By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I guess that they would have versions without the 3rd row seat. Is the Outback independant suspension in the back? In other words is it possible that the 3rd row would fold flat? :confuse:
I'm sure they would design it to fold flat, like the Tribeca's.
Looks like a Saab 9-3.
Also, the 2010 Outback is not merely a re-packaged Exiga. They may be similar, but they are very different vehicles.
I heard this today.
Bob
Maybe it'll just be a Tribeca alternative for regions that want something smaller?
I'm surprised.
The name sounds incredibly familiar.
Bob
They also talk about a WRX that will better the diesel Outback's 38 mpg with its own diesel powertrain. How soon before these come on-line? However, soon it is, it can't come soon enough.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
To be honest I think it would be the perfect engine for the Outback Sport.
I own a Toyota, and it feels nothing at all like a Subaru. Not even remotely.
Bob
That (and high prices for gas) will lower demand for gasoline, which will balance things out.
Over $4 here in Georgetown, DC, for regular. Diesel is approaching $5 per. :surprise:
Also looks like some new engines are on tap for it, with the current H6 being phased out.
Only if they've infiltrated Holiday Auto magazine and gotten to their photoshoppers. :P
The EPA emmisions scores and the availability of PZEV models seems to make the emmissions criticism appear completely unfounded.
OTOH I've said before that the 3.0 is a step behind the current top-tier 6's and needed to be updated or replaced. The 3.6 from the Tribeca is a different story entirely with very smooth character and good power and economy. I can't help but wonder if that engine with a different tune wouldn't have been been capable of very good performance on reg gas in the current OB/Leg.
(The 3.6L in Tribeca is already tuned to run on regular fuel, BTW. No need for it to be re-tuned for Leggy or OB. I hold out hope we'll see it applied to those models.)
Did you see the rumored engine specs being tossed around in Bob's recent post? The story says engineers have used knowledge gained from designing the new boxer diesel to develop new 2.0 & 2.5 gasoline boxers, with the normally aspirated 2.0L developing 200HP, weighing less than current, and with a lower center of gravity than current. If that's true, that's the next Engine of the Year award for Subaru. 200HP from a N.A. 2-liter?! :surprise:
Subaru degraded the 08 WRX's capabilities over the prior version, by quietly taking out the rear LSD and in case of the 4EAT, by completely removing the VTD and slipping in the cheaper AWD of the regular 4EAT Imprezas (hoping nobody would notice). Sure, they added the VDC into the lowest end Impreza to the highest-end STI, a feature which will now be available in $10K Kia Rios, through a governmental mandate.
Subaru forgot that adding a couple of tweaks into a 5 year old discontinued model was not what the market wanted but how well does the new model stack up, when it goes toe-to-toe with other products in the marketplace.
The 08 base Impreza was an excellent value, with a lot of improvements over the prior version and also a good value when compared to the other alternatives in the market, and the market has clearly spoken FOR it by opening their pocket-books and increasing its sales numbers.
The STI was also a BIG improvement over the prior version, with a competitive feature-set, vis-a-vis the competition. The market has spoken clearly FOR it, too. I personally liked the new STI, since it came as a wagon. In fact, the 08 STI should have been what the 08 WRX came out of the gate as, if it had logically progressed from its introductory feature-set from 2001.
All of my predictions have clearly happened, exactly as I envisioned, with Subaru losing out big in the high-margin, high-volume Turbo model (WRX). And now they are back to their old and expensive game of "remodeling" a newly introduced product. :sick:
While you didn't name me directly, it's clear that this comment was aimed at me. Let me set the record straight. The new WRX is both better and worse than the outgoing model.
It's better in just about every way when comes to daily driving. I've driven four '08 WRXs (and two '08 STIs), and I own a '06 WRX Limited. If I had to commute and use it as most of us use our vehicles, I'd pick the '08 model over my '06 model any day of the week.
It's worse in that it's lost its mojo. It made little or no advances in performance over the outgoing model. That's a sin of the first magnitude for the audience it's aimed at—and I've been consistent in saying so pretty much from the get-go. Styling is subjective, but I prefer the new model by far over my car. You may not.
Yes, the WRX audience has voted, and the sales are down as you stated. More important is that Subaru recognizes this mistake. Expect to see more horsepower and better handling on the '09 WRX, as well as some minor styling tweaks. I know for a fact that the Mazda Speed3 was one of several cars the '09 WRX was benchmarked against. So I expect the '09 model to at least match or exceed that car.
Bob
BTW, I honestly did not remember that old WRX 4AT had VTD - now it is really clear to me Subaru was either really desperate in cost-cutting mesures, or simply insulting to intelligence of its customers with the new WRX. Unfortunately I'm inclined to think the latter. I think their "going mainstream" meant mostly going lowest common denominator on tastes - sort of like previous going "upscale" as adding turbo and jacking the prices without any real strategy behind it. They seemed to had hoped that losses of their existing customers (better-educated) would be easily offset by those "mainstream" dumb-dumb customer who would just bite into whatever they push out just because AWD became "the it" factor. Just like Mike, they thought "well if there is nothing with AWD in 25-30K segment, we own it with whatever we put out there and if they buy something else we just don't consider them as potential WRX buyers". Worked great, didn't it? It's mindboggling that existing customers of '02-03 (like mine) would not take thousands of trade overallowance and rather elect staying with their current car. Juice was again saying "Oh, you are just biased against it, cause you like your current car so much". I wonder if those previous gen 3-series buyers would have stayed with their cars if BMW offered them 3 grand over market on their car just so they buy a new one. Their bias would really hold them against the new one, they would really think the old 3 is better than new. Yeah, right...
For me, the story of WRX is a clear example of arrogance combined with incompetence in their product planning department. It is also a great example how you can take something great and kill it with bunch of little shortcomings. None of WRX flaws is really fatal on its own, but combined they really created disasterous mix of dullness and underachievement.
While I agree it's good they recognized their problem, I dare to say it really should not have happened at the first place, as they did have all ingredients they needed almost straight from the shelf. It's not like they were waiting for some kind of breakthrough technology and simply had to settle for less. They chose not to put things in and simply assumed the idiot customer will take it for its name. Your praise of them reminds me a Fox News commentator praising current president for firing Michael Brown (FEMA guy) and telling his viewers with a straight face it was a example of excellent leadership to recognize the problem (as we also know later tapes show Brown was actually one who was probably least at fault there, but at that time we all thought Brown had to go).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
...I dare to say it really should not have happened at the first place, as they did have all ingredients they needed almost straight from the shelf.
We're on the same page here. Some dumb decisions were made—the biggest being increasing the "fun" gap between the WRX and STI.
As I said, however, by most rational means of assessment, the new car is better than the old one It's just not quite as much fun—which is key—and a big no-no—to the average WRX buyer.
Bob
Like Forester XT, Tiquan needs premium fuel. Some of the specs suggest it uses more fuel and is slower than the Forester XT. This is despite Tiguan having a 6-speed auto transmission, direct injection, and all the tricks...what gives ??
Pricing seems to give the VW an advantage but their web site is broken and I can only guess that all the options, like leather interior and other stuff, will end up pricing it like the Forester XT.
And yes, I had briefly considered waiting for comparing that model, until I discovered there weren't any VW dealers in my area I really wanted to buy a first year VW from.
In fact, one reason the '09 Forester was OK as a first year model was because, save for its turbo and sport shift changes, its drive train has had considerable shake out time in the '08 Imprezas.
I guess, I'm more of a go than show person, rather have my car "blend" or be "mainstream" than be outlandish, so long as it was equally as fast, handled as well, and HAS A SIGNIFICANTLY better ride and MORE INTERIOR ROOM, VDC, just to name a few things you couldn't find in the old generation.
I agree the options such as leather, moonroof should have been available, but otherwise the car is what it is. I'm glad they are fixing the options for next year, hopefully. But otherwise it's a great car and rides tons better than the old one w/o giving up speed or handling.
-mike
I was talking about the market, not me. I'd rather have the go, but at the wrong side of 40 I don't think I'm the dominant WRX demographic anymore. I am at the time where I'd appreciate a little more comfort, and am not above having the car's electronics make me a better driver. I actually considered getting the new model after weighing all the tests and opinions and probably would have if it kept the sun-roof. My workdays are spent in dark rooms and winter days give us less than 8 hours of daylight in December/January so I have my reasons for the latter.
My favorite WRX from the 02-07 is the 07 STi Limited. Suttle, leather, roof, etc.
-mike
BTW, STi Ltd is a prime example of cluelessness of US Subaru marketing. They have a model sold out in first couple of months. Do they extend the line? No. Do they follow up with it in next STI? No. Do they introduce WRX with same flavor? Of course not. Why would they? It would be too logical.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The only hope for WRXs profitability I see is if it gets really close to STI in terms of styling/options/etc, even some mechanicals (e.g. 6-speed manual), but stays far enough in price (basically stays at current levels), i.e. if WRX becomes effectively STI substitute - then it has a chance to survive incentive cuts. But that would be against so-called mainstream strategy - so pickle, isn't it?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
Why wouldn't they try and get us Ltd edition Spec-B wagon? My understanding it would be exempt from some expensive tests if it was below 500 threshold. They have a body, they have engines/trannies. Wouldn't that be worth trying?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Read your post and you'd never know FHI is churning out profits despite a miserable market. This year and last, by the way.
You have to qualify the statement "sales failure" because Impreza sales overall are up. You and dino said they would slow down but they haven't - in fact April sales were up 16%.
You're calling me out, so I'm calling you out - they are up 16%, not down.
Is that a fluke? No. March Impreza sales were up 18%.
2 in a row? Make it 3. Feb sales were up a whopping 24%.
You would never know it was a "sales failure".
Acura, BMW, and Audi are not Subaru's competitors, and will not be unless Subaru revolutionizes their vehicles, warranties, and service facilities. Until then, Subaru will remain basic, no-frills transportation with an added benefit of AWD.
Ouch, didn't you also say that sales would drop? That this was a new model and it would cool off? Explain the last 3 months, please.
You called me out, so I'm calling you out. Turnabout is fair play.
Sales haven't cooled off. They're on fire.
What I said, my main point, which you both obviously missed, was that the real volume seller was the FORESTER, not the Impreza, and that the updates such as VDC, window frames, longer wheelbase, upgraded rear suspensions, were important because those same upgrades would apply to their cash cow, i.e. the Forester.
The 98 Forester sold at 3 times the volume of the Impreza at the time. Subaru wisely planned to apply upgrades their cash cow needed.
I was correct, too. For the first full month, Forester sales were up a whopping 49%. With zero cannibalization - all other models were up as well. Best case scenario. Even better than I predicted (perhaps I did not drink enough of that Kool Aid?) :P
Total Legacy 1,890 +32%
Total Outback (including Legacy Wagon) 4,137 +1%
Total Impreza 4,010 +16%
Total Forester 5,339 +49%
Total Tribeca 1,395 +29%
The two of you seem to think the WRX is their most important model, and ignore overall Impreza and even STI sales.
That's where we disagree. The STI is their halo car. The Forester (and Outback) pay the bills. You are both overestimating the importance of the WRX in the lineup.
This is a matter of different priorities. The STI is a hit, and the Forester is a hit, so Subaru is laughing all the way to the bank.
WRX sales as a % of total Impreza sales may be down, but who knows? Sales are so much higher they may still be selling just as many as last year. We haven't even seen sales broken down by model, before and after.
Any how, my point (then and now) is that the WRX just isn't as important as it once was.
WRX may (or not) be no longer their most important model - that I give you. I just don't know. It is possible they said "screw you all WRX owners" - but I simply don't think so. 20-30K compact is somewhat prestigeus segment in these days, at least it terms of image. That's why it has been invaded. The buyers are actually those who want a car that is more than what they need and they often have enough money poney up extra 5 grand if they get what they like. IF Speed3 could sell with ADMs, properly done WRX could sell at sticker.
Forester is a hit and it should - lower price and improved line should do as much. After disasterous start, it should be no surprise Tribeca sales are up - they really had nowhere to go. Legacy up is probably biggest surprise to everybody. Nobody has really come with a theory where these buyers came from. Perhaps those are former 4WD guzzler SUV owners, but who knows.
By no means I'm saying Subaru is shutting down, but WRX was clear mistake, if not marketing disaster. Say at least that much and I leave you alone with rest of your "feel good" cause Love it's what makes Subaru, a Subaru, isn't it?
2018 430i Gran Coupe