Subaru Crew - Future Models II

paisan · January 2005

Why not wait and judge it when you can actually drive it? And when we know the final pricing?

No point in jumping to conclusions.

-mike

njswamplands · January 2005

'No point in jumping to conclusions'

specs mean nothing?

btw my 27k honda odyssey EX rocks. only thing really missing is awd. it seats 7 very comfy. gets good mileage ( kills my fxt ) and its look at not awful. it drives much better than most minivans ( not sedan like but my god look at its size ).

sweet_subie · January 2005

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/05xc70.htm

is this Four-C any good, techies ?

sweet_subie · January 2005

http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/business/story/1964825p-9977221c.htm- l

also, see that he is the one who brought Subies to US in 1960s

paisan · January 2005

Specs and bench-racing/bench-talk do me no good. I'm the type wo is a doer, a get out and test it, get out and drive it person, so all the spec sheets in the world are meaningless to me until I can physically test it myself. Just my opinion.

-mike

ateixeira · January 2005

No way, vans are much boxier, you wouldn't see those shoulders and the tapered rear window. I don't see any vanness in it at all.

It looks tall enough not to be called a wagon, also.

How does it beat a Pilot? On paper, it doesn't. Nor does an X5, or a Cayenne V6, for that matter.

But Pilot leaves room for improvement - no moonroof, too much road noise, stiff ride, so-so handling.

Ody is great but price one today and it costs more than a Pilot does. EXs are in the $30s and that's with FWD.

You have to understand that until you drive it, you may not get it.

On paper, a Nissan 350Z is worse than an Altima. Less traction and less space for more money? But then drive them. The Z is a better value!

Performance is expensive, very much so. So I'll judge the B9 after a drive.

-juice

sweet_subie · January 2005

"Subaru insiders have commented about the vehicle's very versatile and highly flexible interior, and it's believed that the second and third rows of seats will fold flat to accommodate cargo, as well as flexible seating configurations. More accurately, insiders have been referring to this as a 5+2 passenger configuration."

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7871

sweet_subie · January 2005

http://automobilemag.com/columns/0501_mercedes_benz_and_subaru/in- dex.html

sweet_subie · January 2005

middle seats move back & forth

better center of gravity than X5

both middle & 3rd row fold flat

DVD & Nav

VDC

http://automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2005/0501_subaru_b9_tri- beca/

rob_m · January 2005

I love the related article about the 3.0R Spec B. If available, I would certainly be more inclined to buy this over the 2.5t GT. Too bad it seems like it will not be available in the US in the near future. Not having an auto would be a big issue to me. Although I would have no problems with the 6 speed, my dear wife is not a fan of any car with more than 2 pedals on the floor. Rob M.

rsholland · January 2005

Rob, wherever the Spec B is now sold, so is the 5EAT version. I would assume that to be true here too, if it shows up.

Bob

ateixeira · January 2005

Cool, I don't even read Automobile (maybe I should?)

-juice

robr2 · January 2005

Cool, I don't even read Automobile (maybe I should?)

Yes you should - IMHO the writing is more interesting as is the overall package. Best of all - no annoying Brock Yates article to skip over every month!!

ateixeira · January 2005

I met him at NAIAS last year. Interesting fellow, to say the least!

-juice

robr2 · January 2005

Interesting in a good or bad way??

ateixeira · January 2005

He was funny. I told him that I thought I'd met someone famous at NAIAS, and he said "If I see someone famous, I'll let you know".

I think he writes his columns to be intentionally controversial, though. Loosh nailed it when he called C&D "Nutcase Militia Monthly".

-juice

robr2 · January 2005

I think he writes his columns to be intentionally controversial, though.

That is true but someone pointed out in a letter to the editor some time back how Yates writes like he's Mr. Average USA but not many Mr. Average USA's wear Prada loafers and Breitling watches while polishing their concours quality Bentleys on the grounds at Pebble Beach.

What bothers me are the incessant references to the Cannonball Run (yeah yeah yeah we know it was your baby) and constant pitches of his books in just about every other commentary.

ateixeira · January 2005

Eh, I skim over them. Skip them if they sound too inflammatory (which is often).

-juice

sduford · January 2005

I was at my dealer today to get my windshield changed and the service manager told me about the following engines coming out in the next 1-2 years:

a 280 HP version of the 2.5L Turbo for the Legacy/Outback

a 310 HP version of the NA H6 for the Outback and the B9 (second year)

a 365 HP version of the 2.5L Turbo for the STi.

Of course, can't verify any of that...

sweet_subie · January 2005

I will not be surprised if we see it in Tribeca this year itself.

Remember, last year, it was all full of surprises.

tsy · January 2005

Is that a Legacy STi? Or the Impreza STi?

2 years ought to be perfect timing to get a new legacy. . .

Or I might to some mods to my engine and get there sooner!

tom

sduford · January 2005

I asked him that very same question, and he said he wasn't aware of any plans to bring a Legacy STi to North America.

He also mentioned that we should be getting the Outback Sedan here in Canada.

As for the H6, he actually said it would be in the 305-310 HP range. I'm gonna to upgrade my OBXT, it would be great to have that kind of power and none of the turbo drawbacks, especially if it has a lot of low-end grunt.

Sly

rsholland · January 2005

I'm not all that surprised. Subaru has been playing catch-up with the competition for a long time. This appears to be a step towards moving to the front of the pack, which they need to do if they are to be considered a premium brand.

Bob

c_hunter · January 2005

While I will always welcome more power (especially if it doesn't hurt gas mileage) we should remember that dealership personell are generally the worst sources of information!! Most of these guys don't know the specs of the current cars, much less future ones! SO I would take it with a huge grain of salt.

Craig

saedave · January 2005

310 HP for the NA H6 3.0 means more than 100 HP/liter.....not terribly likely. But the displacement might increase. I believe the SVX had significantly larger displacement but hope access for service is not compromised on any new model. I remember my dealer's service department complaints in working on the SVXs.

With the fuel economy of the 2005 H6 barely adequate, any power increase without improved efficiency seems imprudent.

dcm61 · January 2005

I believe the SVX had significantly larger displacement

SVX is 3.3 L

230 HP / 228 ft-lbs.

17 / 25 MPG

DaveM

rsholland · January 2005

The Sky and Aura are just two of the new products on tap for Saturn. A crossover utility vehicle, is reportedly being developed with the assistance of GMs Japanese affiliate, Subaru.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7925&sid=17- 5&n=156

Bob

kens · January 2005

Hmmm. I'll take those with a grain of salt given that it's coming from the service manager. The 280HP on the 2.5 turbo sounds very do-able given that Cobb's AP already achieves those numbers.

Ken

sweet_subie · January 2005

wow ! that'll be cool.

Also, usually service managers don't lie unlike car salesmen.

Bottomline is, they'll do something dramatic in order to become premium. I won't be surprised if we see them boost performance image !

dcm61 · January 2005

This appears to be a step towards moving to the front of the pack, which they need to do if they are to be considered a premium brand.

IIRC, one of the big guys at SOA or FHI kinda danced around the definition of "premium".

Maybe the "premium" they're going after is performance, not luxury. :-)

DaveM

sweet_subie · January 2005

from subaru to GM, i have no issues. Not the other way around......like Izuzu or saab trailblazer suv.

this will give subaru more revenues, more strength.

rangner · January 2005

I'm not so sure about that. The Honda S2000 has a 2.2 liter 4 banger that makes 240hp. That equals 109 hp/ liter. Granted it is engineered to rev up to 8 grand. But if subaru can get it right, I believe 305-310hp from the NA H-6 is do-able.

Although I think a better low-end response off the line should be more of a focus for H-6 Outbacks for instance instead of high end performance. Maybe for Legacy Spec-B.

Eric

cdnp5 · January 2005

I think all of those engines would be great but I'm still looking for that in between model. How about something between 190-220hp for the Legacy/Outback with better or equal to the n/a engine for mileage? I think its been mentioned here before that many people would buy that.

sweet_subie · January 2005

big day folks. we will see Tribeca specs today.

I have a feeling we will see a 280HP/300HP H6 today. remember the SoA chief mentioned this would compete with X5 ?

jon_in_ct · January 2005

Remember that Subaru's current H6, the EZ30R, already outshines the I-6 engine found in the base X5 for max hp and torque.

njswamplands · January 2005

bug day? vw news?

sweet_subie · January 2005

SoA is showing the live webcast today of the Tribeca unveiling.

go to media.subaru.com for details.

sweet_subie · January 2005

ateixeira · January 2005

The engine that needs a boost is the base engine, not the ones mentioned above. The gap is too big, they go from 165hp all the way up to 250hp with nothing inbetween.

Also, in terms of fuel economy, you have a big drop of about 4mpg, another too-wide gap.

I'd rather see something in the 180-200hp range that is also efficient.

Plus, will 3l be the biggest displacement Subaru offers? I kinda doubt it. Especially given the Tribeca is so much wider.

-juice

sweet_subie · January 2005

WOW ! is all i can say

AWD

250hp

VDC

Nav

2nd row 3-seater

classy cockpit

MP3 player

Front defrost like rear

sliding 2nd row seat

DVD system

locke2c · January 2005

quote:Remember that Subaru's current H6, the EZ30R, already outshines the I-6 engine found in the base X5 for max hp and torque.

no way. have you driven both? I have. the 3.0L inline six absolutely destroys the EZ30, paper numbers be damned.

and this is even taking into account the X5's substantial weight disadvantage...

~Colin

ateixeira · January 2005

In terms of cost Subaru's 3.0l ought to be compared to BMW's 2.5l, and then it shines.

BMW will actually have two versions of the 3.0l soon, the lesser one will make 210hp IIRC and that's what Subaru will be competing with eventually.

-juice

ateixeira · January 2005

Check out the B9 topic, some pics are out now.

-juice

sduford · January 2005

Interior looks good, but it looks like the footwell is very cramped!

sweet_subie · January 2005

WOW ! is all i can say

AWD

250hp

VDC

Nav

2nd row 3-seater

classy cockpit

MP3 player

Front defrost like rear

sliding 2nd row seat

DVD system

ateixeira · January 2005

Nine inch DVD player, too. Most are 7", so it's a lot bigger than average.

Looks like 3 individual seats in that one pic, but then the press material says 60/40 split?

Love that interior, in fact I'll have to paraphrase Lucien and says it's "too nice". My kids are gonna trash that.

-juice

kens · January 2005

I wonder if the NAV system is what they'll use in the Legacy/OB next MY.

Ken

tsy · January 2005

Well, after seeing more pics I'm sure it's not the most attractive SUV i've ever seen by a long shot. The interior is nice.

So is that like, it's not pretty but has a good personality inside? ;-)

Hmm, a bit underpowered for such a heavy car too.

Hope they got the gearing right on the tranny.

At least it's got all the goodies the Legacy/OB should have come with, 18" wheels, Nav, VDC, mp3. No HIDs though.

Change the front end a little, give it some more power, and change the name and Subaru might have a winner. But I just don't see people flocking to buy an ugly car. Especially an expensive one.

tom

ateixeira · January 2005

Touareg starts at $37,140 and it's smaller.

OK, no air suspension, but still.

-juice

c_hunter · January 2005

In order of importance:

1) how it drives

2) what it looks like in person

3) how much it costs

#1 and #2 will govern how much I like it, and #3 will determine if it's worth buying after #1 and #2 criterion are satisfied.

I think Subaru has an uphill battle on #2, though I really like the rear 3/4 view myself and the nose is not as offensive as I first thought.

Given what I have right now with my Outback XT and waht I see as benefits in the B9, $35-36K MSRP is about what I would feel comfortable with. The real issue is performance -- being used to the 250HP/250ft-lb turbo motor in a lighter vehicle, the B9 is going to feel like a slug to me. It probably would accelerate similar to my previous LL Bean Outback.

Would love to see official MPG numbers too....

Craig

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