Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Looks like FHI is asking Toyota to build minicars for it in Europe. Rebadged Yaris? Or will Toyota build R1 or R2 at its factories?
    http://www.just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=50111
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well so much for "DNA". ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Registration required...how reliable is that site?

    Any how, given they were selling redaged Suzukis as Justys in Europe, this can't be any worse.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    The original report was from Japan's Kyodo News Agency. Kyodo requires registration, too, however.
    I also found an odd story - in Japan, Subaru's releasing a health & beauty R2 Refi that emits vitamin C through the air conditioner, apparently releases amino acids through the seat fabric (?), and has special filtering glass.
    Here's the Subaru of Japan link... once there, click on the gray bars across the bottom of the page to see these features.
    http://www.subaru.co.jp/r2/refi/concept/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Vitamin C....that's whacky enough to be straight out of a Tokyo concept. :D

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Now if they would only put those features in some other models... "I think I'm starting to get a cold - I'd better take the GT for a spin."
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    OB sedan 2.5i ltd sedan in added now. see media.subaru.com
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, I bet they'll sell about 7 of them this year. ;)

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    the '06 Baja specs are finally up on media.subaru web page. As we knew, the only real change is the standard security package. I still think that Subaru could generate decent '07 sales with the current platform given the following changes:

    *put in the upgraded 173 hp engine and ETC
    *remove the moon roof and increase headroom by 2"
    *increase leg room by 1" in front (seat mod)
    *need the 5 speed auto tranny/VTD
    *increase mpg on N/A car by 2 mpg manual, 1 mgp auto

    Keep the sticker at about $23k.

    Would the above mods be better than a Beca based Baja that would have to come in at $28k+ ? It looks like that price level is hindering Ridgeline sales, and a Beca Baja would compete directly with the Ridgeline. OTH, there are plenty of Tacoma and Frontier sales that could be canabalized at the $23k level.

    I hate to see the Baja go away without a real attempt to improve it.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I too hate to see it go away. I wish Subaru would take another stab at it with either the new Outback as a base, or better still, using the Tribeca platform.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The writing is on the wall...the new Legacy platform is on its 2nd model year, and Baja didn't get the bump to the new one.

    It's like the VW Cabrio. You know they'll replace it with something very different.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Here's a Subaru R1e Q&A blog with responses from Dominick Infante of SOA:
    http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=12&blogid=112
    My favorite part is the last sentence by Infante: "Timing for the US market launch has not been determined." Hmm... to me that implies that he expects there to be a US market launch. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With gas at $3.39, it made sense. As gas creeps to just under $2 in some places, it would be a tough sell.

    I don't think it would cost much less than an Impreza 2.5i.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Even at $2/gallon, you'd save nearly $1200 bucks a year (15k mi/year, 26mpg)... $6000 over a five-year ownership. $3/gallon bumps that to over $1700/year... $8500+ over a five-year ownership. Either way, it seems like a substantial amount to me. Now if we only new how much the electricity would cost to run an R1e for a year, we could really compare.
    The other benefit would be that you're driving an emissions-free vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You would not save $1200, unless electricity at your house is free!

    Plus your range is very limited, which would be OK for someone like me who has a spare car.

    I'd only bite if you can drop the top. Plus this would have to be a very low priced vehicle, $10k ideally but $14k tops and that's loaded.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Emissions-free is a bit of a stretch.

    The emissions happen, they just happen remotely.

    So to be picky, but it is not zero emissions, it is remote emissions.

    Did you know that the Outback PZEV sold in California qualifies as a PZEV because it emits the equivalent of what an electric car would (remotely)?

    So an electric "ZEV" is not any cleaner than a PZEV Outback.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    All valid points. I agree it'd be useful for most buyers as a second car. As far as range, I thought they anticipated a range of 150 miles from the new battery technology being developed (along with quick recharge)... I can't find where I read that, though. It'd be much more useful with that type of range.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But in extreme cold, it would be less. Plus that's assuming the battery is in perfect condition.

    Still, for me it would be fine. My commute is 13 miles each way, so I need 26 miles of range, let's call it 60 so I could do 2 days and have a little left over to run an errand on my way home.

    -juice
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    If they price it around $15K and get it to US in 2 or 3 years, I would get one.

    I'm keeping my 98 Accord just to have a 2nd car around. Normally I commute on bus, but sometimes I need a car to do some errands when my wife is using the Outback. R1e would be terrific for that.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Very similar situation here, but without the bus. It'd be a secondary car to our Outback as well. Our second car is a '91 Legacy - running strong at 225k miles. :) At this point, we're driving the Legacy 'til it drops or 'til the Outback is paid off, whichever is sooner. R1e would be an ideal successor.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Those of you who have complained about the Tribeca's front styling may just get your wish.

    I just heard from someone who recently went to a Subaru focus group, and was presented with a couple of possible revised front ends for the Tribeca. This person felt that one of the front-end designs was just so-so, whereas the other looked really great.

    The one he liked looked, if I understand him correctly, like somewhat of a combination of the new Forester grille, with the soft "rounded" elements also found on Infiniti and the Murano.

    I believe this is a 1-piece grille, rather than the current 3-piece unit. Supposedly it has thick Forester/Inifiniti-like horizontal bars, with a chrome ribbon at the top with the logo in it.

    It will be very interesting to see how Subaru explains this about face, and to see if they just "threw in the towel," or if this is still just another evolutionary step of the original aircraft-inspired design concept.

    Not sure when (or if) this will take place. My guess is we'll see it on the '08 model, but that's just a guess.

    I have to honest with you, when I first saw the new Forester, I was wondering why they didn't incorporate the 3-piece grille like they did on the Impreza. Now I'm wondering if Subaru might be considering offering two different (but related) front ends? Mercedes does this. Their sedans have always had a more formal upright crosshatch patterned grille, whereas their trucks and sports cars have always featured the 3-point star as the main grille focal point.

    No word on whether this will also take place on the Subies. The Tribeca has been by far the most controversial looking, far more so than the current Impreza's rendition of that design theme. As they say: stay tuned...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This guy also mentioned something about a possible 7-passenger Forester in the works! I think he saw sketches or rough photos, but am not sure. It sounded like they were there to gauge reaction from the focus group.

    Makes sense, in light of the new 7-passenger RAV4.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Interesting.. How is the Tribeca selling?

    ~Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Interesting indeed. If it is true, it would be another model where Subaru tried a bit too hard to look unique and ended up going with something more mainstream.

    That would certainly pave the way towards my wife even considering a Tribeca in the future.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not as well as they had hoped, hence this move. At least it's showing that Subaru is listening to their customers.

    My concern is how will Subaru promote this change without them looking like idiots. They've got to come across as if they know what they're doing, and not as just a bunch of stumble-bums, just grasping for straws.

    Bob
  • tinycadontinycadon Member Posts: 287
    Think Subaru might increase the gas tank to a more useful 20+ gallons on the Tribeca?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I have no idea. That sort of stuff they rarely announce, as it really doesn't have a whole lot of marketing sex appeal.

    Bob
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    What is also interesting is that Subaru stuck that ugly nose on the Tribeca without any kind of marketing campaign to explain what they were doing. In fact, six months after the introduction of this important product I have seen exactly one commercial running for the Tribeca.

    In the mean time, Saab has jumped all over the airplane thing. Now if Subaru tries to build a marketing campaign around airplanes and that ugly nose, they will just look like they are copying Saab.

    I hope they do just throw in the towel on the new nose. I thought that Subarus already had distinctive and identifiable designs, especially on the Outbacks, which I personally think are very attractive.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They don't have an identifiabe "face," and that's what Subaru is looking for. You take the Legacy, and you could swap the logo in the grille for Kia logo, Chevy logo, or any number of other cars, and it could be sold in any number of different showrooms.

    There's nothing wrong with the airplane "concept," it's the "execution" that needs work.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I think you might be suprised at the direction the corporate face takes.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've been around too long for anything to totally surprise me, but you could be right. :)

    Bob
  • dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    A seven passenger Forester? How big do they intend to make it? I feel abusive even stuffing five in the current model.

    Forget it, Subaru. Leave the seven passenger seating to Tribeca (which itself isn't even all that adequate).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Remember something, we read Zap only joined Subaru after some of the hard points on the Tribeca were already established. So it was not his design from the ground-up. That could explain part of it.

    As for the Forester, I'd like to see it happen. I've been asking for a Grand Forester since 1998.

    Would it overlap with the Tribeca? Not so much.

    Keep it utilitarian, it won't cost as much nor would it be as nice inside. The RAV4 certainly has my attention, so I'd love to see Subaru's response, and I can't afford a Tribeca, not now anyway.

    I hope that unlike Toyota Subaru would offer both sizes, regular and long wheelbase. I have a feeling they'll have to make it taller to accomodate a 3rd row. Package it like the Mazda5, small on the outside, big on the inside. I think they'll have to ditch the rear strut suspension for better packaging, which would be yet another bonus.

    Forester + 10" wheelbase stretch + 3" height increase + compact multi-link rear suspension = a lot more sales than the Tribeca could accomplish.

    -juice
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    But just keep the Forester boxy to maximize cargo / passenger space, raise it a little bit more, trim the overhangs, add stability control and curtain bags, and that would be all the SUV I would ever need.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd be all over it.

    It's funny, right now I'd want another Forester, but I'll admit we could use a 3rd row for the occasional time when we car-pool and take other kids home from pre-school.

    I'm just not sure that's often enough to justify the extra cost of a bigger vehicle I'd have to live with the rest of the time.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Forester + 10" wheelbase stretch + 3" height increase + compact multi-link rear suspension = a lot more sales than the Tribeca could accomplish.

    A Forester with those measurements would be "bigger" than a Tribeca. That would give the Forester a 109.4" wheelbase, and the Tribeca has a 108.1" wheelbase.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Indeed. :)

    Highlander is bigger than an RX330.

    Pilot is bigger than an MDX.

    And of course both do *more* volume at lower prices.

    Keep it simple, utilitarian. I'd rather not have painted bumpers and climate control, for instance. Nor do I need power seats, stuff like that.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    certainly changing things will do two things:

    1) get some new buyers

    2) lose some current owners.

    I would be in the later category. If I wanted something bigger, I would have bought something bigger back then.

    The question then is whether the new buyers outweigh lost sales. I would likely pick up a Mazda5 if the Forester gets significantly bigger.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    But those vehicles are sold at different dealers (mainstream & premium). That wouldn't be the case with a Forester that's larger than the Tribeca. I really don't see that happening.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd like to see *both*, two models side-by-side.

    It's not unprecedented, Suzuki did it with the Grand Vitara and XL7. Toyota is doing it with the RAV4, only they are selling them in different markets.

    I like the Mazda5 too, but no AWD is a biggie. CR rated it very highly, their new top rated tall wagon.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.naias.com/section.asp?sectionID=22&categoryID=8

    No word yet about production models.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, hope we get invited!

    That would be a nice Xmas gift...

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Where's our Spec B wagon?

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    oh man that wagon is nice.

    I would be really tempted if we had a Spec B wagon coming our way.

    John
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    lol juice you beat me to it.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great minds think alike....

    ;)

    -juice
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    From what I've read on edmunds about the MY08 impreza, it will continue to have the ej25 engine. I've said it before, but I think the base versions of the impreza should have 1.8L to 2.0L of displacement to help fuel economy. Continue to lower unsprung weight aim for 2500 to 2700lbs sedan/wagon version vs 3000+lbs in today's version. Aim for about 28/35 city/hwy mileage with about 110 to 130 hp.

    Leave the 2.5 & 2.5T to performance versions.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They sell a 2.0 in other markets, and a 1.5 in Japan.

    Bob
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