Subaru Crew - Future Models II

p0926 · February 2004

Hmmm, considerably quieter around here today. Must be because everybody's at the Philly auto show. Lucky dogs! Well hopefully we'll get some more photos and detailed info out of it.

-Frank P.

bat1161 · February 2004

Frank,

It could also be because there is a lot to think over, now that the choices have improved.

Mark

c_hunter · February 2004

I will add the GT in tonight (I have a mother of all spreadsheets on my laptop at home). If someone can find the torque/HP curves (or better yet, the raw data) we can throw that into the mix. Any more information, we'll likely have a numerical simulator that will rival Subaru's own!!

Craig

bat1161 · February 2004

I agree that SOA should be offering a NAV system as an option, but it is not a make or break item. You can always go aftermarket like I just did (Garmin Streetpilot 2610). It's portable, and probably half the price of a built in unit.

Mark

sweet_subie · February 2004

http://www.forbes.com/home/newswire/2004/02/05/rtr1244496.html

Murphy and Adcock said the new Outback will have about a 5 percent improvement in fuel economy over the current model and average about 27.5 mpg, despite an increase in horsepower.

nowakj66 · February 2004

This is such fun - like Christmas considering the new OBs.

But here is a WRX Wagon question for a break.

For '05, anyone think they will add an all weather package to the WRX wagon?

How about putting the 2.5 with variable valve timing a la Forester XT in the base WRX. hp is down enough for STi to still be special.

kens · February 2004

Craig,

Thanks again for the nice plot. I'm afraid I've caused an avalanche of requests by asking for the Legacy GT plot overlay.

If you do find the extra time to address our requests, please don't forget to factor in the tire diameter differences.

OB: 225/55R17
GT: 215/45R17

Ken

merrycynic · February 2004

How about an all weather package STi wagon! If they can keep the price under 35K. I think I might prefer a Legacy STi wagon. I know I want an STi wagon! I just don't know which one. Subaru are you listening?

c_hunter · February 2004

No prob, it's kind of fun. I have an input for wheel and tire size, so it all gets accounted for.

Craig

bluesubie · February 2004

Who knows with Subaru? ;-) It didn't make sense not to include it in the wagon from the start.

I agree that the WRX should get AVCS. I think the 2.0 AVCS JDM version puts out 247-250 h.p. Although more h.p. wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for some of these folks. 227 h.p. is plenty. :-)

Just get the XT. ;-)

-Dennis

sweet_subie · February 2004

does forester XT have AVCS ?

bluesubie · February 2004

nygreg · February 2004

Murphy and Adcock need to know the difference between 4WD and AWD.

Greg

mutsuraboshi · February 2004

I guess not having chrome tips on the OB would increase rear departure angles.

Or, to give the image of an upscale car, BMWs and MBs for the most part(M3 excluded) hide their tail pipes.

Or both.....

Luch

locke2c · February 2004

sho 'nuff

I can see WRX wagon sales really hurting until they get the 2.5L turbo

~c

nowakj66 · February 2004

For fun AWD wagons Subie almost has too many choices! :-) More is better to be sure but what is going to channel people among WRX wagon, Forester XT, Legacy GT, and Outback XT?

Price points? Leather availability? Back seat for children over the age of 10?

merrycynic · February 2004

Performance.

salbaby1972 · February 2004

The OB should get the chrome tailpipes. Our Audi allroad had them and I thought it looked cool. Many people in the US fell in love with the JDM Outback and Legacy.

I know we nit-pick the details, but it is what makes a good car a great car. Right?

bat1161 · February 2004

The details are what sometimes sells a car. I know that whichever model I eventually go for, it will be the upper model GT Limited or OB XT simply because of the extra details. After driving the base OBW for 3 1/2 years, it's time for some luxury such as dual power seats; heated seats & AWP; & dual climate control; as well as some power:-)

Mark

spinaker · February 2004

RE: Your Message

Hello Krish:

As we have not yet received all of the specifications for the 2005 Legacy and Outback models, I cannot advise whether or not they will be offered with a Navigation System. I will, however, forward your comments to our Product Planning Department as a suggestion to do so.

Best wishes,
John J. Mergen
Subaru of America

I don't know why they don't just give a yes or a no (they do by now just don't want to tell you!).

If they haven't planned it so far, there's no way they are going to get NAV by delivery time in May/June. Think about all involved: getting software discs from a third party vendor, manufacturing line setup, marketing materials, dealer training, etc.... Needs to be planned many many months in advance.

- Spinaker

kens · February 2004

While I like the idea of an WRX STi wagon, I don't know how many of these would sell. Look at the WRX STi sedan alone -- how many did Subaru sell since it's introduction? I'm not sure the volumes support yet another model.

Ken

locke2c · February 2004

STis are sitting on lots. They're damned cool, but the Lancer EVO is not helping-- those are sitting on lots too.

It's just a lot of money for that type of car.

~c

spinaker · February 2004

Hey Colin,

I think Toyota heard you...

"To enhance safety and all-weather capability, the Highlander Hybrid will feature a Vehicle Dynamic Management (VDM) system. Monitoring a variety of sensors, the system is capable of anticipating pending vehicle stability problems and then correcting the situation with a combination of braking and throttle control. The new VDM system is less obtrusive than conventional VSC but acts quicker and more effectively."

May be their VSC really didn't work that well after all...

- Spinaker

otis123 · February 2004

When we bought our LLBean 3 years ago we thought it made no sense that memory seats were missing - everything else was there.

It will be beyond not making sense if the 2 H6 models don't have memory seats again.

I got everything else I've been asking for over the last 3 years here and via emails to subaru product planning... monotone paint, front side head bag (like the Forester) and front/rear curtain air bags...

Still hoping those buttons under the mirror adjuster are memory buttons... lol!

:-)

Ralph

kernick · February 2004

Yep, got to agree that a wagon would be much more attractive in the utility sense. It would get rid of that "ticket-me-wing" too.

I had a choice between 2 years ago between buying a Trans Am and a Formula which is toned down. Took the Formula, for an integrated spoiler rather than a wing.

IMO: The best STi would look pretty similar to the innocent looking base Impreza.

c_hunter · February 2004

Guys,

I added the Legacy GT to the gearing plot, and it pretty much falls right on top of the Outback 2.5XT (for both MT and AT). Since it just makes the plot harder to read, I did not update the graphics. So, when looking at the previous plot, just keep in mind that the GT and the 2.5XT would have nearly the same curves (only about 30 RPM difference at 120mph).

Craig

kens · February 2004

Craig,

So, is that taking into account the different wheel diameters and final gear ratio?

I guess that was Subaru's intent -- to keep the effective RPMs the same.

Thanks for doing this!

Ken

merrycynic · February 2004

I wonder if the summer tires only on STi' and EVO' are hurting sales during the winter. I'm sure that the sexier body styles of the Z, G35 and RX8, heck you can add the Integra and maybe even the Celica into the mix, as well as the new awd Golf, are having an effect. More sharks looking for the same bait. Subaru might have to get really competitive if they want their market share back. Gee, what could Subaru do that no else has done yet? Yeah, that's the ticket a practical, no compromise, go everywhere, every time, with everybody and their everythings, awd station wagon that can embarrass the S & M badges for $20K less! Ok, this is the year of the Legacy. Next year I want to see an STi badge on a wagon, I don't care if it's on a Legacy or on the new Impreza. Subaru should seriously consider getting a magazine to do a comparison with BMW M and Audi S class'. Maybe then the STi will get the respect it deserves.

sweet_subie · February 2004

camry longer than highlander ?
Passar wagon shorter than its sedan ?

Length Width
186.2 68.1 legacy
189.2 70.7 camry
185.2 68.7 passat sedan

184.3 68.7 passat wagon
188.7 68.1 legacy Wagon

188.7 69.7 New OB
187.4 68.7 OB
184.6 71.9 Highlander

c_hunter · February 2004

Yep, it's all in there.

FYI, here are the top-gear equations for each.

RPM = ALPHA x MPH

Where ALPHA is given by:

Outback 2.5i MT 45.186
Outback 2.5i AT 38.894
Outback 2.5XT MT 41.184
Outback 2.5XT AT 37.526
Outback 3.0R AT 34.277
Legacy 2.5GT MT 41.415
Legacy 2.5GT MT 37.237
Forester XT MT 42.107
Forester XT AT 39.597

ALPHA takes into account wheel diameter, final drive ratio, and the top gear ratio.

Craig

trueawd · February 2004

I actually am in Chicago now. I got to see them all and I think they look great! They actually added a VDC model on the floor after the press conf for the show. Then there's the 2 you see in all the pix..Monotone XT and green LL Bean. There is also a 5 speed 4 cyl limited in the back of the display. My favorite is the OBXT. It looks really awesome. Also the product speacialists have this little brochure and it's got a picture of a black OBXT...it will be mine one day..it will be mine!!! I'm glad my dealership friend sales manager was right on about everything, so next year I can start asking questions about the 7 passenger?????

Have a nice day!!

sweet_subie · February 2004

what is different in XT that you liked so much ?

nowakj66 · February 2004

trueawd and others in Chicago - any photos from the show floor to share?

sweet_subie · February 2004

my wife won;t let me buy a car without NAV. So, i am waiting for the leg/ob to have NAV

once women get used to NAV, they start to think it is a necessity, i think.

subearu · February 2004

rsholland · February 2004

I just checked that "live" cam again, and I didn't see any '05 Legacys! Maybe there's one hidden behind one of those large partitions? Plenty of '05 Outbacks visible however.

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

http://www.subdriven.com/gallerytk/gallery2.php?mode=album&al- bum=Automobiles/Outback/2005#

rsholland · February 2004

There are a lot of frustrated nabisco folks who are furious over this dumb move. Can't blame them...

Bob

kens · February 2004

Expressed like a true scientist!

Ken

kens · February 2004

While I think Subaru did a good job building up to the launch of both the Legacy and OB, I think they could have done a better job with the public shows.

At both Detroit and Chicago, the public wasn't allowed to sit in the new models. A big letdown for all the fans that went to the shows in response to the buildup.

Ken

njswamplands · February 2004

that is the worse thing possible. to go to an auto show and not experience the interior. also wish there was someway of being driven around the parking lot or something along those lines or have 'rentals' of existing cars available.

trueawd · February 2004

I really like the Hood scoop. I think it gives the car an aggressive look. I like the electroluminecent(sp) dash board (not on 6), I like the 8.7 inch of ground clearance. I think the shifters on the steering wheel are sweet, you do get radio controls on the H6 instead of shifters (one or the other). Although I think the wood trim looks great on the H6s, I personally like the clean look on the XT better. I also really like 250 ft lbs of tourque!!!!

Oh yeah there is no Legacy there 2005 that is...

nowakj66 · February 2004

I know few have been in them, but one nit I have with our 02 Bean is smallish interior. I am 6' 4" and ok in the driver's seat. Front passenger seat suffers from truncated front leg room in current model legacy and OB.

For the few that have tried the interior, is it any bigger in there?

rsholland · February 2004

I can't answer that. While I've been in several new Legacys, I did not sit in an '04 model, back-to-back, for a direct comparison. I'm a bit over 5'9" and the '05 felt roomy to me.

Bob

trueawd · February 2004

I sat in both the 04 and 05 at the Chi Auto Show and there is more room in the 05. Not a ton, but there is more head room for those who are tall.

kens · February 2004

From what I saw, the interior rooms looked about the same. I think the marginal increases on the specifications are not that noticeable.

Unfortunately, the 05 Legacy GT I was able to sit in had the power disconnected so there was no way to adjust the seats.

Ken

sweet_subie · February 2004

only good thing on this site is Pics !!!!

Tell me sth, how come Subdriven always has more pics than SOA themselves ? Strange....

sweet_subie · February 2004

Again, i can;t think of anything other than OB....again not legacy....

OB has a very distinct personality that no other car matches.....now they have engine choices that many can choose from......Subaru is making all the right moves.......

This is my plan:
1. Replace my OBH4 with OBXT later this year
2. Replace my MPV with 7-seater in 2 years

what are your plans ?

sweet_subie · February 2004

http://www.lafayettejc.com/news20040206/200402064local_news107604- 3713.shtml

rsholland · February 2004

As most of you have noticed by now, all 3.0 H-6s, worldwide, now have an "R" attached to the name. First question that comes to mind is why, as it seems unnecessary?

My guess is the Subaru is preparing the public for future additional variations of the H-6 to debut down the road sometime. Perhaps a 3.0 GT? Or a 3.0 S, or STi?

Bob

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