Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    While I agree, keep in mind the R2 is positively tiny, I think under 134" in overall length. It would be a lot smaller than the current crop of sub-compacts.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That Mitsu does look like a direct competitor for the R2, however. I just wonder if they are financially healthy enough to take a big risk like that. It would make or break Mitsubishi.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    That's actually why I like the R1 better - seems like a better idea to market that small space in a 2+ seater rather than a 4-seater. 4 doors on a car that small looks disproportionate. I'd still buy an R2 if that's what they offer, but if given the choice it'd be an R1e for me.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I think the Mitsubishi is based off of the smart forfour, which is a little smaller than the R2.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The R1 does look better...

    I dunno, I think these mini-cars would almost need a few incentives to help them sell. HOV lane access, discounted parking, something. In europe, aren't these allowed to park facing the curb?

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I think Subaru should pick maybe the top 25 or so cities in the US, and sell R1/R2 only there. I see them as mostly urban vehicles navigating city streets much more often than interstates, so I don't know about the HOV access. The whole point of HOV lanes is to reduce the number of cars on the road. Minis and hybrids only reduce pollution - not congestion. :) Put 2 or more in your R1/R2 on the highway? You're saving fuel/pollution AND reducing congestion... you should get bonus points. :)
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    Juice, how about $3 a gallon fuel? I bought 4 gallons of gasoline this AM for the lawn mower and it came to $12.

    Yikes, the lawn is getting expensive too.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure if that alone is enough.

    When these cars have to share the roads with Suburbans and Expedition ELs, they won't feel safe no matter how much safety is built in to them.

    I had a idea a while ago - they were talking about closing Rock Creek Park all week long, instead of just on weekend like they do today for biking and in-line skating.

    What if they only allowed these small cars instead? And maybe hybrids or PZEVs, something like that? If you gave these cars preferred access like that both drivers and bicyclists would benefit.

    Imagina HOV Lane but instead call it a PZEV Lane or Microcar Lane. Right now the road is a parking lot anyway.

    -juice
  • alaskanwillalaskanwill Member Posts: 28
    I know everybody has been waiting for 2007 model year changes, and I think I might have spotted the first one on the Subaru website: the Legacy 2.5i is no longer available without the special edition package. I realize most Legacies sold in 2006 had this equipped, but now sunroof and power driver's seat are officially standard.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, the SE package was virtually mandatory anyway, it was such a good value.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Got a brief close-up view of the '07 Legacy GT just now.
    Those obstructing door handles to the power windows/lock module are still there, but plastic instead of rubberized.
    There's an addition to the gauge display that shows a graph of the throttle setting(s), I think, and fuel consumption.
    A knob on the center console to control.... "the throttle setting(s)"? Or something like that.
    Nice black leather.

    -Dave
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I'm not sure if that alone is enough.

    You are right, which is why the subie diesel is so important. It will get us 40mpg and we can stick with the Forester/Impreza size vehicles.

    Fuel pricing is really pushing this development. You can get annual costs lower by either reducing vehicle weight, playing with aerodynamics, or bringing in more efficient engines. The last one is easiest to achieve with the new diesel technology. Or, you go back to the 70's where the speed limit never exceeded 55mph.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    will be announced Thursday at NY @ 1:00. Check Straightline for images sometime shortly thereafter.

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    It seems as though Automobile magazine has already started reporting on some changes:

    2007 STi Limited

    2007 LGT Spec B

    Not too many surprises. Perhaps it's just a preliminary report?

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yeah, I saw that. It's over at nabisco too.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    six speed manual in the spec B eh... cool, now it's closer to being worth the premium it commands over the standard Legacy GT.

    ~Colin
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    If and when will a Subaru be a Zapatinas design from start to finish, rather then him coming into the middle of the design process?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    spec.B wasn't a very well kept secret...

    STI Limited is a good idea. Some folks complain the STI is too budget, and they're folks coming down from other much higher priced cars. This might grab a few more of those.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree. It is a good marketing decision. There are a lot of people out there who love the STI's performance, but hate the boy-racer looks. The new Limited will address that audience.

    Also, I see the new STI Limited as a vehicle to help pave the way for the '08 models. It looks upscale, and dare I say—premium...

    I heard from someone who has seen pixs of the '08 Impreza, and while he wouldn't go into any details, he did say the '08 car looked "expensive."

    Bob
  • bamaflumbamaflum Member Posts: 39
    I hope Subaru won't go "too" premium. The average joe will not be able to afford it. Hopefully, they will keep the lower end Impreza (2.5i) for us po' folks who like Scoobies.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think what he meant by looking expensive, was that it was very understated and restrained. When you compare the STI with the STI Limited, that's exactly what I see. The STI is over the top, while the Limited version is very understated and upscale looking.

    This guy also said that there was nothing controversial looking about it. Keep in mind this is all one person's observations. You're mileage may vary...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For the STI:

    293hp, 290 lb-ft of torque

    For the spec.B

    243hp, 214 lb-ft of torque

    So both were downrated slightly, but nothing like Toyota's V6 that went from 210 to 190.

    spec.B also gets VDC and a Torsen rear LSD!

    It also gets charcoal seats with blue inserts, replacing the brick red. A little more flashy.

    Plus it looks like all Legacys will get the SI-Drive, horrible name, but it changes the throttle mapping from normal to economy (linear power, economical) to very responsive.

    Sounds gimmicky, but we'll see.

    -juice
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Wasn't Legacy's torque 250 before? 214 seems like quite a dowgrade...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This engine mapping control will be on all '07 Legacy and Outback turbos. I wonder if the shifts (in manual "performance" mode) on the 5EAT will be faster. Right now they're pretty slow.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I am pretty sure that the Asia-Pacific model Legacy specB is the 3.0L H6, which does make only around 214lb-ft. It's been around a lot more than one model year.

    The US model is actually a lot different including the 2.5L H4 turbo.

    ~Colin
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I thought we were talking US-spec news out of NY show. I must have missed something. 214 sounds right in H6. BTW I wish Asia-Pacific Spec B with wagon/6-sp manual were here. I would run to the dealer today and pay sticker... Or maybe not, but it would be on my very very short list :shades:

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's 241 for the 2.5T in the spec.B, sorry for the typo. H6 wasn't mentioned in the material I read.

    -juice
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    So the torque got so low then? It was 250 lb-ft, now 214? Something does not add up.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I wonder what the price change will be for the Spec B?

    I'd like to know how VDC works in conjunction with the viscous coupling. Looks like they managed it without VTD!

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    hehe, no he mis-typed before and keyed "214" when he meant "241"

    241 is lower than before but still seems reasonable to me. It's not like the car got slower.

    ~Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I've been checking out the information now available at Subaru's media site: http://www.media.subaru.com/

    That Spec B is looking good! It's got a lot of what I wished the GT came with at it's introduction.

    Saw this in their spec sheet description:

    Transmission: 6-speed manual (modified from Impreza® WRX® STI®)

    I wonder what they modified?

    Ken
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    No, it's not. It's the same engine, just the rating lower. 241 sounds right for the turbo. So I see Subaru was one of those guys overinflating the hp figures (or should I say it - using the interpretation room to their advantage ;) . Not very much, but still, they did.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    the dealer installed remote starter/alarm that is an SOC option disables the motor if the shifter comes out of neutral. I don't know how it senses it.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    That Spec B is looking good! It's got a lot of what I wished the GT came with at it's introduction

    Ain't that the truth! :)

    Bob
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Shame it's only a sedan though. Guess we'll have to stick to the WRX for a performance wagon with MT. Even if it is a lousy 5 sp.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Shame it's only a sedan though.

    Indeed, indeed. I'd be trading in the '05 I've got in a heartbeat if they offered the spec B in a wagon.

    Any indication they'll even be offering the Wagon in a MT for '07? I hope so.

    I actually got a call from a saleswoman at the dealership I bought from trying to get me to come in and trade up to an '06. I told her I might consider it if they offered a MT wagon. She said "We do. I'm sure of it!" I told her she'd better be sure and got a call back a few minutes later apologizing for her mistake. It's a shame when the consumer knows more about the line than the sales staff. :surprise: :confuse: ;)

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Found these on the SOA site:

    STI Limited

    spec.B

    Bob
  • alaskanwillalaskanwill Member Posts: 28
    What is an SOC option? Where did you get this info?
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    What is an SOC option?
    Subaru of Canada

    Where did you get this info?
    Well, I've had it installed for over 2 years on my car. There might still be a link at Subaru.ca

    I'm not a lurker, there is a recurring glitch on Edmunds which keeps changing my beloved Maple Leaf the the Stars and Stripes.
    Not that there's anything wrong with that ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Does anyone else agree that the spec.B is Subaru's most "complete" car? By that I mean nothing is really missing from it.

    The STI doesn't have stability control, or NAV for that matter. But the '07 spec.B pretty much has everything.

    I say that because that makes it a true Audi/BMW alternative. Price was $33,995 for the '06, so let's see where this one ends up, my guess is a grand or two higher. But it seems ready to battle with sedans that cost $38-45k, no excuses.

    Before anyone says 241 lb-ft is not enough, keep in mind the old one had the quickest lap times (and won all acceleration tests) in that R&T article from a month or two ago, and that was without the Torsen or the 6 speed!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I would agree—but I also say it should come in wagon form!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Also, I forgot about HIDs. STI has that and spec.B doesn't.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    yep, Spec B needs the wagon version. Otherwise, dogs and camping aren't possible, so no sale to our family.

    John
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I've been crying for a man wagon since they dropped it last year :cry: . So let me join the choir. Not that I have any hope :(

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • alaskanwillalaskanwill Member Posts: 28
    Depending on the ratios, a six speed tranny can hurt 0-60 times by requiring an extra shift to third.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but it won't make it any slower on the track, or in real-world circumstances. Maybe top gear passing, but this is the type of car you're involved with and don't mind shifting.

    -juice
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    My amp goes to 11....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Best movie EVAAAAR!

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I would certainly be in for a Spec B wagon. Had it been available, I would have purchased one!

    An S4 competitor would be great! But I'll keep dreaming for now....

    Ken
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