We use my laptop with the 15" screen. Open it up flat and it sits on the cup-holder behind the front console. With the unoccupied middle row seat folded flat, it sits neatly, and a strap from seat to seat over the hinge holds it securely. Sandra easily reaches behind from the passenger seat to change or organze the DVD. Never had any complaints from the audience, and it certainly buys us quiet. We use little battery operated speakers that we put in the back row. Lets me listen to my opera up front - as long as it's not too loud, then there are complaints. Remote headphones will be the next big purchase to fix that.
1. Vitually no turbo lag. 2. Most curious question i have is, the article says this model gained 500lbs, what in the world did they do ? and it still reaches 0-60 in 6.9 sec
cost around 32-35k. good looks.....will compete well with legacy...though a bit smaller.
Wasn't it Jon in CT? But I gotta chuckle out of that one...
Even though we seem to be off-topic, all of this is relevant to the family-oriented Tribeca.
Having a DVD option would be wise, having room for a notebook computer between the front seats would be a big selling point to me. I'd also like 110 volt power.
While I'm at it, give me plenty of cup holders, juice box holders, even a baby bottle holder (taller) and a water bottle holder in the door. These things cost about 20 cents each, just design them in.
I also want LOTS of storage. The Forester is good in that regard, so just scale that up, more is better.
S40 T5 was decent, not great. The Legacy is much nicer inside, you'd think the badges were swapped if you compared them. The engine is nice, but the base suspension is a little soft, and the sport suspension is rock hard. They need an intermediate setting.
The Legacy rides a lot better, and handles just as well as the sport package. Better, actually, because there is no torque steer.
To be honest I cannot think of a single thing the T5 does better than a Leg GT.
In terms of size, an S40 is much smaller, closer to a WRX. The V50 is a lot roomier, though, and beats the WRX wagon for practicality, but then again the Forester beats the V50 easily.
that thing is stupid. R32s aren't exactly flying out of dealerships and have nearly the same engine and close to the same sticker price. although Audi's twin-clutch sequential is badass, I'll readily admit.
~c PS I've been silent lately but this goes too far! that's a Cafe topic, not even remotely close to a Subaru Future Model.
My wife has been pushing me to consider the Acura TL. She thinks even the top of the line OBs still fall short of luxury.
Acura TL MSRP is 35k vs OB XT LTD 33k.
This is what Acura offers that OB XT LTD doesn;t: 1. Nav ( voice recog) 2. XM 3. Handsfree link 4. Memory seats 5. 270 HP 6. Auto 6-spead 7. Xenon lights 8. 4-year/50k warranty 9. 270 hp naturally aspirated engine 10. Premium surround sound 11. Telescoping steer wheel 12. Xenon lights 13. Vehicle stable assist.
Doesn't the list above justify 2-3k difference. Above all, Acura is more likely to retain sales value compared to a 33k XT LTd
I understand TL, i will be paying close to 34k but XT i can get for 31k, still 3k difference for all the above features, I am spell bound ! help me out here, guys.
There's a thread on Legacy vs. TSX vs. TL, definitely check that out.
The main downside to the TL in my opinion is the FWD, and it should be apparent to anyone doing a serious test drive. That is way too much HP for a FWD vehicle, and the car mags gripe about it too. Otherwise, the TL is a sweet car.
By the way, the TL auto is 5-spd, only the manual is a 6-spd. Don't assume that a 6-speed MT is better than a 5-spd MT, it just depends on the engine and other driving characteristics.
Of course, the main difference between the OB XT and the TL is that one is a sport-utility wagon and one is a sport-sedan. You'd have a fairer comparison with a Legacy GT sedan, not an Outback wagon.
Of course, the main difference between the OB XT and the TL is that one is a sport-utility wagon and one is a sport-sedan. You'd have a fairer comparison with a Legacy GT sedan, not an Outback wagon.
Yep, and then the price difference is even greater between the GT Limited sedan and TL.
I agree with Craig. 270 hp is a lot for a FWD car. Now if the TL had the SH-AWD found in the new '05 RL, then it's a different story... But it doesn't, at least not yet.
This part of Sweet subie's link caught my eye. 'Subaru ....wants each to come up with a launch plan for next year's launch of its 2006 SUV, as yet unnamed, sources said. The goal is to position the vehicle as a premium brand while retaining the "anti-status" core values of Subaru' Hmmm.. the 'anti-status' status vehicle? Hopefully that leaves room for an econmical version. Owen
Don't forget that companies like Audi and Volvo, where AWD is an option, charge about $2,000 for it. So... apples to apples, consider that a (hypothetically) comparable TL is really $5k more than the XT.
Nevertheless, it depends what's important to you. Nav, memory seats, and handsfree are nice, but I'd still trade it for the security of AWD. Now, if Acura comes out with an AWD TL, I'd have to seriously think about it, because the TL is one gorgeous car! Good luck,
Mid-year Nav, eh? That'll appease a few complainers.
OB is a wagon, that costs $1000 more than sedans, add another $2000 for AWD. That's a $3000 value.
The OB will be more versatile, go anywhere, clear snow, carry 4 times the cargo, even more on the roof rack, and tow better to boot.
Nav is coming. HIDs get stolen easily, and the projectors are great already. XM costs very little. I think Paul was offering a free service coupon in one thread, plus Subaru's powertrain warranty is longer. I'd choose AWD over VSA by a wide margin.
Instead of an OB XT Ltd, compare a Legacy GT limited sedan, and the price difference is kinda huge, and you still get AWD.
Does the TL have wiper de-icers and heated mirrors? Also, no roof rack, no cross bars, what about fog lights? Wagon body. AWD.
You should make a list of things the Subaru has that the Acura does not have, I bet it's just as long.
I see this as a transitional model. By that I mean SOA is setting the stage in terms of content and marketing position for future OBSs and Imprezas, as the product moves upmarket.
at the history of how Subaru models have evolved over the years, it's always been gradual. For example look at some of the '04 Outbacks (silver monotone). They had a lower black lip that ran around the car's lower edge, which hinted at what the '05 models had.
I think it's the same with the OBS-SE. It hints at what future Imprezas might be like. Yeah, I'm sure boosting sales is part of the plan. Isn't it always?
Dave, it's not just Subaru customers. People, as a rule, don't like change. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." How many times have we heard that—regarding anything?
The problem is, with small companies, change is risky, hence the strong preference for gradual transitions. When a abrupt change is deemed necessary (as with the new front end design), it has to be handled with great care.
Actually car maker's today are faced with a "damned if you , damned if you don't" situation with changes. You either make the change and risk alienating your core customers, or not make the change and get criticized by the media and potetial customers for being too conservative. The automotive media is especially guilty of promoting this way of thinking. Take the examples of BMW and Jaguar as an example. Everyone is criticizing BMW for departing from their traditional styling and going for something bold and daring and at the same time criticizing Jaguar for not breaking from tradition on the XJ sedan and making it more bold and daring.
Differences are subtle but I can spot the new ones from a mile away.
Of course I'm OCD...
I guess I'm guilty as charged, I rarely like new/different models, with a few exceptions, at first. Some do grow on me, not all.
I do not think all redesigns are improvements, though. When you look back, there is always a sweet spot in design. You like a certain BMW, maybe the 633csi or the '94 M3.
When you look back, there is always a sweet spot in design. You like a certain BMW, maybe the 633csi or the '94 M3.
I'm convinced much of those positive feeling are due to nostalgia. The vehicles have been around for a long time, you're used to them, there's a level of comfort there with the looks, etc. I really think a lot of people often confuse styling (not necessarily you) with warm fuzzy feelings they've had with a particular car. Some people love the looks of the original VW Beetle, or the Model T Ford. Go figure...
Well, I never owned either. Come to think of it I haven't even driven either one.
I do like some cars right off the bat. The new Legacy, for starters. The upcoming 911 (again an update of a classic design).
Ugly cars lately? Galant, Malibu, Endeavor, Vue, Accord, Avalon, BMW 7, etc.
Lots of them get it right. Mercedes, Jaguar, Mazda, and Porsche do not build a single ugly car, IMHO.
Mazda is a good example, they have a lineup with a good family resemblance and none of them are outlandish or ungainly. You recognize them all as Mazdas, and they're all handsome. I'd have to give them the 2004 Style Award.
I could agree about the XJ if I hadn't had the opportunity to drive one. That is where the night and day difference is. I kind of fall into the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp. Personally I think all of the XJ's (except the XJ40) have been incredibly good looking vehicles that have a design history that doesn't need to be radically redone or "Bangleized". I tend to be one of the people who think BMW is heading in the wrong direction, both stylistically and in their current technical philosophy. Our disagreements on this point out that old saying "You can't please everybody".
Comments
must be nice....
-juice
I bet colin from connecticut is loving this.
2. Most curious question i have is, the article says this model gained 500lbs, what in the world did they do ? and it still reaches 0-60 in 6.9 sec
cost around 32-35k. good looks.....will compete well with legacy...though a bit smaller.
http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=8- 432
Even though we seem to be off-topic, all of this is relevant to the family-oriented Tribeca.
Having a DVD option would be wise, having room for a notebook computer between the front seats would be a big selling point to me. I'd also like 110 volt power.
While I'm at it, give me plenty of cup holders, juice box holders, even a baby bottle holder (taller) and a water bottle holder in the door. These things cost about 20 cents each, just design them in.
I also want LOTS of storage. The Forester is good in that regard, so just scale that up, more is better.
S40 T5 was decent, not great. The Legacy is much nicer inside, you'd think the badges were swapped if you compared them. The engine is nice, but the base suspension is a little soft, and the sport suspension is rock hard. They need an intermediate setting.
The Legacy rides a lot better, and handles just as well as the sport package. Better, actually, because there is no torque steer.
To be honest I cannot think of a single thing the T5 does better than a Leg GT.
In terms of size, an S40 is much smaller, closer to a WRX. The V50 is a lot roomier, though, and beats the WRX wagon for practicality, but then again the Forester beats the V50 easily.
-juice
Bless Edmunds for not having that crap.
-juice
Thanks, though.
-juice
--s
~c
PS I've been silent lately but this goes too far! that's a Cafe topic, not even remotely close to a Subaru Future Model.
Just might wanna wait for the B4 and not get the 05 legacy.
I am sure B4 will be here.
I just spoke to a salesman & he said Subaru is very committed to selling a lot of cars, they are going to start giving rebates on 05 soon.
BTW, HE SAID 05 LEG/OB MID YEAR MODELS WILL BE ANNOUNCED WITH NAV............WATCH OUT !
Acura TL MSRP is 35k vs OB XT LTD 33k.
This is what Acura offers that OB XT LTD doesn;t:
1. Nav ( voice recog)
2. XM
3. Handsfree link
4. Memory seats
5. 270 HP
6. Auto 6-spead
7. Xenon lights
8. 4-year/50k warranty
9. 270 hp naturally aspirated engine
10. Premium surround sound
11. Telescoping steer wheel
12. Xenon lights
13. Vehicle stable assist.
Doesn't the list above justify 2-3k difference.
Above all, Acura is more likely to retain sales value compared to a 33k XT LTd
I understand TL, i will be paying close to 34k but XT i can get for 31k, still 3k difference for all the above features,
I am spell bound ! help me out here, guys.
~c
The main downside to the TL in my opinion is the FWD, and it should be apparent to anyone doing a serious test drive. That is way too much HP for a FWD vehicle, and the car mags gripe about it too. Otherwise, the TL is a sweet car.
By the way, the TL auto is 5-spd, only the manual is a 6-spd. Don't assume that a 6-speed MT is better than a 5-spd MT, it just depends on the engine and other driving characteristics.
Of course, the main difference between the OB XT and the TL is that one is a sport-utility wagon and one is a sport-sedan. You'd have a fairer comparison with a Legacy GT sedan, not an Outback wagon.
Craig
Yep, and then the price difference is even greater between the GT Limited sedan and TL.
I agree with Craig. 270 hp is a lot for a FWD car. Now if the TL had the SH-AWD found in the new '05 RL, then it's a different story... But it doesn't, at least not yet.
Bob
Hmmm.. the 'anti-status' status vehicle? Hopefully that leaves room for an econmical version.
Owen
Don't forget that companies like Audi and Volvo, where AWD is an option, charge about $2,000 for it. So... apples to apples, consider that a (hypothetically) comparable TL is really $5k more than the XT.
Nevertheless, it depends what's important to you. Nav, memory seats, and handsfree are nice, but I'd still trade it for the security of AWD. Now, if Acura comes out with an AWD TL, I'd have to seriously think about it, because the TL is one gorgeous car! Good luck,
Elliot
Mid-year Nav, eh? That'll appease a few complainers.
OB is a wagon, that costs $1000 more than sedans, add another $2000 for AWD. That's a $3000 value.
The OB will be more versatile, go anywhere, clear snow, carry 4 times the cargo, even more on the roof rack, and tow better to boot.
Nav is coming. HIDs get stolen easily, and the projectors are great already. XM costs very little. I think Paul was offering a free service coupon in one thread, plus Subaru's powertrain warranty is longer. I'd choose AWD over VSA by a wide margin.
Instead of an OB XT Ltd, compare a Legacy GT limited sedan, and the price difference is kinda huge, and you still get AWD.
Does the TL have wiper de-icers and heated mirrors? Also, no roof rack, no cross bars, what about fog lights? Wagon body. AWD.
You should make a list of things the Subaru has that the Acura does not have, I bet it's just as long.
-juice
-Dennis
Too bad.
-juice
Bob
-Dennis
* start with a basic X model
* add the turbo engine
* moonroof as a stand-alone option
That's it! I'll accessorize the rest myself.
-juice
see reviews of legacy, how many people cross-shopped.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/subaru/legacy/100397025/ratings_c- onsumersdetail.html?dcr_usein=n&modelid=100503245&tid=edm- unds.n.ratings_consumer.content..5.Subaru*
I think it's the same with the OBS-SE. It hints at what future Imprezas might be like. Yeah, I'm sure boosting sales is part of the plan. Isn't it always?
Bob
-juice
-Dave
The problem is, with small companies, change is risky, hence the strong preference for gradual transitions. When a abrupt change is deemed necessary (as with the new front end design), it has to be handled with great care.
Bob
-Dennis
A modernization of a classical design isn't that risky. Is it really getting that much criticism?
-juice
Bob
Yes it is, and I'm one of the critics. I can't tell the new and old models apart,unless they're sitting side-by-side one another.
Bob
Of course I'm OCD...
I guess I'm guilty as charged, I rarely like new/different models, with a few exceptions, at first. Some do grow on me, not all.
I do not think all redesigns are improvements, though. When you look back, there is always a sweet spot in design. You like a certain BMW, maybe the 633csi or the '94 M3.
-juice
I'm convinced much of those positive feeling are due to nostalgia. The vehicles have been around for a long time, you're used to them, there's a level of comfort there with the looks, etc. I really think a lot of people often confuse styling (not necessarily you) with warm fuzzy feelings they've had with a particular car. Some people love the looks of the original VW Beetle, or the Model T Ford. Go figure...
Bob
I do like some cars right off the bat. The new Legacy, for starters. The upcoming 911 (again an update of a classic design).
Ugly cars lately? Galant, Malibu, Endeavor, Vue, Accord, Avalon, BMW 7, etc.
Lots of them get it right. Mercedes, Jaguar, Mazda, and Porsche do not build a single ugly car, IMHO.
Mazda is a good example, they have a lineup with a good family resemblance and none of them are outlandish or ungainly. You recognize them all as Mazdas, and they're all handsome. I'd have to give them the 2004 Style Award.
-juice
You don't have to have owned one to have positive nostalgic feelings.
Bob
Our disagreements on this point out that old saying "You can't please everybody".
The muscular curves on the hood were a Jag trademark, it just became plain dull.
If you look at the bug-eyed WRX, that's exactly what it was lacking - a more muscular hood.
-juice