Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yep, great video!

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    As are just about all of the Top Gear segments.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It looks great. The wheelbase is clearly longer, with less rear overhang, and the body no longer appears ungainly in proportions.

    If this is a Photoshop job, it's the best I've seen by far. Ken, what's the translation?

    Bob (keeping his fingers crossed)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1110
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like it, but I almost wonder if that's enough of an update. It's just an evolution of the current design, you have to look close to even notice the changes.

    Looks like they grafted Legacy headlights on the existing front end. I like the front bumpers, how they follow the curve at the bottom of the headlights.

    Profile looks best. The rear flare reminds me of the current Forester. I wonder if that feature will make production, but I kind of doubt it.

    The windows also look smaller, but everything seems to be getting "chopped" nowadays.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, if we can assume that this is correct—big assumption, I know; if you were to put a current model along side this you will see a big difference. Numero uno, this is graceful, whereas the current model is clunky. What I see here is current styling cues that have been properly massaged to the point where they really work visually.

    Also, I don't think Subaru wants to stray too far from what they've established with the current model. Baby steps (but in the right direction)...

    Bob
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I haven't had as much time for edmunds.com recently, but I wanted to drop by and offer a few bits of info and hello to the other Subie folks!

    - After perusing some of the posts on this thread, there was talk of the availability of VDC. For what its worth, the current Outback VDC is being tested by Consumer Reports (which was also mentioned by one poster) and will be featured later on this year. Also being tested for comparison are the Volvo XC70 and a 2007 Volkswagen Passat 3.6 4Motion wagon later this year.

    - I think the upcoming changes to the Legacy/OB line are great. But Subaru has got to do something to get these models moving out of the showrooms in other places than the Northeast. Sales are stagnant while most non domestic competition is seeing significant increases.

    - Almost 34K on the odo of my padre's 2005 Legacy 2.5i 4EAT 4 Door. Aside from the new model bugs and failures (Side Airbag recall, replacement of rear glass due to defogger/stereo antenna interaction, engine overhaul around the 10K mark), the vehile has been tremendous, and my pops (50 yrs old, FWIW) loves it. He was jealous though, when I told him about the SE with a moonroof and power seat for '06 at basically the same price.

    Just checkin in, hope everyone is doing well...

    Joe
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Long time, no see. I remember your screen name popping up everywhere, though.

    I'm glad that CR is testing the VDC. They complain about Subies being tail happy, and while some of us find that fun, the VDC should address that concern for them.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Catching up here, but I think Subaru has already started putting in a "cheaper" version of their VDC.

    The 2007 Spec B has "VDC" but without VTD AWD. It's simply connected to the standard VC AWD so the VDC controller has no way to actively manage the torque split.

    I wonder if that's what they will use in some models.

    Ken
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Not really. Spec B will have Torsen differential - that's not cheap. Is VDC on any other manual transmission?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Torsen is to manage the rear axle. It's not a center differential. I thought it still had VTD, no?

    -juice
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    You're right. I think it is central is VC on Spec-B (as manual) and will be VTD on those with automatic.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Nope. The 07 Spec B gets VDC but mated to a viscous coupling center diff. No VTD. They could have offered it with the same set up as the STi (6MT+VTD) and instead of DCCD added true VDC instead. The only reason I can see is to reduce costs.

    Ken
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    But isn't VTD really designed to work with automatic?

    By the way - I think Torsen is replacing VC in Spec B, as by it's design it splits torque to front/rear. I may be wrong, though as I don't fully understand nuts and bolts of those systems.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    A slightly longer wheelbase isn't surprising as the Lancer Evo has had ~3.5" longer all along-- 103.5 vs 100 I think. But would it really go all the way to the Legacy's 105" wheelbase?

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    105.9" for the B5-TPH.

    And the weird thing is that while Subaru concepts do not tend to look like the eventual production cars, the exact wheelbase length is often previewed by the concepts. I believe the Tribeca had the same wheelbase as the B11S, for instance.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Tribeca's wheelbase is 2" less than the B11S.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What concept was it, then?

    The B9SC, I think. One of them had the same wheelbase.

    B9 would make sense now that I think about it, the first digit signifies the platform size.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    None that I recall, and certainly not the short 2-seat B9SC.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, that was under 100". Hmm, what concept was I thinking of?

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...is starting to hurt!!

    VDC, VSC, central dif, Torsen, Haldex ---- ooooh I can't take it.

    Subaru - make a decision.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    No, in the WRX STi, a driver controllable version of VTD called DCCD is mated to the 6-speed manual. Subaru could have offered the 07 Spec B with a similar transmission and VDC if they wanted to.

    In the case of the 07 Spec B, the Torsen diffy is in the rear axle and assists in transfering torque left-to-right only.

    Ken
  • aaykayaaykay Member Posts: 539
    But isn't VTD really designed to work with automatic?

    By the way - I think Torsen is replacing VC in Spec B, as by it's design it splits torque to front/rear. I may be wrong, though as I don't fully understand nuts and bolts of those systems.

    VTD is essentially a Planetary gear center differential operating along with a transfer clutch to transfer power front to rear or vice-versa as needed. The setup in the STi is very similar, but provides a button that allows the driver to change the default torque split manually...they just don't call it "VTD" but "DCCD", even though the hardware is the same. In addition, the STi also has mechanical differentials in the front and the rear.

    All VTD equipped Automatics like the Automatic WRX, Legacy GT, 2.5XT Outbacks and the 6-cyl Outbacks get this advanced system. All other Automatics including the Forester XT, do not get this advanced system.

    The manual Subarus (other than the STi) including the manual WRX, Legacy GT or the Spec-B, do not get this advanced system. They have a viscous coupling center diff and in most cases, a viscous coupling rear diff. The Spec-B replaces the viscous coupling rear diff with a torsen rear diff....transfers power side-to-side in the rear. This is not a Torsen Center differential like the Audi or the Passat 4-motion, which transfers power front to rear and vice-versa. To transfer power front/rear, it needs to be a Center differential.

    The Spec-B truly deserves the VTD system of the STi, IMO, if only due to its premium pricing.

    Think of VTD as a true mechanical differential, while the Viscous diff is a less effective hydraulic fluid based system.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    was held in Philly this past weekend. Word has it images were shown on a screen of the '08 Impreza and '08 Forester. One person commented that here in the USA there will remain a sedan and 5-door (same body styles as currently offered). maybe Europe will get the rumored hatchback?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, everyone keep an eye out for spy shots...

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Maybe the hatchback rumors are just more wishful thinking of end-users, as was the case in 2001? :D

    ~Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Latest word found over at nabisoco is that the Impreza wagon may become the long-rumored "hatch!" If you think about it, there's not much difference bewtween the current Impreza wagon and 5-door hatchbacks sold in other countries—or the Mazda3 5-door for that matter.

    Here's the latest image of what might be the new wagon, er... hatch. :)

    It looks like the rear hatch cut line goes well into the roof, like that seen on several other Japanese wagons.

    The wheelbase again appears longer, and that character line rear fender crease flowing from the rear appears again...

    Also rumored: the WRX name may be replaced. A possible replacement name may come from a trim level of an an American sports car. Stay tuned...

    Bob
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Looks terrible (and I am a wagon/hatchback fan) on the picture - hopefully will better in person. I'm not sure changing the name is such a good idea - it got a real recognition with consumers after just couple of years. It also has a legacy to it and real substance. No reason to change it whatsoever, IMHO.

    Instead of messing with names, they should concentrate on what's really important, i.e. content. Stay on top of the competition. WRX had no competition in 02 - it practically invented the class. Now it's getting crowded there, so rather than changing the name, contain the cost and stay on top with features. Messing with names shows me they're lost and have no idea for directions.

    That's my take.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Keep in mind you're looking at a poor quality low-res image—which may be also be nothing more than a Photoshop effort. In fact I would bet it is a Photoshop effort because some of the lines just don't look right; for example, the character crease on the lower rear hatch looks poorly drawn/applied. The bend in the curve there looks to bend not in the center, but more to the left. It just doesn't look right.

    As to the possible name change: Subaru may feel that the name "WRX" is too closely associated with a boy-racer image, and they may want to move up and away from that. If they still want to move upmarket (think Audi A3), it could be a good marketing move.

    Bob
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    If they still want to move upmarket (think Audi A3), it could be a good marketing move.

    It may or may not - look at Ford. Does it help them to hange names all the time?

    Ditching boy racer image sounds great - can they really afford to lose all those customers and pick up enough "premium" (again - the "p" word) buyers to offset the loss? I doubt it - the market is not large and it is well-populated for its size. A3 is not selling in large numbers, everything else in that price range is larger because it's what those people want (my next car will also likely be larger than WRX/A3). How about Legacy GT? Are they going to compete with it with the new Impreza?

    It all makes no sense to me. They have a good thing going and should not give it up for some unsubstantiated mirage of "upmarket" gains. Not at this time, not with these products. Expand line - yes, overhaul - no.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They should not drop the name, there is way too much name recognition associated with it. Being boy racer is OK, sales keep growing, and the Legacy is the mature car.

    Look at the Tribeca, even we don't use the B9 part of the name.

    The image? Looks OK, nothing special. If you squint it looks like an Acura RDX or Infiniti FX shrunken down.

    My problem with it is that it's too anonymous. That could be a Kia, or an Acura, or basically any Asian brand car.

    Plus it just looks too "econo". One look at that and my guess for a price tag is $14,000. Not what Subaru wants.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    latest word from the guy (in the know) over at nabisco is this isn't it either.

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    A photo taken over at LGT.com showed that the 2007 Spec B has the same electric blower to replace the downpipe cat. I'm assuming that the rest of the LGT/OBXT line up will get this too.

    What's interesting is that a catless downpipe should produce more power, but the 2007 is rated at the same level (pre-new SAE methods). It makes me wonder if Subaru tested the new configuration and/or is being very conservative.

    Ken
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Anyone seen the new Stella (the new kei car) pics at nabisco? I bet we'll see some of those design cues on the 2008 Forester... maybe a similar grille, sharp edges, tail lights that extend vertically up along the D pillar, Tribeca-style projector headlights, and the little window at the corner of the A pillar seen on the Stella and Tribeca.

    R1/R2 had many B9 Tribeca design cues. I think we'll see the same reflection between Stella and Forester.

    Can't wait to see a spy pic! Though with Subaru's secrecy, maybe we'll have to wait for the official intro. :(
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Download a PDF of the FHI press release: http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2006/06_06_14e.pdf

    View the Subaru of Japan site: http://www.subaru.co.jp/stella/lineup/

    One of the photos shows a Stella in front of the Staples Center - a sign they're considering sending it to the US?

    Stella gets up to 22.5km/liter, which I think is about 55 MPG.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yep, it's finally launched. No word yet as to whether it will replace the Pleo and/or the R2.

    Note that the base models have a simpler front end, which I prefer.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Boy that thing is boxy, I bet the room inside is fantastic.

    It looks like a tall xB, and I like those.

    I don't like some of the styling cues - the lights on the D-pillar are too "GM Dustbuster Minivan".

    Other styling cues are a bit generic, looks more like a Suzuki or even something Korean.

    So is that thing Impreza-based? Looks smaller.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Impreza-based? No, it's a 660cc car, like the Pleo and R1/R2.

    I like the tailights. I'm not wild about the front though. I've got a blog going up tomorrow on it.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, just read the PDF.

    I would like to see them do a similar car, only bigger, based on the Impreza. Give it 3 rows and make it compete with the Mazda5, only with AWD and a bit more power.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Stella may be marketed in Europe too! The engine can be expanded to 900cc.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=a.nk1DjoCUsY&refer=japan

    I think a 900cc Stella could also work here too.

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    what in the world is a "Subaru signature in-line 4 cylinder"?????

    Since when is an "in-line" engine Subaru's signature?

    Geez, this is menlo-speak if you ask me.

    John
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    what in the world is a "Subaru signature in-line 4 cylinder"?????

    Maybe it's 4 Robin generators bolted together.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Actually it's a transverse 660cc 4-cylinder, DOHC engine. There is also a supercharged version, with a "signature" Subaru hood scoop. :)

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    wow Bob, now it is sounding like the Suzuki motorcycle 650cc air cooled engine of years past. Dunno if this is good news for US or not.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, it's liquid-cooled, not air-cooled.

    There's a whole class (K-cars) of vehicles sold in Japan that are 660cc or less. This is not unique to Subaru.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002/02/24/036231.html

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Good? It's mostly irrelevant for the US. We have a long ways to go before the 660cc B-class Asian microcars are viable in the US. But we are slowly inching that way, with moped and motorcycle sales WAY up and hybrid cars selling extremely well.

    Most of the cars in the 660cc class are inline three cylinders, so I am guessing that Subaru is touting their mighty ;) four.

    ~Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    That's a great summary article. As mentioned, "kei" means "light" in Japanese and is the term used for the sub 660cc models. Aside from their size, they can be identified by the yellow license plates.

    Lower taxes, no need to furnish proof of parking, lots of models to chose from -- they're great for in-city use.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Latest word is that it may by an '09 model, and not an '08 model.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just checked the FitzMall site, and they have several in stock.

    Bob
  • prosaprosa Member Posts: 280
    Latest word is that it may by an '09 model, and not an '08 model.

    As the owner of an '06 I would consider that delay to be very good news.
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