Steering-linked headlights! Sequential-shift tranny on the Impreza! Oh, I so hope we'll get these innovations in the U.S. too. Does anyone know how long the sequential-shift has been available on Subies overseas?
I love to change my own gears, but cruisin' roun' town would be soo relaxed without kicking the clutch.
I want those bumpers, grills, and spoiler for my silver beast!! I kind of like the wheels too. I hope some aftermarket bodykits ape these body pieces soon!!
Even though the 7-seat Subaru wagon hints a bit of Cadillac's new sharp-edge-crease styling, I like it. The whole car is made up of rounded triangles. I find it quite interesting. Way to go Subaru.
I like the Euro-Impreza's front bumper skin. It meets the lower edge of the front of the hood, thus eliminating that cheap-looking insert that currently resides between the the bumper skin and the hood. This is one (very) small change that makes a world of difference in terms of looks. All Impreza front bumpers should be so designed.
One of the items that never came to pass with the production H-6, is the positioning of the front axle that the Exiga H-6 exhibited.
If you look at the drawings of that engine, you will see the front axle exiting from under the engine, not behind it like all production Subarus. I wonder why Subaru opted not to include this feature.
The advantages of having the front axle exiting from under the engine is less engine overhang and better weight distribution. Less engine overhang translates into potentially a better angle of approach, which would improve the off-road worthiness of the Forester and BRAT. Better weight distribution could translate into even better handling.
Aussie RS & WRX. They mention that the WRX gets a power steering oil cooler, suspension tweaks, and a larger gas tank. I wonder if we'll see those changes too?
I really like the Subaru micro-car, the HM-01. I could easily see something looking like this replace the dated-looking Pleo or Justy. If you look closely, you'll see that it's a 4-door, with the rear door handles somewhat hidden, similar to what Nissan has done with the Pathfinder. I think the way the headlights, hood, logo, and front bumper work together visually is excellent. In fact, IMO, this is about the best front-end design solution I have yet to see from any Subaru.
As for the WX-01, I too think it's an excellent visual exercise. The whole vehicle comes across as an exciting shape.
And on the Isuzu front, I like the GBX, which "hints" somewhat of the ecto-skeletal school of design.
Ditto(bob), that Suzuki reminds me of the Renault Sport Spider, an incredible and good looking little car..they had their own race series like the Porsche Cup..check it out
I have long been a critic of the current "oval-with-stars" logo. I guess being a graphic designer, I'm somewhat sensitive to issues like this.
To me the current logo bears little reference to Subaru. It's much more a reference to FHI. For those not familiar with the symbolism of the logo, essentially the 6 stars represent 5 companies that merged to become one company, which is Fuji. So, it represents Fuji (the large corporation) just fine, but has little to do with Subaru—the car.
Having said that, I found this logo to be rather intriguing. Besides echoing the triangular theme of the car, it also proudly proclaims its Japanese heritage by using Japanese letter-forms (characters) in it—which is also intriguing...
For some reason, the Japanese car manufacturers are somewhat reluctant to proclaim their (Japanese) ancestry as a marketing edge. My sense is that Japanese car makers, because of WW II and their early success in "conquering" the American auto market, feel that this is a "liability" rather than a "asset." Well I'm not so sure I agree.
Certainly the German car makers are proud to proclaim their ancestry—which also includes WW II. I think the Japanese should follow suite.
I'm also fully aware that Infiniti tried that when they first came to market, and it failed miserably. The problem was that Infiniti tried to "force" the the Japanese aspect down the American customer's throat. Being "In-your-face" is hardly the "Japanese" way. If anything the Japanese marketing aspect should be "whispered," not shouted.
The Subaru logo that is presented here is for the Japanese audience primarily, hence the no-fear of using Japanese letter-forms. Frankly, I think they should go "global" with a logo similar to this.
I checked out the links you posted (thanks, BTW) and the logo you see on the WX-01 is not a new Subaru logo.
The WX-01 is a joint effort by Subaru, a design house called IDEA and a racing company called DOME. The Japanese characters you see on the triangular logo is the official logo for DOME, not Subaru.
There are three ways of writing in Japanese: Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji. The first two are based on a phonetic system (like the alphabet). You could, in theory, write everything in Japanese using either one of these systems (ie. write it the way you hear it). The third, Kanji, are characters that have been adopted directly from Chinese. Kanji is not phonetic. Instead, each character has it's own meaning and pronounciation. While Kanji can be complex, they have the benefit of packing a lot of information into one character (ie. prevents mix up of homonyms).
Modern day Japanese is written using a mix of the three. Typically, Kanji is used for major items -- nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs. Hiragana is used for articles and words unique to ancient Japanese. Katakana is used for foreign words.
Most every proper noun in Japanese has some Kanji equivalent behind it (including Subaru), but companies sometimes choose to not use the characters for stylistic reasons -- perhaps to allow the reader to make associations with the brand name beyond what the character implies.
In Japan, Nissan and Mitsubishi are about the only two companies that use Kanji to write their names. Most other companies, including Subaru, use Katakana. Isuzu uses Hiragana.
Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't suggesting that Subaru adopt "that" logo. Even though I can't speak/read Japanese, I did see the word "idea," so I was reasonably sure that the logo in question was "specific" to that vehicle, and not to Subaru as a brand.
What I was suggesting is that: 1) Subaru, in some fashion, suggest their Japanese ancestry in their product branding, and 2) that their current logo (product ID) is—besides being poorly designed and dated—bares little relationship to the cars they sell, and is need of a major overhaul.
I hope that you are not forgetting that "Subaru" is the Japanese name for the constellation in Orion that we call the Pleiades in English. The six stars(there really should be seven) are directly related to the Subaru name, not just the parent company(FHI). Pleiades is also known as the Seven Sisters although only six are normally visible.
Bob, don't forget that Subaru is also the Japanese translation of Pleiades, the constellation. Ever thought of going with a different badge? That STi grill (pink star) on Ed's Forester is going to look sweet. Then there's the pink rabbit as well if you fancy that.
If that's the case (Subaru = Orion in Japanese), then, no, I wasn't aware of that. I had heard the reference to Orion before, but I was not aware that the word Subaru was Japanese for Orion. Thanks for the clarification.
Let me be clear here, I don't have problem with using the stars as a key part of the logo, per say... It's still a poorly designed logo, and is due for an update.
No, Subaru does not mean Orion. Subaru means Pleiades which is a constellation located in (associated with) the constellation Orion. It's my day to be a good pedant. :~)
Great link! This really sheds a lot of light on the subject, and is very helpful.
Obviously stars "are" essential to any Subaru current or future Subaru logo. Having said that, the current logo is still very dated, poorly executed, and doesn't accurately reflect product. It's time for a an update.
I never understood why Subaru never banked on Legacy for their success from day 1. It is a great car.......Subaru should have come up with several trims as in outback to compete with cars like passat, audi......
The Outback cousin gets all the attention. Subaru says it is because Outback is more successful.
In my opinion, Had Subaru advertised Legacy as they did for Outback, it would have been more successful because Legacy is a value-leader.....
No 6cly option for years, Not enough model choice, no stock at the dealers, no engine options as in passat, audi, no color choice, no commercials etc. No one that I talked to ever knew of a car called Legacy...( I am in texas )
Think about legacy H-4, with VDC, AWD for 23-24k.....people would jump right on it !!!!!!!!
In fact Outback has hurt legacy....at least subaru let that happen witout giving legacy any advantage with a turbo or sth.
I think Blitzen can do to Legacy what WRX did to Impreza.....boost the image.....SUBARU IS MISSING SOME HUGE MARKET BY NOT BANKING ON LEGACY....LEGACY - AN UNSUNG VALUE LEADER !!!!!!!!!!!!!
True. I do agree that the Legacy has been an undermarketed vehicle. It's a fantastic vehicle and offers great value.
However, as a product manager, I can understand why Subaru chose to promote "specialty" vehicles such as the OB. Even with AWD, the Legacy competes directly in the mainstream sedan market against the likes of the Camry, Accord, Passat and now the Altima. Subaru is a relatively small car company and would be outgunned in advertising and distribution compared to a Nissan, Toyota or Honda. Also, don't forget that these vehicles are serious competition. Not only do they offer lots of features and value, but I'm sure they have much lower profit margins.
When you're the little guy, the strategy that makes the most sense is to secure a niche market and do it better than anyone else. I think Subaru has been extremely successful and smart in leveraging it's AWD expertise into the "outdoors" image offered by the OB, OB sport and Forester. The operational dollars spent here offer a far greater return than competing in a mainstream sedan market.
Now, we see Subaru using it's WRX to enter the resurging sport compact car market. Again, it's using it's AWD and rally heritage to offer a package like no other in a non-mainstream market.
If I were head of marketing at Subaru, I'd hold off on putting the Legacy head-on against the 500lb gorillas unless 1)Subaru's corporate strategy was to become a mainstream car manufacturer and 2)if AWD was in high demand for your average family sedan.
Yeah, but in order to justify some sort of trailering icon as part of their logo, Subaru would have to embrace "trailering" as as an essential element of what a Subaru is about. I kind of doubt that will ever happen...
Now, if I were Director of Product Planning, then maybe that could be a possibility.
I agree with a lot of things that you said (Ken).....but the issue is not whether Legacy should take just back seat to OB. The issue is why Legacy has been totally neglected.....for e.g. limited press advertising that Subaru does in Europe for Legacy can do so in the U.S
Becos...I feel that a lot of common folks out there do not even know that Legacy exists but a lot of them would buy if they know....
ALL I AM ASKING FOR SUBARU TO TELL THOSE FOLKS THAT IT DOES.......It will increase sales dramatically. Offer some decent model, engine, color choice etc....with.......limited advertising.
03 Trooper: Yukon chassis + Suspension, Isuzu V8, TOD, Isuzu Driveline, Isuzu body, and Isuzu interior. Boxier than the Yukon, more off-road prowess setup to take on the TLC
04/05 Rodeo: Envoy/Trailblazer chassis and suspension, isuzu v6 engine and driveline from the current trooper (3.5l TOD), Isuzu body, and Isuzu interior, setup with more off-road ability stock than the Envoy/Trailblazer
I don't expect the GBX to show up either, but it at least shows what Isuzu is thinking about. As I'm sure you know, these things are done to gauge public reaction. If the public reacts very positively, who knows... That's how the Prowler and Viper came to be. So don't give up hope just yet.
mike- Yikes! Sounds like the GM parts content in Isuzu SUVs is steadily growing. At that rate, in another couple of model generations, the Trooper and Rodeo will basically be just rebadged GM vehicles (Ala Mazda Navajo / Ford Explorer). I pray that doesn't happen to Subaru (shudder!!!).
You're right, but now I think Subaru is going to be too late to the gate. In January, I gave my brother a ride to a Toyota dealership in NJ to pick up his Sienna. I was in my wife's 2000 Legacy GT Ltd Rio Red, over a year old. The sales people at Toyota were swarming over the car even though it was covered in crusty road salt. These car salesman didn't know what kind of car it was, so you could imagine that the general population wouldn't know either. And, this was over after a year after deliveries started in late Aug '99. At this point, I think the Blitzen and B4s would be required and risky in the current market. With the new styling of the Camry and Altima, Subaru would be challenged by the current HP in these other vehicles. The Blitzen and B4 would probably cost $30K. Even though these other cars aren't AWD, the styling, size, and power overwhelm the current US Legacy available today. Besides twin turbos, Subaru needs to put some decent tires to replace the Potenza RE-92s. The AWD is useless when you have tires that have no traction. It's actually embarassing to see a FWD Honda Odyssey with Firestone Affinity and traction control get more grip than a Legacy GT Ltd with poor winter performing tires. I got a set of Blizzak MZ-01s after this event. I also bought an Odyssey to replace my Blazer after seeing for myself it's ability to drive in icy/crusty snow. The Legacy L is probably the best deal in the Subaru line up. They look pretty good in the dark metallic colors.
In a way, it's nice to have a less popular vehicle. They don't know what they're missing. But, then again, the people with BMW 330Xi's probably say the same. It all comes down to "How much are you willing to spend?"
Actually, it doesn't seem as bad as we had originally thought. I mean how much content is in the frame and chassis. I was worried about the things that the General usually doesn't excel in such as fit and finish, body panels, paint, 4wd systems, engine technology, and overall quality.
But SOA and FHI should definitely take a good hard look @ the Suzuki and Isuzu makes and try to put off any deep entrenchment of GM into their stuff.
At the rate the Trooper has gotten re-makes, after the 2003 make-over, there won't be another one until 2013. It's on a roughly 10-year makeover lifespan
Isuzu may have had long model lifes in the past, but I doubt that will hold true in the future. Most (not all, but most) cars and SUVs seem to be on a 5 -6 year product life. Pickups are longer, but I think those will shorten too.
Why? Too much competition these days. Anything beyond 6 years is an eternity. Products with overly long life spans will become out of date (and favor) much more easily than those that keep fresh with major makeovers every 5 or so years.
Do they really need to update a car every single year? I'm sure that helps contribute to the rise in prices. If they only re-did a car every other year it would be more cost effective IMHO.
change every year (aside from minor updates), but I think major overhauls every 5 years will become the norm for SUVs and pickups in the future. It already is for cars.
Comments
-Colin
I love to change my own gears, but cruisin' roun' town would be soo relaxed without kicking the clutch.
--Bart
Dennis
Droolin' in Seattle,
Stephen
PS...don't forget to wipe up the drool!
Don't get too excited. I doubt those headlights would be DOT legal.
-juice
Stephen
I like the Euro-Impreza's front bumper skin. It meets the lower edge of the front of the hood, thus eliminating that cheap-looking insert that currently resides between the the bumper skin and the hood. This is one (very) small change that makes a world of difference in terms of looks. All Impreza front bumpers should be so designed.
Bob
-juice
--Bart
http://www.subaru.net/prototype/exiga.html
Dennis
-mike
Dennis
-mike
If you look at the drawings of that engine, you will see the front axle exiting from under the engine, not behind it like all production Subarus. I wonder why Subaru opted not to include this feature.
The advantages of having the front axle exiting from under the engine is less engine overhang and better weight distribution. Less engine overhang translates into potentially a better angle of approach, which would improve the off-road worthiness of the Forester and BRAT. Better weight distribution could translate into even better handling.
How come Subaru?
Bob
What's the hp on 240 ps? Isn't that only a little more or less than 240 hp?
Dennis
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=35313&dm=yes
Bob
I really like the Subaru micro-car, the HM-01. I could easily see something looking like this replace the dated-looking Pleo or Justy. If you look closely, you'll see that it's a 4-door, with the rear door handles somewhat hidden, similar to what Nissan has done with the Pathfinder. I think the way the headlights, hood, logo, and front bumper work together visually is excellent. In fact, IMO, this is about the best front-end design solution I have yet to see from any Subaru.
As for the WX-01, I too think it's an excellent visual exercise. The whole vehicle comes across as an exciting shape.
And on the Isuzu front, I like the GBX, which "hints" somewhat of the ecto-skeletal school of design.
Bob
http://www.debcom.be/cabriault/spider.htm
Bob
-Colin
http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/auto24.cgi?source=issue/2001/1018/nsh_kt1018_22_08.html
I have long been a critic of the current "oval-with-stars" logo. I guess being a graphic designer, I'm somewhat sensitive to issues like this.
To me the current logo bears little reference to Subaru. It's much more a reference to FHI. For those not familiar with the symbolism of the logo, essentially the 6 stars represent 5 companies that merged to become one company, which is Fuji. So, it represents Fuji (the large corporation) just fine, but has little to do with Subaru—the car.
Having said that, I found this logo to be rather intriguing. Besides echoing the triangular theme of the car, it also proudly proclaims its Japanese heritage by using Japanese letter-forms (characters) in it—which is also intriguing...
For some reason, the Japanese car manufacturers are somewhat reluctant to proclaim their (Japanese) ancestry as a marketing edge. My sense is that Japanese car makers, because of WW II and their early success in "conquering" the American auto market, feel that this is a "liability" rather than a "asset." Well I'm not so sure I agree.
Certainly the German car makers are proud to proclaim their ancestry—which also includes WW II. I think the Japanese should follow suite.
I'm also fully aware that Infiniti tried that when they first came to market, and it failed miserably. The problem was that Infiniti tried to "force" the the Japanese aspect down the American customer's throat. Being "In-your-face" is hardly the "Japanese" way. If anything the Japanese marketing aspect should be "whispered," not shouted.
The Subaru logo that is presented here is for the Japanese audience primarily, hence the no-fear of using Japanese letter-forms. Frankly, I think they should go "global" with a logo similar to this.
Bob
I checked out the links you posted (thanks, BTW) and the logo you see on the WX-01 is not a new Subaru logo.
The WX-01 is a joint effort by Subaru, a design house called IDEA and a racing company called DOME. The Japanese characters you see on the triangular logo is the official logo for DOME, not Subaru.
http://www.dome.co.jp/
Quick lesson in Japanese writing:
There are three ways of writing in Japanese: Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji. The first two are based on a phonetic system (like the alphabet). You could, in theory, write everything in Japanese using either one of these systems (ie. write it the way you hear it). The third, Kanji, are characters that have been adopted directly from Chinese. Kanji is not phonetic. Instead, each character has it's own meaning and pronounciation. While Kanji can be complex, they have the benefit of packing a lot of information into one character (ie. prevents mix up of homonyms).
Modern day Japanese is written using a mix of the three. Typically, Kanji is used for major items -- nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs. Hiragana is used for articles and words unique to ancient Japanese. Katakana is used for foreign words.
Most every proper noun in Japanese has some Kanji equivalent behind it (including Subaru), but companies sometimes choose to not use the characters for stylistic reasons -- perhaps to allow the reader to make associations with the brand name beyond what the character implies.
In Japan, Nissan and Mitsubishi are about the only two companies that use Kanji to write their names. Most other companies, including Subaru, use Katakana. Isuzu uses Hiragana.
Ken
Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't suggesting that Subaru adopt "that" logo. Even though I can't speak/read Japanese, I did see the word "idea," so I was reasonably sure that the logo in question was "specific" to that vehicle, and not to Subaru as a brand.
What I was suggesting is that: 1) Subaru, in some fashion, suggest their Japanese ancestry in their product branding, and 2) that their current logo (product ID) is—besides being poorly designed and dated—bares little relationship to the cars they sell, and is need of a major overhaul.
Bob
-Frank P.
Ross
Bob, don't forget that Subaru is also the Japanese translation of Pleiades, the constellation.
Ever thought of going with a different badge? That STi grill (pink star) on Ed's Forester is going to look sweet. Then there's the pink rabbit as well if you fancy that.
Dennis
Let me be clear here, I don't have problem with using the stars as a key part of the logo, per say... It's still a poorly designed logo, and is due for an update.
Bob
Bob
Ross
http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/corp/<
Bob
What have you started here? :-)
Got your point about the fact that you were suggesting a new logo. I agree too -- the logo could use a bit of a freshining up.
Here's a link to an interesting page I found about the Japanese folklore behind "Subaru":
http://www2.gol.com/users/stever/subaru.htm
Thought it would make for some interesting reading under a clear autumn night.
Ken
Ross
Obviously stars "are" essential to any Subaru current or future Subaru logo. Having said that, the current logo is still very dated, poorly executed, and doesn't accurately reflect product. It's time for a an update.
Bob
The Outback cousin gets all the attention. Subaru says it is because Outback is more successful.
In my opinion, Had Subaru advertised Legacy as they did for Outback, it would have been more successful because Legacy is a value-leader.....
No 6cly option for years,
Not enough model choice,
no stock at the dealers,
no engine options as in passat, audi,
no color choice,
no commercials etc.
No one that I talked to ever knew of a car called Legacy...( I am in texas )
Think about legacy H-4, with VDC, AWD for 23-24k.....people would jump right on it !!!!!!!!
In fact Outback has hurt legacy....at least subaru let that happen witout giving legacy any advantage with a turbo or sth.
I think Blitzen can do to Legacy what WRX did to Impreza.....boost the image.....SUBARU IS MISSING SOME HUGE MARKET BY NOT BANKING ON LEGACY....LEGACY - AN UNSUNG VALUE LEADER !!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS A BIG MISTAKE !
-Frank P.
However, as a product manager, I can understand why Subaru chose to promote "specialty" vehicles such as the OB. Even with AWD, the Legacy competes directly in the mainstream sedan market against the likes of the Camry, Accord, Passat and now the Altima. Subaru is a relatively small car company and would be outgunned in advertising and distribution compared to a Nissan, Toyota or Honda. Also, don't forget that these vehicles are serious competition. Not only do they offer lots of features and value, but I'm sure they have much lower profit margins.
When you're the little guy, the strategy that makes the most sense is to secure a niche market and do it better than anyone else. I think Subaru has been extremely successful and smart in leveraging it's AWD expertise into the "outdoors" image offered by the OB, OB sport and Forester. The operational dollars spent here offer a far greater return than competing in a mainstream sedan market.
Now, we see Subaru using it's WRX to enter the resurging sport compact car market. Again, it's using it's AWD and rally heritage to offer a package like no other in a non-mainstream market.
If I were head of marketing at Subaru, I'd hold off on putting the Legacy head-on against the 500lb gorillas unless 1)Subaru's corporate strategy was to become a mainstream car manufacturer and 2)if AWD was in high demand for your average family sedan.
Ken
Now, if I were Director of Product Planning, then maybe that could be a possibility.
Bob, a.k.a Ditto (or is it Ditto, a.k.a. Bob?)
Bob
Becos...I feel that a lot of common folks out there do not even know that Legacy exists but a lot of them would buy if they know....
ALL I AM ASKING FOR SUBARU TO TELL THOSE FOLKS THAT IT DOES.......It will increase sales dramatically. Offer some decent model, engine, color choice etc....with.......limited advertising.
Currently the rumors for Isuzu are:
03 Trooper: Yukon chassis + Suspension, Isuzu V8, TOD, Isuzu Driveline, Isuzu body, and Isuzu interior. Boxier than the Yukon, more off-road prowess setup to take on the TLC
04/05 Rodeo: Envoy/Trailblazer chassis and suspension, isuzu v6 engine and driveline from the current trooper (3.5l TOD), Isuzu body, and Isuzu interior, setup with more off-road ability stock than the Envoy/Trailblazer
-mike
Ken
Bob
-Frank P.
In a way, it's nice to have a less popular vehicle. They don't know what they're missing. But, then again, the people with BMW 330Xi's probably say the same. It all comes down to "How much are you willing to spend?"
But SOA and FHI should definitely take a good hard look @ the Suzuki and Isuzu makes and try to put off any deep entrenchment of GM into their stuff.
At the rate the Trooper has gotten re-makes, after the 2003 make-over, there won't be another one until 2013. It's on a roughly 10-year makeover lifespan
-mike
Why? Too much competition these days. Anything beyond 6 years is an eternity. Products with overly long life spans will become out of date (and favor) much more easily than those that keep fresh with major makeovers every 5 or so years.
Bob
Do they really need to update a car every single year? I'm sure that helps contribute to the rise in prices. If they only re-did a car every other year it would be more cost effective IMHO.
-mike
Bob