I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

ab348 · October 2021

texases said:
I don’t know. I’d think do, given how you could mix and match things when you ordered a car back then. It wouldn’t have been a Twister, it would have been badged a 340 or 360. But maybe you could have gotten the performance options without the stripes and fake hood scoops.

According to the brochures, it wasn't possible. You could get a Duster with no bigger engine than a 318. If you wanted a 340, you had to buy the Duster 340 model. The brochure explicitly says that the 340 was n/a in a regular Duster.

fintail · October 2021

Duster was also reborn, in the 90s as a somewhat neat for the time Sundance V6, and in the 80s, seen in this earworm period piece:

https://youtu.be/1ZGwGFpjFxI

uplanderguy · October 2021

I forgot the 'Gold Duster', and don't remember the 'Silver Duster'. What were included in those trims?

texases · October 2021

The Silver Duster was a ‘76 option package with tape stripes and a special seat covering.

tjc78 · October 2021

@fintail said:
Duster was also reborn, in the 90s as a somewhat neat for the time Sundance V6, and in the 80s, seen in this earworm period piece:

https://youtu.be/1ZGwGFpjFxI

If that doesn’t scream 80s, nothing does.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Calling andre, but I'm thinking the '76 Valiants and Dusters and Darts were only around until the Aspen/Volare were introduced. I don't believe they were sold/marketed simultaneously. Is that your impression?

At the time, I thought the Dart/Valiant was long-in-the-tooth (vent windows in front doors of sedans, etc.), but when I think back, the cars seemed like a quality piece at that size and price class. No other compact did two-door hardtops for a bunch of years before them.

Similarly, the Aspen/Volare did a nice-looking wagon when no other compacts wagons were made domestically.

I thought the Aspen/Volare coupes, when introduced, were sharp. I liked the smoother lines and sort-of triangular big quarter windows. Later years, when they added various shapes and thiings to the taillights, and/or made them BIG, I didn't like the rear styling as well as the original.

ab348 · October 2021

Chrysler sold a whole lot of '76 Volares and Aspens and a decent number of '77s, but the word was out early that they were troublesome cars. It was unfortunate because for the times they had a lot of things in their favor, but the poor driveability and very bad build quality (not something Chrysler was known for back then especially) really hurt them. I remember test driving a '77 Aspen SE wagon with my parents in September of '77 when they were looking for a new car. It was very nice inside (car was medium blue outside with woodgrain, blue vinyl uplevel interior) but it really understeered even around town and felt sluggish. Mom didn't like it, was never sure why, so it didn't stand a chance.

explorerx4 · October 2021

Look what Adam just picked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_7UsSZup_w

andre1969 · October 2021

I'm not sure when in 1976 the Dart/Valiant were discontinued, or when the Aspen/Volare were introduced, so there might have been some overlap for a bit. I seem to recall the Aspen/Volare being pushed as an upscale compact, with Granada/Monarch aspirations, rather than going for the mainstream market, at least initially.

Sales-wise, Plymouth moved about 84,000 Valiant/Dusters in '76, and about 291,000 Volares.

In 1975 they sold about 265,000 Valiant/Dusters. So on the surface, it looks like the Volare was a hit. However, the economy was improving by '76. And Volare wagon was pretty much unrivaled at that time, and was good for about 95,000 units all by itself. There was the AMC Hornet, but it was notably smaller inside, in in the rear was more like a hatchback than a "real" wagon, where the opening extended all the way down to the floor of the cargo area.

The Volare won Motortrend's Car of the Year award for 1976, and is shown on the February 1976 magazine cover. I don't know long it takes Motortrend to actually do their COTY testing, but figure that magazine probably hit the shelves in January. So, either MT got ahold of a pre-production example, or the Aspen/Volare were actually out for the majority of the model year.

Towards the end, I think they were pushing the Dart/Valiant as low-end transportation. At least, I remember one advertisement that said "Dart: The Car for the Thrifty Family Man" or something like that.

The Aspen/Volare did sell well in '76-77, but fell off for '78. Ironically, quality was greatly improved by then, but the bad reputation had gotten out. By '78 they were also getting a bit outmoded, and new competition from the Fairmont/Zephyr, and even GM's downsized intermediates started crowding this market.

uplanderguy · October 2021

The people across the street from us back then, bought either a '76 or '77 Volare new. Four-door sedan. It was every bit as basic inside and out as any Valiant I'd seen, LOL.

I also remember it was a Volare, but said "Aspen" on the decklid, which the folks had corrected by the dealer.

A friend of a friend of mine worked at a Mopar dealer in Sharon, about 15 miles away. Supposedly they'd get in Omnis and Horizons with wrong nameplates too. He joked that they called them "Plodge Homnis".

uplanderguy · October 2021

"Rare car! 1970 Caprice"! I grew up loving Chevys, but...rare?

I know, they mean the engine.

I am a sucker for an original/authentic, low-mileage car, almost no matter the brand.

I can still remember the first '70 Caprice I saw, prior to introduction day, getting dolled up for intro day. Light blue four-door hardtop with body-color on the full wheelcovers. Grumpy old salesman Virgil said to me, age 11 on my bike, "A Chevy for $5,000. Geez. You can buy an Olds or Buick for that".

I think he may have wanted me to stop hanging around so often and quit asking questions and maybe pester the Olds/Buick dealer across town, LOL.

That interior appears to be the nylon/knit interior, one of two cloth choices (the other, a brocade). That nylon/knit interior always wore like iron.

Those tiny bumper guards always cracked me up....like they'd do anything. Plus, the bumper is peaked in the center and the guards are off the center.

I'll say this--I'd say up until 1970, Chevy was great for putting their money where you could see it...interiors, standard exterior trim, etc. You maybe still had slightly smaller wheelbases in the big cars, comparatively small standard V8's and Powerglide as the entry-level automatic, but the interiors were impressive at the price point.

The '70 Caprice said 'Caprice' on the steering wheel, above the glovebox, and on the door panels, in case anyone would miss it.

That first-style Rally Wheels option (five-slot) were the best-looking Rallys Chevy ever made. They were no longer available on a big Chevy after '70 but were available on Monte Carlos through '77 and Chevelles from '74 to '77. The Nova, Chevelle ('71 and '72), and Camaro offered the cheaper-looking Rally Wheels in '71 and later.

fintail · October 2021

That Caprice is a looker, pairs well with that black on blue 73 Galaxie hardtop he has, I like that car. I wonder if the wheels on the Caprice are original to the car, must have been a special order with that engine.

Speaking of Aspenlare or Volaspen, spotted this at a park and ride lot in Schaffhausen Switzerland years ago, was out of place enough for me to have to take a pic, my Swiss friend thought I was nuts:

roadburner · October 2021

In 1981 I saw a pristine 1967 Riviera in Geneva, Switzerland.

fintail · October 2021

Numerous American cars in Switzerland, and not just classics brought over by enthusiasts - I think it was much easier to privately import a car there than to much of the continent, or maybe there were some private import firms. Mopars seemed most prevalent, but I recall a bit of GM content too. Digging through the archive, some unexpected taxis doing duty in Zurich:

uplanderguy · October 2021

Are the yellow taillight lenses a requirement there?

That Caprice is no older than an '86 and (of course) no newer than a '90. I do think that styling has largely stood the test of time.

I never liked the Brougham LS vinyl roof that partly covered over the little vent-style window in the rear doors. It was done first by Mopar on the Fifth Avenue and Chevy really just cribbed the idea. Luckily the car in the pic is a Brougham but not a Brougham LS.

fintail · October 2021

I think there's a local lighting standard, yeah.

That vinyl covering rear door window option also makes me think of the late run Fleetwood.

uplanderguy said:
Are the yellow taillight lenses a requirement there?

That Caprice is no older than an '86 and (of course) no newer than a '90. I do think that styling has largely stood the test of time.

I never liked the Brougham LS vinyl roof that partly covered over the little vent-style window in the rear doors. It was done first by Mopar on the Fifth Avenue and Chevy really just cribbed the idea. Luckily the car in the pic is a Brougham but not a Brougham LS.

uplanderguy · October 2021

That is like the later Broughams. I guess the Fifth Avenue didn't leave any small window beneath the vinyl covering on the door. I'm not an enormous-car fan, but I didn't care for those last Broughams of the maybe '90-92 variety? They not only had the vinyl roof on part of the rear door, they had the lower 1/3 or 1/2 of the car silver no matter the rest of the exterior, I'm thinking.

If I were looking for a later Brougham, I'd pick whatever year got you the 5.7, but where they didn't have that trim stuff we are talking about.

andre1969 · October 2021

uplanderguy said:
That is like the later Broughams. I guess the Fifth Avenue didn't leave any small window beneath the vinyl covering on the door. I'm not an enormous-car fan, but I didn't care for those last Broughams of the maybe '90-92 variety? They not only had the vinyl roof on part of the rear door, they had the lower 1/3 or 1/2 of the car silver no matter the rest of the exterior, I'm thinking.

If I were looking for a later Brougham, I'd pick whatever year got you the 5.7, but where they didn't have that trim stuff we are talking about.

Hate to say it, but the car you're looking for might not exist, at least not from the factory. 1989 was the last year of the "classic" style Brougham, with the quad headlights and such. For 1990-92, it got the composite headlights "R-body" roof treatment (like a '79-81 New Yorker), and that lower contrast. However, I'm pretty sure in 1989 the only engine choice was the 307. The 350 might have been offered as part of a chassis/coach-builder package, but unless you wanted a limo or hearse, you were probably stuck with the 307.

1990 was the last year for the 307, but they did offer the 350 as part of a trailering package. And then for 1991-92, the 305 became the base engine and the 350 was optional.

sda · October 2021

Cadillac really took the cheap and lazy way of updating the DeVille/Fleetwood/Brougham for the series 77-90. Typically minor cosmetic changes and weak engine choices ( after 81). The later models had the awkward door mounted front seat belts, which were a poor excuse for passive safety. The dash design especially looked tired by 90. I guess Cadillac thought all the shiny plastic wood made a luxurious statement. I liked dad’s 78 Sedan de Ville d’Elegance, but later models not so much as they were much the same and stale looking by then.

fintail · October 2021

Big facelift for Caddy for MY 1980, then not much on the Fleetwoods for ages. Just because MB can get away with it doesn't mean everyone can

A mystery car entrant reminded me, I saw an Austin America on the road on Saturday, driving! In pristine condition, which I guess is how they are, either loved or abandoned.

uplanderguy · October 2021

If I couldn't get a 350 in a Cadillac Brougham prior to the early '90's styling revisions I didn't like at all, I'd take the 307. That would offend me less than the silver lower body sides and vinyl top that reaches onto the rear doors!

I was never crazy about that '77-92 RWD Cadillac instrument panel, with the very big 'snout' in the center. That said, although I goof on tons of fake woodgrain in the 'lesser' GM brands, for some reason my mind always expects that, and lots of bright metal-looking interior trim, in a Cadillac.

My father-in-law had a 2004 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series which I drove. Cadillac by that time had blanded-down the interiors as well, but I remember the door panel, especially area around the pull handle inside, almost was Taurus-like. And I'm not making a compliment. I also remember the door panel flexing when the window went up and down.

I do like bright work around pull straps on a door panel, above the lower carpeted panel, around a trim insert, stuff like that. I know, I'm about thirty years too late. What became to pass as 'good taste' in expensive car interior materials, I saw as bland.

tjc78 · October 2021

I do like bright work around pull straps on a door panel, above the lower carpeted panel, around a trim insert, stuff like that.

04 Town Car would have had all that.

uplanderguy · October 2021

I seem to remember quite a bit of beige vinyl/plastic. Here's a link. Not seeing chromed ends of strap, chrome divider for lower carpeting, or chrome surround of woodgrain panel. Plastic door handle. Caddy was done with that type of stuff by the same time as well, sigh.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Here's a Brougham interior from '91. Old-skool for sure, but in my mind, this is what a Cadillac interior should be trimmed like. Just a matter of personal taste of course. The '92 would've been the last of Caddy interiors like this.

uplanderguy · October 2021

There is a very clean, I'd say '92 or '93 Coupe deVille in our town, light blue metallic over silver on the sides, proper-width whitewalls, factory aluminum wheels, no vinyl top so it has the large square quarter window, that looks like a one-year-old car.

That is a more 'modern' Cadillac that I could like owning. Nice size, good use of space, Cadillac heritage styling, two doors, really unlike anything else being made at the time.

Found a pic online that looks EXACTLY like the car. I didn't like them at the time, but I could like one as a distinctive '90's domestic luxury car today. Boxy, but looks like roomy coupe interior which was largely passe by then. And I like no padded top. V8, FWD.

Of course, in a hobby car, I like different/under-the-radar. Not saying everything I'd like as a 'fun' car today is something I would've bought new.

explorerx4 · October 2021

I see a lot of plasti-chrome in that Cadillac interior.

uplanderguy · October 2021

In a top-end car, I'll take plastichrome over just plastic. I think plastichrome on the Town Car's door handles would have been an improvement.

I only mentioned the '04 Town Car as I was somewhat familiar with that car. But look at the shift lever and turn signal lever in that pic of the Town Car. Looks like they could have come from my Cruze (if I could've gotten a column shift, LOL). Total flat black plastic.

I just remember thinking in my father-in-law's car, how far (in my mind) 'domestic luxury' had dropped.

Again, MHO only.

ab348 · October 2021

explorerx4 said:
I see a lot of plasti-chrome in that Cadillac interior.

When Cadillac started increasing sales volume in the early '70s, they really began to cheapen up the trim with lots of plastic bits, fake woodgrain, and plastichrome. The difference in quality between one from the 1960s and then was quite apparent. But people still bought them because they kept the seats plush and of course the image (for good or bad) that the cars had, until the brand lost its way entirely.

uplanderguy · October 2021

I think Cadillac's (and Pontiac's full-size) instrument panels of the '65-66 years were outstanding. I think with added safety requirements, the panels got blander and bright metal got replaced with plastichrome and real wood, with woodgrain vinyl and plastic. But at least plastichrome is still bright. I know what you mean about small things like interior nameplates out of plastic, etc. I actually think some of Cadillac's interiors actually got more-expensive-looking in the downsizing years. I still love the '70's Seville interior.

I never cared for fake woodgrain made to look like rifle stocks, LOL. Cadillac did that in the early '70's, and so did Pontiac in my memory in some Grand Villes.

One obvious cheapening-out thing in '75-76 big Fleetwoods was--I always loved how for most of the sixties and through '72, you got individual 'FLEETWOOD' lettering low on the front fenders. In '73 it became a script, just like any other Caddy model, and in '75-76 they returned to the look of individual block letters on the front fenders for Fleetwoods, but they were a one-piece thing--the nameplate was mounted on, for lack of a better word, a body-colored 'bar' and applied to the car. Definite cheapening out.

I will say, talk about excess, but I like it, is the '74 Fleetwood Talisman leather interior. I've never seen one in person. I like the unusual or not-often-seen. There was one guy in my small hometown who had a new '74 Talisman with the blue velour seating, but the leather here takes it to a whole 'nother level, LOL.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Pockets on the back of front-seat backs--I hate when you can tell that people actually used those, LOL! On older cars, like this Talisman, they usually look all stretched-out.

andre1969 · October 2021

One thing I'll say for the interior of that old school Brougham that Uplander posted, is that just one quick look, and I know it's a Caddy! And, for better or worse, that screams "luxury" to me. Or at least, "American Luxury". But then I look at the Town Car, and at a quick glance it just looks generic. Unless you're really familiar with these cars, it just doesn't just jump out as a "Lincoln", unless you zoom in and see the logo on the steering wheel.

My grandmother's cousin had an '89 Coupe DeVille. I think she had it until 2014 or 2015. I drove it a few times. One thing that bugged me about it is that it felt like a bigger car than it was, almost to the point that I was thinking, if it's going to handle like that, what was the point in downsizing them?! However, it was comfortable. And, considering neither Grandmom's cousin nor her idiot son exactly pampered that car, it stood the test of time. I think she gave up driving when she hit 90, and one of her friends sold the car for her and got her $800, but I'm not sure. At least, 2014-2015 would be around the time she hit 90, and I never saw her drive after that. And that $800 is sticking in my mind.

I do remember that car spoiling her, too. Her prior car had been a 1979 Volare wagon. As she got up in years, I remember some people telling her she should get something newer, cheap, economical, and reliable, like a Corolla, but she did not want to give up that Cadillac!

tjc78 · October 2021

@uplanderguy said:
I seem to remember quite a bit of beige vinyl/plastic. Here's a link. Not seeing chromed ends of strap, chrome divider for lower carpeting, or chrome surround of woodgrain panel. Plastic door handle. Caddy was done with that type of stuff by the same time as well, sigh.

I see your point. The ends of the door strap were actually meant to look like satin gold as was much of the trim work in the 03-11 LTCs.

Much different than that shiny chrome work on the 70s/80s cars.

explorerx4 · October 2021

Quite a space age looking instrument panel, not to mention the rest of the car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh8-FMwMado

ab348 · October 2021

The Astradome was a thing of beauty. It even had electroluminescent illumination.

fintail · October 2021

I saw that TC and thought "Grand Marquis", gotta love a corporate steering wheel.

uplanderguy said:
In a top-end car, I'll take plastichrome over just plastic. I think plastichrome on the Town Car's door handles would have been an improvement.

I only mentioned the '04 Town Car as I was somewhat familiar with that car. But look at the shift lever and turn signal lever in that pic of the Town Car. Looks like they could have come from my Cruze (if I could've gotten a column shift, LOL). Total flat black plastic.

I just remember thinking in my father-in-law's car, how far (in my mind) 'domestic luxury' had dropped.

Again, MHO only.

explorerx4 · October 2021

I saw the Cadillac and thought snap together Revell kit.

fintail · October 2021

The Fleetwood dash/wheel makes me think "1977" or "1978", which I suppose is accurate.

andre1969 · October 2021

That Canadian Saratoga is pretty cool. At least, I'm presuming it's Canadian? In the US, the Saratoga was dropped after 1960, and it was on the longer 126" wb, rather than 122". Every once in awhile, I've seen a '61 DeSoto locally at car shows, in a similar color, sort of a copper/brownish/dusty-rose, depending on how the light hits it.

tjc78 · October 2021

@fintail said:
I saw that TC and thought "Grand Marquis", gotta love a corporate steering wheel.

After 1989 there really wasn’t much distinction between a Lincoln and the Ford/Mercury versions of the Panther.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Two Fords spotted when I visited Mt. Airy, NC (Andy Griffith's hometown) last week.

'67 Custom 500 cruiser parked on Main St., and probably '64-66 F-100 with "Emmett's Fix-It Shop" on the doors.

The F-100 had painted on the tailgate, "Sponsor of the Mayberry Rollers".

fintail · October 2021

Nice that the police car is a Custom and not an LTD hardtop or something else inappropriate. Hubcaps on that pickup are very much like those on our 66 Galaxie.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Yeah, Andy's patrol cars were always the base-line cars, which in reality would have been a Custom instead of a Custom 500, but out at the motel I stayed at, they had a '63 Galaxie 500 police car on display--too high-falutin' a model.

I've mentioned this here before, but I've seen virtually the entire eight seasons on TV in the past year or so. It's on a couple cable channels every night, but only the black-and-white episodes (seasons 1-5). In my opinion the color episodes get an unfair bad rap. (They are available free to watch when you have Amazon Prime). Other than Barney is only in five episodes, as a guest, in the last three seasons, I think that generally, the writing is better in the color episodes. Each is like a small play. The humor is more restrained/gentle, but the little moral at the end is often better IMHO.

There are a couple 'jump the shark' episodes in seasons 6-8 however. When they go to Hollywood as a movie is being made about Andy--and also the episode where Aunt Bee learns to fly--are the biggest offenders.

While there I drove the 1 1/2 hrs. to Siler City, the small town mentioned in the show where Frances Bavier, "Aunt Bee", actually moved to from 1972 to her death in 1989. Here is the house she lived in (her '66 Studebaker Daytona featured prominently in an episode of 'Mayberry RFD' stayed in the garage here until her death), and also here is her headstone in the local cemetery there (people leave pickles in homage to the 'kerosene cucumbers' classic episode):

uplanderguy · October 2021

The "Andy Griffith Museum" in Mt. Airy was very enjoyable, if not smallish. They have the original doors to the courthouse, Andy's office set and furniture, a jail cell with the original key ring on the wall which Otis would help himself to, and outfits from several of the show's characters. Outside is a lifesize bronze statue copied from the show's opening, showing Andy and Opie headed to the fishin' hole. I'm happy I visited. I'll tell you, that town is "all in" as 'Mayberry'. Apparently furniture used to be made there, but that industry left as happened in so many smaller American towns. They've embraced the nostagia/tourism. I ate at "Barney's" for breakfast, went in "Floyd's CIty Barber Shop" and ate lunch at the "Snappy Lunch" and had a famous pork chop sandwich. That place has been there since the 1920's and was mentioned on the show. When I left there, there was a line half-a-block long waiting to get in.

On the way home passed a caravan including five camouflaged C8 Corvettes. I'm thinking they might have been the Z06 which is soon-to-be-introduced. Best pic I could get of one while driving.

uplanderguy · October 2021

Comically, the next town to Mt. Airy is Pilot Mountain. On the show they frequently mentioned the next town to Mayberry as "Mt. Pilot".

stickguy · October 2021

The z06 has now been unveiled.

tjc78 · October 2021

Anyone who wastes time on TikTok… check out @underappreciatedclassics

They post all kinds of dealer training videos and content that would interest many of you here.

Just watched one on tue early 80s Mark VI. I now after all these years realized the 4 version of that was to compete against the Seville, while obviously the two door was the Eldorado.

ab348 · October 2021

A 1961 Ford unibody pickup on BaT today. These are pretty rare now. Cosmetically nice, though with a generic re-upholstery job inside and a a pretty base spec powertrain, so maybe not so much fun to drive. Looks cool though.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1961-ford-f-100-9/

stickguy · October 2021

So the Maverick isn’t really a new idea!

uplanderguy · October 2021

Those unibody Ford pickups are one of my very favorite pickups made by anybody. I always liked how the rear wheel openings somewhat mimicked the fronts. I like the taillights too.

Before I knew they were unibody, I remember trying to describe this series truck to a longtime Ford friend of mine, who is a decade older than me. I'd say, "They're like the ones up to '66, but the rear wheel wells resembled the front", to which I'd get an odd stare!

Funny, the ones that they introduced in '62 with the old '57-60 wide bed, and even the ones with the '64-66 wide bed, did nothing for me, but those unibodies, did. I grew up Chevy but the '60-66 Chevy trucks do absolutely zero for me.

The "Emmett's Fix It Shop" truck I pictured above was a stepside, so it had the old rear fenders and bed Ford started using in '53.

explorerx4 · October 2021

That truck is actually shorter than a new Maverick by about a foot.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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