Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Re the post immediately above: Sure is not encouraging to see the crown jewel of the Subaru line with its mechanical innards spread over the floor and an open tech manual sitting on top of the motor.
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Went to my local dealer last night, expecting to drive a just-arrived VDC. But when we went to the service dept. to see it, the radiator was off, as was other hardware from the front of the engine, etc. Looked like a major project of some kind. Salesman saw it, told me this was merely the standard PDI process, and the car would be happily ready for driving today. Two questions:
    1. What does PDI stand for -- some kind of dealer prep after it comes in and before it hits the showroom?
    2. Has anyone ever heard of doing all this to a car just to clean it up and get it ready for showing?
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Hopefully the base models will finally get ABS.
    Dennis
  • tlbistlbis Member Posts: 25
    PDI = Pre-Delivery Inspection. I don't believe ripping out the radiator is part of this inspection, however.

    As with the introduction to any new model (applies to other industries as well) you have to assume there will be a learning curve for the service folks and a need to reference a manual.
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    I thought both the Legacy and Outback models share the same platform and chassis. Much like my OBS with the rest of the Impreza line. My OBS has the same lenght and width as any Impreza. It's only taller thanks to the 20mm raised springs and the roof rack. Yeah Subaru measures the rack as part of teh overall height too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe that was a technical service bulletin (TSB). Sorry for yet another acronym!

    More blondes in big SUVs? Maybe you notice because of all that hair, while guys just drive right by unnoticed? ;)

    Ed: should you wait for 2002? No. Those models are a year away and 2001 got all the improvements anyway. 2003 is the redesign, so either wait for that or get the 2001 now.

    Eric: don't blame Subaru for designing a vehicle for the way owners actually use them. Most low range-equipped trucks can't even use 4WD on dry pavement.

    Instead, look to the aftermarket to satisfy your (minority) tastes. Lovell in Australia makes 2" taller springs that folks there swear by. There are also lift kits, though those can cause tranny problems.

    Those springs and some knobby tires could do wonders. Besides, you know how many Wranglers were bone-stock at the Jeep Jamboree I attended? None.

    Don't stop there. The Aussies have built one up with swapped out front and rear bumpers, and it's a beast (yes, it has their low range, too). Check out the Yahoo Forester club if you're interested.

    Silly? For US customers that never go off road, yes.

    Paisan: to answer your question, I don't think I would have bought a low range back in '98, because I didn't realize I'd want it.

    But now I would. That would have been handy at the Outer Banks, no doubt.

    -juice

    PS I also thought the font on the Benz shifter was wierd, and also saw two "R"s.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Check out this 2WD Soob, more than holding its own:

    http://www.cyberconceptz.com/scoobysnack/4x2.htm

    Check out that suspension travel! 2WD!

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Scroll down to the OB Sport.
    http://www.autocaresubaru.com/picturegallery.html
    Dennis
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    FYI, I think I heard this morning on CNN that due to lagging sales (down 18% this year), GM announced that they will be shutting down or doing a major restructuring of the Oldsmobile division.

    Check this out about GM's future vehicles. If the next gen Cavalier is based on the Opel Astra, it may actually be decent. The current generation Astra ('98-'01) did well in Euro crash tests:
    http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/12/11/home_auto/q_mateja_gm/

    Drew/aling
    Edmunds.com Townhall host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They get those vastly superior platforms in Brazil. The Corsa and Astra are popular there.

    Problem is, they'll do the same thing they did with the Vectra and Omega.

    The Vectra was watered and weighed down and became the sales disaster known as the Saturn LS.

    The Omega was spoiled even worse, and the Catera bombed too.

    GM has to get that the old ways of cost-cutting are out. If they want younger buyers they have to think fun-to-drive, light weight, high-tech.

    Still, be glad you don't live in Brazil. My mom's trying to get a new car and even those mini-compacts cost near $20 grand.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I wish GM would send over the Holden Commodore as they have it in Australia. Re-badge it to Impala SS, then we'd be talkin! (rumor has it the commodore is rated up with the M5 over there)

    -mike
  • bg18947bg18947 Member Posts: 184
    It might come true with today's announcement of the end of the Olds line. Outback gets rebadged as the Subaru Vista Cruiser, GT Wagon becomes Cutlass Cruiser, GT becomes 442, Legacy becomes Cutlass, WRX becomes the Starfire, STX becomes the Custom Cruiser, boxer engine becomes Rocket 4 and Rocket 6. Delta 88 is the new AWD minivan with the new H-8 engine seating 8 people with 8,000 pounds towing capacity. No plans for the 98 configuration yet.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    While they're at it, they should kill off Pontiac and GMC too.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    4 cylinder boxer + 4 driven wheels + 2 seats = 442!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The only one on that list that I'd buy is the 442.

    Hey - what's the Forester become? Bravada?

    To SoA: we're JOKING! :o)

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Actually the new Bravada isn't bad, or at least its engine isn't bad. 4.2L 24v DOHC i6... yummy.

    -Colin
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Pre-Delivery Inspection. Its primary purpose is to give the dealer and distributor a chance to wrangle over whose fault it is your car was not delivered to your satisfaction. NO WAY is radiator removal part of a PDI. A guess would be that the factory found something wrong and is having cars fixed at the dealer prior to selling them. Another guess would be that that particular car had a problem - maybe the dealer employees were out whupping--- err, testing the VDC capabilities .

    In my experience the salesman may or may not have known he was lying to you; some of them need to be shown where to insert the key. You'll have to gauge that for yourself.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • kostamojenkostamojen Member Posts: 55
    "Ed: should you wait for 2002? No. Those models
    are a year away and 2001 got all the improvements
    anyway. 2003 is the redesign, so either wait for
    that or get the 2001 now."

    ??? Which model are you talking about?
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Consider our PP department shouted at. I don't think you have to worry. GM wants our horizontally opposed engine. It's not the other way around.

    Patti
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    The Pre-Delivery Inspection does not normally include the removal of the radiator. Unless....your dealer saw something they wanted rectified. Better now then later. Ask your Service Manager and I'm sure he'd be willing to explain.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    HAAA HAAAA

    Patti, you are funny! I guess a "good" service manager would explain it to you. Sorry bout that, but i've just had some bad dealer experiences and that makes me laugh! Although I can't complain to SOA about it even though it was a subie dealer cause it was when they were servicing my Trooper.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    5.7L, RWD, 17"x8" 45 series V rated tires, ABS and 6 speed manual!

    http://www.holden.com.au/sc02_vehicle_showroom/sc02_7_vxcommodore/sc02_7_4_ss/ss.asp

    Why can't GM bring that here?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Colin: 270hp, too. But I'm sure it'll guzzle gas and handle more or less like a bathtub half full of water, with dismal crash protection and even worse reliability.

    The previous Blazer also made the best power in the class when it came out, but turned out to be a flop.

    Steve: I was talking about the Forester.

    Patti: good to hear that. We'll soon have boxers making 165hp, 212hp, 227hp, and perhaps a special edition with more power (?), so the last thing Subaru needs is to borrow engine technology.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Juice-- Blazer sales were up considerably last year. Something like 20-30% IIRC, it's in the new Automobile. Anyway, let me just say that I disagree with your pre-emptive judgment and such behavior is also why some folks still think Subaru is a cheap, unreliable, gizmo-laden minor brand. (I don't.) Yes, plenty of GM products have been proven to suck. Some of them don't, and I think it's unreasonable to assume that the new Bravada (which will be the new Blazer) will suck.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    So long as they don't try to re-badge it as a Trooper it's fine with me, they can do whatever they want with it. Personally, the Blazers were way too narrow for me. My buddy and I would constantly be bumping elbows in his '94 Blazer.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sales may be up, but compared to its closest peer (Explorer), it never came close to realizing its full potential. The Grand Cherokee also spanked the Blazer, despite a much higher price.

    Good point, though. I'll wait 'til I drive one, then I'll say it sucks. ;)

    I wonder if the Bravada will ever actually be launched, given Olds is folding. 5 years, so I guess it still might.

    -juice
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    What's going one with Edmunds Townhall? I liked the old style better!!! =(
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    ...they're all broken! This format may or may not be better, but I'm having a heck of a time finding my forums again.

    Argh,
    -wdb
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    for one, it doesn't keep the topics I read highlighted (keep the "i've visited this link" color) so now I have to wade through the whole list to find the topics i want to read :( I also like the "preferences" section there are 2 prefereances... But at least maybe Bonnie will make our Isuzu area now! :)

    -mike
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Mike, To fix that, open each topic, select end of discussion, and select Town Hall, Owner's Clubs (at the bottom) to return the topic list. Painful but it works.

    Bonnie Rick is no longer with Edmunds (contract not renewed, she was a consultant). There was an announcement under News & Views, Talk to the Hosts.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    GOOD:

    I like the "Preferences" feature. I set it to "Alphabetical," and am able to add words to "Spell check."

    Larger area to type in messages.

    I like the "Edit" feature.

    BAD:

    The word "NEW" does not appear when there are new posts!! This is terrible!

    Still does not give you the ability to "Boldface" type, "Italic" type, "Underscore" type, change "Font" or "Size," or, add "Color" to type.

    Headings/Post numbers no longer stand out. I find it harder to follow because of this.

    "Spell check" does not follow format I typed. This makes it harder to follow.

    There is no "Bookmark" feature! Again, terrible!!

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the replacement for the Aura Integra, the RS, will have a choice of a 6-speed manual or a 5-speed automatic (presumably with "Sport-Shift" sequential manual shifting). A thinly disguised version, RS-X, will be on display at the Detroit Auto Show next month.

    All the more reason for Subaru to start offering 6-speed manuals and 5-speed automatics.

    Bob
  • plaaaaaneplaaaaane Member Posts: 32
    Most mfrs have lined themselves up with one of the two satellite radio providers for 02. Does anyone know if either will be an option for an 02 Sube?

    And I cant decide between a 6 cyl Outback or a Forester... need to get into heavy traffic fast.
    Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Probably whoever is doing the GM sats.

    -mike
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    I hate this new software. Change is necessary, but it's not always good...

    bah, I'm the Grinch
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I don't hate the new software, just the fact that it's not working the way it should. A car with this many bugs would be called a...uh....hmm... an Escape! ;-)

    Ross
  • yellowbikedonyellowbikedon Member Posts: 228
    Dave,

    I have an LL Bean model and can tell you the H6 engine allows the wagon to merge quickly and effortlessly. As you've probably read in other posts, the quickness "off the line" isn't spectacular (0-60 = 8.8) but once up to 3000 plus rpm, the wagon does move!

    I'm very pleased with the model and am glad I waited for the H6 engine.

    Don
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I have to agree with Don. Even though I've been somewhat critical of the H-6's acceleration, if I were buying an automatic, I would opt for the H-6. It's a very nice car; and quick, once you get the revs over 3000 ram.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    So it's begging for a manual transmission eh?

    That would be a pretty neat Legacy GT, a six speed behind the EZ30.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is that the designation for the H6 engine? Most of the subies are designated EJXX

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Yeah, Mike. They went with E-Z for the H6. I'm not sure why. Maybe
    to differentiate from the H4's??
    Dennis
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Told my dealer we might be interested in a DC for my wife. No and behold, a white one pops up on his lot (the only color my wife will tolerate). Is there a God in heaven? Or are these things a little more available than we thought? At any rate, we're going to drive it later today -- hope she likes it -- want her in a car with every single safety device I can think of. And of course, it has to be a Subaru.

    By the way -- anyone see the weekend newspaper article that mentioned an anti-SUB group in San Francisco? Seems one of their activities is to surreptitiously slap bumper stickers on behemoth Subs that read "I'm changing the environment -- ask me how."
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Don't even get me started on these so called Enviromental [non-permissible content removed]. When I was working at a power plant in NJ, they would come and protest outside of the plant every once in a while, and do you know what they were driving? You guessed it: HUGE SUVs and Big [non-permissible content removed] Caddys. We laughed our butts off, cause they were total hypocrites...

    -mike
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    Hmmmm, Chewy is doing a Silver ado with 4-wheel steering, according to CNNfn: http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2000/12/15/home_auto/q_mateja_truck/. If it works as advertised, might be a good feature for the bigger SUVs (Forester seems pretty nimble without it; in fact, since I don't have to factor in a trunk when backing up, I find the Forester easier to park than my old Mazda 626.)
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    1) I'd be concerned about the impact on load rating. Real trucks have solid rear axles for a reason...

    2) It won't help a truck drive like a car, it has to have a decent suspension to do that, and lower ride height certainly helps. It will make it easier to manuever, a good friend had a variety of Preludes with AWS and the '88 could do a uturn into the left lane.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    From GM, I'd be very warry of it as far as longevity. Honda is known for longevity, and even they had problems with it (thus it isn't sold anymore) It did work well I've heard.

    -mike
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Things sure slowed down on this chat room -- is it the new system, or just a lot of other things that need to get done? Whatever-- I'm hoping that I finally get my VDC test drive today after a week of trying (bad weather shuts down dealerships even if it doesn't shut down Subarus) Anxious to see if I think VDC is worth a $7K premium over a standard Outback.

    Unrelated subject -- I'm retiring; the office gave me a "scholarship" to Bondurant Driving School where I will learn to drive Mustang 900 MPH thgrough hairpins -- will any of this instruction be useful to someone who drives Subarus exclusively?
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Absolutely it will be of use! Besides, it's in Phoenix so if you go this winter the weather will be gorgeous. If you wait until summer... well, not quite as nice. ;-)

    There absolutely are things to be learned about individual cars to make them perform, but general driving skills can be honed in just about anything.

    -Colin
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Colin -- good info -- and gret pint about going to Phoenix in the winter. My wife has made the same point, and she plans to accompany as far as poolside at the hotel where she will sun, read, and wait for me either to get back from the course, or be brought back by ambulance.
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Counting down to my Winter Rally School.... :D
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