Someone needs to educate me about why the 2.5L SOHC engines from Japan (in the 2005 Impreza and Forester) are rated at 165 HP while the 2005 Legacy/Outback 2.5i versions made in Lafayette, IN are rated at 168 HP, assuming one isn't buying in (or adjacent to) a state which has adopted Cal emissions regs. I guess Lafayette simply builds tighter engines.
I think there could be a market for it here. It would certainly get a huge amount of press, for sure. It would show Subaru is very much at the leading edge of urban transportation.
Back in the 60s, Fiat sold the 600 (as in 600cc engine) micro car here, and it was fairly successful for a while. I think the time has come again (in this age of $2.00 gas) to look at these types of cars again.
We have to wonder if it's compatible with Subaru's "premium" strategy.
Also, it would have to compete with hybrids for mileage.
They need some help, maybe HOV lane access or some other privilege besides mpg. Fuel efficiency doesn't even crack the top 10, even with gas prices so high.
Check out the interior, specifically the last 2 images, and note the following:
• What is that do-hicky knob attached to the steering wheel? It looks like there is some sort of yellow switch that is part of it?
• The last image shows three levers. One is the gear shift. The emergency brake is between the seats. What is the third lever with a dog-leg sprouting from the floor near the gear shift?
Ken, the next time you're in Japan, you've got to check this R1 out, and fill us in on the details.
All have 658cc engines. All are available in FWD or AWD.
________________________
I think the precedent set here with the R2 will be the pattern used on all future Subies. So, if we use "B5" as an example, I expect to see a B5i (base), B5S (mid-level) and B5S or B5T (turbo). I think the last letter being "X" will be used exclusively for crossovers, which may include Outbacks. Outbacks could use the letter "V" for versatility?
Another thought: Volvo uses a lowercase "t" for their low-boost turbos, and an uppercase "T" for their high-boost turbos. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Subaru does the same. So for example, the low-boost Forester 2.5XT could be renamed the B3t, whereas the high-boost Impreza WRX could be renamed B5T; same with the (high-boost) Legacy 2.5GT, it could become the B7T.
I suspect STi models will just add "STi" to the end of the name. So, the Impreza WRX STi would become the B5T-STi
________________________
So with this in mind, I expect the base B9X to be called the B9Xi. Not sure what Subaru might letter Subaru might use for mid-level/high-end B9Xs, but it would fall into this pattern I would think.
I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the legacy engines were still built in Japan because the engine line here in Indiana was not complete. I'm betting on lower exhaust pressure. Note that the legacy is the only car by Subaru with the twin exhausts. TWRX now a Legacy owner "Ag Ltd."
Juice- should we expect to see AVCS on the base 2.5 Legacys in the near future? Or perhaps more along the lines of a mid-cycle refresh? I always thought it a bit odd that Subaru chose to skip the AVCS with the redesign- it seems like it is no longer such an expensive technology, and the added fuel efficiency (in terms of credits and for the customer) and power benefits would outweigh that.
FWIW, our 05 feels like its loosening up. Of course it could just be in my head, lol, but after 4000 miles and the first oil change, acceleration seems stronger.
Bob: that yellow thing on the steering wheel looks like a "necker's nob". )
I used to valet park back in college, and once a Porsche 944 drove up that was equipped that way. Took a minute to adjust to driving it but I managed to park it.
Dave: R2 diesel twin-turbo would indeed be an R2D2.
nabisco, regarding Subaru naming, and especially as it pertains to the R2.
Apparently in German "Reihe" = "linear", that would explain the "R". In some car magazines "R4" is used to describe a linear 4-cylinder engine, also R5 and R6 are used (linear 5- and 6-cylinder engines). "Linear" is used as in meaning "inline" engines.
I'm assuming that "Boxer" mean horizontally opposed in German, or something like that.
We know that Subaru loves to use English and German expressions (and German number plates ...)
about the Baja being dropped, here and elsewhere. Well, it wouldn't surprise me if the "name" Baja is dropped, as Subaru is clearly moving towards an alpha-numeric model naming system. I just find it hard to believe Subaru would give up on the pickup idea altogether.
If they do decide to build a new lifestyle pickup off the B9X platform, they could easily name it B9U, B9V, B10X or something else along those lines.
Yeah, that is definitely a bad photoshop job (actually the graphics part of it is decent, but the artistic part blows!). That is too nose heavy, and the Legacy headlights look too big.
I stumbled on this an FHI report (2004) which mentions fairly definitively the planning of diesel and hybrid powertrains.
"Based on this symmetrical AWD system, Subaru will aim to enhance its environmental performance as it strides ahead into the future while retaining its unique Subaru driving performance, and it is taking the advanced step of developing a horizontally-opposed diesel engine and researching new hybrid systems. "
I agree. Get Isuzu to provide technical expertise to aid in the design. The Duramax is theirs, for instance. They've provided diesels to Honda in Europe, as well.
Not to mention they own several patents for Direct Injection, something I'd like to see spill over (pardon the pun) to Subaru's gas engines.
GM paid all that cash for Isuzu, now put it to good use!
Cute, yes. Distinctive, no. I don't see this as a path for Subaru to follow if the brand is going up market, in which all the players have frontend styling that's instantly recognizable.
This may be nothing more than Subaru Japan offering a unique model for their market. Remember, Subaru is famous for offering different grille options in the past for the JDM. This may be nothing more than that.
is cloud the message Subaru has been sending the last year or so about their new "design language."
It muddies the water, and suggests Subaru may not be all that confident about what they are doing, and that is a definite no-no in marketing—especially when you're trying to re-position the brand in the marketplace.
I do not think this was a good idea on Subaru's part.
Bland is better than ugly, and bland has worked extremely well for Toyota who is now the number 2 maker in the world, and number one in many countries including Canada.
Bland is better than ugly, and bland has worked extremely well for Toyota who is now the number 2 maker in the world, and number one in many countries including Canada.
It won't work for Subaru, and I disagree that what they are doing is ugly. Subaru is not a carmaker that caters to the masses. In addition they are moving up market, and every vehicle they will be competing against has a distinctive look.
The last thing in the world I would want Subaru to look like is a Toyota.
Subaru is about to spring this new look on the world with a "real" production vehicle (not a JDM micro car) that will likely be sold in a number of world markets in about 6 weeks, and now this new R2 with a Ford Focus face shows up, in turn casting doubt about this new design direction.
Seems like HUGE! a bonehead marketing move, if I ever saw one. I sometimes wonder what's going through the heads of those marketing Subaru products...
Oh yeah! Put direct infection, edit injection (getting over pneumonia)
on all future subaru models gas and diesel.
Don't let that technology go down the drain if and when Isuzu kicks the bucket. Hopefully they won't but sales are slow to nil. They'll probably stay small as a part of GM for diesels and for the commercial truck market.
Comments
So a 175-180hp AWD model would feel about as quick as a 165hp FWD model.
-juice
Eric
FWIW, the Forester is rated the highest in reliability among all Subies, and it's made in Japan.
-juice
Not sure what the differences are, but they felt very different.
Sly
Ken
Every little bit helps. I don't think the internals are all that different. The 2.5i doesn't have AVCS either (it should).
-juice
It looks neat.
Bob
-juice
Bob
-juice
Back in the 60s, Fiat sold the 600 (as in 600cc engine) micro car here, and it was fairly successful for a while. I think the time has come again (in this age of $2.00 gas) to look at these types of cars again.
Bob
Also, it would have to compete with hybrids for mileage.
They need some help, maybe HOV lane access or some other privilege besides mpg. Fuel efficiency doesn't even crack the top 10, even with gas prices so high.
-juice
Bob
Hugely positive press. I bet Outback sales would increase.
-juice
http://response.jp/issue/2004/1015/article64628_1.images/74223.jp- - - g
http://response.jp/issue/2004/1015/article64628_1.images/74222.jp- - - g
http://response.jp/issue/2004/1015/article64628_1.images/74221.jp- - - g
http://response.jp/issue/2004/1017/article64665_1.images/74328.jp- - - g
http://response.jp/issue/2004/1017/article64665_1.images/74324.jp- - - g
http://response.jp/issue/2004/1017/article64665_1.images/74325.jp- - - g
http://response.jp/issue/2004/1017/article64665_1.images/74326.jp- - - g
Check out the interior, specifically the last 2 images, and note the following:
• What is that do-hicky knob attached to the steering wheel? It looks like there is some sort of yellow switch that is part of it?
• The last image shows three levers. One is the gear shift. The emergency brake is between the seats. What is the third lever with a dog-leg sprouting from the floor near the gear shift?
Ken, the next time you're in Japan, you've got to check this R1 out, and fill us in on the details.
Bob
You got it.
Ken
Bob
R2i
SOHC, 46PS @ 6000, 5-speed or i-CVT
R2R
DOHC 16v AVCS, 54PS @ 6400, 5-speed or i-CVT
R2S
DOHC 16v supercharged, 64PS @ 4400, i-CVT SportShift
All have 658cc engines. All are available in FWD or AWD.
________________________
I think the precedent set here with the R2 will be the pattern used on all future Subies. So, if we use "B5" as an example, I expect to see a B5i (base), B5S (mid-level) and B5S or B5T (turbo). I think the last letter being "X" will be used exclusively for crossovers, which may include Outbacks. Outbacks could use the letter "V" for versatility?
Another thought: Volvo uses a lowercase "t" for their low-boost turbos, and an uppercase "T" for their high-boost turbos. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Subaru does the same. So for example, the low-boost Forester 2.5XT could be renamed the B3t, whereas the high-boost Impreza WRX could be renamed B5T; same with the (high-boost) Legacy 2.5GT, it could become the B7T.
I suspect STi models will just add "STi" to the end of the name. So, the Impreza WRX STi would become the B5T-STi
________________________
So with this in mind, I expect the base B9X to be called the B9Xi. Not sure what Subaru might letter Subaru might use for mid-level/high-end B9Xs, but it would fall into this pattern I would think.
Bob
TWRX now a Legacy owner "Ag Ltd."
FWIW, our 05 feels like its loosening up. Of course it could just be in my head, lol, but after 4000 miles and the first oil change, acceleration seems stronger.
Happy and safe motoring to all,
Joe
-Dave [ducks and run]
You might even stumble across a hologram of Patti repeating: "Save us Kyoji; you're our only hope..."
Eric
I used to valet park back in college, and once a Porsche 944 drove up that was equipped that way. Took a minute to adjust to driving it but I managed to park it.
Dave: R2 diesel twin-turbo would indeed be an R2D2.
-juice
Apparently in German "Reihe" = "linear", that would explain the "R". In some car magazines "R4" is used to describe a linear 4-cylinder engine, also R5 and R6 are used (linear 5- and 6-cylinder engines). "Linear" is used as in meaning "inline" engines.
I'm assuming that "Boxer" mean horizontally opposed in German, or something like that.
We know that Subaru loves to use English and German expressions (and German number plates ...)
Bob
However, the R1 and R2 are probably a better fit for Europe anyway. If so, then they understand the name.
-juice
http://www.salon-auto.com/Main.asp?s=0&p=3
Okay, this is interesting: Is the RS SE a late intro '05 model? Or is it an '06 model—which is supposed to get a facelift?
Bob
I dunno, wouldn't they wait for a bigger show?
My guess is we'll see a sketch, like they did for the B9X in Florida. A teaser.
-juice
I think JDM will get it sooner, in 05 as an 06 model.
That's just going on memory of what I have read, I could be wrong.
Craig
If they do decide to build a new lifestyle pickup off the B9X platform, they could easily name it B9U, B9V, B10X or something else along those lines.
Bob
http://www.woocha.com/photos/users/jmillward/photos/sti_comments.- - jpg
Ken, anything else there that's worth noting?
Bob
That's doubtful, though. They'll go with one look or the other, not both.
-juice
Bob
Craig
"Based on this symmetrical AWD system, Subaru will aim to enhance its environmental performance as it strides ahead into the future while retaining its unique Subaru driving performance, and it is taking the advanced step of developing a horizontally-opposed diesel engine and researching new hybrid systems. "
http://www.fhi.co.jp/fina/english/report/pdf/ar/04_04.pdf
Looks good Subaru! Don't tarry too long!
Eric
Maybe when low-sulfur diesel becomes commonplace, probably 2007 or so.
-juice
At least the're going to build it. That's a step in my direction.
Eric
Not to mention they own several patents for Direct Injection, something I'd like to see spill over (pardon the pun) to Subaru's gas engines.
GM paid all that cash for Isuzu, now put it to good use!
-juice
http://www.subaru.co.jp/index.html
Is this an indication that Subaru is getting cold feet about this new grille design?
This really caught me by surprise, for sure...
Bob
I'm not one to put a lot of emphasis on looks when I buy a car, but that new front grill is ugly enough to turn me away from future Subarus.
That R2 Custom is much better, although perhaps a little too Toyota-like.
Sly
http://www.subaru.co.jp/r2/special_custom/wp/subarur2custom_wp2s.- - jpg
Cute, yes. Distinctive, no. I don't see this as a path for Subaru to follow if the brand is going up market, in which all the players have frontend styling that's instantly recognizable.
This may be nothing more than Subaru Japan offering a unique model for their market. Remember, Subaru is famous for offering different grille options in the past for the JDM. This may be nothing more than that.
Bob
It muddies the water, and suggests Subaru may not be all that confident about what they are doing, and that is a definite no-no in marketing—especially when you're trying to re-position the brand in the marketplace.
I do not think this was a good idea on Subaru's part.
Bob
It won't work for Subaru, and I disagree that what they are doing is ugly. Subaru is not a carmaker that caters to the masses. In addition they are moving up market, and every vehicle they will be competing against has a distinctive look.
The last thing in the world I would want Subaru to look like is a Toyota.
Bob
Subaru is about to spring this new look on the world with a "real" production vehicle (not a JDM micro car) that will likely be sold in a number of world markets in about 6 weeks, and now this new R2 with a Ford Focus face shows up, in turn casting doubt about this new design direction.
Seems like HUGE! a bonehead marketing move, if I ever saw one. I sometimes wonder what's going through the heads of those marketing Subaru products...
Bob
Craig
Bob
on all future subaru models gas and diesel.
Don't let that technology go down the drain if and when Isuzu kicks the bucket. Hopefully they won't but sales are slow to nil. They'll probably stay small as a part of GM for diesels and for the commercial truck market.
Eric
Thumbs down, majorly.
Looks like Subaru is giving itself a Plan B, but I agree it makes them look hesitant, not confident.
If anything, Plan B should be the Legacy's face, anyway.
-juice