Lease Questions - Ask Here

chrism123 · October 2001

Yes, I did purchase a 530i but have not taken delivery. The car has been ordered and is not expected in until another 30 days.

Thanks,
Chris

curtnheidi · October 2001

I am turning in my camry this week. The bank I lease from says I simply have to take it to a dealer and give them a call after I drop it off. They said not to worry about miscellaneous charges and they will not charge me if the residual amount is higher than market value.

My question is, what should I do to protect myself at lease end? The bank seems to make the process very simple. I am afraid of getting hit with wierd wear and tear charges. It is in excellent condition, only 31K miles, all maintenance records, so I don't think it will be a problem.

Any advice out there?

Thanks,
Curt

cupholder1 · October 2001

Car Man:

Thanks again. These figures are helping me decide on a car, believe it or not. Can you run by the numbers for the V6 02 Passat, no options, 15k miles a year, 36 months. Thanks again.

force98 · October 2001

Just curious--could it be dangerous financially if you prepay an entire lease, or make advance lease payments for months or years ahead? What if the car was stolen or totaled well before lease end? The insurance company would only give book value, and gap insurance would cover the difference to the payoff. But what about all the money you fronted? Would you not lose that?

force98 · October 2001

To protect yourself, you may want to take good photos of the entire car just before turning it in. Also, place a copy of the newspaper for that day on the hood and get a photo showing the date. This will prove when you took the photos. The photos will help in case the bank later charges fees for "damage" that you know did not exist when turned in.

bigshotla · October 2001

Does anyone know how the X-Plan works for leasing Land Rovers? The dealer we're talking to says that the residual value and money factor haven't been set yet on the Freelander  is he telling the truth? What are the usual money factors and res. values on a 36 month lease for Land Rover vehicles under the X-Plan?

Range Rover and Discovery res. values would be helpful too.

Thanks!

gschlact · October 2001

Hey Car man,
Question for you....
I've got lease calculation down pretty well, however, are there any Web based free tables showing the residual values used by financial companies providing leases on new vehicles? What about current MF's?
of interest on 36mos 36kmile 2002 leases:
1. ML500 Mercedes
2. X5 4.4
3. E430 Mercedes
4. MDX Touring no-nav Acura

thanks
Guy

PAman · October 2001

As force98 said, take photos of the car the day you turn it in.

I would also have the dealership fill out an inspection report certifying there is no damage to the car. It is a simple form, similar to the ones many rental car companies use when you rent a car. It will have a diagram on it that looks as if you are looking straight down on a car. On that form, have the person inspecting the car check off every area of the car as free and clear of any damage. This will protect you later in case any 'mysterious' damage occurs after you leave. Be sure and have the date and current mileage on the car listed on the report, along with the license plate number and the car's VIN. Then have the person doing the report SIGN IT. If there is no place for him to sign it, just have him sign it ANWHERE on the form. Please keep in mind that the form is useless if it is not signed by you and the dealer rep.

If the dealership claims they don't have any such forms, just tell him to use the same form he uses FOR EVERY CAR THAT COMES OFF THE TRUCK TRANSPORT THE MOMENT IT ARRIVES AT HIS DEALERSHIP!! In other words, if he tells you he doesn't have a form like that, he is full of crap. They inspect every single car as it comes off the transport trucks in order to make the transport company pay for any damage that occures between the factory and the dealership.

Are you getting the idea that they know how the game is played? Good; now you know how to play the game as well as they do.

As for the bank's comment about there being no charges "if the residual amount is higher than market value," that sounds very fishy. Check your contract carefully, particularly any section dealing with fees or costs due at lease end.

The terms should be very clear about any and all turn-in fees. If there is no specific mention of you being liable for any difference between the car's residual and its current market value, then you are not liable for any difference. The value of a used car is VERY subjective, and it would be easy for them to claim that the residual is much higher than the actual value, thereby trying to get you to pay the difference.

If they try that stunt, just refer to the language dealing with any fees due them by you at the end of the lease as specified in your contract. Chances are, the residual is ONLY used in case you choose to buy the car, NOT to determine how much they will try to soak you for at lease end.

Good luck!

Joe

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Aab, I really don't think that any one truck in the Luxury SUV segment really stands out as a great deal right now. All of the vehicles that you mentioned are very nice. The ones that are a little older or have prices that seem a little on the high side seem to often have lease support that helps offset those issues. If you were to lease a 2002 Lexus RX 300 right now through Lexus Financial services, you would have to use their standard lease money factor of .00270 for all lease terms. The LFS 3 year 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2002 RX 300 4WD w/the value package but without the Navigation System should be 58%. The 12,000 miles per year residual value for this model would be 60%. Unfortunately, Acura is not providing any sort of lease support on the MDX either. So if you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp. at this time you would have to use their standard lease money factor of .00250 for 3 year terms. The 3 year 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2001 MDX (non-navigation & non-touring) leased through AHFC should currently be a solid 61%. The 12,000 miles per residual value would be 64%. I have not seen the lease money factors and residual values for Land Rover recently. However, they are currently running a nationally advertised lease on this truck that would serve as a good reference point for your negotiations. Right now they are advertising a 3 year 10,000 miles per lease on a 2002 Range Rover 4.6 HSE for $899 per month with $3,500 down. I have a feeling that you will find this particular truck to be significantly more expensive than the previous two that we discussed.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Oops, sorry about that, dgraves1. You are absolutely correct. I should have worded my response more carefully and said that a leased vehicle's purchase price will not have any effect upon its lease-end purchase price. Thanks for catching that.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Ahhhh I see now. Thanks for the clarification, Chris. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what the current lease program for this car should look like. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW 530i through BMW Financial Services prior to October 31st, you should be able to use their 3 year base lease money factor of .00265 and a 12,000 miles per year residual value of 62%. I hope that this information helps you out. Remember that these numbers are only good through the end of the month and will likely be slightly different in November.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Hi again, Curt. I personally don't think that you have anything to worry about if your car is in good shape like you said it is. If you feel the need to protect yourself, I think that the best thing you could do would be to snap a few photos of your Camry before you turn it in, either with a regular or a digital camera. Take pictures of things like both sides, the front, back, interior, and even the tire treads with something like a coin in the picture so that one can tell the length of tread that is left. If you really want to be thorough, you can always put a copy of a current newspaper in one or two of the pictures to prove that you didn't doctor them. Still, I really don't think that you have anything to worry about, especially if you are leasing your car through a captive finance company like Toyota Financial Services.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

You're welcome, cupholder1. Here is the latest information that you're looking for. If you were to lease a 2002 Volkswagen Passat V6 Sedan for 3 years with 15,000 miles per through VW Credit prior to October 31st, you should be able to use their base lease money factor of .00180 and a residual value of 57%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Force98, I guess that I should read all of the new posts prior to responding, I think that we just said the exact same thing

.

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bigshotla · October 2001

Is there any way to estimate the residual value of the upcoming Freelander? Can we use the Discovery and Range Rover's resids as a guideline? If so - what would those numbers be?

Head is spinning.....

rroyce10 · October 2001

....... This is a very valid point when you drop the lease vehicle.

You need some pics --- and make sure when they do the "walk around on the vehicle" .. and they sign off on what's there ... make sure you GET the copy.

I have had up to 15/16 vehicles on my back lot waiting for Chase, Mellon, Key .. etc for 3/4/5/6 weeks --- a lot can happen, vandals, animals, weather .. you name it... it's not my Yob Mon to babysit them --- I'm not trying to be smart here, but you do have to protect yourself ...

I hope this helps ...

Terry.

akangl · October 2001

Can you give me the money factor and residuals for a 2002 Ford F-350 Lariat Diesel 6-speed crew cab long bed 4WD and also for a 2002 GMC Sierra SLE crew cab long bed 6-speed diesel 4WD. Both 36 month leases and 12K per year. Thanks.

iamaddman · October 2001

Hi Carman,

I am new to the board but have been reading a lot of good info. Would you happen to know what the residuals and money factors are on the following cars:

'02 Altima SE Auto
'02 Altima S Auto
'02 Maxima SE Auto

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks

PAman · October 2001

After reviewing my earlier post, I may have come across as if I am down on ALL dealers and leasing companies. I'm not down on all of them, just the ones that like to operate on the shady side of the law and take advantage of their customers.

Carman is right; most 'captive' finance companies operated by the car's manufacturer are upfront and treat customers according to the letter of the contract. However, some banks and non-traditional leasing companies have tried to charge customers for anything on a car that is not returned in showroom condition. There are some dealers, unfortunately, that play the game with them. I've heard of leasing companies sending bills to customers months after the car is returned for several thousand dollars in so-called damages and wear-and-tear items. Unfortunately, the car has been sold, and perhaps resold or may be hundreds of miles away. This makes it very hard for an honest customer to dispute these charges, and those that use these tactics know how hard and expensive it can be to fight them.

Whenever possible, I like to give credit to those operating fairly and refer customers to them. To those that don't, they deserve what they get!

Joe

drew37 · October 2001

I was recently considering using multiple security deposits in order to decease the monthly payment of a lease. I decided against this when I did the calculations and realized that the money I would save did not justify tying up the earning potential of a few thousand dollars, even in todays uncertain economic climate.

However, something that crossed my mind at the time seems to be relevant to # 2269 above, I guess because I am somewhat paranoid about car dealers in general. And that is, what if there were a dispute over so-called damages or wear-and-tear items (whether real or imagined) when I turned in my car at the end of the lease? It seems there wouldn't be much one could do since the leasing company already had a good chunk of my money. Is this something I should be concerned about or is my paranoia getting the best of me? I wonder how often something like this happens? Any comments would be welcome.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Hi Guy. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any source of lease data that is available to the general public. A company called ALG does provide residual value information on their Web site, which would give you a decent idea of approximate residual values for the vehicles that you are interested in. However, their values are usually slightly different than the actual residual values that captive finance companies use to calculate monthly payments. Not to mention the fact that I believe that they actually charge for on-line access to this information now. I would be happy to give you an idea of what the lease programs for the vehicles that you are interested in would be like right now though. If you were to lease a 2002 Mercedes-Benz ML500 through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. prior to the end of the month, you should be able to use their current base lease money factor of .00319 and a 12,000 miles per year residual value of 64%. The 2002 E430 actually has a little lease support on it right now that would reduce its MBCC money factor to .00270. It has a 3 year 12,000 miles per residual value of 63%. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW X5 4.4 through BMW FS prior to the end of the month the 3 year 12,000 miles per money factor and residual value should be .00265 and 64%, respectively. Lastly, if you were to lease a 2002 Acura MDX through American Honda Finance Corp., you would have to use their standard lease money factor of .00250 for 36 month terms. However, they just released the residual values for the '02 MDX a day or two ago and I haven't seen them yet. If I had to guess, I would say that the 3 year 12,000 miles per residual value for a non-navigation 2002 MDX leased through AHFC would probably be around 63% or so right now, but again that is just a guess.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Bigshotla, it would be next to impossible to figure out exactly what the residual value for the Freelander will be before they introduce it. Any value that I gave you at this time would be an absolute guess. I certainly would hope that this brand new model's residual values would be significantly higher than those that are currently available on the Discovery and Range Rover. The new Freelander may have residual values somewhere in the high 50%'s for a 3 year 15,000 miles per year lease when it first comes out, but again there is no way to say for certain what their lease program will be like right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

I would be happy to help you out, akangl. Traditionally, domestic full-size pickup trucks have sold very well and as a result have not received much in the way of lease support. Ford's lease program on the F-Series has never been very good, especially on the larger F-Series models. You may be better off leasing this truck through a bank other than Ford Motor Credit. If you do use Ford Motor Credit, I believe that you would have to use their standard lease rate, which is an ugly 9.9% for 3 year terms. The 3 year 12,000 miles per residual value for a 2002 F-350 Crew Cab Lariat should be somewhere in the area of 52%. The GMAC lease rate for a 2002 Sierra would be in the area of 6.75% and the 3 year 12,000 miles per residual value for all 2002 GMC Sierra Crew Cab models should be 50%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Iamaddman, I would be happy to provide you with an idea of what the lease programs should be like for the Nissan Maxima and Altima. However, it would be a big help if you let me know how long you plan on leasing them for and how many miles per year you want to be allowed to drive without paying a lease-end penalty, first. Once I have that information, I will fill you in on the details. Talk to you soon.

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akangl · October 2001

I think I am better off buying then leasing whichever beast I decide on. The dealer sure doesn't like to give out residuals and money factors.

ubrsf · October 2001

and also what are the residuals for a 36/12K miles or a 36/15k miles? Thanks in advance.

parnola · October 2001

Hi Carman,

I wonder if you can tell me what lease deals are available on the following vehicles - 36/39 mo at 15k miles.

1. Audi A6
2. BMW 3-series
3. BMW 5-series

Thank you in advance. I appreciate your support on this forum.

cubes · October 2001

On the 18th I posted requesting MF and residual info on the Mercury Mountaineer AWD. Any progress? I hope you can provide me with some info!

Thanks,
Nick

iamaddman · October 2001

Hi Carman,

Sorry I did not give you all the particulars. I am looking for info on a 36 month lease for either 12K or 15K of mileage for the '02 Altima S, SE, and Maxima SE.

Thanks

vr88 · October 2001

Carman -

Would you give me money factor & residual info on a 2002 Dodge Durango SLT/SLT+/RT models please?

Also do you know if there any rebates available or, perhaps, a loyalty rebate for current Chrysler Financial lease holders?

Thanks in advance!

alexi1 · October 2001

Carman,
I live in NY and would like to know whether the sales tax needs to be apllied to the entire purchase price of a car or just to the monthly lease payment. Thanks very much for your help!

borsyst · October 2001

feels like i'm calling for the koolaid guy. have some questions on a 2002 Sequoia SR5. Do you have any residual figures for a 3 or 4 year term, 15k and 12K on the annual milage. Also, do you know what kind of money factor Toyota is using. Lastly, I live in CT and I am unclear on how the tax works. do I have to pay all up front, or is it built into the monthly payment and what is it based on, total purchase price or the total depreciation? Thanks in advance for your help.

gperr · October 2001

Car_man,

Can you please provide the MF & Residual for the 2002 Lexus LS 430 for 39 months and 12K miles, with an MSRP $58263.

Thanks a million.

Gregg

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

You're welcome, akangl. I am glad that I was able to help you out. You're right about dealers often not wanting to provide their potential customers with lease data. I guess that they feel the less a consumer knows the better from their standpoint.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Sure thing, ubrsf. The lease money factor for a 2002 BMW 330i leased right now for 3 years through BMW Financial Services is .00265. The 3 year 15,000 and 12,000 miles per year residual values for this car should be 60% and 62%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Hellp Parnola. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what the lease programs on these cars should currently look like. All of the following lease information is for captive finance companies. The 3 year lease money factors for a 2002 Audi A6 should be .00250 for the A6 Sedan 2.7T, .00260 for the A6 Sedan 3.0L 2WD, .00280 for the A6 Sedan 3.0L quattro, & .00225 for the A6 4.2L quattro. The corresponding 15,000 miles per year residual values for these cars should be 57%, 55%, 58%, & 57%, respectively. Actually, I am just realizing how long this post is going to become because BMW's lease programs for the 3- & 5-Series also vary by trim level. Is there any way that you could be a little more specific about the exact models that you are interested in? That would be a huge help. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2001

Sorry about the delay, Nick. There are so many new posts in this particular thread and they take so long to find the answers out to that yours must have fallen through the cracks. I apologize. As I may have mentioned in the past, Ford Motor Credit's lease rates often vary depending upon what part of the country one is in. The last time that I saw Ford Motor Credit's lease program for the 2002 Mountaineer AWD, they had a 3 year lease rate of only 0.25% and a 15,000 miles per residual value of 43%. I hope that answers your question, but if you have any others please feel free to ask (I promise not to lose them

).

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parnola · October 2001

CarMan - thank you for the response regarding the Audi - I apologize for not providing more information - I didn't realize the companies vary their programs based on trim levels. I am interested in the 330i and 530i on the BMW, again 36 or 39 mo for 15,000 miles.

Thanks again!

cupholder1 · October 2001

I had an interesting experience at a dealership today - see inconsiderate salesman forum. Needless to say, the dealer seemed fairly shocked that I knew the VW money factor on the Passat.

ubrsf · October 2001

williamshim · October 2001

Question....What is a money factor and what is better...high or low? Obviously, I've never leased before...Thanks.

shipo · October 2001

I was under the (apparently false) impression that I am fairly savvy when it comes to auto leasing. I am part owner in three separate small businesses, and we lease all of our cars for tax reasons. At this point we have leased many cars and been exposed to various situations when lease end came around (ie. over mileage, vehicle damage and allowing the employee to buy the car from the leasing company for the residual value), however, we now have a situation that has me completely stumped. Maybe Car_Man or some of you dealership types can offer some advice.

Background:

Leased 1999 328i, PP, HK, Xenon, Metallic Paint with a CAP cost of around $38,000 (including dealer fees and State Tax) on 30-Jan-1999.
Lease was for 39 months at 1,250 miles per month (total miles 48,750) zero down for $510 per month from BancOne.
The car (mine as it turns out) currently has just over 31,000 miles and at my current rate of driving will have about 37,000 at lease termination.
Residual value was calculated at $26,605 at lease termination.

Situation:

I called BancOne today and asked if I could extend my lease for a year with zero additional miles so that I could use up the miles that we will have already paid for by next April. The customer representative told me that they had a 13 month lease extension program (no big deal to me), and that my payment would go up?!? That was a big deal to me, I had to ask WHY?

I was told that the CAP cost for the re-lease was calculated at the current market value of the car and that the current residual was irrelevant. He said that my car would have a market value over $32,000 next spring; in addition, I would be forced to buy 15,000 additional miles.

It seems to me that they are asking us to pay for depreciation that has already been paid for, and that is at the very least, unethical if not downright criminal.

Now is where I step into the unknown. In order for my company to continue to benefit from the leasing tax benefits, I must continue leasing. So far I can only come up with two alternatives:

1) Try and find another leasing company to buy the car for the $26,605 and write me a lease for a year or two including an additional 1,000 miles per month. This would be desirable, however, I have never heard of anybody doing this before, and I have no idea how to go about it.

2) Cut a deal with a BMW dealership to take the car as a trade and work out some sort of equity split with them where my portion would be rolled into a new car.

Any advise?

Best Regards,
Shipo

sasquach70 · October 2001

Carman-

Saw your earlier response to someone regarding residual and money factor on GLS V6. Can you provide info on 2002 GLX residuals based on 3yrs at 10 or 12k/yr. Would the money factor through vw credit remain the same at .00180? thanks for any assistance.

borsyst · October 2001

with all the posts on this board, I wasn't sure if you saw my original post at #2822 re: Sequoia, so I'll copy and paste here...

Hey Car Man...feels like i'm calling for the koolaid guy. have some questions on a 2002 Sequoia SR5. Do you have any residual figures for a 3 or 4 year term, 15k and 12K on the annual milage. Also, do you know what kind of money factor Toyota is using. Lastly, I live in CT and I am unclear on how the tax works. do I have to pay all up front, or is it built into the monthly payment and what is it based on, total purchase price or the total depreciation? Thanks in advance for your help

lotus18 · October 2001

Car_man,
A quick question: If we are not agree with the way the monthly payment is calculated and shown on the lease agreement, who do we turn to in order to verify the lessor's calculation ?
Is there any independent professional for both the lessee and lessor to seek advice in order to resolve the dispute ?

DABurack · October 2001

I'm at the lease end for my 1999 Solara SLE. Love the car, but excess mileage (extra = 18,000 x $0.15) and wear & tear ($712) proved to me that I should not have leased. The car is in excellent running condition (Edmunds estimates the trade-in value at $11,800; purchase from bank $19,785 (!))and I am ready to re-lease for another 2 years, which will avoid/postpone the above out of pocket lease-end charges + $350 disposition fee. However, I would love to buy a new Solara. Is there any way I can avoid big out of pocket charges from the lease termination and down payment for a new vehicle? What will it do to my monthly cost? Thanks for any insights or guidance.

blerner2 · October 2001

Carman,

I'm wondering if you can provide a check on my lease calculations for the following vehicles. All leases are 36 mos. 15k/yr with $0 down.

2002 Accord EX (no leather):
MSRP: $20,510
Adj. Cap Cost: $20,800
Residual Rate: 57% (AHFC)
Money Factor: .00142
Monthly Lease: $255.76 (incl. 3% NC Sales Tax)

2002 Accord EXV6:
MSRP: $25,740
Adj. Cap Cost: $23,500
Residual Rate: 57% (AHFC)
Money Factor: .00142
Monthly Lease: $316.12 (incl. 3% NC Sales Tax)

I'm using the Residual rates/money factors that you had alerted me to in an earlier post from this month.

MSRP

rapro · October 2001

My question regards a lease where the payment for the depreciation of the car over the lease term is paid in cash upfront. Is there still interest-money factor to be paid and if so on what amount?

wing5nut · October 2001

Car_man,

The moment has arrived to narrow my selection of a new Acura. I would appreciate it if you could provide the MF & RV numbers for the following 2002 models:

CL (non-Navi)
TL Premium (non-Navi)
TL Type-S (non-Navi)
RL (non-Navi)

I'd like numbers for 36-month and 48-month leases, based upon 12K per year. Also, let me know if your crystal ball shows the possibility of those numbers getting better in November. Many thanks in advance...

wing5nut

silvercrown · October 2001

Hi Car_Man,

I have a more general leasing question this time. I am currently "leasing" my 2000 Camry through a program at my credit union (see my post under the "Payment Shaver" topic for more details). My lease began in December of 1999 and runs for 5 years. Although this sounded like a good idea at the time, I kind of regret it now. I like my car, but I don't think that I want to keep it for the long term. As indicated in my previous posts, I'm interested in the 2002 Passat, 2002 Camry or possibly the 2002 Altima. I like the Passat the best, although it is the most expensive of the bunch.

However, because of my financing situation, I don't think I'm going to be able to move into another car anytime soon. I was thinking that I may have paid into it long enough by next summer to make a move (I'd be midway through my lease term), but now I don't think that will work. In your opinion, when is the best time to try to get out of a lease early? Will it get better the longer I wait and the closer it gets to the lease end? Or will it get worse as the car depreciates more (and the warranty expires)? Is there an optimal point at which to do this? I know I don't want to wait 3 more years for my next car, but I don't know when will be the best time to try to get out of this one with the least amount of financial damage. What do you think?

I've already decided not to use this program again, I either want a straight lease or financing if I can afford it. Now that I understand leasing better, I don't think this is the way to go for me. I just don't know what to do in the meantime, except wait a while. But I'm not sure if I want to wait until 2004 for my next car. I'm pretty sure that I'll probably lease my next car, and it will probably be a Passat. Has the money factor dropped lately? I saw you post a money factor of .00180 for someone's question. I think you gave me one of .00255 or .00270 a month or so ago. If so, did it drop because of the events of last month and the state of the economy? Is this VW's answer to the 0% financing offers from the Big 3? This sounds like a very good money factor, too bad I can't take advantage of it now. :-(

Thanks, Car_Man.

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