium for VDC. Compare this to what other manufacturers are charging:
VW Jetta $280
VW Passat $280
Toyota Camry $650
Lexus ES 300 $650
Lexus IS 300 $350
Volvo S60 $685
I say Subaru please make VDC optional on all Legacies and OBs, not just on the very top model. And please make it affordable.
- Spinaker
You would rather have the less functional systems that those manufacturers offer, for less money, on more Subaru models?
~c
me I drive my own car. I'll take ABS but skip the rest... all of it
I do not know the Toyota systems well but am more familiar with the Mercedes and VW systems (technology from Bosch - inventors of ABS):
The purpose of a stability control system is to help preventing skidding by controlling the yaw of the car. This is done by braking individual wheels and throttle control. See for a technical overview:
http://www.boschusa.com/AutoOrigEquip/Braking/ElectronicStability- /
http://www.kraftfahrzeugtechnik-heute.de:8090/k/jsp/start/esp/index.jsp
The system was first demonstrated in 1991 and won several technology awards.
Now how fundamentally different is Subaru VDC? From their marketing it sounds the same. Compare:
http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/outback/technology/
and
http://www.kraftfahrzeugtechnik-heute.de:8090/k/jsp/start/esp/esp_4.jsp
- Spinaker
I've DRIVEN them. have you? the toyota systems are kludge. sometimes in life you do get what you pay for.
I bet you can find technical articles on what makes VDC tick if you really tried. You may even find articles comparing it to more mundane traction control systems.
~colin
My VW has ESP and having driven it on a icy highway where I had to make a sudden swerve I could feel a twitch in the steering wheel. This was the stability control braking the wheels and correcting the direction.
As for Toyotas you are correct I have not driven them. I also want to make it clear I am not talking about "mundane traction control systems". Traction control systems mainly kick in when you are pulling off and a bad system will too aggresively brake or cut the power to the wheels there fore ruin the driving experience.
Stability control systems effect the direction of the car (yaw). This is the most detail description I could find on VDC:
"All Outback H6-3.0 VDC models come standard with the Subaru Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) system. This system helps the driver maintain directional control under all driving conditions. Using inputs from the steering angle, yaw rate, lateral g-force, and other sensors, the VDC system monitors vehicle stability and continuously compares it to the driver’s intended path. If VDC detects instability, such as oversteer or understeer, it applies light brake pressure to a select wheel(s) to help restore control."
This is exactly how Bosch's ESP works. The $280 option works on my VW, can we get it on more Subarus, it reduces accidents and saves lives. Call it ESP or VDC, its all marketing... ok dont call it Toyota traction control ;-)
- Spinaker
I can't find the detailed article I read, but most stability control systems use just braking to bring a vehicle back into line. VDC has the advantage that it's integrated with the VTD AWD system so the system can not only apply brakes to an individual wheel, it can also vary torque as well.
Ken
"Vehicles Dynamics Control (VDC) works together with VTD All-Wheel Drive and four-wheel electronic traction control to maintain directional stability under all driving conditions. The system monitors vehicle stability by continually measuring inputs such as steering angle, yaw rate, lateral g-force and individual wheel speed.
Using this input data, VDC can tell whether the car is going where the driver is steering. To correct understeer (front-wheel drift), VDC applies split-second brake pressure to the inside rear wheel to pull the car back on the desired course. To correct oversteer (rear-wheel drift), VDC applies split-second brake pressure to the outside front wheel to bring the rear of the vehicle back in line. Under certain oversteer conditions VDC can even direct the All-Wheel Drive system to transfer more power to the front wheels. If the situation requires greater intervention, VDC can also direct the engine control module to turn off one or more fuel injectors and reduce power.
The Outback H6-3.0 VDC system adds another layer of driving control – an all-wheel, all-speed Traction Control System (TCS). Should any wheel spin on a slippery surface, VDC will apply braking force to that wheel to keep wheel spin under control. Depending on the traction situation the VDC system can instruct the engine control module to reduce power by turning off one or more fuel injectors. The Outback H6-3.0 VDC can maintain traction even if three wheels are slipping on ice or snow, without the need for a limited slip differential."
Ken
All this backwards and forwards has really made me think and I think I have learnt quite a bit! Now this is my conclusion:
Stability control systems fundamentally work in the same way on all cars. Braking individual wheels to help the car point in the right direction and if the car is really in bad shape reducing the power through the engine management system. This is the basic functionality of ALL the systems.
Now do all systems feel the same? Not according to this article. In fact the writer does think that Subaru's VDC is the best:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010320.htm
However this did side track my original point that the COST of these systems should not differ too much, and that Subaru should make this available on all their cars and not charge so much. As for having the top model in the range differentiated with a safety feature that should be on all the cars, I don't know....
As I mentioned in Europe stability control is much much more widespread:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/tech/main564126.shtml
In fact in the UK Subaru offers VDC on the 2.5l and 3.0l Legacies as well as on the Outbacks:
http://www.subaru.co.uk/legacy_saloon/legacy_saloon_features_04my- - .htm
Only here it is available on ONLY the very top Outback model.
- Spinaker
-Brian