Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What, you're not going to criticize it for being assembled in Mexico?



    -juice
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    60's Italian automotive design..the 63 Ferrari GTO, Daytonas, 500 Superfast, Lamborghini Miura, etc...those were, and still are beautiful cars that spoke not just form but function...Next weekend is the Cavallino Festival in Palm Beach...Michael and I go each year...this year, we are again playing hookie on the 24th to go to Moroso for the track days...approximately 100 or more Ferraris at speed.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Those cars while beautiful had very limited function. Basically they were racing cars made street legal, especially the Ferraris. They were expensive to maintain and punishing to drive at normal speeds with creature comforts and practicality being close to non-existent.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I happen to like the retro concepts myself, but have a hard time with the Bel Air. While the 49 and T-bird and the Prowler and PT cruiser actually have styling cues that remind you of older vehicles, I just don't see anything on the exterior of the Bel Air that reminds me of Chevys of the past. The only retro styling I see in this vehicle is in the interior.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Bel Air is the ugliest of the retro-mobiles. The front is a photo copy of the Suzuki Esteem.

    -juice
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    True, they had limited functions, but they did those extremely well. I've been in some of the older Ferrari...quite comfortable, but low. Last year for Father's Day, Michael arranged a ride for me in a 550 Maranello with a Tubi exhaust sytem and competition wheels...man, did that thing fly...like a space shuttle launch!
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    1subydown...whatever their drawbacks I still love the '63 Ferrari 250GT Lusso - not the fastest but the prettiest:


    http://www.motorbase.com/picture/pid/35838707.html


    Ditto the early '60s Aston Martin DB4GT Zagato:


    http://www.astonmartins.org/astonpics3/db4gtz.htm


    Pity no one ever tapped the "heritage design" of the '53 Studebaker Starliner hardtop - yes, I'm biased - but then again no one likes to be associated with an orphan marque.
    Ed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Art in motion. Wonderful.

    -juice
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    Check my profile..look under dream car!
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I do agree Ferrari's (especially older ones) are some of the most beautiful cars ever made. I have a huge weakness for 50's-60's sports cars, would love to be able to own several myself.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like simple, small cars. Porsche 356 is a gem.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Yep, I wanted a 356 as a teen but some of them aren't so simple. Ever seen a four-cam Carrera? Anything with mulitple Webers will have you tearing your hair out. I had the opportunity in the early '80s to swap my Mustang for an Austin Healey 3000 and didn't, with no regrets.

    Ed
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    There are few things more satisfying that perfectly synchronizing a pair of SU carbs with just a screwdriver, an adjustable wrench and a stethoscope. I would then go to a seldom used road and do the final timing tweak by doing speed runs, twisting the distributor a degree or two and doing a second run, etc until I couldn't lower the time. I had the second fastest and definitely the smoothest running MGA in town as a result. :-)

    Ross
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Ross, you're a better man than I, or at least more patient. Now that I have the patience I don't have the time or inclination.

    Ed
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Ed, this will make you envious but there was a guy who lived near us in England, who would take his unrestored Aston DB4GT Zagato into town for the shopping most weeks. There is something improbable about an English country gentleman hopping into such a gorgeous car with half a pound of sausages and the newspaper.

    I never tired of admiring the beast.

    Mind you, it was that sort of town. Prince Charles lived on the outskirts and would drive his Aston through the main street, soft top down, on summer days. He likes his cars!

    Cheers

    Graham
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    When we lived in Norwalk, CT I would sometimes go into New Canaan Sunday morning. One morning, Michael and I saw Dave Letterman sitting in his Ferrari Daytona after buying a newspaper. We followed him for a while; he lived in New Canaan at the time.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Graham that would be quite the grocery getter. I'd be very happy with one of those DB5/6 shooting brake conversions, of which there are apparently only a handful.

    Edit: re David Letterman - I bought a lot of stuff (caps, t-shirts and a jersey) in the past from the Seattle-based maker of reproduction sporting goods, Ebbets Field Flannels. Letterman wears their jackets and caps during many taped segments of his show. When I asked them about his relationship with them, they wouldn't comment. Couldn't guess whether he is a customer or they're getting a lot of free product placement.

    Cheers,
    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Get a 1990-1993 Miata, and you can still adjust the timing manually. It was pretty cool to turn it and watch until the engine started pinging, and see how the change affected before and after measured runs.

    Shooting brake is a funny name. Remember the Geo Storm had that squared off hatch for a year or two? And now BMW offers one.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I believe Kammback is the proper term. How they come off is a function of how well they are integrated into the overall styling. The Geo Storm/Isuzu Impulse (paisan will correct me if I'm off on the Isuzu version) didn't work; neither did the Nissan Pulsar version. The coupe version of the Z3 doesn't work either; it looks like the automotive version of a Chuck Taylor hightop. On the other hand, the Volvo 1800ES sportwagon is one of the best looking cars ever IMO, and one I'd love to have in my dream garage. The later Aston shooting brakes don't look as well integrated as the DB5/6's and are even reminiscent of the homely Toyota Camry wagon of two generations ago.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Impulse didn't have the hatch option, I believe it was unique to the Geo clone.

    The Pulsar was an odd looking car. I've always had a soft spot for T-tops, though, because my dad had a Z28 when I was a kid.

    I drive by an MG Shooting Brake (forget the model name) every day. It's in perfect condition.

    -juice
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    It is an MGB (or C if 6 cyl) GT
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Immortalized in song by Richard Thompson. Funny but that's one I consider more of a hatchback than a brake/wagon type.

    I wasn't aware that the later Impulse didn't have the hatch. I did drive a Stylus with the Lotus-tuned suspension circa 1992 and remember being reasonably impressed.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My best friend (and Isuzu fanatic) owned a Stylus XS. It didn't have much torque, but revved high it would really get going.

    Before that is was a Chevy Spectrum (Isuzu I-mark clone), and after that a V6 Rodeo. He swears by them. All of them lasted well over 100k miles, and that's with all-out driving.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The original impulse was the WRX of the 80s. 2.0l turbo awd. It didn't make as much power but it's all relative. The other nice thing was the engine was in the proper (non-transversely monted) direction. The 2wd versions were RWD.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Trivia: what car was that Impulse based on?

    The answer will surprise you.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Wasn't the Impulse based on the Opel or something like that?

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, the Chevrolet Chevette! Just the chassis, the engines were Isuzu.

    Detriot turned out few interesting concepts. Here are my comments on a few others:

    Vision GST: looks like another Pacifica clone. Yawn. Again, why 6 seats? Nose is too droopy.

    Space Liner: LOL, it's an EGG! 4 seats?

    SUP: should have called it SUX. Yet another Pacifica clone.

    Quest: ugliest van on the planet. Incongruent style, looks like 5 different people designed it.

    Solistice: actually, I like it. I liked the Salsa, too, let's see if GM finally produces something to compete with the MR2 and Miata. Replace the Sunfire with this. I like the fender vent, with the Pontiac logo incorporated.

    9-3X: boy, is Saab in trouble. They've become irrelevant. Who would buy this oddball?

    Saturn SCX: stoopid. 300hp 1.9l normally aspirated, yeah right. I guess the paint job gave it 150 extra horses.

    ccX: why does Toyota think young people want ugly cars? It's a Citroen on the outside, a i-Mac on the inside, and ugly all over. Keep only the good ideas, like the washable interior with drain holes.

    Magellan: Look! It's R2D2 stuck on the back of that beast! ;-)

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    paisan: Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the first-gen Impulse's styling based on a Giugiaro study that VW rejected for the second-gen Scirocco? I seem to recall that from my VW days.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it was Giugiaro-designed. I'm not sure about the VW link.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    for the "Most Weird," I'm sure the Baja would have been a contender...


    Bob

    http://www.auto.com/2002show/show17_20020117.htm

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is a stunner! It now really looks to be part of the current C and S Class families. The last two generations of E-Class, while certainly excellent cars, were, IMO, dull, dull, DULL to look at.

    Also mentioned, is that the new Forester is to be released In February. Does that mean it will be on sale in Japan then?

    Bob

    http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0201/17/b04-391921.htm
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm not sure if it was rejected by VW. Could have been, I've been lacking in my Isuzu-car history :( Was the chevette RWD or FWD?

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    I doubt it. What I've read points to a February unveiling and summer start of sales.

    --Bart
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lawrence like the Crossfire, too. He agrees with Bob about the significance of the Expedition. I also liked the G35, but I'm telling you the Autonomy is upside down!

    I think the Quest had the Most Weird award, or maybe the SUP.

    Remember we saw the E-class back when a spy photo caught one at the filming of Men In Black II? I liked it then and still do, but notice how the front resembles the Sonata a little?

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now I'm looking at these, some which we've already talked about:

    Arnage T: gimme a 90% cut in quality defects and price, and I'll consider it.

    XLR: I like it. Art & Science looks better on a roadster vs. the CTS sedan, but it's trendy. I liked the Cougar when it was new, and it got old pretty fast. It's risky to be trendy.

    SSR: V8, RWD, more practical than the Prowler, but still cool, and it has a real V8. I disagree with Bob, this will be one cool cruiser. I bet T-bird buyers will cross shop this.

    Magnus: looks like a Leganza with Civic coupes tail lights. Lame make over. Daewoo was GM's worst acquisition. 159hp 6-cylinder? Please.

    Expedition: wow, the thing even has coilovers! Stability and traction control? You can really tell who their target buyer is when the "off road" package includes rear climate control. It's OK, though, that's who buys these beasts.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'll let up on the SSR...

    I really like the vertical-storing folding hard top. I think that's an excellent solution—better than what MB and Lexus have come up with.

    The front looks cool too, and it does have a huge trunk, er... bed.

    Bob
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Juice... shhh! You'll hurt Grace's Villager's feelings! One thing to remember is the Villager/Quest has been around since '93, and hasn't changed much since then. Styling then vs. styling now has a lot to do with beauty as it sits in the eye of the beholder. We bought it because it was the right size at the right time, and it drove way better than any other minivan we tested.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I resemble that remark! ;-) When I saw the then brand new Camry wagon in '87, I told my wife we had to have one. I had always loved the Volvo 1800 wagon, and this was as close to the design theme as one could get. And it made a damn fine wagon to boot. By '90 the LE had ABS with the V6 and we bought one.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    IIRC, the Giugiaro design was called the Piazza and was a design study for VW but rejected. GM adopted it slightly to fit their T-car chassis (Chevette, late '70's rwd Isuzu I-mark, the Opal model sold in the USA by Buick, etc.).

    Steve
  • n8wvin8wvi Member Posts: 43
    Anybody know if they allow cameras into the auto show? I couldn't find any info about this on http://www2.naias.com/


    Thanks,

    Dave

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    NY Autoshow does allow cameras.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: I think it is a trunk if it has a hard shell cover. The folding top is cool. What if the Baja used a similar mechanism, working in reverse to open the mid gate? They could even position it like a huge spoiler! ;-)

    Paul: the original Villager was attractive for a van. Still is. I actually think the "face lift" made it look slightly worse. The concept is a bit over the top.

    Cameras are probably all over the place. I took tons of photos at all the shows I've attended. Wish I could see these in person now:

    Pilot: seats 8? Wow, and smaller than MDX outside means the wife may be able to drive it. Cons include VTM being part-time only, and lose the silver on the steering wheel, it's goofy. It's also very conservative, but boxy means roomy.

    Tib: nice. The show car had a racing steering wheel, with no air bag. That won't make production. Hyundai has to just keep the weight down.

    G35: very nice. RWD, Skyline based. Cheesy silver on steering wheel, ugly tail and tail lights. 6 speed and 260hp make that easy to forgive. I hope it's roomy.

    Wrangler Rubicon: locking diffs are cool. LSD works even when diff is not locked, and that is trick. 31" tires are still small, my off-roading buddies use 35"s. Also, why no 3.7l V6? That in-line engine is really long in the tooth.

    Ranger Rover: unibody, aluminum, DSC, BMW V8, HDC. So why does it look like a '70s model that was slammed by a teenager? Remove the lights and it looks 30 years old.

    -juice
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Land Rover was trying to combine styling influences today with the classic Range Rover. I think they carried it off quite well ( I do admit a certain bias though ;) ). I have seen it in person and it is quite a handsome vehicle, inside and out. To read about the New Range Rover and all the features and design history, check out www.rangerover.landrover.com
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It certainly looks classic. I'm not sure what I was expecting. I guess they want to keep the old world charm, but make it modern at the same time.

    I'd probably be whining more if they modernized it and made it look worse.

    The inside looks much better than the outside, IMHO.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Besides the locking difs, and larger tires, the big news is the 4:1 reduction in the low range transfer case. The normal Jeep low range reduction is 2.72:1.

    For some perspective, Subaru's dual-range tranny's low range reduction is something like 1.2:1., hardly a "low range" in the traditional sense.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    But don't forget it will still not be covered under warranty if you break anything while offroading with it as per Jeeps warranty. The rubicon looks cool but I'll bet they are going to charge an arm and a leg for it (30K, maybe more) and sell it in limited #s.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Anybody besides me think it's strange for the new Forester to makes its "world debut" in Toronto?

    I'm sure Toronto is a nice city (my dad went to college there), and the Toronto Auto Show is nice to visit; but it's hardly considered a leading auto show by international standards.

    Also, this show occurs around he same time as does the Chicago Auto Show, which is reportedly going to display the revised '03 Legacy. So Subaru is debuting two new models about the same time, in different cities; not exactly the best way to milk maximum publicity for two new (and very important) products.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Customers will be buying it for its off-road prowess, not for its warranty. Now customers can buy an off-the-shelf off-roader that needs little in terms of after-market upgrades.

    No word on prices or availability. I very much doubt if it will be $30K.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    A fully loaded one now is in the mid-20s IIRC. Lockers add significant $ Tires $ etc. etc. Basically it will have to cost $500 more than whatever it would cost to upgrade a fully loaded one, or else people would just do that.

    Also you still get that good old Jeep Reliability (or not):)

    -mike
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