Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They'll build more of them in Gunma, Japan. That's where the Forester and Impreza are made now. Let's see if we get a people mover based on that platform.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Thanks snowbelter, you said essentially what I was trying to about capacity, but in a much more concise and coherent manner. :) All Imprezas and Foresters come from Japan, so much of the target sales volume would come from there, not from SIA.

    edit: looks like juice beat me.

    Bob - Not sure why I hadn't thought of a larger B9-based sedan being the new Legacy. It makes so much sense. Think they can retain the great sporty driving dynamics in a stretched chassis?
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Member Posts: 145
    I haven't tried to figure out all the numbers, but I'm wondering if SOA will now have much room for growth. SIA has a capacity of building 250k units, half of which will be Toyotas. That leaves 125k for Subaru. If SOA is building Legacy's, Outbacks and Tribecas at SIA, doesn't that use up all the capacity? How does SOA hit its target of 200k units, has it given up on that idea? Just wondering.

    The capacity issue currently is with the State Air Permit set at 260k per year. This volume can be raised from what I read in the local paper to 300k. You can't exclude the possibility that they could add a 2nd plant at the location. With the Toyota deal, there will be a large infusion of needed cash for Subaru. I wouldn't be surprised if the plant wasn't expanded or a second plant added on the grounds. That would add alot of extra capacity. This is a win win for both Subaru and Toyota.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Think they can retain the great sporty driving dynamics in a stretched chassis?

    Absolutely. The mid-size Euro sedans (A6, 5-Series & E-Class) are all excellent sporty sedans, especially in their ultra-sporting trim levels (AMG, etc.). There's no reason to fear Subaru can't do the same.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1000 new jobs, too. They'll re-hire everyone and probably a few extra, right?

    -juice
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    Continuing with capacity at SIA for more Subarus. Of the 196k Subarus sold in calendar 2005, 15k were Tribecas, 88k were Legacy including Outbacks, and 6k were Bajas, or a total of 109k. The balance 87k, were Foresters and Imprezzas made in Japan. If the current ceiling for production at SIA is between 125 and 130, then on the surface at least, there is not much room for increased production of Outback, Legacies, or the Tribeca. (20k growth). (All numbers are from the SOA website)

    I sure would like to know where Subaru is going to be able to build that new something, a bigger sedan or van or whatever, at least at SIA, and whether Subaru is resigned to a no-growth niche role. If SOA were to actually start selling Tribecas at the rate they once hoped for (30k), there's no more capacity at SIA, and where's the capacity to build Tribecas for the European market?

    Am I missing something? Martin
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Member Posts: 145
    I sure would like to know where Subaru is going to be able to build that new something, a bigger sedan or van or whatever, at least at SIA, and whether Subaru is resigned to a no-growth niche role. If SOA were to actually start selling Tribecas at the rate they once hoped for (30k), there's no more capacity at SIA, and where's the capacity to build Tribecas for the European market?

    Am I missing something? Martin

    The actual physical plant capacity is somewhere around 300k. The current Air Permit is for 260k. An exemption for the extra 40k for the Air permit is not that large of an issue. The new projection for Tribeca is for 30k worldwide this year. Legacy/Outback projections are for 105k & Baja 6k.

    After Baja production ends in April, Tribeca production will go back to 2 shifts. If current Legacy/OBK volumes are maintained, then Subaru has an annual capacity of 45k Tribecas after the Air Permit increase.
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Member Posts: 145
    1000 new jobs, too. They'll re-hire everyone and probably a few extra, right?

    Pre-Isuzu departure, max employment was around 3400 including temps. The impression I get from reading the local papers, is that this will be 1000 more full time jobs for a total of 3300. I believe this is a net gain for full time jobs of around 200-300.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I like how they kept the SIA designation but it is now Subaru of Indiana Automotive. I think it used to be Subaru-Izuzu Automotive.

    ~Colin
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I sure would like to know where Subaru is going to be able to build that new something, a bigger sedan or van or whatever, at least at SIA, and whether Subaru is resigned to a no-growth niche role. If SOA were to actually start selling Tribecas at the rate they once hoped for (30k), there's no more capacity at SIA, and where's the capacity to build Tribecas for the European market?

    The manufacturing plant can run up to three shifts - almost around the clock. A lot of plants used to do that during periods of booming economy.
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Member Posts: 145
    The manufacturing plant can run up to three shifts - almost around the clock. A lot of plants used to do that during periods of booming economy

    The transplants tend to shy away from 3 shifts because of inflexibility. They prefer 2 shifts and overtime as needed.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Plus the Baja will be discontinued, so any new model would pick up that slack plus whatever excess capacity remains.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Plus the Baja will be discontinued, so any new model would pick up that slack plus whatever excess capacity remains.

    -juice

    So that's maybe 8 vehicles a month. :)
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    :cry::cry::cry::cry: (Big Baja Sobs).

    John
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    the reportage here is that the Toyota product will run on SIA's second line, leaving the first line to Suabru for various derivatives. That would give Subaru about 140,000 vehicles per annum from SIA and Toyota about 100,000, putting th palknat at better overall efficiencies. The proposal is also to introducecertain of the Toyota plant procedures.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Wouldn't buy one, but it was an interesting vehicle to look at on the road. Have a friend who was potentially interested, but just not right now. I wonder what was a major turnoff: high price, when compared to compact trucks, wrong look, or what. Perhaps the whole concept was ill-conceived?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    all opinions of course but I think it is mainly two or three things:

    1) no marketing from SOA
    2) too small in the cab
    3) too small bed w/limited payload.

    On the otherhand it has several major advantages over other small pickups, summed up by mpg, handling, AWD.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They made a lot of mistakes with this one.

    First, the marketing was off. They didn't have brochures ready on time (big mistake), and there was no bed cover available (bigger mistake). They made leather and a moonroof standard on the smallest compact in the segment, which made the price too high (biggest mistake).

    Besides those 3 strikes, the cabin was too tight and the bed was also a bit too small. But it flopped badly enough that they got gun shy and didn't update it or invest in it.

    They could go up against the Ridgeline, but it would require a significant investment, and I think they could do more volume in other niches. So I think this is the last we'll see of the Baja.

    -juice
  • bamaflumbamaflum Member Posts: 39
    I was looking over the past posts and noticed the upcoming changes for 2007. What changes will be made to the Impreza if any with the complete redesign upcoming for 2008? I know the 2007 production starts soon and should arrive in dealers this summer. When will it end for the 2008? Thanks!
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    Take this with a grain of salt, but supposedly the Subaru R2 will be coming to the USA and supposedly in early 2007. I believe high gasoline prices are here to stay and Subaru needs to do what the other manufacturers ARE doing now. COME ON SUBARU.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    With gas around $2.50 now, I imagine it'll be around $3.00 again this summer. I wonder how long it takes for them to actually get the R2 approved by the gov't for sale in the US. I say if ZAP can sell smarts, Subaru can succeed with the R1 & R2, which should be better vehicles.
    Can you reveal or give a hint to your source of the rumor? I would still prefer an R1e, but would probably consider purchasing an R2 - I'd like to see how it stacks up against something like the Yaris hatch. I hope they give it larger wheels for the US, like the R1e received over the R1, to help it look more solid and "sporty". I think that would go a long way in our market.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They should market a version to Star Wars geeks called the R2D2. Maybe that'll be a diesel boxer twin. :D

    -juice
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    It says here R1 FWD makes 24 KM/l, that is 56 MPG!

    I'm ready to buy one!
    95% of my driving is comuting on 30 to 40 MPH streets. No need for high HPs here. If I need to haul anything I can just get wife's Outback.

    R1 would do just fine for me. All I need is a 5 star crash-worthiness to be safe from all SUVs around here tough.
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    It says here R1 FWD makes 24 KM/l, that is 56 MPG!

    I'm ready to buy one!
    95% of my driving is comuting on 30 to 40 MPH streets. No need for high HPs here. If I need to haul anything I can just get wife's Outback.

    R1 would do just fine for me. All I need is a 5 star crash-worthiness to be safe from all SUVs around here tough.
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    Oh yes, lady-bug red for me, please! :D
    image
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    It looks good in red. Here's the R1e I want:
    image
    If they could give the R2 the same treatment, it might look better, but the R2's shape is just not as good as the R1.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    For reference, here's a pic of an R2:
    image
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I think the R1e looks like a smaller, sportier version of the attractive new Toyota Yaris hatch, the smallest of Toyotas, which is actually over 20" longer than an R1. By the time you get Yaris equipped with ABS, airbags and the power package, it's pushing $16,000. Here's yet one more photo, this time of Yaris:
    image
    image
  • chassolchassol Member Posts: 95
    The source is one of Subaru's top dealers in the U.S. Supposedly this was at at recent dealer meeting.

    I quite honestly would like either one as I am looking at the high mileage and the quality build of Subarus. I too like the stying of the R1e.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, that actually looks pretty cool. The R2 is far more utilitarian.

    Either would make a good commuter car for the city. But I honestly think this class of small cars needs some help, in terms of HOV lane access or maybe some small subsidies, something like that. Maybe free parking in urban areas, I dunno.

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Which Yaris are you talkin about? If youre talking about a 5M 3 door hatch, adding Power Pkg, All Weather Guard, RKE, and Side Curtains will bring you $14,200 from the base of $10,950 + $580 destination. Not quite $16 grand...

    ~alpha
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    alpha - you're right - I was off by about a thousand. I was looking at an automatic 3-door hatch, with pwr. pkg, ABS, and side curtains, which came to $15k, not $16k. Of course, with Toyota, who knows what packages will be lumped together.

    The new Honda Fit seems to be a much better value, with those extras included at a lower price.

    Neither the Yaris nor Fit manage to get their mileage above 40MPG, each coming up about 5MPG short of where I was hoping to see them.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    The R models shown above look interesting, but I agree that one of my main concerns would be safety. With all of todays Hummers, and Tahoes, etc out there I want to make sure that I will not end up a smear in the road if in an accident. (Sorry for the bad image there.)

    Mark
  • bamaflumbamaflum Member Posts: 39
    ...discussion the talks about safety. The R2 did very well in crash test--even those against the heavy barrier that represents a SUV or truch.

    link title

    Good to page 10.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Is that the right link, bamaflum? I've read through that before. No page 10 exists yet. Only goes up to page 7.
  • bamaflumbamaflum Member Posts: 39
    ...and there are 15 pages. Hmmm...I don't know what's happening with your computer. :confuse:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not bad:

    image
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I see current info at your link, but not 15 pages, and not any safety info. *shrug*

    juice - where'd ya get the pic?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Found on page 10 of the link above, but it's owned by Subaru of Japan, so I just linked directly to that site.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Problem solved. :D I can see all the pages now, and found all the safety-related stuff on page 10.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    If you want an idea of what packages are available in your area for the Yaris, go to the Toyota website and develop an ebrochure.

    So... the Yaris with all the equipment I mentioned (Power Pkg, ABS, Side curtains, RKE) and the 5M... is $14,200, including destination. A base Fit 5M is $13,850 plus $550 destination = $14,400. "The new Honda Fit seems to be a much better value, with those extras included at a lower price." Prices seem pretty comparable.

    So.. how does this all relate to Subarus of the future? All I know is if that an R2 came over, priced at 15 grand with AWD and similar equipment to the two mentioned above... I'd be all over it...

    ~alpha
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Saw a Yaris sedan out on a test drive, very strange looking vehicle. It's one rare case where to me it actually looked better in photos. In person, the nose sticks out a lot, and the proportions are odd.

    -juice
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Lots of B segment vehicles had odd odd proportions - they try to make them "family" vehicles in Europe and Japan (gas prices), which usually means high roof lines. The trend started in 90s - several Fiat models looks completele out of proportions - small/short platform with tall vehicle on it, so it can accommodate a weekend trip of family of four.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but in photos it seemed like they had pulled it off. Now that I've seen one in person, well, it looks just as dorky as the Echo did to me.

    -juice
  • alaskanwillalaskanwill Member Posts: 28
    I read about this on legacygt.com as a rumor - any other word on it as a possibility? It would be awesome if they optioned that on MT models - aftermarket units are supposed to have questionable reliability at best, so it would be nice to have it under warranty. It makes sense for Subaru to offer remote start, given the brand's popularity in the snow belt.
  • slazengerslazenger Member Posts: 99
    Never heard of any manufacturer offering remote start with MT. How can it be technically feasible?
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    Simple, as long as a gear isn't engaged it wouldn't work.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    it's not that simple to detect whether the shifter is in neutral or not... in fact, all aftermarket remote starts that I have seen just work on the handbrake for a MT. If the handbrake is up, you better not have it in gear before you hit the button.

    If so, hopefully the car doesn't hop too far!

    BTW-- I wouldn't do it but I have seen it numerous times.

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But the parking brake alone will only hold the rear axle, being in gear holds both axles.

    I think this should be for automatics only.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Mitsubishi testing its mini icar in L.A. Subaru needs to be decisive with the R2/R1 - bring it this year or don't bring it at all. I worry they'll be late to the game again, and minicar buyers will have gobbled up offerings from other manufacturers by the time Subaru gets around to this segment, with any initial pent-up demand already satisfied.

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060403/FREE/60331080/1003
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