The gearbox fluid I'm using is Amsoil 75W90 in the '98 OBW 5 speed. Has worked just great for the past 50,000+ miles.
That's what we put in all the subies at my shop in NJ. We have also had good luck with Redline and Royal Purple in the trannies.
As for a dealer not carrying the proper OEM fluid, I bet they would order it if you wanted it there are a lot of dealers in the tri-state area (I live here) and I find it hard to believe none of them would order it. Drop a call to Pat up at Wayne Subaru, he's in the parts dept there, and ask him to order it for you.
As for a dealer not carrying the proper OEM fluid, I bet they would order it if you wanted it there are a lot of dealers in the tri-state area (I live here) and I find it hard to believe none of them would order it. Drop a call to Pat up at Wayne Subaru, he's in the parts dept there, and ask him to order it for you.
Any dealer can special order it, but it only comes in five gallon drums. I don't need a five gallon drum nor am I willing to pay $150+ for it. I would like to go to a dealer and have them change the trans fluid with OEM fluid, but they won't special order five gallons just for me. Even Wayne Subaru.
I see, well you need 2 gallons to do the trans and rear diffy. So that's a little less than 1/2 the container. Personally I'd just go with the Amsoil/Redline/Royal Purple and call it a day.
I have about 10k race miles plus 40k street miles on my Royal Purple in my 94 Legacy Turbo and it's fairly smooth still.
Just keeps lookin' better, IMHO. Note the roof rack is, fortunately, NOT the same kind as the Impreza - this one shown is more versatile. :shades: Also note the wood trim bits in the interior and the interesting stitching on what little of the seats is visible.
I'll take the orangish-red one at the top, please. Well, I'll wait for diesel or at least direct injection, but if it those choices were offered now I'd consider being an early adopter of this iteration of the Forester. Hmm... on the other hand, there's no mechanical kinks to work out with this model... no diesel and no CVT.
The front end looks great. They mixed Tribeca and Impreza cues yet somehow it came out better than both of those.
Still love those wheels. Please keep 'em!
Sans camo the rear end actually looks better, far less dull. In that photo you hardly see any Pilot at all. And look how low that rear window is - GREAT for visbility backing up. We may be able to pass on the GPS/backup cam option - it won't need it.
The interior is very simple, look how few buttons are there. Must be a touch-screen GPS. Nice, I prefer it that way.
Looks like the 4EAT may be the only strike against it.
From the JDM brochure posted earlier, translated from Japanese by "lavatiki" at subaruforester.org, here are a few pieces of info... Those blue gauges are the standard gauges. The sport gauges are standard on XT, optional on the mid-range model. There is a slide-out rear table (in the cargo area, I assume). Telescopic steering not available on base, standard on mid-range & XT. One-touch switch for folding rear seat not available on base, standard on midrange & XT. Silver Forester shown in the brochure has the "stylish" package. Red one shown has the "active" package. No word on the components of those packages. Also, it seems that's not a mirror mounted on the front fender of the red one, but an optional front side view camera.
Looks like no more body side cladding. Not good. The interior seems too simplistic, almost barren. I would prefer separtate radio and NAV sections, like the Outback.
The outside looks pretty decent, except for the Altezza taillights which are ugly. I'm glad they kept the fuel filler door on the right side.
Well, fortunately, most of what you do not like is personal preference, and so really there is nothing wrong. Though, it is unfortunate that you own the car and thus must deal with these gripes daily.
As for the transmission, gear oil does have a lot to do with how well the unit behaves. I recommend that you try Amsoil 75w-90 or Red Line Shockproof 75w-90.
Battery - Ugh, yes - I completely agree with you. Worthless buggers in cold weather. Anything colder than -20F and they are so weak that radio preferences will reset - every stinkin' time! That is with climate-appropriate engine heaters installed. Granted, a battery warmer might nurse these duds along, but when a good-quality battery costs the same or less than the heater, why bother nursing it just so it can strand you the first time you are parked without electricity available? If I recall correctly, the battery in my '08 Outback claims 420 CCA. It has worked okay thus far, with minimum temperatures at -5F. I *think* the battery in the '07 was a 260 CCA, which was pathetic (that is the one that would allow radio memory loss at temps colder than -20F). I may be wrong on that though, and my memory is just embittering the thought of it. :P
Other than that, the one real interior problem these cars have quite consistently is squeaks and rattles. They are awful, but my dealer here seems to be able to fix them easily enough.
No car is perfect, but if it is yours, then you are the judge of what is acceptable and what is not.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Other than that, the one real interior problem these cars have quite consistently is squeaks and rattles. They are awful, but my dealer here seems to be able to fix them easily enough.
Funny thing is, with all the gripes I have about my Forester, after 4.5 years, it doesn't have a single squeak or rattle. And I drive it all over pothole-ridden NYC/NNJ area with mildly overinflated (+3 PSI) tires.
Hahah, now there is irony! Granted, you have a Forester and I am referring to Outbacks for the squeaks/rattles, but I honestly would not expect there to be such a difference with interior build quality. The Foresters are still imported though, correct?
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
No squeeks rattles or noises in my 05 LGT Wagon daily driven in NYC and NNJ Potholes O-plenty with very stiff side-wall Summer/Race tires on a daily basis.
I think perhaps the cold temps up in AK may effect the plastics harsher. Same for the battery, most of the cars delivered (I'd say 99%) will never see -20 Degrees, let alone for more than a day or 2. Although Subaru is notorious for putting lower CCA on MT models v. ATs, so when it's time to replace, go for one made for an AT if you have an MT.
I had couple of early rattles in first year of my WRX. Of course intermittent so dealer could not detect them. Some time second year they were all gone. Since then no creaks or rattles.
WRX was nothing but squeeks, rattles and whirrs today. Sitting out all night at -29 (C or F - they cross each other at that point) like it was last night will do that to any car, even a Lexus. Winters being bounced around on rough roads don't help keep things tight either.
I live in FL so I wouldn't know :shades: In my previous life cars were all about rattles, squicks and such. You guys have no idea how it is - just imagine stuff that is half price and tenth of quality of Yugo and then you might. You think that '85 Citation or '80 Impala was bad... Imagine Yugo, but made at third the price and tenth the quality and than you can know what Polish Fiat, Russian Lada, Czech Skoda were like in those times. :lemon:
Compared to those even worst rattling WRX is like Rolls Royce...
Update, drove my brother in laws 05 Outback 2.5i tonight and no squeeks or rattles in it either. Just had him put on Sumitommo HTR+ tires and they held the road very nicely.
I haven't kept up the topics much lately. Just reading the Sydney Morning Herald. I saw an article on the 09 Forester. It said an opposing 4 cyl diesel will be available on the Forester this spring. It will be a 2.0 with manual transmission. Subaru considers it a must in Europe to keep sales. I guessed it will also be available in Australia sometime. Wonder when we might get it in the U.S. and the likely hood of an automatic appearing in the U.S. This maybe old news to you guys and you have already covered it. This Yooper would be interested.
From a recent article interviewing the Subaru president, I think the earliest estimate on the diesel hitting North American shores was 2010. No word on which model we'd see it in first, but you'd have to assume the Forester would be a leading candidate.
Oh, that is a good point, Mike. The 07 was an MT (the one I thought had the 260CCA), while the '08 is an AT. I am not too worried about it at this point, as I should be finished up with it in the next couple weeks if all goes well.
You know, I have a friend with an '05 Outback, and he has no problems with squeaks or rattles either. I have yet to be in an 06, 07, or 08 that does not have them. There are three specific problem spots: 1. glove box, 2. some sort of HVAC clip under the dash, behind the instrument cluster, and 3. lift gate.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
My guess is that due to the tighter tolerances on the fit/finish of the newer vehicles, when it get's cold it effects them more than the less tight 90s models.
That Might be. Unfortunately, the glove box and dash do not really care about the temperature. The lift gate might - the '08 actually did not start out with the rattle in the rear, but it had developed by the time we arrived back in Alaska (about 5200 miles by that point).
*Shrugs* - It is in the shop today to hopefully hunt down the rattles and address them appropriately. I think it is better me to address them than leaving it to the next owner. Since I never had any intention of keeping this car, I do not take any of the issues personally. I just want them resolved so the next owner has the best ownership experience possible. So far, all interested parties have never before owned a Subaru, so maybe I can help make a repeat-owner out of them!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I have an 07 Outback with the cold weather rear tailgate rattle. The dealer made two tries at fixing it last winter (breaking a tail light in the process), but the rattle only went away after it warmed up last spring.
I searched SOA's website and found a Service Bulletin for this problem and told my dealer about it. (12-98 07 R). They ordered and installed some parts, and the rattle is almost gone. They tell me they also found a broken clip inside the tailgate panel which they are going to replace when the part comes in.
Am I the only one who dislikes this convergent design trend? I find it at its worst with SUV's/CUV's. A few years ago you could tell a RAV-4/CR-V/Sportage/Forester from literally half a mile away. I defy anyone to do that today or rather tomorrow when this new Forester comes out. You have to get much closer now as they all share the same bulgy sheet metal lines that automotive journalists like to call "muscular". This really hit home recently seeing a Santa-Fe parked beside a R 330. Their rear ends were so similar. I don't blame Subaru, it's what the market wants, but I just wish there was more art and originality to designs these days. We must be stodgy. In the big CUV field Dra and I both like the lines of the Taurus X as it looks and feels like an old school station wagon. The rest of the bunch seem like variations on the same design theme. Its sales numbers confirm that we are out of touch! In the end though, I don't buy vehicles on looks. I see them as purely functional except at the extremes of ugliness or inspired design.
Those that were vocal and critical of the Tribeca should learn a lesson and tone down their criticism. Noone is willing to take risks when they result in reactions like that.
That's the reason for the convergence. I doubt Subaru will come out with any wild designs after the reactions they got to the Tribeca.
Heck, I liked it, but only about 20% of us did, and the other 80% were screaming about it.
I doubt Subaru responded to the vocalizations of posters on the Web, but rather to the very low sales.
I can't speak for volkov, but I do think automakers should take a chance to be distinctive. It's just that in Subaru's case, they always seem to end up with something kinda weird. I did finally get used to the old bug-eyed look of the Impreza, right around the time they changed it because it also had been heavily criticized. The "fighter-inspired" look it was replaced with (or whatever that was called) looked pretty good, I thought. It just didn't look good on a big model like the Tribeca.
Through it all, they always seem to have done the best styling job with the Legacys. They actually looked pretty good, even with lots of body-side cladding and two-tone paint long after such things were done being widespread in the market.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Any news as to what drive trains this new Forester will have?
Same as current Impreza (5 spd manual, 4 speed auto?, same natural and Turbo aspirated engines?)
Or will Subie offer a 5 speed auto for a change? Would help get better mileage.
Knowing this info would help me decide to spring for Outback or wait until the new Forester appears . Am becoming inclined to wait as Outback is kinda heavy for the engines Subaru offers with it now...
The bug eyes were heavily criticized, the most common comparison was "Neon" when that came out. 2 short years later they were gone.
Then the Tribeca. TTAC actually got banned from the Subaru press fleet. Their comments were so unprofessional BMW joined the boycott. To this day, TTAC does not have access to BMWs or Subarus. So there was a major response, actually.
Reading over the posts there is something I thought I should clarify. I actually think it's a good design and look and will hopefully do well. I know it's very risky for small producers like Subaru if they have a flop. I think my frustration lies with the market more than anything. Why do most consumers want to drive vehicles that look the same? Distinctive designs can be a good thing, done better by some than others. Chrysler did very well with distinctive designs in the past decade. GM did not!
Well, you're talking to someone who happens to like quirky cars.
I like the FJ Cruiser, Honda Element, and most Scions. Especially when the shape serves a purpose.
The original Forester had big, tall windows. Some say it wasn't lifted enough compared to the Impreza, but I think that visually, a lot of that had to do with the very low cowl and window line, which meant excellent visibility. Perhaps the best aside from a convertible with the top down.
That plus it was a box, basically. Well, a two-box shape, anyway. Pure function over form. It looked OK, it just wasn't pretty.
The new one actually looks good, at least to me. The grille smiles a bit. It looks like a cross between a Tribeca and an Impreza, which is right where it should be. The profile looks good, too. Again, big windows, (should be) great visibility. The rear is a bit flat, but check out how low that window lies. I'll take that sort of visibility backing up, any day.
A low windows on the rear hatch does sacrifice some styling points, though.
Check out the current trend of rising window lines, an example is the Buick Enclave. Try backing it up with a backup cam - you can't see a thing behind you.
It's very stylish, but you make a HUGE sacrifice in terms of rear visibility. Make sure you pay for NAV just to get that backup cam!
"I doubt Subaru responded to the vocalizations of posters on the Web, but rather to the very low sales. " I wonder how many sales they lost, though, simply because of the overly harsh styling critiques. Lots of folks wouldn't want to be seen driving a car if the review they read of it called it horrendous looking.
Check out the current trend of rising window lines, an example is the Buick Enclave. Try backing it up with a backup cam - you can't see a thing behind you.
As an Enclave owner I think that is highly distorted. We do not have NAV and have never had an issue with rear sightlines. They may not be ideal due to the high window line but it is far from difficult to back up.
Well, I actually drove a Saturn Outlook. And backed over a curb when I went to park it.
I imagine you would get used to the size, or learn the use the big mirrors, but you just cannot see directly behind that vehicle.
My van also has high windows, so I tested it out.
I put a chair behind the van. Invisible. Then I moved it back until I could see it. It was several feet from the bumper before I could.
My solution? A fish-eye lens. It helps somewhat. I can see the chair when it's fairly close to the bumper now.
I have to back down a long driveway in the dark, and it's tough. I imagine Bob's driveway is even tougher, given it's dark, long, and narrow.
Another thing I did to help was I now routinely park the Miata on one side of the entrace, and the mail box is on the other. Just aim between those two.
I could not see a chair, a small child, a stroller, nothing that tall directly behind me, until I got the fish eye lens.
Another thing I do is get out of the car and look before I back up. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but it's the best way to know for sure nothing is behind you.
I see your point. I have a "normal" suburban driveway. So backing out of the garage, backing out of shopping mall parking spots, etc is not an issue for us. I have never done the chair test but that is what the backup sensors are for IMHO. While we all have different versions of reality I consider the rearward vision on our Enclave to be a non-issue. If you have boats and other toys, once again, maybe it would be. Some people, not you, seem to imply the vehicle is a death trap due to the rearward visibility.
Cool, so you have the sonar sensors that beep when you get close?
I'm sure that would help significantly. Some say they're better than backup cams because the lighting isn't good enough for backing up. We discussed that in the Tribeca thread (also not good in rear visibility).
I thought about those for my van, but my driveway slopes down so I was concerned about getting a good reading at those angles. I'd also have to remove my bumper and a lot of the trim around the back, and was worried about rattles.
The fish eye lens was a very simple, reversible solution. Cheap, too.
You should see Bob's driveway. It's dark, narrow, long, steep, and ... did I say dark?
Even with my small Forester, I would open my window and peek my head out, then try to stay as close to the driver's side as possible.
Then of course his dog is chasing you, running around the car, so there's your toughest scenario for backing up, I suppose. Dark, narrow, twisty, long, steep, with roaming obstacles to avoid on the way down.
Did I capture that dramatically enough, Bob?
I think I would park my van on the street if I visited him with it!
LOL! So true! We have people who turn around in our driveway, as they won't back down.
And yes, Annie can be a big problem. A couple of years ago Deb's family came down, and just before leaving they had the van's sliding doors opening while loading the vehicle. She climbed in, got in the front passenger seat, and was planning on riding shotgun all the way to New England! We had to carry that 100 pound Golden Retriever out of the car.
Comments
That's what we put in all the subies at my shop in NJ. We have also had good luck with Redline and Royal Purple in the trannies.
As for a dealer not carrying the proper OEM fluid, I bet they would order it if you wanted it there are a lot of dealers in the tri-state area (I live here) and I find it hard to believe none of them would order it. Drop a call to Pat up at Wayne Subaru, he's in the parts dept there, and ask him to order it for you.
-mike
Any dealer can special order it, but it only comes in five gallon drums. I don't need a five gallon drum nor am I willing to pay $150+ for it. I would like to go to a dealer and have them change the trans fluid with OEM fluid, but they won't special order five gallons just for me. Even Wayne Subaru.
I have about 10k race miles plus 40k street miles on my Royal Purple in my 94 Legacy Turbo and it's fairly smooth still.
-mike
I'll take the orangish-red one at the top, please.
-mike
The front end looks great. They mixed Tribeca and Impreza cues yet somehow it came out better than both of those.
Still love those wheels. Please keep 'em!
Sans camo the rear end actually looks better, far less dull. In that photo you hardly see any Pilot at all. And look how low that rear window is - GREAT for visbility backing up. We may be able to pass on the GPS/backup cam option - it won't need it.
The interior is very simple, look how few buttons are there. Must be a touch-screen GPS. Nice, I prefer it that way.
Looks like the 4EAT may be the only strike against it.
Mark
Those blue gauges are the standard gauges. The sport gauges are standard on XT, optional on the mid-range model.
There is a slide-out rear table (in the cargo area, I assume).
Telescopic steering not available on base, standard on mid-range & XT.
One-touch switch for folding rear seat not available on base, standard on midrange & XT.
Silver Forester shown in the brochure has the "stylish" package. Red one shown has the "active" package. No word on the components of those packages.
Also, it seems that's not a mirror mounted on the front fender of the red one, but an optional front side view camera.
The outside looks pretty decent, except for the Altezza taillights which are ugly. I'm glad they kept the fuel filler door on the right side.
As for the transmission, gear oil does have a lot to do with how well the unit behaves. I recommend that you try Amsoil 75w-90 or Red Line Shockproof 75w-90.
Battery - Ugh, yes - I completely agree with you. Worthless buggers in cold weather. Anything colder than -20F and they are so weak that radio preferences will reset - every stinkin' time! That is with climate-appropriate engine heaters installed. Granted, a battery warmer might nurse these duds along, but when a good-quality battery costs the same or less than the heater, why bother nursing it just so it can strand you the first time you are parked without electricity available? If I recall correctly, the battery in my '08 Outback claims 420 CCA. It has worked okay thus far, with minimum temperatures at -5F. I *think* the battery in the '07 was a 260 CCA, which was pathetic (that is the one that would allow radio memory loss at temps colder than -20F). I may be wrong on that though, and my memory is just embittering the thought of it. :P
Other than that, the one real interior problem these cars have quite consistently is squeaks and rattles. They are awful, but my dealer here seems to be able to fix them easily enough.
No car is perfect, but if it is yours, then you are the judge of what is acceptable and what is not.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Funny thing is, with all the gripes I have about my Forester, after 4.5 years, it doesn't have a single squeak or rattle. And I drive it all over pothole-ridden NYC/NNJ area with mildly overinflated (+3 PSI) tires.
Slide-out rear table: cool, Saab had this on the 9-5, I hope it's to easy loading. I think Jeep or someone has one on their SUV. Liberty?
Telescoping wheel will come on ours (loaded models), cool.
Folding rear seat button - Mazda has this on the 6 wagon. It works pretty well. I hope it works the same way.
I doubt we'll get the side view cameras, I bet that stays JDM.
Sam - on the lack of cladding, I agree. I will miss that. That stuff was near bullet-proof, self-repairing, easy to clean, a dream basically.
I think perhaps the cold temps up in AK may effect the plastics harsher. Same for the battery, most of the cars delivered (I'd say 99%) will never see -20 Degrees, let alone for more than a day or 2. Although Subaru is notorious for putting lower CCA on MT models v. ATs, so when it's time to replace, go for one made for an AT if you have an MT.
-mike
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Compared to those even worst rattling WRX is like Rolls Royce...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
This maybe old news to you guys and you have already covered it.
This Yooper would be interested.
Jim
You know, I have a friend with an '05 Outback, and he has no problems with squeaks or rattles either. I have yet to be in an 06, 07, or 08 that does not have them. There are three specific problem spots: 1. glove box, 2. some sort of HVAC clip under the dash, behind the instrument cluster, and 3. lift gate.
-mike
*Shrugs* - It is in the shop today to hopefully hunt down the rattles and address them appropriately. I think it is better me to address them than leaving it to the next owner. Since I never had any intention of keeping this car, I do not take any of the issues personally. I just want them resolved so the next owner has the best ownership experience possible. So far, all interested parties have never before owned a Subaru, so maybe I can help make a repeat-owner out of them!
Make sure you take that kind of stuff out. Rattles can even be stuff in the glove box or storage bins. A lining would help some.
I searched SOA's website and found a Service Bulletin for this problem and told my dealer about it. (12-98 07 R). They ordered and installed some parts, and the rattle is almost gone. They tell me they also found a broken clip inside the tailgate panel which they are going to replace when the part comes in.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Bob
I generally like it. Hopefully will be offered without the chome grill. I'll wait for the diesel in 2010.
May give the CRV and Rav4 a run for their $.
-mike
In the end though, I don't buy vehicles on looks. I see them as purely functional except at the extremes of ugliness or inspired design.
Those that were vocal and critical of the Tribeca should learn a lesson and tone down their criticism. Noone is willing to take risks when they result in reactions like that.
That's the reason for the convergence. I doubt Subaru will come out with any wild designs after the reactions they got to the Tribeca.
Heck, I liked it, but only about 20% of us did, and the other 80% were screaming about it.
I can't speak for volkov, but I do think automakers should take a chance to be distinctive. It's just that in Subaru's case, they always seem to end up with something kinda weird. I did finally get used to the old bug-eyed look of the Impreza, right around the time they changed it because it also had been heavily criticized. The "fighter-inspired" look it was replaced with (or whatever that was called) looked pretty good, I thought. It just didn't look good on a big model like the Tribeca.
Through it all, they always seem to have done the best styling job with the Legacys. They actually looked pretty good, even with lots of body-side cladding and two-tone paint long after such things were done being widespread in the market.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Same as current Impreza (5 spd manual, 4 speed auto?, same natural and Turbo aspirated engines?)
Or will Subie offer a 5 speed auto for a change? Would help get better mileage.
Knowing this info would help me decide to spring for Outback or wait until the new Forester appears
The bug eyes were heavily criticized, the most common comparison was "Neon" when that came out. 2 short years later they were gone.
Then the Tribeca. TTAC actually got banned from the Subaru press fleet. Their comments were so unprofessional BMW joined the boycott. To this day, TTAC does not have access to BMWs or Subarus. So there was a major response, actually.
Again, 2 years later the look was gone.
Each re-do toned down the look substantially.
I think my frustration lies with the market more than anything. Why do most consumers want to drive vehicles that look the same? Distinctive designs can be a good thing, done better by some than others. Chrysler did very well with distinctive designs in the past decade. GM did not!
I like the FJ Cruiser, Honda Element, and most Scions. Especially when the shape serves a purpose.
The original Forester had big, tall windows. Some say it wasn't lifted enough compared to the Impreza, but I think that visually, a lot of that had to do with the very low cowl and window line, which meant excellent visibility. Perhaps the best aside from a convertible with the top down.
That plus it was a box, basically. Well, a two-box shape, anyway. Pure function over form. It looked OK, it just wasn't pretty.
The new one actually looks good, at least to me. The grille smiles a bit. It looks like a cross between a Tribeca and an Impreza, which is right where it should be. The profile looks good, too. Again, big windows, (should be) great visibility. The rear is a bit flat, but check out how low that window lies. I'll take that sort of visibility backing up, any day.
A low windows on the rear hatch does sacrifice some styling points, though.
Check out the current trend of rising window lines, an example is the Buick Enclave. Try backing it up with a backup cam - you can't see a thing behind you.
It's very stylish, but you make a HUGE sacrifice in terms of rear visibility. Make sure you pay for NAV just to get that backup cam!
Compare to this Forester rear view:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-subaru-forester-jdm-scans/525150/
I wonder how many sales they lost, though, simply because of the overly harsh styling critiques. Lots of folks wouldn't want to be seen driving a car if the review they read of it called it horrendous looking.
As an Enclave owner I think that is highly distorted. We do not have NAV and have never had an issue with rear sightlines. They may not be ideal due to the high window line but it is far from difficult to back up.
I imagine you would get used to the size, or learn the use the big mirrors, but you just cannot see directly behind that vehicle.
My van also has high windows, so I tested it out.
I put a chair behind the van. Invisible. Then I moved it back until I could see it. It was several feet from the bumper before I could.
My solution? A fish-eye lens. It helps somewhat. I can see the chair when it's fairly close to the bumper now.
I have to back down a long driveway in the dark, and it's tough. I imagine Bob's driveway is even tougher, given it's dark, long, and narrow.
Another thing I did to help was I now routinely park the Miata on one side of the entrace, and the mail box is on the other. Just aim between those two.
I could not see a chair, a small child, a stroller, nothing that tall directly behind me, until I got the fish eye lens.
Another thing I do is get out of the car and look before I back up. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but it's the best way to know for sure nothing is behind you.
I'm sure that would help significantly. Some say they're better than backup cams because the lighting isn't good enough for backing up. We discussed that in the Tribeca thread (also not good in rear visibility).
I thought about those for my van, but my driveway slopes down so I was concerned about getting a good reading at those angles. I'd also have to remove my bumper and a lot of the trim around the back, and was worried about rattles.
The fish eye lens was a very simple, reversible solution. Cheap, too.
You should see Bob's driveway. It's dark, narrow, long, steep, and ... did I say dark?
Even with my small Forester, I would open my window and peek my head out, then try to stay as close to the driver's side as possible.
Then of course his dog is chasing you, running around the car, so there's your toughest scenario for backing up, I suppose. Dark, narrow, twisty, long, steep, with roaming obstacles to avoid on the way down.
Did I capture that dramatically enough, Bob?
I think I would park my van on the street if I visited him with it!
And yes, Annie can be a big problem. A couple of years ago Deb's family came down, and just before leaving they had the van's sliding doors opening while loading the vehicle. She climbed in, got in the front passenger seat, and was planning on riding shotgun all the way to New England! We had to carry that 100 pound Golden Retriever out of the car.
Bob
That's what all you DC drivers do isn't it??
Actually, the Saturn dealer has cars parked up on the curb, so you sort of lose your reference point. Bump. Oops.
They didn't have a backup cam option at that time, but they do now.
I'm not sure if sonar would help identify something as small as a curb, would it? :confuse: