A block heater is an electrical unit that plugs into the engine block. In very cold weather, one connects the heater to an electrical outlet. This keeps the oil from getting too thick/freezing. They can be useful in providing easier starting and less startup wear in very cold climates. In Boston? I would say the need is marginal at best.
You don't need a battery warmer or engine block heater anywhere near Boston. Northern Vermont, Northern New Hampshire or Maine maybe, not Boston.
A battery warmer is a sort of "electric blanket" that you wrap around the battery permanently and then plug into a 110 Volt AC outlet overnight for a bit of heat to ease starting in sub-zero weather. A battery in good condition will do just fine without one.
An engine block heater also needs to be plugged into an outlet overnight. It slightly warms the oil and water in the block to aid starting in sub-zero conditions.
It is extremely rare that weather in Boston is that cold. Perhaps 2 or 3 days a year. Relax.
Stopped by the Land Rover dealer (or should I say "Outfitter?") in Rockville MD today to check out the new Freelander. They had three that I saw, one base-level ($26.9K) and two mid-level ($30K) SE models on display.
I haven't studied the brochure yet, but from what I saw, my initial reaction is the base model makes the most sense. If you want leather, then go for the SE. The vehicles were nice, but nothing outstanding as far as I could see. Still typically British quirky in some respects: the inside hood release is on the wrong side for America...
Didn't get to drive one, so I can't comment on that aspect. I wish it had a 3.0L engine, instead of the 2.5L, considering the competition it will have to face.
The dealer really pushes the Land Rover "experience." There was a rack of white-water rafting, and kayaking tour brochures; plus other outdoor activity brochures. A TV playing images of Land Rovers doing off-road stuff, clothing, etc.
Chuck- are you listening? I was far less impressed with the sales person. He was a nice enough person, but knew absolutely nothing about Subarus (and admitted it). Again, his "push" was more on the "Land Rover experience," and less on the vehicle itself. Clearly he was selling "image."
If Land Rover plans to convert any Subie owners, they better get people who know something about Subarus, and not just Jeeps or X-5 BMWs. I also got a sense of "snobbishness" from the way he spoke. It was almost as if Subaru shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as a Land Rover. I was trying to get him to compare a Forester with a Freelander, from a function standpoint (not an image standpoint), and he just couldn't make the connection. That was a real turn-off.
Speaking of Jeeps, he was telling me that the new Freelander is a much better off-roader than the new Liberty. No way am I going to believe that...
They're completely different vehicles. The Freelander, I believe, was already on sale in Europe when Ford bought Land Rover. The only thing they share is a similar profile, as does an Accord with a Camry.
I didn't care for the door arm rests. They look like they came straight from a 1950s sedan; very cheap and down-market looking.
Bob, in case you haven't noticed, with Rovers image is the whole bag of nuts. Their whole purpose in life is to provide cars to take to the country club on sat and church on sunday to show off to the other suburban rich folk who flee the city after work. Or for the uptown people to drive up to VT to go skiing in the winter and take their kids to soccor practice in. It doesn't really matter if they are better offroad than anything, it's the image that they are that counts.
Interesting to note that "all" Land Rovers, Range Rover included, have only a 1650 pound unbraked trailer restriction.
I'm, glad to see that Land Rover clearly lists that info on the spec-page in their brochures. It's not hidden behind an "*" or a "refer to your owner's manual for further info" disclaimer. I'm also glad to see Land Rover list tow limits for both high and low ranges as well as the tow limit for both on and off road. I don't think any other manufacturer, that I'm aware of, that lists that info in their sales brochures. That excellent!
when do you think Patti will let the cat out of the bag? I say no later than Friday Dec. 14.
The press viewing for the Detroit Auto Show is around Jan. 6th., and they've got to get some lead publicity out ahead of time. You can forget about anything getting done Christmas week, so I say the 14th. That gives them some lead time.
Not true. The Escape and Tribute are based on the same platform. The Freelander is not part of that platform. Any review that says that those three reside on the same platform is flat out wrong. I'm sure we will hear from Chuck (tincup47) to confirm this. He works for Land Rover USA.
I still think you should be beware, however. After all, it is v.1.0 (at least for the USA)...
You are right, you will hear from me. sweet_subie, there are no parts shared with Freelander and Escape-Tribute. The Freelander as it is right now was developed when BMW owned Land Rover. I think you need to cancel your subscription to whatever magazine you got that from. If you got it from the internet, I wouldn't trust that source anymore. As with most import manufacturers in the U.S., trailer towing limits are set with the increased liability risk in mind. Most imports do not have the dollars to risk on lawsuits over something that they have such limited control over, as trailers have so much variation. So they post what are probably conservative numbers. Bob, your experience at the retailer was probably due to the fact that this is totally new ground for all of our personnel. I can assure you that Subaru's are held in high regard by Land Rover, but primarily as an on-road or bad weather vehicle. All manufacturers (including Subaru)use image to sell vehicles, we are not unique in that regard. We do like to think that ownership of a Land Rover can be a special experience, and work hard to make that happen. Most of us also realize that people buy SUV's for different purposes and publish a guide that tries to help people decide what vehicle is best for them. Of course we hope they choose a Land Rover, but realize the vehicles are not for everyone. Paisan, I can assure you that off-road ability has been and hopefully will continue to be a priority at Land Rover.
Oh they are *great* offroad, don't get me wrong. But 98% of the people that buy them are not buying them for offroad use or for the image of being offroad savy. It's for the country club image they promote.
Thanks for the follow-up. As to the Forester vs. Freelander: my experience with this salesman indicates is that there is little "practical" value in opting for a Freelander over the Forester. Both are meant to be mainly "foul-weather" and mostly on-road vehicles. If I wanted more towing capacity (which I do, but most others probably don't) or a bit more off-road capability (key word "bit"), then the Freelander makes sense.
I guess what I'm saying, "most" Subie owners don't really aspire to drive a "designer label" vehicle, such as Land Rover. It could be a tough sell for Land Rover to make conquest sales.
You're right about every brand using image to sell products. It just seems that Land Rover takes that to an extreme. Walking into that dealership I wasn't sure if it was a car dealer, or a Banana Republic store...
I have found that there is more than a bit more off-road worthiness in the Freelander, although it doesn't look like it on paper. I have personally taken Freelander on a course I would not have considered taking my Forester on. As far as other practical concerns, you could make that argument for any of the small SUV's. I don't expect with the small number of vehicles that are going to be available that there are going to be many conquest sales of any brand by our vehicle, except by people who want an SUV with European rather than U.S. or Japanese influences.
On a Yahoo STX-Club message board somebody said that the new STX is going to be called the "Baja". The reliability of this info is completely unknown at this time but here is the link to the page to see for yourself.
I hope not. Only because that would mean that the Edmunds Crew was "out-scooped".
I remember before the WRX was launched, there was an i-clubber/Sube salesman that was at a photo unveiling of the WRX. He had pictures of it from the internet and told the presenter that he had already seen it.
"BAJA" was mentioned on our name-the-BRAT NOT and Patti only said someone was very warm... Hmmm... on the otherhand, I think it is called "BAJA". I didn't see the probable picture, but I'm beginning to see what I think I'm seeing. Cues: #1 Built in Indiana = It's a Location/Place #2 Someone on the board = name is on the list & #3 is very warm = temperature (say desert temp.).
Put them together and ...
So, Patti, how close am I with my left0field analysis?
They used to have a Baja version of the S-10 pickup. Kinda like the ZR2 or the Z71 off-road packages available now. Except it also came with a net in the back instead of a tailgate, factory pre-runner bars and KC highlight lights mounted in the front, and some special rims. Kinda like the Lightning and the STX versions of Ford Pickups.
A 3 door hatch is not consistent with moving upscale in terms of image. I like them, but it would cheapen the brand and make a near luxury sale more difficult. I know VW breaks this rule, but Piech is just a little crazy.
I say get he WRX STi and build a coupe, then call it the SVX and sell it for $30k. Instant halo car.
Escape/Tribute are based on a modified 626 platform, while using Ford's Durtec engine and CD4E tranny. Totally distinct from the Freelander.
wants to make larger inroads in Europe. They've publicly stated that. Having a 3 & 5-door hatch would help greatly, as they are vastly popular over there—especially in the market segment that the Impreza competes in. They've already got the 5-door, which is how the wagon is marketed over there. It's not called or marketed as a wagon but as a 5-door hatch.
It's not just VW, most, if not all the major European brands offer 3 & 5 door hatches over there. We only see the VWs, because that's all that's imported here.
Also in the current edition of Automotive News, there is an article stating that hatchbacks are making a comeback here in the USA. Unfortunately the link isn't working properly, or I would have posted it here.
For Europe, OK. But for the US, they'd be better off bringing only the high performance variant, and then selling it in limited numbers.
I'd like to see the production car based off their latest small concept, which was neat.
Since we just found out the wife is pregnant, this topic becomes more and more important to me with each passing day. I can't wait to see the STX and Forester.
What could differentiate X-Trail from Xterra? They are similar in size and specs. Yes they're totally different structurally but the average consumer doesn't know.
Nissan North America designed Xterra as specific to our market, so I doubt they'd risk the cost of brining a very similar model. Toyota is doing that throughout their SUV lineup but Nissan is much weaker financially.
Still it would be great - it seems like an awesome little sportwagon!
We just had our little annual auto show here in Austin, Tx, last weekend. Subaru had a pretty good presence, displaying the Outback Sport, WRX, the rarely seen (around here, at least) Outback Sedan, Legacy GT Sedan and an LL Bean Outback. The 2002 Outback Sedan was very sweet piece of machinery; though the lack of a split folding rear seat would keep it from being a perfect substitute for my Forester, even if I had the spare cash.
My girlfriend, who went with me to the show, discovered that she actually liked the Outback Sport, which I've been trying to steer her toward for a while now, since it'd fit her needs pretty well. She hadn't find previous models attractive, but the 2002 was fairly appealing to her.
She was also rather taken with the Protege5. I don't think the wagon version looks as nice as the Protege sedan, but it does have very clean lines. She was also taken with the PT Cruiser, which I can understand since it is a really nifty looking car. But, even though their reliability has apparently been pretty good for a Chrysler, I was trying to steer her away from it because of the poor crash test results.
We split over the Toyota Prius. As much as I like the concept of the hybrids, I find the Prius dashboard layout a bit too odd, and the exterior just strikes me as unnecessary hunchbacked and squatty. The girlfriend was sure you'd get used to the dash layout (and she might well be correct), and she was more inclined to see the exterior as sort of ugly-duckling cute. We could both agree that the Honda Insight was just too dang low and small, though.
We got to play with the Avalanche's midgate. It worked pretty well, but I found myself wondering how securely that assemby would hold together in a bad wreck.
Also got to sit in the Mercedes G-wagen. It's so tall that it was like climbing up into a bus, albeit a very upscale bus. Not the prettiest vehicle at the show, by a long shot, but extremely solidly built; the rear tailgate felt like the door to a bank vault when you closed it.
I was annoyed that you couldn't sit in the new Ford T-Bird. They had one, but it stood on one of those spinning displays, so you couldn't even get very close to it. It's absolutely beautiful, to be sure, but one thing that really struck me, seeing it in person for the first time, is that, for a two-seater, it seems awfully long. A really large car for a supposedly sporty coupe.
I actually found the very prettiest vehicle there to be a Chrysler concept car, called something like the "Chronos." An impractical but gorgeous retro streamlined four-door torpedo. What Buck Rogers might've driven in the early 1940s.
And I found myself strangely drawn to the Saab 9-5 Aero. It has nicely crisp lines on the exterior, and I very much like the interior, quirky Swedish touches and all.
X-Trail is much more car-like than the XTerra, and IMO better equipped to compete with the CR-V and RAV4. Nissan should bring it. In Japan, it has been eating Honda's lunch.
XTerra is trendy, but beneath the surface it's an old, not-so-good pickup. I think the Forester outsells it, even. When the Pathfinder moves upward in size and price, they could sell only 4x4 and V6 or V6/SC XTerras, and leave the low end for the X-Trail.
How to differentiate? XTerras appeal to men, X-Trails to women. One is a car and the other a truck. Keep the X-Trail's price lower, and it would sell plenty. Down the road my guess is they would drop the XTerra.
Yeah, I guess it could compete with Forester, CRV et al. whereas XTerra competes with pre-cute Jeep (usually I see the "tough guy" type driving it around here). Of course the name must change or else it's too confusing.
I hope the new Forester will be ready to stand up to that challenge. A turbo would definitely do the trick :-)
The X-terra is all marking. It's the yuppie mobile. The rear seat is almost as small as the forester, it rides on an antiquated leaf spring rear end, has the hokie aluminu rack that holds 100lbs of gear, and that hump in the rear for the first aid kit is kinda dumb if you ask me. Not to mention a true off-road vehicle would never have the tire mounted underneath it!
I was seriously looking at the X-Terra when I was car shopping. The thing I didn't like about it was the gas milage and the fact it has an 'older' style 4wd where the tires have to scrub when turning sharply. Aside from the spare mounted underneath it, it is very off road capable. Plus they were brand new and dealers were asking more than MSRP for them.
I think the dual AC cooled storage boxes for soda cans is a great concept. They provide added versatility while costing little or nothing to include them as standard equip.
Don't think that the AC cooled box would be exactly freezing. So a beer not needing extensive cooling like an ale or dark beer would be most appropriate. TWRX
I also looked at the Xterra and the Frontier Crew Cab when I began shopping. Stopped looking even before test driving when the salesman basically said I was too old to be shopping the Xterra. (I was 36 at the time.) Have since been a passenger in a co-worker's Xterra and have absolutely no regrets.
paisan: It IS all marketing, but not so much "yuppie" as "Gen-X poseur" (why else include the X in the name?). Easy, I suppose, to imagine yourself road lugeing and base jumping as you sit stuck in traffic in your Xterra.
Comments
These are the listed accessories in the OB.
What is an engine block heater ?
Are they both useful enough in the cold weather, for me to buy & install them ?
Ross
You don't need a battery warmer or engine block heater anywhere near Boston. Northern Vermont, Northern New Hampshire or Maine maybe, not Boston.
A battery warmer is a sort of "electric blanket" that you wrap around the battery permanently and then plug into a 110 Volt AC outlet overnight for a bit of heat to ease starting in sub-zero weather. A battery in good condition will do just fine without one.
An engine block heater also needs to be plugged into an outlet overnight. It slightly warms the oil and water in the block to aid starting in sub-zero conditions.
It is extremely rare that weather in Boston is that cold. Perhaps 2 or 3 days a year. Relax.
Bob
very nice !
Bob
Speaking of low range: I recently read (I don't remember where) that the new Porsche Cayenne SUV "WILL" have a low range.
Bob
http://www.drive.com.au/
I haven't studied the brochure yet, but from what I saw, my initial reaction is the base model makes the most sense. If you want leather, then go for the SE. The vehicles were nice, but nothing outstanding as far as I could see. Still typically British quirky in some respects: the inside hood release is on the wrong side for America...
Didn't get to drive one, so I can't comment on that aspect. I wish it had a 3.0L engine, instead of the 2.5L, considering the competition it will have to face.
The dealer really pushes the Land Rover "experience." There was a rack of white-water rafting, and kayaking tour brochures; plus other outdoor activity brochures. A TV playing images of Land Rovers doing off-road stuff, clothing, etc.
Chuck- are you listening? I was far less impressed with the sales person. He was a nice enough person, but knew absolutely nothing about Subarus (and admitted it). Again, his "push" was more on the "Land Rover experience," and less on the vehicle itself. Clearly he was selling "image."
If Land Rover plans to convert any Subie owners, they better get people who know something about Subarus, and not just Jeeps or X-5 BMWs. I also got a sense of "snobbishness" from the way he spoke. It was almost as if Subaru shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as a Land Rover. I was trying to get him to compare a Forester with a Freelander, from a function standpoint (not an image standpoint), and he just couldn't make the connection. That was a real turn-off.
Speaking of Jeeps, he was telling me that the new Freelander is a much better off-roader than the new Liberty. No way am I going to believe that...
Bob
why pay 30k for escape based ?
I didn't care for the door arm rests. They look like they came straight from a 1950s sedan; very cheap and down-market looking.
Bob
Bob
-mike
I'm, glad to see that Land Rover clearly lists that info on the spec-page in their brochures. It's not hidden behind an "*" or a "refer to your owner's manual for further info" disclaimer. I'm also glad to see Land Rover list tow limits for both high and low ranges as well as the tow limit for both on and off road. I don't think any other manufacturer, that I'm aware of, that lists that info in their sales brochures. That excellent!
Bob
The press viewing for the Detroit Auto Show is around Jan. 6th., and they've got to get some lead publicity out ahead of time. You can forget about anything getting done Christmas week, so I say the 14th. That gives them some lead time.
Bob
Freelander, Escape & Tribute are all based on the same platform...........read the magazine reviews..........
I still think you should be beware, however. After all, it is v.1.0 (at least for the USA)...
Bob
As with most import manufacturers in the U.S., trailer towing limits are set with the increased liability risk in mind. Most imports do not have the dollars to risk on lawsuits over something that they have such limited control over, as trailers have so much variation. So they post what are probably conservative numbers.
Bob, your experience at the retailer was probably due to the fact that this is totally new ground for all of our personnel. I can assure you that Subaru's are held in high regard by Land Rover, but primarily as an on-road or bad weather vehicle. All manufacturers (including Subaru)use image to sell vehicles, we are not unique in that regard. We do like to think that ownership of a Land Rover can be a special experience, and work hard to make that happen. Most of us also realize that people buy SUV's for different purposes and publish a guide that tries to help people decide what vehicle is best for them. Of course we hope they choose a Land Rover, but realize the vehicles are not for everyone.
Paisan, I can assure you that off-road ability has been and hopefully will continue to be a priority at Land Rover.
-mike
I guess what I'm saying, "most" Subie owners don't really aspire to drive a "designer label" vehicle, such as Land Rover. It could be a tough sell for Land Rover to make conquest sales.
You're right about every brand using image to sell products. It just seems that Land Rover takes that to an extreme. Walking into that dealership I wasn't sure if it was a car dealer, or a Banana Republic store...
Bob
Bob
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/subarustx
Stephen
I remember before the WRX was launched, there was an i-clubber/Sube salesman that was at a photo unveiling of the WRX. He had pictures of it from the internet and told the presenter that he had already seen it.
Dennis
Hmmm... on the otherhand, I think it is called "BAJA".
I didn't see the probable picture, but I'm beginning to see what I think I'm seeing.
Cues:
#1 Built in Indiana = It's a Location/Place
#2 Someone on the board = name is on the list & #3 is very warm = temperature (say desert temp.).
Put them together and ...
So, Patti, how close am I with my left0field analysis?
-Dave
Bob
Bob
-mike
Bob
A 3 door hatch is not consistent with moving upscale in terms of image. I like them, but it would cheapen the brand and make a near luxury sale more difficult. I know VW breaks this rule, but Piech is just a little crazy.
I say get he WRX STi and build a coupe, then call it the SVX and sell it for $30k. Instant halo car.
Escape/Tribute are based on a modified 626 platform, while using Ford's Durtec engine and CD4E tranny. Totally distinct from the Freelander.
-juice
It's not just VW, most, if not all the major European brands offer 3 & 5 door hatches over there. We only see the VWs, because that's all that's imported here.
Also in the current edition of Automotive News, there is an article stating that hatchbacks are making a comeback here in the USA. Unfortunately the link isn't working properly, or I would have posted it here.
Bob
I'd like to see the production car based off their latest small concept, which was neat.
Since we just found out the wife is pregnant, this topic becomes more and more important to me with each passing day. I can't wait to see the STX and Forester.
-juice
Besides VW, Ford has done well here with the 3-door Focus, and we know Honda's bringing over the 3-door Civic Si.
Bob
Bob
http://www.nissan.co.nz/nissa_bin/model_core.html?dealer=&id=11
Nissan North America designed Xterra as specific to our market, so I doubt they'd risk the cost of brining a very similar model. Toyota is doing that throughout their SUV lineup but Nissan is much weaker financially.
Still it would be great - it seems like an awesome little sportwagon!
--Bart
Bob
My girlfriend, who went with me to the show, discovered that she actually liked the Outback Sport, which I've been trying to steer her toward for a while now, since it'd fit her needs pretty well. She hadn't find previous models attractive, but the 2002 was fairly appealing to her.
She was also rather taken with the Protege5. I don't think the wagon version looks as nice as the Protege sedan, but it does have very clean lines. She was also taken with the PT Cruiser, which I can understand since it is a really nifty looking car. But, even though their reliability has apparently been pretty good for a Chrysler, I was trying to steer her away from it because of the poor crash test results.
We split over the Toyota Prius. As much as I like the concept of the hybrids, I find the Prius dashboard layout a bit too odd, and the exterior just strikes me as unnecessary hunchbacked and squatty. The girlfriend was sure you'd get used to the dash layout (and she might well be correct), and she was more inclined to see the exterior as sort of ugly-duckling cute. We could both agree that the Honda Insight was just too dang low and small, though.
We got to play with the Avalanche's midgate. It worked pretty well, but I found myself wondering how securely that assemby would hold together in a bad wreck.
Also got to sit in the Mercedes G-wagen. It's so tall that it was like climbing up into a bus, albeit a very upscale bus. Not the prettiest vehicle at the show, by a long shot, but extremely solidly built; the rear tailgate felt like the door to a bank vault when you closed it.
I was annoyed that you couldn't sit in the new Ford T-Bird. They had one, but it stood on one of those spinning displays, so you couldn't even get very close to it. It's absolutely beautiful, to be sure, but one thing that really struck me, seeing it in person for the first time, is that, for a two-seater, it seems awfully long. A really large car for a supposedly sporty coupe.
I actually found the very prettiest vehicle there to be a Chrysler concept car, called something like the "Chronos." An impractical but gorgeous retro streamlined four-door torpedo. What Buck Rogers might've driven in the early 1940s.
And I found myself strangely drawn to the Saab 9-5 Aero. It has nicely crisp lines on the exterior, and I very much like the interior, quirky Swedish touches and all.
X-Trail is much more car-like than the XTerra, and IMO better equipped to compete with the CR-V and RAV4. Nissan should bring it. In Japan, it has been eating Honda's lunch.
XTerra is trendy, but beneath the surface it's an old, not-so-good pickup. I think the Forester outsells it, even. When the Pathfinder moves upward in size and price, they could sell only 4x4 and V6 or V6/SC XTerras, and leave the low end for the X-Trail.
How to differentiate? XTerras appeal to men, X-Trails to women. One is a car and the other a truck. Keep the X-Trail's price lower, and it would sell plenty. Down the road my guess is they would drop the XTerra.
-juice
I hope the new Forester will be ready to stand up to that challenge. A turbo would definitely do the trick :-)
--Bart
-mike
-juice
Stephen
-juice
-Frank P.
TWRX
-juice
paisan: It IS all marketing, but not so much "yuppie" as "Gen-X poseur" (why else include the X in the name?). Easy, I suppose, to imagine yourself road lugeing and base jumping as you sit stuck in traffic in your Xterra.
Ed