Oh, don't get me wrong Bob, but I want the whole package, features, capability, and looks, I don't care how capable the B9X will be, based on those looks I wouldn't have it as a free gift.
Take much of the styling cues from a 2005 Legacy wagon. Toss in some Forester DNA. Throw in a few more cues to make it look a bit more upscale.
End result would be a nice German/Japanese hybrid that would take what was started with the 2005 Legacy and raise it up a couple of notches. A more sharply creased, handsome and distinctive Toureg/Forester/Legacy wagon look.
The beltline is too high, the price appears to be too high, the performance will be too low, and so will the sales.
Looks like the B9X picked up a little more than a 1/3 of the parts from GM corporate...
i don't know what this fuss is all about. am i the only one who likes the looks ?
for a sec. think of pilot, murano, this is any day better. of course, it will be minivanish, it seats seven.......tell me suvs that seat 7 that look better ?
I think they really botched the front end. For the record, I do like the concept of the airplane fuselage/wings grille. In many of the concept sketches, it looks great. But the execution on the Tribeca seen in those pictures is just plain terrible. The center section is too prominent and draws too much attention. The horizontal grille lines are cluttered and not consistent with the airplane concept.
If they had a cleaner looking implementation of the grille, like the concept sketches, I would like it a lot (something smaller with black mesh, for instance). But this current version is cluttered and ugly in my opinion.
The rest of the vehicle's styling is merely inoffensive. Some of the styling is good, but overall it's bland.
I hate to say it -- combined with the other rumored features, this looks like the next Baja/SVX. In which case, I won't feel sorry for Subaru -- they should have learned by now. It's too bad, as the 05 Leg/OB is a real gem with excellent styling.
As you know, for some inexplicable reason, Subarus ALWAYS look better in person than they do in photos. This seems to be part of Subie DNA. I can't explain it; it just is... I expect the B9 Tribeca to be the same way; way better looking in person, than in pixs.
Having said that, a few comments:
Overall shape
I like it. The body proportions are good, from what I can see. It's not chunky (like the Impreza), and it has some grace (like the Legacy). It's certainly as good, if not better than those it will go up against.
Profile
In a word, bland; but that's okay. I don't have problem with that. I am troubled by the Murano-like rear quarter window. Not because it looks like the Murano, but because it creates a blind spot. It looks good, but functions poorly.
Rear
From what I can see, this is perhaps the best—or at least the least offensive—view. I really like the the design of the rear. I think it's very well done.
Front
Okay, this is what's got everybody's shorts all wadded up. By and large, I like it. Is the center grille too strong? Perhaps, but not enough to get me really upset—and certainly not as upset as those here voicing their opinions. Mesh grille? Yeah, I too think that might have been a better choice; but again, it doesn't make me so angry as to go postal.
Features and content
I don't know enough to comment yet. Yeah, I'm concerned about only having a 3.0L engine in a 4000+ pound vehicle, carrying seven people. I'm not wild about the towing either, but that's about all I know at the moment. There's a whole lot of questions left unanswered at the moment.
Bottom line: I'm reserving final judgment until I actually see the car.
I just saw the photo of this new thing elsewhere and looked here to see what people were saying. Wow! When I read that the success of the Chrysler 300 had caused other car companies to change their design plans, I never thought that any company would simply stick a grille on an otherwise finished design. Simply imagine the thing without the grille and the related bulge in the hood. That must have been the original plan.
the high beltline. Subarus have been known, and I like them, for their expansive greenhouses. In a world of gunslit cars like the new Audis and expecially the 300C/Magnum, having a low cowl and plenty of glass to me was even more important.
the car side looks rx330, back bmw 5 sort of but nothing offensive which is all subaru has to do.
its that freaking mustache looking thing on the front. they could have made the statement in the front but on a much smaller scale. its the scale of that wing thingee that makes me shudder.
for once a part of a car looked better with all that duct tape masking in the spy shots.
FYI, loyalists: my wife who is very picky is dying to buy this. Who in general is not fan of other subaru looks
Funny you should mention that, as I too showed it to my wife, and she had no problems with the looks either. I also agree that this will be a bigger pill for Subie loyalists to swallow than those who are not, and who are just crossover shoppers.
I've been a Subaru fan for a long time, and while none of their designs have got me really excited styling-wise, none have ever repulsed me until this one. Saab was able to make the WRX a little less homely, so let's hope (for those who like the concept/engineering of the vehicle) that they can do something with this benignXtrifecta thing.
If it had come out looking like the Chevy S3X (ya I know, the name sucks) concept, it might have had a chance.
there you go, the conservative sub loyalists need to change !!!!
It is funny, the loyalists wanted Subaru to change & follow trends with other companies. Subaru has done that.......But the loyalists are reluctant to change !
Hey, I don't mind change, if it's change for the better. I'm all for Subaru putting a little design flair into their otherwise excellent cars.
But that nose is just a design disaster.
The sad thing is, when the Aztek concept was introduced (to almost universal "rasberrys"), it was just that, a concept (although Pontiac/GM ignored the rasberrys and produced it anyway). This "tumour" is only months away from being unleashed on the public......let's hope Saab can give it an "extreme makeover".
I always thought my Forester was kind of homely, but I could respect it because it was functional, and from inside the car I love all of the glass and visibility. I also love the fact that it is a relatively small vehicle that can be used to haul a small appliance.
What is particularly distressing is now Subaru has unveiled a car with an egg like shape that is bound to reduce its utility and visibility, and then just to be different they grafted on the automotive equivalent of a Groucho Marx nose and glasses. Here is my personal hierarchy.
1. Best - Attractive and functional
2. Ok - Bland or homely but still functional.
3. Still Ok - Pretty but at the expense of utility and functionality.
4. Worst - Making a car ugly at the expense of functionality.
The Aztec, unlike the Tribeca, has an ungainly body shape. Combine that with terrible surface decoration, plus the fact that there is no angle from which the vehicle looks good, and you truly have a visual nightmare. The Tribeca no way falls into that class.
The Edsel, unlike the Tribeca, was sprung upon a totally unsuspecting public. There were no prior concept vehicles shown to the public, to condition them for the actual car. The Edsel, if nothing else, proved the value of concept cars in order to gauge public reaction.
Everyone needs to hang on to your current Subarus. Thirty years from now, after Fuji Heavy Industries has been bankrupt and new Subarus have been long gone from our shores, collectors will clamor for the 2005 and older "pre-shnoz" models, which were known as reliable, good performing and reasonably priced cars.
I think I will quit putting money in my 401k and use my Forester as my retirement plan.
i predict the opposite. this will get a lot of new customers.
I do too. Granted, it's much easier to sell to existing customers, but I'm betting Subaru is banking on attracting a lot of new people; those who have never owned a Subaru before.
i predict the opposite. this will get a lot of new customers. let us wait & see.
I don't think so. Check out Carmart in a year and we'll see how many are there.
I wonder why no one calls new audi face ugly !
Lots of folks are but all Audi did was extend the existing grille to under the bumper line and did it to all their models. Subaru added a completely new look.
I wonder if Subaru didn't apply this look to the new Legacy out of fear. Implementing a dramatic new look onto the volume leader may have been a scary idea. Putting it on a new model that wasn't going to sell in volume anyway might be part of a plan to see if the look would be accepted. It doesn't make any sense to me to try and put a new corporate look into the market less than a year after introducing a brand new volume leader.
Also didn't change the functionality of their vehicles with their redesigns. In fact, with BMW, they added trunk space with the Bengalized designs.
The B9 appears to have seriously reduced rear visibility (look at those tiny c pillar and liftgate windows). A Subaru wagon with poor visibility...who would have thought?
I love the new Legacy-- was very close to buying one. Hate the autoclimate control and stereo in general, but I think it's a very handsome car.
All new BMWs are heinous. The Z4 is perhaps the least ugly, but it's no swan.
The new look of Audi is fairly appealing to me other than the fact that VW has already aped it.
The Chrysler 300 is very comely. I'd definitely buy one if I had a need for a full-size four door that looked and acted the part, plus is a great value.
and then just to be different they grafted on the automotive equivalent of a Groucho Marx nose and glasses
I like that description best of all!!
Subaru, if you are listening, ditch the horizontal chrome lines in the fuselage section of the grille, make the fuselage section less prominent, and give us the look displayed in the concept sketches!!
The new Audi and Bangle-ized BMWs are quite unattractive. I would say the rear ends of the BMW's are worse than the front though.
This is just ugly. Aztec ugly. Some people liked the Aztec too. There is actually a small demographic that prefers Aztecs. This doesn't mean that they're not ugly. And it still flopped.
Let's face it, in this country, most people will buy a car based on looks before most other qualities. We all are not the typical american car buyers.
This will not be a popular car. No power, no looks, I doubt it will have the refinement of a Lexus. Only Subaru loyalists will be likely to buy one. That's not enough.
Hey, I want Subaru to do well as much as the rest of you, which is why the strong reaction. There may still be time to make changes!
no one i know thinks the new audi nose is nice. they all hate it. congrats subaru you have now joined the ranks of being compared to an aztek and edsel.
should rename it to the B17 for the bomb that is about to happen.
What I meant by "not an Edsel" was the word Edsel has become synonymous with failure, especially as applied to automobiles. I don't think the B9 will be a failure. Disagree if you like.
The Edsel was more expensive than other comparable cars, and the price of the loaded, top-of-the-line models that were first on the showroom floor scared many buyers. There was no owner loyalty to count on. And, finally, it had a funny name.
Substitute TriAzteca for Edsel?
DaveM
P.S. I'll reserve my comments until I see and read about "the real thing".
Even though it's been only a small sample size here, the overall negative reaction to the B9X styling isn't very promising. That's also taking into account that the majority of people responding so far are Subaru fans. I think the overall market reaction to the styling will echo the sentiment here.
I believe the styling will hurt B9X sales more than help it. A good number of people who buy crossover SUVs do so for image. They don't need an "SUV" for what they do with it but don't want a minivan or wagon because they don't like the image. Looks are going to be important in this market space, especially for a late entrant like Subaru.
While I can understand a small car company like Subaru trying to distinguish itself visually, I sometimes believe they try a little too hard. If I were CEO of the company, I would err on the bland side of styling and keep the focus on the safety and performance that have been the hallmark of this brand.
I understood what you meant, that it would not be a spectacular failure. I just find amazing the resemblance of the front ends of these two vehicles. It looks like someone just updated and aerodynamically re-engineered the old design. Actually, the Edsel's radical styling was thought by some to be the reason for lack of success and you can see at the linked site the evolution of the design between model years in an apparent attempt to save it.
I have no real feelings about the B9 because it is not a vehicle that I would be interested in, given that there are almost never more than two people in my vehicle and the high price. But there is one thing that is bothering me about the trend in Subaru automobiles. I bought my Forester after owning 4 Saabs. Saab decided to become a luxury car company and I am not a luxury car buyer. If Subaru does the same, I will not be a Subaru buyer. Given that Subarus are literally becoming Saabs, it does not look good for the future.
Comments
Cheers Pat.
But if what we've heard so far is true, that car won't win me over based on features, power or value either.
Sly
Bob
End result would be a nice German/Japanese hybrid that would take what was started with the 2005 Legacy and raise it up a couple of notches. A more sharply creased, handsome and distinctive Toureg/Forester/Legacy wagon look.
The beltline is too high, the price appears to be too high, the performance will be too low, and so will the sales.
Looks like the B9X picked up a little more than a 1/3 of the parts from GM corporate...
-B
for a sec. think of pilot, murano, this is any day better. of course, it will be minivanish, it seats seven.......tell me suvs that seat 7 that look better ?
mdx, pilot - boxy
x90 - that's what i call ugly
x5 - frankly, iam not impressed
rx, murano, x5, mclass are all 5-seaters.
anything else i am missing here ?
Hang in there, you're not alone.
Bob
I can see people not liking it, but being disgusted, that,s a bit over board.
I think it looks awesome!! They'll sell millions.....
Bob
Bob
If they had a cleaner looking implementation of the grille, like the concept sketches, I would like it a lot (something smaller with black mesh, for instance). But this current version is cluttered and ugly in my opinion.
The rest of the vehicle's styling is merely inoffensive. Some of the styling is good, but overall it's bland.
I hate to say it -- combined with the other rumored features, this looks like the next Baja/SVX. In which case, I won't feel sorry for Subaru -- they should have learned by now. It's too bad, as the 05 Leg/OB is a real gem with excellent styling.
Craig
Having said that, a few comments:
Overall shape
I like it. The body proportions are good, from what I can see. It's not chunky (like the Impreza), and it has some grace (like the Legacy). It's certainly as good, if not better than those it will go up against.
Profile
In a word, bland; but that's okay. I don't have problem with that. I am troubled by the Murano-like rear quarter window. Not because it looks like the Murano, but because it creates a blind spot. It looks good, but functions poorly.
Rear
From what I can see, this is perhaps the best—or at least the least offensive—view. I really like the the design of the rear. I think it's very well done.
Front
Okay, this is what's got everybody's shorts all wadded up. By and large, I like it. Is the center grille too strong? Perhaps, but not enough to get me really upset—and certainly not as upset as those here voicing their opinions. Mesh grille? Yeah, I too think that might have been a better choice; but again, it doesn't make me so angry as to go postal.
Features and content
I don't know enough to comment yet. Yeah, I'm concerned about only having a 3.0L engine in a 4000+ pound vehicle, carrying seven people. I'm not wild about the towing either, but that's about all I know at the moment. There's a whole lot of questions left unanswered at the moment.
Bottom line: I'm reserving final judgment until I actually see the car.
Bob
-B
PS The Pathfinder looks better and will probably be much cheaper.
There are a lot that look better. Heck, even some minivans look better! And sportier!
True, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but this Subie has a face only a mother could love! ;-)
Let's look at it this way, if only 20% of us like the looks, I would say the general public will not be as accepting. Not a good beginning.
tom
-B
I predict this is the 1st subaru - loyalists won;t like as much. it will bring a lot of new customers to subaru brand.
FYI, loyalists: my wife who is very picky is dying to buy this. Who in general is not fan of other subaru looks
its that freaking mustache looking thing on the front. they could have made the statement in the front but on a much smaller scale. its the scale of that wing thingee that makes me shudder.
for once a part of a car looked better with all that duct tape masking in the spy shots.
Funny you should mention that, as I too showed it to my wife, and she had no problems with the looks either. I also agree that this will be a bigger pill for Subie loyalists to swallow than those who are not, and who are just crossover shoppers.
Bob
If it had come out looking like the Chevy S3X (ya I know, the name sucks) concept, it might have had a chance.
It is funny, the loyalists wanted Subaru to change & follow trends with other companies. Subaru has done that.......But the loyalists are reluctant to change !
IMHO, the problem is with headlight design. They seem too big and go into the hood/fender too much.
But that nose is just a design disaster.
The sad thing is, when the Aztek concept was introduced (to almost universal "rasberrys"), it was just that, a concept (although Pontiac/GM ignored the rasberrys and produced it anyway). This "tumour" is only months away from being unleashed on the public......let's hope Saab can give it an "extreme makeover".
What is particularly distressing is now Subaru has unveiled a car with an egg like shape that is bound to reduce its utility and visibility, and then just to be different they grafted on the automotive equivalent of a Groucho Marx nose and glasses. Here is my personal hierarchy.
1. Best - Attractive and functional
2. Ok - Bland or homely but still functional.
3. Still Ok - Pretty but at the expense of utility and functionality.
4. Worst - Making a car ugly at the expense of functionality.
Oh Subaru, what are you thinking?
what about at Nabisco ?
The Aztec, unlike the Tribeca, has an ungainly body shape. Combine that with terrible surface decoration, plus the fact that there is no angle from which the vehicle looks good, and you truly have a visual nightmare. The Tribeca no way falls into that class.
The Edsel, unlike the Tribeca, was sprung upon a totally unsuspecting public. There were no prior concept vehicles shown to the public, to condition them for the actual car. The Edsel, if nothing else, proved the value of concept cars in order to gauge public reaction.
Bob
I think I will quit putting money in my 401k and use my Forester as my retirement plan.
(Said with tongue somewhat firmly in cheek).
I wonder why no one calls new audi face ugly !
I do too. Granted, it's much easier to sell to existing customers, but I'm betting Subaru is banking on attracting a lot of new people; those who have never owned a Subaru before.
Bob
I don't think so. Check out Carmart in a year and we'll see how many are there.
I wonder why no one calls new audi face ugly !
Lots of folks are but all Audi did was extend the existing grille to under the bumper line and did it to all their models. Subaru added a completely new look.
I wonder if Subaru didn't apply this look to the new Legacy out of fear. Implementing a dramatic new look onto the volume leader may have been a scary idea. Putting it on a new model that wasn't going to sell in volume anyway might be part of a plan to see if the look would be accepted. It doesn't make any sense to me to try and put a new corporate look into the market less than a year after introducing a brand new volume leader.
The folks who like the B9 looks, what do you think of the new Legacy design?
-B
The B9 appears to have seriously reduced rear visibility (look at those tiny c pillar and liftgate windows). A Subaru wagon with poor visibility...who would have thought?
-B
All new BMWs are heinous. The Z4 is perhaps the least ugly, but it's no swan.
The new look of Audi is fairly appealing to me other than the fact that VW has already aped it.
The Chrysler 300 is very comely. I'd definitely buy one if I had a need for a full-size four door that looked and acted the part, plus is a great value.
~Colin
I like that description best of all!!
Subaru, if you are listening, ditch the horizontal chrome lines in the fuselage section of the grille, make the fuselage section less prominent, and give us the look displayed in the concept sketches!!
Craig
This is just ugly. Aztec ugly. Some people liked the Aztec too. There is actually a small demographic that prefers Aztecs. This doesn't mean that they're not ugly. And it still flopped.
Let's face it, in this country, most people will buy a car based on looks before most other qualities. We all are not the typical american car buyers.
This will not be a popular car. No power, no looks, I doubt it will have the refinement of a Lexus. Only Subaru loyalists will be likely to buy one. That's not enough.
Hey, I want Subaru to do well as much as the rest of you, which is why the strong reaction. There may still be time to make changes!
tom
no one i know thinks the new audi nose is nice. they all hate it. congrats subaru you have now joined the ranks of being compared to an aztek and edsel.
should rename it to the B17 for the bomb that is about to happen.
yup subaru has a 4 on their hands
so we should see new banners at subaru dealers stating 'Welcome Aztek Fans'?
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2005/0501_subaru_b9- - _tribeca/
Then:
http://www.edsel.com/pages/edsel58.htm
Pay partiuclar attention to the grille and lights on the '58 model. Retro? Refresh?
Whoops! Photo is even better:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101493
Bob
My bet is this will be a huge success in bringing newer crowd under the umbrella
Substitute TriAzteca for Edsel?
DaveM
P.S. I'll reserve my comments until I see and read about "the real thing".
Bob
I believe the styling will hurt B9X sales more than help it. A good number of people who buy crossover SUVs do so for image. They don't need an "SUV" for what they do with it but don't want a minivan or wagon because they don't like the image. Looks are going to be important in this market space, especially for a late entrant like Subaru.
While I can understand a small car company like Subaru trying to distinguish itself visually, I sometimes believe they try a little too hard. If I were CEO of the company, I would err on the bland side of styling and keep the focus on the safety and performance that have been the hallmark of this brand.
Ken
but i am surprised that even in autoweek.com forum, people were lot harsher than the onese here about the looks.
I always found impreza looks ugly. But i love the b9x. Some here find the other way around.
I understood what you meant, that it would not be a spectacular failure. I just find amazing the resemblance of the front ends of these two vehicles. It looks like someone just updated and aerodynamically re-engineered the old design. Actually, the Edsel's radical styling was thought by some to be the reason for lack of success and you can see at the linked site the evolution of the design between model years in an apparent attempt to save it.
I have no real feelings about the B9 because it is not a vehicle that I would be interested in, given that there are almost never more than two people in my vehicle and the high price. But there is one thing that is bothering me about the trend in Subaru automobiles. I bought my Forester after owning 4 Saabs. Saab decided to become a luxury car company and I am not a luxury car buyer. If Subaru does the same, I will not be a Subaru buyer. Given that Subarus are literally becoming Saabs, it does not look good for the future.