Subaru Crew - Future Models II

jregen7243 · April 2002

Not sure if anyone posted about these yet. I saw them at the NY auto show yesterday. Very minor changes. In fact, unless you are into Subaru or have one, you wouldn't notice the difference. Lower front bumper is changed, Subaru emblem on front is now blue, chrome around tach and speedo, new head unit design also. Leather seats seemed better, but I'm not sure if those are different or mine are looking old. Also, Onstar was included in the VDC sedan they had there.

One thing, the McIntosh stereo looks completely out of place with the rest of the dashboard. This was the first time I saw it in person.

Jon

jimmyp1 · April 2002

future engine choices?

jim

jimmyp1 · April 2002

They just built Texas' largest and only stand-alone Subaru location. Very nice. The service bays are immaculate. Nice equipment. The service manager is a very nice guy, and a Subaru enthusiast (goes on iClub excursions), and he confirmed that they have in fact taken deposits for the STi WRX. Suspects they will only get 1 or 2, 3 if they are extremely fortunate. He confirmed the 1700 units of production number I've seen around here recently. Here's where it gets really interesting...I said, "announce that the B4 is coming and you can have my deposit money too", he laughed, searched for words, and muttered something like, "you may not be waiting too long" then basically refused to comment any further. I could basically see a reflection of Patti in the dungeon in his eyes. Maybe I was reading too much into it, but this guy had been told not to say anything about the B4, that much I can assure you. I know him well enough. I hereby vow to keep my Turbo Legacy until the next version arrives! It is coming.

Jim

blane · April 2002

jimmyp1:

I tried the arm twisting at the NY Auto Show Sunday about when the Legacy GT will have another engine choice. I was politely told that there was no information available.

I was surprised to see no Legacy sedans on display. The Subaru exhibit was on the lower of two levels. The one where there was nothing but trucks and SUVs. The much more interesting vehicles (to me at least) were on the upper floor. Lots of concept cars, sport sedans, sports cars, convertibles, exotics, etc.

blane · April 2002

Patti:

A while ago there was a discussion about why Subaru dropped the incredibly useful split rear seatbacks in the Legacy GT and sedans. The rationale pointed to a question of structural integrity and anticipated government mandated requirements.

I've been doing a lot of window shopping, most recently at the NY Auto Show. Is it possible that BMW, Audi and other major manufacturers are way behind Subaru's insight? Or, did Subaru's beancounters just figure that they could save a few dollars per unit?

self_mechanic · April 2002

Hi Jon,

Did you notice whether the headlights are HID? Does it also get Aluminium hood also like european counter part? Thanks.

A. Chee

paisan · April 2002

I think it is a rouge to get you to buy the wagon version personally. My dad's '97 has the split rear seats and it is great!

-mike

jimmyj1945 · April 2002

Where is this dealer in Texas? I live in Lubbock, but I do travel around Texas some.

Thanks,

Jim J.

jregen7243 · April 2002

To my surprise, the lights on the '03 models are exactly the same as on my '00. I'm not sure about the aluminum hood, but the hood on the one I saw didn't look any different than mine. Now that I think about, they changed the grill also, but not by much. Since Subaru was on the lower level, I didn't get to spend as much time there as I would have liked. There were a lot of people walking around the Subaru area. Kids were checking out the engine of a WRX there. There were also a lot of people checking out the '03 OB Sedan.

One of the coolest non-Subaru cars I saw was the new Suzuki Aerio (sp?) wagon. Very nice looking car. It will easily put Suzuki back on the map.

Jon

sweet_subie · April 2002

CHERRY HILL, N.J.  April 2, 2002  Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA), a pioneer of all-wheel drive crossover vehicles designed for the active lifestyle, announced today sales figures for March. Subaru recorded a total of 13,605 units for the month, a decrease of 6% from 2001 totals for the same period.

Subaru Impreza achieved a sales total of 3,780 units in March, an increase of 36% from last year. Subaru Legacy led the monthly total with 6,141 units posted, down 15%, while sales of Subaru Outback were 4,492 units, a decrease of 17% from March 2001. Subaru Forester posted a total of 3,684 units for the month, down 18% from last year.

rsholland · April 2002

to see the car rags doing their comparison testing!

What do you think the STi will be paired against?

My guess: The EVO, M-3, S-4, and the AMG 36. Any others? How about the Porsche AWD 911 turbo?

Bob

odd1 · April 2002

GM was down 2%, DC 4%, and Ford 13%. The local business section only gave the Detriot numbers so I don't know how others did.

I don't think the numbers come as a surprise after the record years recently and the zero percent financing and rebates of late. It will take time for the market to adjust from the sales of the last few months.

odd1 · April 2002

I believe the dealership jimmyp1 is referring to is here in Houston out on I-10 West. I think it is West Houston Subaru.

jimmyp1 · April 2002

Spend any time on TXIC? I'm Jarvis, there. Just wondering.

Jim

ateixeira · April 2002

Forester is about to be replaced, so being down 18% should not come as a surprise at all. Some cars fall 50% right before they are replaced.

Jon: I went yesterday, too. You really liked the Aerio? I thought it looked too tall in person, sort of dorky. It's also very short, the wagon even more so than the sedan. Inside, materials were econobox-level, no better. IMO it'll have trouble competing against the Matrix and Protoge5, plus the Outback Sport. Maybe if they price it lower it'll sell, but I can't see it going head-to-head with those.

A. Chee - no HIDs, I asked. Also, no aluminum hood on the Legacy. WRX and Forester are the only Subies to use aluminum.

Jon: did you sit in the Legacy GT wagon that was there? You missed a few major updates:

* VTD AWD on the 2.5 GT (auto only)
* Shiftronice 4 speed automatic on the 2.5 GT
* newer rims on GT, cleaner design
* subwoofer in the cargo area on a few models (same position as the VDC)

plus the things you mentioned:

* all grilles have less chrome, look better
* the chrome must have gone to the inside, trim rings around the speedo and tach
* I didn't even notice the blue emblem, nice catch

All that plus I'm trying to remember if the GT has leather. The GT wagon never offered leather before. Heated seats too, I just can't remember. Anyone going today please check!

That makes the GT really appealing, and it's also the first time Subaru didn't completely ignore this model. Perhaps they are preparing us for an upscale Blitzen? Hope so!

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

Juice and I went to the NY Auto Show yesterday. Yes, there was an '03 Legacy GT wagon, an '03 Outback LL Bean wagon, and an '03 Outback VDC sedan there. The biggest changes appeared on the legacy GT wagon. Also, saw new Forester and Baja.

'03 Legacy GT wagon:
 It has a new grille, much better looking, IMO.
 It has new wheels, again better looking.
 It had an automatic with a 4-speed manual Sport-Shift!! This has been available in Japan for some time, but is now available here on the GT model. Don't know if it will be available on other Subies, however, it was not on the '03 Outbacks that were on display.
 It had VDT, which probably means a rearward power bias!!

Anybody heading to the show tonite, please check as to whether it had heated seats, and/or leather seats. Neither juice or I could remember.

'03 Outbacks:
 New slightly different grille, again better looking than current model.
 New front bumper skin.
 6-CD changer now standard on VDC with Macintosh.
 Security system now standard.
 On-Star on all H-6 models

Headlights appear to be the same as current models, and not like those found on recently updated Japanese and Aussie models. Not sure about suspension updates that those model have, and no H-6 Legacy.

Forester:
As expected just a bit nicer than current models. There were two there, plus a cut-away. Both were XS plus models with auto and leather. I wish other versions were there, but they were MIA.

 It appears that mud flaps may now be an option, as one had them, and the other didn't.

 Rear seat is a "tad" more comfortable, but that it.
 No more little door armrest storage pockets.

Baja:
 Looks better in person, but still no beauty queen.
 Possible problem area! The Baja on display had a trailer hitch receiver. When the tailgate is dropped, the license plate swings down so it can be seen. When this happens, it completely blocks the trailer hitch, so it can't be used!
 There is a tow hook under a removable panel on the front bumper. It states (embossed) "tow hook." I've never seen that before on a Subie.

I will post other car/show comment over on Cafe forum in a few minutes.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

Pro:
* looks sharp in person, red is nicer than photos
* padded elbow rests on doors
* nicer headliner, you were right Patti! :-)
* much, much nicer sun visors, but still not lit
* nice padded dash material, texture, feel
* aluminum hood
* 3 cargo nets
* AWD logo on side instead of cheap sticker
* side mirror and C pillar painted, not flat black
* better position for seat heater swith
* much better cup holders, but could be lined
* more comfy and supportive seats, ratchet to raise/lower
* most important: NO COST CUTTING

Con:
* one model on display had no mud guards? two did?
* roof rub strips are gone, now it's flat instead of having creases
* not that much roomier, 3 kids -> go with Legacy
* not much more cargo space, but was good before

Overall a very positive impression. Still, I was even more impressed with the stuff the Legacy GT got.

-juice

ateixeira · April 2002

Oops, forgot to mention OnStar on the high-end models. I guess that was not a surprise, though.

The 6 CD on the Macintosh is a big plus - I know those owners have asked about it and it was hard to add on. Kudos for addressing that.

On the Baja:

* yellow color looks much better in person
* mid gate is bigger than photos make it look, could be useful for some types of lumber, long boxes
* still, too much cladding
* hitch receiver blocked by license plate when tail gate is down

Bottom line is I liked it better than I thought I would. The guy hinted that for 2003 the glass would fold, making for a full size mid gate, hope so.

-juice

chief1989 · April 2002

Since you have seen the new Forester, if you have to decide between the 2002 and 2003 which would you buy? Consider the price difference as say-only-$700. Apples to apples so say both years are the fully loaded with leather models. Thanks for your input.

Chief

rsholland · April 2002

the '03 model, just on looks alone. Besides looks, I think the functional improvements are also worthwhile.

Bob

paisan · April 2002

When it drops down does it just flop down or is it pushed down? In other words, could it just rest on top of the high if in place when it drops down? Also you wouldn't drop down the rear and drive around with a trailer on your vehicle, or you'd crunch the tailgate, so I don't see that as an issue.

-mike

rsholland · April 2002

<< When it drops down does it just flop down or is it pushed down? In other words, could it just rest on top of the high if in place when it drops down? >>

Not sure, but I don't think so.

<< Also you wouldn't drop down the rear and drive around with a trailer on your vehicle, or you'd crunch the tailgate, so I don't see that as an issue. >>

I see your point, but you still should be able to drop the tailgate if you need to, even with a trailer hooked up. I don't think you can do that with the way it is now.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

For $700 I'd still wait and get a 2003. But I doubt it'll increase that much. My guess is $300 or so.

They had bikes in the bed, so they did not even close the tail gate. That meant we could not see how the license plate gets lowered.

I had the same thought you had, paisan, about not needing the bed to open when you tow. Maybe it's not a big deal, but they said they were working on it still.

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

virtually every image I've seen, is with the Baja having the tailgate down, and using that bed extender. The bed is very short, as we all know, so if you have to trailer with the tailgate closed, you won't be able to carry much in the bed. You wouldn't be able to put bikes in there, that's for sure.

Bob

subearu · April 2002

while I'm still aching for a Blitzen, the '03 sounds like a promising direction.

-Brian

lucien2 · April 2002

...like they're getting us ready for a B4. Just so long as they're not getting us ready for no more manual in Legacy sport models at the same time.....

rsholland · April 2002

This is a problem that is unique to the Baja, as it is the only pickup that has a swing-down rear license plate. My understanding is this is done for legal reasons; the license plate must be visible at all times.

Not being an engineer, I don't know if there is an alternate (easy) solution, other than re-thinking the placement of the rear license plate. If it were mounted on the rear bumper, like other pickups, it wouldn't be problem, but that requires a major redesign.

Maybe (hopefully) Subaru will offer a drop-down, "U-shaped" hitch that will circumvent the lowered license?

Bob

paisan · April 2002

Probably does not need to be visible if there is a trailer attached.

A U-shaped hitch would be a big mistake. It would cost a lot more than the $10 straight tube you can buy at any Walmart.

I'll bet that the plate doesn't swing down but rather just falls down as you lower the tailgate, if that is the case, it can rest on the hitch w/o a problem.

-mike

kens · April 2002

juice & Bob,

Nice scoop on the NY Auto Show! I was very excited to hear that Subaru finally decided to do a little more for the Legacy GT! I'd love to see that sport-shift in person. Any hints of a bigger powerplant in the near future?

Ken

chief1989 · April 2002

What do you want to bet! My prediction is a B-4 in 2004. You heard it hear first folks.

Chief

paisan · April 2002

I'll be shooting a ton of pics tonight so look for links tomorrow.

-mike

hypov · April 2002

Hmmm I wonder if that will translate to the WRX slushbox?

-Dave

kens · April 2002

Dave,

Outside of the US, the auto-WRXes have the sport-shift. It just may be a matter of time.

Ken

hypov · April 2002

Ken-
Was hoping the "matter of time" would come, say, MY2003

I'm leaning towards being daring and go for the Midnight Black wagon.

-Dave

rsholland · April 2002

the '03 WRX automatic also gets the Sport-Shift.

Bob

kens · April 2002

So, did you guys see any literature on the 2003 models? I checked Subaru's News Room but didn't see any formal announcement on the 2003 model changes yet.

Ken

rsholland · April 2002

I believe the '03 Legacy GT wagon did have leather. I remember you and I commenting about it still lacking map pockets on the back of the front seats, and as I recall, the seat backs were shinny, as in leather or vinyl. If they were cloth seats, I would think that would also be cloth.

Still don't remember as to whether it got the All-Weather Package though. Paisan et al, can you guys remember to check?

Bob

rsholland · April 2002

teaser brochures on the Forester and Baja.

Bob

paisan · April 2002

Hmm, if they would just offer an H6 I might pick that up once the Trooper is paid off, maybe it'll have to be the blitzen though.

-mike

ateixeira · April 2002

The teaser brochures didn't really have anything that we didn't already know. No prices yet, either. We spoke with two fairly knowledgeable guys on the stand, both dealers I believe, and they even showed us the complete list of changes.

I think Bob is right - I'm leaning towards the GT having heated leather, actually. If so, that could be my wife's next car. Leather and AWP were all that were missing from the wagon. And it did not say "Limited", it was a 2.5 GT.

The shiftronic was cool. The lever went straight back, unlike the jagged pattern on the current autos. Then you could push it to the right, where you could tap it forward or back to shift. This is much better than the side-to-side tapping on the Chrysler Autostick, for instance. No buttons on the wheels, IIRC, though. Still, one of the better designs.

Given the auto WRX already has VTD, I bet it's very likely the next to get shiftronic. That would be a big plus.

I'm with paisan - GT H6 shiftronic and I'd probably buy it. I know it's not a manual, but still, that would be close enough. I've come to realize no car is perfect.

(finally, the whole Crew takes a sigh of relief!)

-juice

subearu · April 2002

was it still a 4 speed AT or (gulp) a 5 sp? I too checked the subaru site for info and couldn't find anything.

I did say a while back that they should give the Legacy "at least the VTD". Maybe I should have said "at least the Blitzen motor".

My wife could care less about the Legacy having the new tranny. Before our Outback, I really wanted a Legacy GT Limited sedan (only one available with moonroof). But, she didn't like the looks of it. And she (we) wanted something that could haul Brooke (and her stuff) around, so we got the OB. I'm trying to propose to her that we ditch her Saturn for the '03 2.5 GT and hold out for the SUW in '04. She'd get the OB, I'd get the GT.

I'll wait for more info to surface. And pictures!

-Brian

ateixeira · April 2002

Brian: you gotta ask for more, buddy! It worked last time! ;-)

4 speed, for now. I hope a 5 speed is on the way.

paisan ought to get plenty of pics.

-juice

subearu · April 2002

kens · April 2002

juice,

Did the Shiftronic look like this:

http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/wrx/mechanism/img/t_photo_01.gif

That's the one offered in Japan for the WRX.

Hmmm. A Legacy GT with the sport shift and H6 would be hard to resist. I'm thinking of getting another Subie maybe next year and I'm debating between going for all-out-fun and getting the WRX wagon or try and balance some fun with more room and go for a Legacy GT 6 or Turbo.

What would you guys do?

Ken

ateixeira · April 2002

Well, reverse it. The manual section was on the right side. Thanks for the photo, BTW.

Also, it didn't have that steering wheel, or at least I don't think so (again, paisan, buddy, help us out!).

The power was disconnected so I did not see the gear display.

-juice

odd1 · April 2002

I'm an inner-looper and recent transplant who goes home to Austin frequently. When I see that dealership on the I10 parking lot I know I'm half way to Austin, time wise. I don't own I Subaru yet. Trying to talk wife into giving up the mini van(my car) for a Forester. I don't care for the van in Houston traffic both size-wise and in gas consumption. We did grad school here. So, the all wheel drive and clearance appeal to me for those torrential downpours and flooded streets.

I haven't been on the I club boards. The people on this board(and Patti) have me sold on Subaru already.

I just wish there was something Subaru bigger than the Forester that wasn't a wagon. The wife says NO WAGONS, but she is willing to accept the Forester; go figure.

I will be going to the Houston Auto Show next week sometime. I hope the '03 Forester will be there.

breld · April 2002

Will everyone please stop saying that a tiptronic auto is "close enough" and that they'll be happy with that? I don't want SOA to catch wind of such comments!

It may be good enough for someone like Juice who has the Miata alternative in the garage, but for those of us who want sportiness and practicality in one vehicle, we need the manual!

SOA - bring on a higher powered Legacy (be it H6 or turbo) with a manual, and I'll be returning to the Subaru family (and if you can do it before my Subaru card points expire, all the better!).

ateixeira · April 2002

OK I'll stop. I prefer a proper manual myself! :-)

-juice

fandc · April 2002

http://www.spimotorsports.com/wallpapers.htm

I want the dark blue B4.

subearu · April 2002

that's the dark blue I saw on the com.jp site a while back. vroom!

-Brian

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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