Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    My read of the article was that they intended to seperate the WRX line from the Impreza, not necessarily can it. We'll see.
    I have never seen the WRX numbers equal the STi in the same test for 0-60.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Car & Driver actually reached 60mph quicker in the plain WRX.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Never saw that. Were they run at the same time?
    Every other test done at same time and conditions has the STi high 4's and the WRX low 5's. Part of the 0-60 issue is that the STi has one more shift before 60 and the WRX is about to hit fuel cut at 63 or so in second. 0-70 there is no way they are close.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Exactly. The extra shift needed in the 0-60 is the STI's downfall.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2011
    They hit 60mph in 4.7s in the plain WRX, IIRC. Good launch, perhaps.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Drop in the DSG like the Evo and it could probably cut at least .5 sec off the STi's time.
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Any idea when Impreza first drive reviews will come?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Originally late August, as the cars were to hit showrooms in September. Now reports are saying dealers won't get cars until November, all thanks to the earthquake in Japan. So, maybe the drive reports will come in October? Who knows...

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,706
    These late dates seem like a stark departure for Subaru, as usually new models and model years are available by June or July. Are 2012 versions of non-new models (Forester, Outback, Legacy, WRX) also pushed back to the Fall?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yup, some models arrived in late March/early April in the past.

    They did shorten the cycle from 5 years to 4, so call it 4.5 years.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited June 2011
    Again, thank the earthquake for this. Subaru and many other brands—and not just Japanese brands—will be feeling the economic aftershocks for months if not years.

    If you can't get airbag sensors, power window controls, wiper motors, and other like stuff; it shuts everything down, or slows it to a crawl.

    Bob
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    These forums have been quiet lately...

    Other than the all new 2012 Impreza, does anyone have any clues as to changes to the other models?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Nope. Not a clue. The only thing I know is the cars will be out in the fall, not this summer, thanks to the quake in Japan. That screwed up all the Japanese new model intros.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/07/subaru-promises-four-new-models-by-2016/#cont- inued

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I expected this, but I didn't expect anything like the illustration shown here.

    http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1107_subaru_wrx_to_go_its_own_w- ay/index.html

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,706
    Nice. The direction sounds promising, anyway. It looks like something good might be coming out of Subaru's record sales runs after all!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    Collaboration with Toyota on the FT-86 project also seems to have something to do with the direction of the new WRX and STI. "If the truth be known, we were able to focus so deeply on the motorsports element with the new WRX because we developed a sister car with the Toyota FT-86. .."

    This makes perfect sense. The Toyobaru will indeed launch with around the rumored/discussed level of power, about 200 hp, which will be sporty but not overly impressive in an era where lots of mundane vehicles have 250-300 horsepower.

    So then Subaru figures to have a 2014 model ready to go that will be significantly more powerful. And instead of letting that model cannibalize WRX STi sales, it will BE the WRX STi. Or if it has a new name, the WRX STi won't exist any longer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So move the WRX upscale, separate it from the econo-Impreza, slot the FT whatever in between.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited July 2011
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/27/subaru-xv-read-impreza-outback-sport-leaked-v- - ia-patent-render/

    This is the heir to the Impreza Outback Sport. Looks like it gets bigger tires than the Impreza, as well as considerably more ground clearance. No word as to whether it's coming here, but I can't believe that it wouldn't.

    Bob
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    Subaru definitely should have a small CUV. Nissan Juke, Mazda CX5, VW Tiguan, Kia Sportage, etc.

    It needs to be sufficiently differentiated from the Forester and Outback.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,706
    Looks like a new reality TV series, "Butch My Ride!" Subaru would be a contender for sure. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Higher ride, new bumper, roof rack, fender flares, different wheels/tires...

    Anyone notice they deleted the rear wiper, though?

    Probably just an omission.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/27/subaru-wrx-official-escape-vehicle-of-the-zom- bie-apocalypse/

    Should be funny...if anything he hesitates and thinks about it for too long.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    These are from China, plus these are just drawings. I would expect a rear wiper on production models.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This guy just got back from the national Subaru dealer's meeting, and had a chance to drive the all-new Impreza.

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34790408&postcount=2352

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited August 2011
    I can't believe he saw the coupe...nice.

    On the Impreza - interesting that he liked the electric PS better. I usually prefer hydraulic.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited August 2011
    That's the new name for the coupe.

    B = Boxer
    R = RWD
    Z = Zenith (god knows why?)

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/23/subaru-names-its-coupe-brz-as-concept-heads-f- - or-frankfurt/

    http://www.subaru-global.com/11frankfurt/teaser/

    So is this better than a CR-Z because "B" comes before "C"?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nickname Brazil?

    Not crazy about the name. I guess they wanted a cousin for the WRX.

    Also, at least they resisted the trend to add -R to the name.
  • fandcfandc Member Posts: 51
    BRZ.

    Pronounced "Brat"? :P
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    The explanation for Z/zenith:

    From Automotive News:
    "The Subaru BRZ gets its name from the B in boxer engine, the R in rear-wheel drive and the Z in zenith, as in the "ultimate passion" for sports cars, according to Subaru."

    kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    the R in rear-wheel drive

    So where is the outrage of the loss of DNA??

    You people disappoint me!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've expressed concerns for a while now.

    I always said the Toyota version should be RWD and the Subaru version, AWD. Exclusively.

    Bob has been livid about it - he may be too angry to even talk about it at this point (really).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've been very vocal over at NASIOC, only to repeatedly shot down, insulted and belittled by the jerks over there. Once the decision was officially announced, I gave up.

    I think this car is absolutely wrong for the Subaru brand, and will go to my grave believing so.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Thank you guys for restoring my faith in the the faithful.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,706
    I agree with you, Bob.

    The one advantage to it being powered by a single axle, though, is that it will not cannibalize WRX sales. I'm not sure where it is going to have any edge over the Toyota twin, though, so what is the impetus for a buyer to even choose the Subaru other than brand preference?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    The BRZ cannot possibly fit a standard center differential or transfer case up front due to how low the engine sits.

    However, it can mount a turbocharger with ease.

    It also could conceivably mount electric motors on each front wheel. Neither Subaru nor Toyota yet has anything like that, but I think Porsche and others have done it.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited August 2011
    Agreed. That's what I was hoping for, electric motors up front; but that looks very unlikely. Everything I've read to date said no AWD model is planned.

    I'm sure it will be a great little sport coupe (for Scion), but it will be a lousy Subaru.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe Bob will refer to it as the BRaZier? :D

    Toyota has more dealers, so the Scion will outsell it.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    edited August 2011
    I don't understand all the excitement over a car that nobody will buy. Let's face it, while cute and sporty, two-door "sport-cutes" simply don't sell anymore. The only ones that do sell are powerful and/or premium sport coupes, like the Infinity G or the Mustang.
    The rest of them are ho-hum, impractical, slow, and nobody wants them. This is not the 80's or 90's anymore.

    Ex:
    Celica (dead)
    Eclipse (dead yet?)
    Accord Coupe (when's the last time anyone has seen one on the road?)
    Civic Coupe (no sale, no cha-ching)
    S2000
    RX-8 (even the Tribeca outsells this one...)
    etc...

    Honestly, let's see a show of hands of those folks who would actually SERIOUSLY consider buying this cramped, underpowered, "cute" little BRZ.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't understand all the excitement

    What excitement? :P

    I might look at the Scion if they do a roadster as promised, even with Subaru Bucks a Subaru without AWD is like non-alcoholic beer.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    You forgot the Tiburon which sold relatively well for years, but was retired this year too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Genesis coupe took its place, though, and has done OK, I think. Altima also comes in a coupe, too.

    Though I see it competing more with the Genesis 2.0T, Civic Si, Mazda 3s, etc.

    It will be a niche model, the problem is it is a huge black eye to Subaru's DNA. How they can pitch traction and "Symmetrical AWD" and now hype a model that has neither?

    This will sell to the drift crowd, so expect insurance rates to soar instantly. It will bring in a younger demographic, but one that won't necessarily remain loyal, unless the next WRX also comes without ... I can't even say it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob found this one:

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Subaru-Forester-2.0D-XS-NavPlus/- - 258988/

    Beats the Prius 0-60 and just about matches the MPG, too, all in a much more useful and attractive package. 6 speed manual + AWD is a bonus.

    The old boxer diesel did not meet CARB emissions standards, but I'm not sure about this one, and the article doesn't mention it.

    As for price, base models here cost $21,220 here in the USA and £21,375 there, so forget exchange rates, use roughly the same numbers. That would put a fully loaded diesel with Nav at around $29k.

    Better yet, they could offer a still well-equipped mid-level volume model for $26-27k or so.

    In a world where a Cruze can hit $25k and a Sonata can hit low $30s, I think that could sell well.

    What say ye?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,706
    Aye!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's a UK article aimed at that audience, so there's no reason for them to mention CARB.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, but I wish they did!

    Doesn't sound like emissions updates, FWIW.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,706
    *sigh* I just read the article, and I would buy one of those in a heartbeat. As it is, there is very little chance my next car (a personal commuter) will be a Subaru, simply on the aspect of fuel economy. But, I won't write off the '12 Impreza until I have a chance to drive it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The primary complaint on my Miata isn't fuel mileage, but rather range. Low fuel went on again today. It'll go on as early as 240 miles. It's all city driving, heavy traffic, small gas tank.

    I hope the diesel fuel tank is still 16.9 gallons. One thing that I *hate* is when a more efficient model's tank gets shrunk, which unfortunately happens a lot!
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,706
    edited September 2011
    Doesn't bother me at all, for some reason. It's probably because I drove the first six years with 1969 fuel-sucking beasts, and they were lucky (very lucky) to hit 250 miles on a 20-gallon tank. So, filling up every 250-300 miles is just fine for commute-type driving. For trips, that distance is more like 350-400 unless I'm hauling a heavy/bulky load (stuff on top, trailer, etc).

    I'd like to see the tank stay the same, too, since I don't see any rational reason to change it, but I wouldn't care too much (i.e., no deal breaker!) if it were changed.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    The WRX only gets about 250 miles/400km before I hit 1/4 to 1/8 tank which is my low limit for filling. That is all very short in-city commuting and averaging about 11L/100km aka 21.3mpg.
    Wes will relate that if it is winter and we have 2 weeks of -25 weather, that range drops to about 200 miles.
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