I'll admit it would have been nice on that 7.5 hour drive back from CT. And there were several occasions where we took 2 cars because there were 6 of us.
But...isn't it more cost effective to rent a van for a week, given we do that once a year? That's my current thinking. $300 or so per year, that's less than the interest I'd pay to buy one.
We don't pack heavily to the beach because we own the place - so we can leave our stuff there. Not sure we need that kind of space year round.
Bob will find this funny - all 11 in stock are EXs. Not a single LX. It's the model that doesn't actually exist. I've seen 2 in my lifetime.
Local mega-dealer here in Boston has 100 Pilots in stock 9 of which are LX's. They don't sell - kind of like LX Odysseys and DX Accords. Very few folks want bottom of the line.
But...isn't it more cost effective to rent a van for a week, given we do that once a year? That's my current thinking. $300 or so per year, that's less than the interest I'd pay to buy one.
I guess it depends on your lifestyle. We take the kids to Maine or Cape Cod very often to visit the grandparents - we have to haul everything back and forth. I've been shuttling my kids and 2 neighbor kids to day camp all week - need four places in the back. I rent yard equipment and carry building materials in it often. It gets over 20 on the highway and rides comfortably.
It sounds like you could get away with another wagon - No SUV For You!!
Rob: yeah, one thing is that her Elementary School is about 50 steps away from our house. She'll be walked to school, so no need to car pool any more.
My son will be in Pre-school for 3 years but the wife has ride sharing figured out, and since it's just one kid we have room to give another kid a ride when needed.
We do a LOT of road trips, but most of those are to the beach. I think we've been 6 times this year, back and forth that's 36 hours in the car.
But like I said, now that we own we leave stuff there, I don't even fill up the Forester any more, maybe it would be overkill.
Dunno, our needs keep changing, evolving, so we'll see. That left over F-XT at fitz for $21.2k would be tough to resist.
Bob will find this funny - all 11 in stock are EXs. Not a single LX. It's the model that doesn't actually exist. I've seen 2 in my lifetime.
Doesn't surprise me one bit. I've only seen 2 or 3 myself.
Remember the first-generation Grand Cherokee? They offered a base-level (under the Larado trim) SE model for several years, that came with steel wheels? Ever see one? They're even more rare than Pilot LXs.
Are the best design for their purpose - transporting larger numbers of passengers, especially children. If you only ever haul two kids, you can still indulge in sedans and wagons. We love the space in the Suburban, but the Sienna was much more functional when we had 3 little ones in car seats. Now that they climb in and buckle up themselves, it's no longer an issue, but the centre 'walkway' would still be nice. The Sienna has much better handling, gas mileage and acceleration for driving around town or the highway. It was tight for luggage space though, we used to cram our big Thule box full. Vans are very versatile too. I've even taken out the rear bench and put 3 mountain bikes and riders in the van with no trouble.
I've even taken out the rear bench and put 3 mountain bikes and riders in the van with no trouble.
Good point - I can fold down the 3rd seat in the Ody and fit 2 mountain bikes and a trailer. It's not pretty but it fits.
juice - come fall my son is on the bus as usual to school but I will be transporting my daughter as well as 2 other 4 YO's to pre-school - all in boosters!! My Accord won't be able to handle that if we miss the bus and I'll have to paint the Ody Safety Yellow.
Minivans win the practicality game, and while I joke around a lot I'm not averse to getting one.
Honda doesn't offer AWD and the warranty is very short. Siennas are expensive when you get AWD and a few desirable options.
So basically there are still compromises you have to make, even with vans.
I'm hoping the Tribeca is the Holy Grail, affordable, seating for 7, good cargo space (at least when the 4 of us are in it), AWD, performance, handling, ...
Even with all that plastic all over it the thing looks good. If looks really help in this segment (look how many rx 300's are out there with that non-boxy SUV design) then this thing shold be a hit. Can't wait to see it for real. Now cross your fingers and hope it does not have a dorky name......
There's a guy over at nabisco who has seen the vehicle up close. He knows some higher-ups at SOC (I'm assuming it's SOC, as his profile indicates he's from Canada), and they showed it to him.
He's very impressed with what he's seen, and thinks it will be a big hit—assuming Subaru gets its marketing right (always an iffy issue here).
I had mentioned that I see a lot of R1e styling cues under all the tape and masking, and he agreed with me on that. He said it looks nothing like the early images we have all seen on the Net. He said it was a really good looking vehicle, and very distinctive.
But I think it's silly to think a FWD or RWD minivan / SUV couldn't do the job. I'd buy a Subaru because I like Subarus for a lot of reasons, not because they're the cheapest with good AWD. (example of bad: 1G CR-V's "realtime" junk)
FWD cars with good all-season tires are perfectly fine in any conditions you should reasonably expect to encounter. In really nasty stuff, true snow tires would be a good idea or barring that, chains.
But how often does that happen? I mean, it wasn't so long ago that Mrs. Teixeira was in a 626, and she probably did fine assuming the things in the immediate paragraph were observed.
My non-AWD taurus SLO is just fine for the winter and a non-AWD minivan would be too. We won't burn you at the stake, Juice, if necessity/practicality bears out that your next vehicle isn't a Subaru or even AWD. It's wasted money-- you couldn't take a minivan on the beach or deep woods camping even if it had AWD because there's not enough ground clearance.
juice -- just grab that FXT, enjoy, and get a competitively priced and equiped minivan. No need to try and put all the features you like into a single vehicle. :-)
Colin - good point, but the Sienna was awful in ice, which is what we drive on for 4-5 months. Had to run Studded tires to feel secure. No comparison to the Suburban which is very predictable and stable with regular snows. It had great feel on dry pavement, I suspect it was butt heavy, which balanced its highway feel, but hurt traction in winter.
Juice - yeah, the new Siennas with AWD are some serious sticker shock! A friend looked at one, and it was basically the same price as the Sequoia, and thousands more than the Suburban. Don't expect any deals either, Toyota here uses "access pricing" for dealers througout the province. No haggling, and a 'whopping' $2-$300 off MSRP.
What kind of cargo space is expected in the Tribeca? I only have two kids, but I'm hoping for decent leg roon for those in the second row (my Outback is kind of tight) and better cargo space than I have now. I don't care at all about the third row seating other than it might make for better cargo capacity behind the second row when it's folded flat.
third row seat leg room is the one to watch for. Though my MPV is small, third row leng room will beat any SUV's. Otherwise i am settling for a sienna/oddy.
i love the idea of 2 + 3 + 2 config.......so we can fold third row & still seat 5 people.
Colin: funny thing is when it snowed she'd take the Forester, and I'd be stuck with the 626.
And we do take road trips to CT, where is snows a lot, but we might keep the go-in-summer strategy, for which FWD would be fine.
Sludge never affected the 3.3l engine, only the 3.0l predecessor.
I would probably at least get stability control in a Sienna. And maybe prices will come down when the new Ody finally arrives.
I like the MPV but Odyssey prices have collapsed just now, so the Mazda no longer carries a price advantage plus it's smaller and resale isn't as good. $22k for an Ody LX, $25k with a DVD player, even.
Of course when I'm really ready to buy those deals will be history. My timing is poor, maybe.
For now Sandy is doing the trick, and remember, I paid cash so I have not had a car payment in SIX YEARS (her b-day was yesterday). Repairs have cost me exactly $0.
The 626 started falling apart after 5 years. I've had 6 good years, so I'll never complain about it, scout's honor.
The Miata is 11 years old and had only the clutch slave cylinder issue. I got a new top but that's not really fair, 10 years is the standard life expectancy for a soft top. Now some paint is peeling.
Still, neither has ever left me stranded.
-juice
PS Oh, my miata's CD player is on the fritz, any suggestions for an easy replacement (fits the harness)?
the MPV still has an advantage that the existing Ody doesn't - roll down side windows AND an available Moonroof that is almost as big as the Foresters...
my guess is you have been on the fence for at least 3 of those years. the pain of sitting on a fence must be significant. how many hours have you spent pulling splinters out your butt?
True about the windows. Also the side-by-slide 2nd row is still a useful feature, something Honda is supposed to copy for 2005 by the way. Sienna still doesn't do that (you have to lift the seat to move it).
Swampy: lots of splinters. Less now that Patti has greased the entire fence with gear oil.
I'm not the first-on-the-block kind of guy, so I would never even consider paying full MSRP for the hottest new product no matter who it came from.
The Ody re-appeared on the radar because prices have plunged, and an EX with a DVD player for $25k is a bargain no matter how to slice it. Two year old used ones command $22k nowadays.
Sienna is still half way between invoice and MSRP but when the new Ody comes out I think prices will drop.
I'm very, very patient, and would wait for that bargain to show up. True for the Tribeca as well. So I'd probably be forced to wait almost a full year for the 2nd model year models (2007?) to come out, and try to snap up a left over 2006.
aren't they going through some major pains keeping that 5sp AT alive in the current version (same as the old TL/CL)? the new ody is supposed to get a brand new tranny design.
The 2004 Subaru Outback wagon was the worst performer among passenger cars, a category that includes sedans and station wagons, with a 15.5% rollover risk.
"Other vehicles that combine aspects of wagons and SUVs, such as the Nissan Murano, performed similarly, though some were counted as light-duty trucks. One, the Chrysler Pacifica, was ranked as the best performer in the SUV group with a 13% to 14% risk."
Juice, this is a little off topic but the Sienna XLE AWD with leather and all the safety stuff (TC/VSC/TC/all the airbags) is well under $33k OTD. I paid $32k and change for mine. At the time it was about $2000 more than the out-the-door prices I was getting for the VDC.
MSRP for XLE package#17+floor mats (or GK+CF) is $35k. But with a little work I was able to get $2300 off in late DEC early JAN. I bet I could get even more off now.
Relative to other offering the Sienna XLE AWD was cheap for the size and content. Its why I selected it over the VDC, MDX, Pacifica, and others.
I really like minivans. I prefer them over sedans and to some extent wagons. That only goes as far as A to B vehicles are concerned.
Juice, far a better deal is the EX-L (base) without the DVD. You can then drive it over to Wal Mart and buy their DUAL screen (6.2") system with mounts for your van for under $300. I think it was $280 bucks. If you want to do a stealth inslallation it will cost a little more for the brackes that hold the DVD player under the seat. If you dont care about the dual screens you can get the single screen (7") version for about $200 bucks. I'm pretty sure that Honda charges about $1400-1500 for their DVD system so you can save at least a grand by going aftermarket. Thats enough to get a Garmin NAV.
Comments
But...isn't it more cost effective to rent a van for a week, given we do that once a year? That's my current thinking. $300 or so per year, that's less than the interest I'd pay to buy one.
We don't pack heavily to the beach because we own the place - so we can leave our stuff there. Not sure we need that kind of space year round.
-juice
Local mega-dealer here in Boston has 100 Pilots in stock 9 of which are LX's. They don't sell - kind of like LX Odysseys and DX Accords. Very few folks want bottom of the line.
I guess it depends on your lifestyle. We take the kids to Maine or Cape Cod very often to visit the grandparents - we have to haul everything back and forth. I've been shuttling my kids and 2 neighbor kids to day camp all week - need four places in the back. I rent yard equipment and carry building materials in it often. It gets over 20 on the highway and rides comfortably.
It sounds like you could get away with another wagon - No SUV For You!!
I do see more LX vans, FWIW.
-juice
My son will be in Pre-school for 3 years but the wife has ride sharing figured out, and since it's just one kid we have room to give another kid a ride when needed.
We do a LOT of road trips, but most of those are to the beach. I think we've been 6 times this year, back and forth that's 36 hours in the car.
But like I said, now that we own we leave stuff there, I don't even fill up the Forester any more, maybe it would be overkill.
Dunno, our needs keep changing, evolving, so we'll see. That left over F-XT at fitz for $21.2k would be tough to resist.
-juice
Doesn't surprise me one bit. I've only seen 2 or 3 myself.
Remember the first-generation Grand Cherokee? They offered a base-level (under the Larado trim) SE model for several years, that came with steel wheels? Ever see one? They're even more rare than Pilot LXs.
Bob
We love the space in the Suburban, but the Sienna was much more functional when we had 3 little ones in car seats. Now that they climb in and buckle up themselves, it's no longer an issue, but the centre 'walkway' would still be nice. The Sienna has much better handling, gas mileage and acceleration for driving around town or the highway. It was tight for luggage space though, we used to cram our big Thule box full. Vans are very versatile too. I've even taken out the rear bench and put 3 mountain bikes and riders in the van with no trouble.
Good point - I can fold down the 3rd seat in the Ody and fit 2 mountain bikes and a trailer. It's not pretty but it fits.
juice - come fall my son is on the bus as usual to school but I will be transporting my daughter as well as 2 other 4 YO's to pre-school - all in boosters!! My Accord won't be able to handle that if we miss the bus and I'll have to paint the Ody Safety Yellow.
Honda doesn't offer AWD and the warranty is very short. Siennas are expensive when you get AWD and a few desirable options.
So basically there are still compromises you have to make, even with vans.
I'm hoping the Tribeca is the Holy Grail, affordable, seating for 7, good cargo space (at least when the 4 of us are in it), AWD, performance, handling, ...
Stop dreaming, I know.
-juice
He's very impressed with what he's seen, and thinks it will be a big hit—assuming Subaru gets its marketing right (always an iffy issue here).
I had mentioned that I see a lot of R1e styling cues under all the tape and masking, and he agreed with me on that. He said it looks nothing like the early images we have all seen on the Net. He said it was a really good looking vehicle, and very distinctive.
Bob
But I think it's silly to think a FWD or RWD minivan / SUV couldn't do the job. I'd buy a Subaru because I like Subarus for a lot of reasons, not because they're the cheapest with good AWD. (example of bad: 1G CR-V's "realtime" junk)
FWD cars with good all-season tires are perfectly fine in any conditions you should reasonably expect to encounter. In really nasty stuff, true snow tires would be a good idea or barring that, chains.
But how often does that happen? I mean, it wasn't so long ago that Mrs. Teixeira was in a 626, and she probably did fine assuming the things in the immediate paragraph were observed.
My non-AWD taurus SLO is just fine for the winter and a non-AWD minivan would be too. We won't burn you at the stake, Juice, if necessity/practicality bears out that your next vehicle isn't a Subaru or even AWD. It's wasted money-- you couldn't take a minivan on the beach or deep woods camping even if it had AWD because there's not enough ground clearance.
~Colin
juice -- just grab that FXT, enjoy, and get a competitively priced and equiped minivan. No need to try and put all the features you like into a single vehicle. :-)
Ken
Juice - yeah, the new Siennas with AWD are some serious sticker shock! A friend looked at one, and it was basically the same price as the Sequoia, and thousands more than the Suburban. Don't expect any deals either, Toyota here uses "access pricing" for dealers througout the province. No haggling, and a 'whopping' $2-$300 off MSRP.
Eric
Bob
i love the idea of 2 + 3 + 2 config.......so we can fold third row & still seat 5 people.
http://www.subaru.com.au/
Both the Legacy 3.0R and the 3.0R-B 6-speed are new to the Australian market. They had the Outback 3.0R, but not the Legacy 3.0 models until now.
Bob
And we do take road trips to CT, where is snows a lot, but we might keep the go-in-summer strategy, for which FWD would be fine.
Sludge never affected the 3.3l engine, only the 3.0l predecessor.
I would probably at least get stability control in a Sienna. And maybe prices will come down when the new Ody finally arrives.
I like the MPV but Odyssey prices have collapsed just now, so the Mazda no longer carries a price advantage plus it's smaller and resale isn't as good. $22k for an Ody LX, $25k with a DVD player, even.
Of course when I'm really ready to buy those deals will be history. My timing is poor, maybe.
For now Sandy is doing the trick, and remember, I paid cash so I have not had a car payment in SIX YEARS (her b-day was yesterday). Repairs have cost me exactly $0.
-juice
~c
The Miata is 11 years old and had only the clutch slave cylinder issue. I got a new top but that's not really fair, 10 years is the standard life expectancy for a soft top. Now some paint is peeling.
Still, neither has ever left me stranded.
-juice
PS Oh, my miata's CD player is on the fritz, any suggestions for an easy replacement (fits the harness)?
MPV is not as bulky to drive either...
(ducks for cover and runs....) ;-)
-Brian
Bob
Swampy: lots of splinters. Less now that Patti has greased the entire fence with gear oil.
-juice
-Brian
The Ody re-appeared on the radar because prices have plunged, and an EX with a DVD player for $25k is a bargain no matter how to slice it. Two year old used ones command $22k nowadays.
Sienna is still half way between invoice and MSRP but when the new Ody comes out I think prices will drop.
I'm very, very patient, and would wait for that bargain to show up. True for the Tribeca as well. So I'd probably be forced to wait almost a full year for the 2nd model year models (2007?) to come out, and try to snap up a left over 2006.
-juice
Maybe if we had skipped out on the beach condo we'd get both! LOL
-juice
juice, just get the F-XT and a trailer
-Brian
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/aug04/249965.asp
"Other vehicles that combine aspects of wagons and SUVs, such as the Nissan Murano, performed similarly, though some were counted as light-duty trucks. One, the Chrysler Pacifica, was ranked as the best performer in the SUV group with a 13% to 14% risk."
~c
Whatever space she's offered, she'll fill up. Funny how that happens.
I don't get it, the Outback is supposed to be classified as a truck now, why group it with cars?
And the Pacifica is a truck? FWD, no ground clearance? Outback is far more capable then any Pacifica is.
-juice
Bob
Watch, next year the same report will pick the Outback as best in class.
-juice
Ken
-juice
MSRP for XLE package#17+floor mats (or GK+CF) is $35k. But with a little work I was able to get $2300 off in late DEC early JAN. I bet I could get even more off now.
Relative to other offering the Sienna XLE AWD was cheap for the size and content. Its why I selected it over the VDC, MDX, Pacifica, and others.
I'm hoping prices will decline when the new Odyssey arrives and other competitors continue to improve.
That's still a lot of money for me, because a minivan is the type of vehicle you need to own, not the type that you want to own.
I'd sacrifice a few features, at least. That Ody EX-L with DVD for $25 grand is more up my alley for now.
-juice
Juice, far a better deal is the EX-L (base) without the DVD. You can then drive it over to Wal Mart and buy their DUAL screen (6.2") system with mounts for your van for under $300. I think it was $280 bucks. If you want to do a stealth inslallation it will cost a little more for the brackes that hold the DVD player under the seat. If you dont care about the dual screens you can get the single screen (7") version for about $200 bucks. I'm pretty sure that Honda charges about $1400-1500 for their DVD system so you can save at least a grand by going aftermarket. Thats enough to get a Garmin NAV.
-juice
-juice
13" between seats above armrests.
Bigger notebooks would use that full 13" I think.
But I think the view would be obstructed partially from the viewing angle of the kids.
I could try them in my cousin's van, of course.
-juice
ms likes to keep her seat further forward and angled back more than mine thus creating a funky offset of seats.
dvd on my notebook is on left rear so changing dvds, as they always battle what to watch, is a concern.
also was trying to move it somewhat forward for nav purposes but that created back seat viewing issues.
so kept the no video/games in cars rule in effect. only books on cd and music.
Last time I put a squarish suitcase between the kids and the notebook on top of that, secured with a bungee cord.
I put our stereo on the front speakers only, so we don't have to listen to Elmo yet again. Actually, they've been watching Disney flicks lately.
Changing the DVD is a problem, you really have to stop, but we need gas and meals anyway, and it does give you about 90-100 minutes of pure quiet.
-juice