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Thing is, a turbo engine has other mods that would compensate. Nevertheless, point taken.
Leo: the L's fabric probably is more durable. I have dogs and a kid and it's held up well. I've heard a couple of complaints about the velour on the S+ on the top of the driver's door, which can wear quickly.
You can always use the door handle as an arm rest, if that's the case.
-juice
PS Fitz has a WRX wagon at 22.7k! But the steal is the TS wagon at a lowly $17 grand! That's a bargain!
will follow, once the excitement for the WRX settles down.
Speaking of the RS: It's been de-contented for 2002. The is no sunroof. Fog lamps are now optional (I just saw two at a dealer w/o foglamps). The rear spoiler is now optional.
I love sunroofs, but the seats you use all the time, and the sunroof you don't. They are just plain awesome. I'm sure if the seats are the same that it also gets the side air bags.
Still, it's good you point out what they took out. Put it back, Subaru!
to me, is the real sleeper here. The WRX is getting all the hype, but the RS has the same seats and suspension as the WRX—and the 2.5 engine is no slouch.
WRXs could hard to find, and dealers will be less willing to negotiate price. On the other hand, RSs will be plentiful and dealers will be more likely to cut good deals.
I agree with you, Bob. I like the de-contented RS. I would have bought a de-contented RS, so long as it had 4 wheel disc and ABS. And of course was cheaper because of the lighter content.
it doesn't have the same seats as the WRX. I sat on both at the autoshow. It looks alike. But not it's not the same seats. Unless it's another Canadian Impreza quirks. Nah, I don't like the decontented RS. If i would have to drive that funny design car, I'd get the WRX cus the sheer performance over powers the looks. I'm so shallow. Next I'd say that I prefer Jennifer Lopez's body over Rosie O'Donnell. =(
However I believe that next iterations of the RS will get the similar "goodies" of what the mk I RS got like rear LSD, sunroof, spoiler (don't care about that.) etc...
Ramon - who still thinks the coupe RS wing is hilarious.
yeah they look very much alike. But I think the new RS seats has similar feel to the current RS seats which is not bad. But definitely not as plush as the WRX. Oh so yummy. It is as good as our 330Ci's special ordered cloth seats. The fact that only the WRX gets side inpact airbags while the RS don't should give the clue that the seats are different.
On another note, what's up with this Focus RS? Is this for real?
I wonder what 'minor' changes there will be to the Subaru MY02 line up. By minor, I mean tweaks to the existing models.
I'm going to guess that the VDC wagon gets a few extra goodies thrown in to help ward off criticism about it's price tag. A standard security system? HID lights? An off-switch for VDC? Some extra badging changes to help differentiate it more from the standard OB line up? How about some new rubber?
They'll make the cargo net, cargo cover, rear bumper protector, and the security upgrade all standard, without increasing the price (I've heard freight will go up $30, though).
Funny thing is the tires did well in the C&D comparo, at least in foul weather. I didn't think there were that good. I'd change 'em just to end the bad (even if unfair) publicity.
I didnt get to see an RS yet, but theres no Side Air Bags and the seats have grey instead of blue for the center areas of the cloth...
The TS, I saw two of... A Blue Ridge Pearl and a Green one. I liked it better than I thought I would. The Plastic wheel and shiftnob are funky, but they can be fixed of course. The two-tone interior isnt that nice, but the light gray cloth was better than I expected, and a shade above alot of other sub-$20k cars out there in terms of quality. I dont like the foglight covers either, but the Wagon in any model just looks sweet!
I would get one if I didnt want the RS/WRX suspension so much... No to mention the bigger brakes and Rear ABS, same rims as the WRX, the single tone interior and the leather shift nob/wheel... :P
Also seen in the Forester brochure from Subaru a preformance gauge package with three gauges to measure vacuum pressue on manifold, voltage, and oil temp. None of my cars ever had these gauges. I don't even know what's the importance of these guages or what I'd be reading to understand if there's a problem. What problems would these gauge help?
Another question regarding for you mom and dads out there: how do baby/child safety seat fit in the back seat of the Forester? Since we want to start a family this a real concern. Any problems with any child seats?
Mike wins. If you're ever in town, I'll buy the first round. Cheers.
TS is BRP? Wow, thought they'd save that color for the top models. It does have ABS, I think you meant rear disc brakes (it has drums instead).
Leo: Forester will get a power boost, but we don't know which. H6? Turbo 2.0l? Turbo 2.5l? Take a guess.
An oil pressure gauge is valuable because say the valve in your oil filter fails and gets clogged, then pressure will exist but flow will not. An idiot light would not light up - but an oil pressure gauge would show you the high reading and you'd know to stop before you blew your engine.
I guess voltage could show a problem with the alternator. Not sure about the others.
We've had an EvenFlo "On My Way" infant carrier and two EvenFlo child seats. All fit well, just use the tether anchor for the big kid seats. The only catch is some times big kids can kick the back of your seat.
I've had oil pressure gauges tell me when I was a quart low on oil ('73 MGB, direct oil pressure gauge--actually had an oil line connected to the back of it). I've had oil pressure gauges tell me when it was time to replace the rod bearings in a Ford 351 Windsor motor. Oil forcing its way through the bearing channels is one thing that creates oil pressure, and when the bearings wear, pressure drops - especially at idle. A light, low knock at idle, coupled with low oil pressure, is a sign of worn rod bearings :-)
I've had voltmeters alert me to problems in electrical subsystems. Example: turn on the wipers and the voltmeter drops like a stone; the wiper motor or the mechanism may be binding and drawing more than normal current. This makes the alternator work harder, which increases engine load, etcetera. A cascading set of problems that can be avoided by fixing what's wrong with the wipers.
I've had a turbo boost gauge tell me that my pop-off valve was not popping off. Actually I didn't need the gauge for that. The car became VERY powerful all of a sudden, and I was lucky enough to realize that that was NOT a good thing ;-) Still it broke my heart not to be able to leave it that way! And the gauge did verify my suspicion by pegging itself over in the red zone when I was feeling that extra power.
Anyway, the point is that gauges, properly used, can tell a driver a great deal more about the car than a "check engine" light can. But most folks aren't going to watch the gauges often enough, or know how to interpret them, for the gauges to be of much help to them. They're fun to look at though :-)
I wouldn't be surprised if all Imprezas share the same suspension sans the taller spring for the OBS. It was the case for the GC8 Imprezas. Sports tuned shmorts tuned. Ppl are going to rip them out anyways. My question is, why cant they have all the special options for the TS cus I'm sure there are alot of ppl who wants a sporty wagon too.
According to this link, Subaru, along with GM's help, will bring to market a new small range of cars to slot in between the Impreza and the micro cars sold in Japan.
No, the TS suspension is not "sport tuned" like the RS and WRX, its softer... Like the difference between the Legacy L and Legacy GT. And yes, I meant that the TS has rear drums... Sorry
I got to see all of the model line today, the OBS, RS, TS and WRX wagon/Sedan and take a test ride in a WRX wagon with a pro-rally driver . Anyway, ill do this one at a time:
TS Wagon: The interior is two toned and the cloth material is surprizingly good for a base model car. The seats arent as supportive as the RS/WRX, but they are still VERY supportive compaired to alot of other cars on the market. The wheels are nice and big despite the fact they are not alloy. The price is great! But, cause of the suspension, I would rather get a...
RS Sedan: Same suspenion as the WRX, and whats even more interesting, is the interior is almost Identicle to the WRX! Exept, the blue cloth is black/gray in the RS (looks better IMO) and the wheel isnt a momo wheel. This is a REAL sleeper guys! I actually liked the foglight covers on the Blue Ridge Pearl and the Midnight Black colors... and the lack of a hood-scoop wasnt a problem.
Outback Sport: Same interior as the TS, but the cloth is this funky looking shaggadelic Couch cloth stuff... REALLY wierd! The inch in height is noticable when you get in too. I dont care for the two tone paint much, but its not as bad as the Legacy Outback. I really like the rims on this car too.
WRX Sedan/Wagon: I took an actual test drive today, and WOW! If anyone hasnt yet, go drive one TOMMOROW! Boy is this car smooth and composed... Until you gun it The handling is sooo good, but the stock RE92 tires stink! Found that out when the guy driving did a nice drift arounda 15mph curve :P The Wagons tail happy too, is that so in the Sedan as well? In any case, I WANT ONE NOW But the RS is more realistic for me
canadian pricing for impreza 2002: (add $1000 for automatic trans)
TS wagon: $21,995 RS sedan: $26,995 OBS: $26,395
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the TS wagon is a lot cheaper in Canada than it is in the States... Much closer to the "older" impreza pricing. The TS is actually quite a steal at that price with the 2.5L. Makes me happy
converted to US dollars the figures become: TS Wagon $14,300 RS Sedan $17,550 OBS $17,160 or there about. Even adding 7% GST and the prices are low. When I was buying my Forester I compared comparably equipped (Can gets more standard) cars the the price difference was substantial in Canada's favor.
yeah i notice Canadian car pricing is cheaper if you convert it to US dollars. I mean a Prelude sells for 23k US which equals to 36k CDN. But it actually seels for 28k CDN. The RS sells for 20k US = 31K CDN but it is only 27k CDN. So we rock. I AM CANADIAN!!!!
The TS is a great platform for modding. I've driven the mk I TS and compared it to the RS back in 99 and they drove the same. sans the extra 20hp. having said that, what kosta prolly experience was not the shocks and springs which are different but the combination of the fact that the TS has a narrower track compared to the sedan flared stance and the smaller higher sidewalled wheels. SOA is playing with your minds. Notice there's no TS sedans to compare? ;-) It's all good. For the mod freak, a base model would be best. But for ppl who don't feel like modding, I think the RS like the GT which comes with the extras would be fine.
Hey, I saw an RS yesterday. It was adriven by a chick. She was too busy playing with her hair to notice me. But i didn't honk nor flash my lights. Didn't want to disturb her. She was so intent on curling up her hair....
No, there is a different suspension set up, probably springs and shocks in the TS. The RS has the same "performance" set up as the WRX sedan AND wagon (They have the same suspension pretty much, the WRX models, just different width) It IS a downgraded suspension... but its not THAT bad (I mean, the L still handles great doesnt it?)
Comments
Leo: the L's fabric probably is more durable. I have dogs and a kid and it's held up well. I've heard a couple of complaints about the velour on the S+ on the top of the driver's door, which can wear quickly.
You can always use the door handle as an arm rest, if that's the case.
-juice
PS Fitz has a WRX wagon at 22.7k! But the steal is the TS wagon at a lowly $17 grand! That's a bargain!
Speaking of the RS: It's been de-contented for 2002. The is no sunroof. Fog lamps are now optional (I just saw two at a dealer w/o foglamps). The rear spoiler is now optional.
Bob
Edmunds lists seatbelt pre-tensioners and a CD player, but they could be inaccurate.
-juice
Bob
Still, it's good you point out what they took out. Put it back, Subaru!
-juice
WRXs could hard to find, and dealers will be less willing to negotiate price. On the other hand, RSs will be plentiful and dealers will be more likely to cut good deals.
Bob
-juice
-Colin
Nah, I don't like the decontented RS. If i would have to drive that funny design car, I'd get the WRX cus the sheer performance over powers the looks. I'm so shallow. Next I'd say that I prefer Jennifer Lopez's body over Rosie O'Donnell. =(
However I believe that next iterations of the RS will get the similar "goodies" of what the mk I RS got like rear LSD, sunroof, spoiler (don't care about that.) etc...
Ramon - who still thinks the coupe RS wing is hilarious.
Bob
"Yeah, but she sure can cook baby!"
Trivia: what song is that from?
-juice
On another note, what's up with this Focus RS? Is this for real?
Remember, the Cougar S was supposed to be here by now, and it just got canned. Don't believe anything until you see it.
-juice
I'm going to guess that the VDC wagon gets a few extra goodies thrown in to help ward off criticism about it's price tag. A standard security system? HID lights? An off-switch for VDC? Some extra badging changes to help differentiate it more from the standard OB line up? How about some new rubber?
Anyone else care to take a stab?
Ken
Funny thing is the tires did well in the C&D comparo, at least in foul weather. I didn't think there were that good. I'd change 'em just to end the bad (even if unfair) publicity.
-juice
The TS, I saw two of... A Blue Ridge Pearl and a Green one. I liked it better than I thought I would. The Plastic wheel and shiftnob are funky, but they can be fixed of course. The two-tone interior isnt that nice, but the light gray cloth was better than I expected, and a shade above alot of other sub-$20k cars out there in terms of quality. I dont like the foglight covers either, but the Wagon in any model just looks sweet!
I would get one if I didnt want the RS/WRX suspension so much... No to mention the bigger brakes and Rear ABS, same rims as the WRX, the single tone interior and the leather shift nob/wheel... :P
"Hey man, I saw your wife the other day and she is ugleeeeeeeeee!"
"Yeah, but she sure can cook!"
-mike
Also seen in the Forester brochure from Subaru a preformance gauge package with three gauges to measure vacuum pressue on manifold, voltage, and oil temp. None of my cars ever had these gauges. I don't even know what's the importance of these guages or what I'd be reading to understand if there's a problem. What problems would these gauge help?
Another question regarding for you mom and dads out there: how do baby/child safety seat fit in the back seat of the Forester? Since we want to start a family this a real concern. Any problems with any child seats?
TS is BRP? Wow, thought they'd save that color for the top models. It does have ABS, I think you meant rear disc brakes (it has drums instead).
Leo: Forester will get a power boost, but we don't know which. H6? Turbo 2.0l? Turbo 2.5l? Take a guess.
An oil pressure gauge is valuable because say the valve in your oil filter fails and gets clogged, then pressure will exist but flow will not. An idiot light would not light up - but an oil pressure gauge would show you the high reading and you'd know to stop before you blew your engine.
I guess voltage could show a problem with the alternator. Not sure about the others.
We've had an EvenFlo "On My Way" infant carrier and two EvenFlo child seats. All fit well, just use the tether anchor for the big kid seats. The only catch is some times big kids can kick the back of your seat.
Guess it's up to you to teach them to behave.
-juice
I've had voltmeters alert me to problems in electrical subsystems. Example: turn on the wipers and the voltmeter drops like a stone; the wiper motor or the mechanism may be binding and drawing more than normal current. This makes the alternator work harder, which increases engine load, etcetera. A cascading set of problems that can be avoided by fixing what's wrong with the wipers.
I've had a turbo boost gauge tell me that my pop-off valve was not popping off. Actually I didn't need the gauge for that. The car became VERY powerful all of a sudden, and I was lucky enough to realize that that was NOT a good thing ;-) Still it broke my heart not to be able to leave it that way! And the gauge did verify my suspicion by pegging itself over in the red zone when I was feeling that extra power.
Anyway, the point is that gauges, properly used, can tell a driver a great deal more about the car than a "check engine" light can. But most folks aren't going to watch the gauges often enough, or know how to interpret them, for the gauges to be of much help to them. They're fun to look at though :-)
Cheers,
-wdb
-juice
My question is, why cant they have all the special options for the TS cus I'm sure there are alot of ppl who wants a sporty wagon too.
bit
Bob
http://www.veh-tech.net/
Bob
-Colin
Flags identify where you live. it's a new feature.
-juice
Bob
And yes, I meant that the TS has rear drums... Sorry
I got to see all of the model line today, the OBS, RS, TS and WRX wagon/Sedan and take a test ride in a WRX wagon with a pro-rally driver
TS Wagon: The interior is two toned and the cloth material is surprizingly good for a base model car. The seats arent as supportive as the RS/WRX, but they are still VERY supportive compaired to alot of other cars on the market. The wheels are nice and big despite the fact they are not alloy. The price is great! But, cause of the suspension, I would rather get a...
RS Sedan: Same suspenion as the WRX, and whats even more interesting, is the interior is almost Identicle to the WRX! Exept, the blue cloth is black/gray in the RS (looks better IMO) and the wheel isnt a momo wheel. This is a REAL sleeper guys! I actually liked the foglight covers on the Blue Ridge Pearl and the Midnight Black colors... and the lack of a hood-scoop wasnt a problem.
Outback Sport: Same interior as the TS, but the cloth is this funky looking shaggadelic Couch cloth stuff... REALLY wierd! The inch in height is noticable when you get in too. I dont care for the two tone paint much, but its not as bad as the Legacy Outback. I really like the rims on this car too.
WRX Sedan/Wagon: I took an actual test drive today, and WOW! If anyone hasnt yet, go drive one TOMMOROW!
Boy is this car smooth and composed... Until you gun it
In any case, I WANT ONE NOW
-juice
TS wagon: $21,995
RS sedan: $26,995
OBS: $26,395
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the TS wagon is a lot cheaper in Canada than it is in the States... Much closer to the "older" impreza pricing. The TS is actually quite a steal at that price with the 2.5L. Makes me happy
-juice
MSRP for the TS wagon in the US is $17,495 USD.
MSRP for the TS wagon in Canada is $14,600 USD.
Thank you Subaru!!
It's the other way around with the VDC, isn't it?
-juice
TS Wagon $14,300
RS Sedan $17,550
OBS $17,160
or there about. Even adding 7% GST and the prices are low. When I was buying my Forester I compared comparably equipped (Can gets more standard) cars the the price difference was substantial in Canada's favor.
Ross
Ross
-juice
Ross
Actually, they are pretty close...
-juice
Ross
The RS sells for 20k US = 31K CDN but it is only 27k CDN. So we rock. I AM CANADIAN!!!!
The TS is a great platform for modding. I've driven the mk I TS and compared it to the RS back in 99 and they drove the same. sans the extra 20hp.
having said that, what kosta prolly experience was not the shocks and springs which are different but the combination of the fact that the TS has a narrower track compared to the sedan flared stance and the smaller higher sidewalled wheels. SOA is playing with your minds. Notice there's no TS sedans to compare? ;-)
It's all good. For the mod freak, a base model would be best. But for ppl who don't feel like modding, I think the RS like the GT which comes with the extras would be fine.
Hey, I saw an RS yesterday. It was adriven by a chick. She was too busy playing with her hair to notice me. But i didn't honk nor flash my lights. Didn't want to disturb her. She was so intent on curling up her hair....
If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle!
-mike
It's only $900 for a Quaife LSD. I'd get front before rear though.
-Colin
Stephen
Hey that's what we can do, you be lower case mike and I'll be upper case Mike.
..Mike
..Mike
It IS a downgraded suspension... but its not THAT bad (I mean, the L still handles great doesnt it?)
I'm beginning to think that the rear LSD of the RS/WRX is not what it's that cracked up to be. It's VC daggamit. I dunno.
OK what kind of differentials does the WRC Impreza uses? All VC?