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Comments
These are the first applications of the Subie diesel spreading beyond the Euro-spec Legacy/Outback, as well as the first diesels with 6-speeds.
Bob
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Not a whole lot, the Cobbs are really setup for a Turbo-back setup which includes a downpipe as well as the catback. The SPT is only a cat-back exhaust.
The Cobb with the Turbo-back exhaust yields 305hp/385lbs at the crank v. 253hp/260ishlbs at the crank stock.
-mike
I got a survey asking all sorts of questions (we just bought an 09 Forester Limited).
So I doubt a hybrid will appear any time soon.
John
Even the best diesels can't compensate for a 50% plus cost disadvantage. This is crazy.
Maybe diesel prices will die down once everyone gets all their heating oil.
1. Awkwardly short powerband
2. Increased engine noise
3. Clunky noise (have you every compared gas to diesel)
4. Increased and unfamiliar maintenance
Yeah makes perfect sense. Just as much as first hybrids did at 5 grand over sticker.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I can see why Subaru is weighing its options regarding making the diesel boxer 50-state compliant - they could bring it here just in time for gas prices to drop and no-one would buy it!
I wish they had gone ahead with the hybrid - they could have shared Toyota's HSD without much cost, presumably, since Toyota is part owner these days. I suppose it would have been difficult to develop that powertrain to include Subaru's boxer 2.0
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It's better suited for towing, if that's your thing.
Last thing may be longevity. Diesels tend to have a longer life, though Subaru's is new and not yet proven in the long-term.
Still, for $1800 more, with fuel costing 50% more, you simply will never break even. Actually, you'd pay more up front and continue spending more for the life of the vehicle, unless diesel prices drop.
They used to. A lot of durability/ruggedness advantages of diesel were defeated with new pollution restrictions and turbocharging. Old Mercedes 300D diesel was a N/A engine that would literally last milion miles and run on a vegetable oil. No more - those new cute Bluetec diesel engines have about the same level of complexity and sensitivity as those high-output gas engines. Which means, very sensitive to fuel, very maintenance intensive and not as long lasting between overhauls, etc. That applies not only to those passenger car diesels, but also to those big truck/bus diesel engines as well.
If anything, it looks to me diesels kind to run into a dead end.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
However, all that was recently put in question as the diesel price rose disproportionally to gasoline (currently in US we have almost 50% higher price; in Europe they are about even or diesel is just slightly more). The prognosis are for diesel price go even higher in proportion to gasoline. It really spiraled to levels at which passenger diesel practically defeats itself.
So yes - cheaper to make fuel became more expensive simply because more machines want it. I would say adding even more machines running on the same expensive fuel makes very little sense, especially that alternatives are better in those applications.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The demand for diesel in the US did not see a significant change over the last few years so it doesn't justify the spike in domestic prices relative to gas. Make it expensive for a while and it kills an emerging market to a point that it won't recover, and passenger diesels are an emerging market in the US. Seems a little contrived to me; you can make up your own minds.
Fuel efficient passenger cars with diesel propulsion were a byproduct of general increase of energy/fuel prices, hence people seeking alternatives and manufacturers following with their R&D. However, the demand for particular fraction of oil that is used in those vehicles rose much faster than demand on gasoline, hence higher price, higher pace of increases, etc.
Diesel used to be "the uggly duckling" of the industry, now it's the primary profit driver. No particular conspiracy is needed - oil companies simply faced larger diesel orders, which meant they could ask for higher price. Unlike passenger cars, commercial and agricultural vehicles don't really have alternatives to diesel. There are some CNG/LPG/LNG attempts in commercial use, but it still will take some time to implement them (and falling oil prices don't help).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Well said, and probably the main reason if the Subaru boxer diesel never makes it here.
But that 2 liter turbo engine might make a great direct injection high mpg addition to the line of GASOLINE engines. Toyota has the technology so why not?
The 2GR in the RAV4, Sienna, and Camry are not DI versions.
Then again, GM offers the DI 3.6l V6 in the Malibu (and Camaro) yet it is not standard on the CTS. Go figure.
I doubt if the general public even knows Toyota has any ownership in Subaru (Fugi). So that should not be a problem. Perhaps more pertinent is the possibility that the more expensive new Legacy/Outback models will be DI. DI will probably be necessary to get even close to the coming required Corporate Average Fuel Economy ratings. The DI 2.5i would probably have about 200HP and the 2.0DI might be 180HP. (That 180HP rating was hinted at by Subaru several years ago in survey questions about future 1.8l-2.0l normally aspirated engined lightweight models.)
You know Subaru, though. Just because the Legacy gets DI doesn't mean other cars will. The Legacy still did not get the 3.6l H6.
Consumer Reports said there will be a new Legacy next spring: Those models (probably longer and wider and possibly heavier) might need the 3.6l and DI 2.5 just to maintain performance at the present level. The present 3.0l in my Outback is a fine engine if city mpg does not matter....but CAFE will dictate new models' engine availability. Unless the 3.6l is much more efficient than the 3.0l, the 3.6 might disappear along with the Tribeca which is not selling well. Perhaps DI for the 3.6 could improve mpg.
Competitors have gone to bigger V6 engines so at this point Subaru would only be catching up.
Subaru provided a detailed description of the difficult assembly procedure in an article for SAE International some time ago. I can't remenber the detail. The other major improvement over the 3.0 liter was a new cylinder head design with better cooling for (I believe) the front cylinder to remove a hot spot: this is what permits operation on 87 octane fuel.
The cylinder head should have no extra production cost, but the assembly could be costly.
If Legacy gets the JATCO CVT, the 3.6 l would more closely equal the characteristics of the Nissan six with which the CVT was originally designed to work.
The 3.6 will put out somewhere between 300-350hp
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
From what I could gather it's more G37 Sedan-like than that concept promotes.
Slightly wider, slightly longer, framed windows.
The one I did spy had a Diesel Boxer Badge on the back and a scoop. Not sure if that will be an actual option but that's the real one I saw on the street. Much more evolutionary from the current car than what that "concept" gives the impression of.
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
Bob
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
Bob
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
PS Mike, where you finding the time to post? Hearing all news about the ice storm in your area, I expected you'd have been putting in some serious overtime lately.
-mike
Subaru Guru and Track Instructor
This bodes well for the production model because that's exactly the type of change you can expect.
That grille is too "Acura" for my tastes, and in a bad way.
Bob
Or worse - with a "grille".
My sources tell me the vehicle will be 2.5 in. wider which will be a welcome change as if there is one area that could use a little help it's interior room.
Frankly, if they don't make the interior less appealing than the current model and make the styling a bit more sleek and upgrade fuel economy a bit they'd have my interest.
I'm extremely happy with the current model. The preview photo of the front end doesn't look bad. Let's hope the rest of the vehicle gets a decent styling treatment.