Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    I find myself intrigued by the new Legacy. Has anyone heard when it is expected to hit showrooms? I'm guessing September.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    New Subaru models typically hit the showroom floors in late August to early September.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Anybody happen to check out the roof rack capacity of the new '03 Forester? It's usually marked on top of the first crossbar of the roof rack. I'm wondering if it remains at 150 pounds?

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, maybe not "too" outrageous... Perhaps "educated guesses" would be a better term?

    We haven't heard the last of '03 Legacy changes yet:

    • Current Legacy L will be rebadged as a "2.5 L" or "2.5 TS," and will get 15" alloys as standard.

    • Current Legacy GT (with cloth) will be remain, but will be rebadged as a "2.5 GS," or a "2.5 RS."

    • A Legacy H-6 will make a late debut in the fall, as a Legacy "GT Limited H-6," and with a Sport-Shift tranny. Maybe even a 5-speed (?) Sport-Shift, if it's ready.

    Bob
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    why the passenger foot well on my OB seems to be considerably shorter than the drivers side. A number of people have commented about it as a comfort drawback. Yet from under the hood and from beneath the firewall looks to be about even. I think I go the answer at the show on Thursday. Did anyone take a close look at the '03 Forrester cutaway? There is an electronics module below a false floor on the passengers side, robbing maybe 4 inches of legroom. Is that present on the current models?

    I also shot about 130 photos (digital) at the show, but have nowhere to post them. Subaru had a nice display and I have some that complement Mike's. Any suggestions?

    Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Can you zip em and/or send em to me?

    I'll add em to mine.

    -mike
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Thanks, mike, for the great pics. If you don't mind my asking, are you one of the male models in the pictures?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Nah only one pic of me. I'm the goomba in the Black Trooper with the black leather coat.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, but Omar stands in for him as a hand model while mike does the talking (since he knows more) and Omar lip synchs! LOL!

    Interesting predictions, Bob, but I'm going to disagree. I see the lineup this way:

    2.5 L with 16" steel wheels, 205/55R16 tires, new bumper, new grille, chrome strips around speedo and tach (so this is closer to the old cloth GT)

    2.5 GT with leather and AWP, 5 speed manual or 4 speed shiftronic, basically like the one at the show

    3.0 GT with H6 and 4 speed shiftronic only, equipped like the LL Bean models, including OnStar.

    I agree that the lineup will be simplified, and 3 models ought to cover it. I will be bold and predict that the H6 makes it in the Legacy during the 2003 model year, maybe not right at first, but before the 2004 models arrive. Hope so!

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    By the way, Patti, if you want to "hint" as to which one of us is closer, be my guest!

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Except that the 3.0GT will be simply called the GT Limited. Speaking to my dealer also hinted that the H6 would make it into the legacy lineup this year.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hope so. The H6 models were not overly fast, but a GT with gearing 7% shorter (due to the tires) and a shiftronic would probably be quicker than the Outback H6s.

    Wife officially said a shiftronic would be ok, but still there's a preference for a manual. Now if I could only talk her into a wagon...

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    0n the base model, and that I think(?) there may be a model in between the base and GT. Actually, we don't disagree, because I think your scenario is also very workable.

    In any case, I think we will see Subaru indicate the "engine displacement" as part of the rear model badging on all Subarus, if not right away, certainly within a year or so. My guess is that for '03, only the Baja will not have the displacement as part of the model badge.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah. Under my scenario each model moves up a little in content and price, but $200-600, no more. Maybe it's my secret wish list more than anything.

    Another issue - if the L does get 16" rims (note that the Forester does), will the TS wagon also? Subaru could have 16" rims standard across the board.

    Finally - will the L still keep its unique 3.9:1 final drive? GTs and Outbacks have 4.11:1, so they are making a different part for a single, low volume model. I say drop it. Gas mileage isn't any better for the L, so give us the shorter gearing.

    I bet the Baja gets the badge once the H6 is offered in it.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    do make sense, in that all base models from all lines could use the same wheel.

    I see the Forester to continue NOT to use wheel covers, and that the base Impreza and base Legacy would have their own unique wheel covers.

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    My prediction is that we'll see a slightly tweaked H6 in the near future that offers a little more HP and torque. It seems completely plausible given how many times Subaru has tweaked the 2.5L engine.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the Legacy H-6 in Japan get a "tweaked" engine? I seem to remember that it did...

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I think the H6, as well as the other engines (2.5 and 2.0T), get AVCS which helps produce a little more low end torque.

    Ken
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I remember the H6 tweaked with AVCS and gained 2hp... or was it 4hp.
    Anyway, it was tweaked.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I remember the '96 Outback had 155hp and used premium fuel, but the '97 got 165hp on regular. I'd love to see 222hp on 87 octane.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    More torque without increasing from the current 212HP would be great for the Outback and Forester platforms, although it seems imminent at the Forester will instead receive a turbo four.

    But anyway, I think a Legacy GT platform would benefit more from high rpm power, and the continued use of premium to support that. Say 230HP @ 7000? Sounds good.

    -Colin
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Need some help with getting you some image files. I am using a 3megapixel camera (1500x2000 lines), JPEG 8:1 compression, yielding files of about 700k each. Way too big to send as is.

    I looked at your images and tried to copy some from your site to match size and format. They are very small (like 35k ??) with an extension of .ART (what is it??? none of my programs can open them...).

    What is a good way to get them to you? I could resave them as 600x800 to reduce them to about 100K?

    Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    yeah if you put em down to 600x800 and send em over that can work for me. I'm on DSL so you can send me up to 50mb of files if you wanted to.

    -mike
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    The ECU. is mounted in the passenger foot well, thats why it is short on leg room.

    My 91 and 93 Accords were mounted there as well, my 89 Accord had the ECU below the drivers seat.

    Cheers Pat.
  • esageresager Member Posts: 3
    Hi all -

    What is the consensus on when the '03 GT et al. will make it into dealerships?

    Thanks

    eric s.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    reports a 7 passenger Subaru SUV for 2005. not on their website as far as I can tell, but in the print version I just got. 3 row seating, FWIW.

    And it will be built with GM. :-O
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Eric: I just asked the same question in a different discussion. The answer that came back was something like "fall" or "September." That, apparently, the Subaru's usual practice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    ...will probably get the GM Epsilon chassis, but AN says it'll have a boxer engine and AWD. I'm hoping GM lets Subaru engineer the platform, sort of like they let Isuzu do the small pickukp. GM will have a clone, but if it's done by Subaru that fine with me.

    What I don't want is a Malibu clone. I will run, not walk, to the nearest exit.

    In the same article, AN said the Legacy may appear in July. That's earlier than usual. They also say 2003 Impreza in August and Baja in September.

    I'm sure those are just forecasts, so we'll see.

    -juice
  • goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    I want Subaru's association with GMC to benefit Subaru and the quality of its products. I want Subaru products to remain distinct (GM can borrow Subaru products -- Subaru should never, ever, EVER rebadge a GMC product). If GMC starts monkeying with the Subaru products -- any GM "engineering" gets in there -- good-by. I will never tolerate American production "quality" in a vehicle I buy -- not ever again.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you look at Isuzu, what happened with the Ascendor is totally unacceptable (GMC clone), but the new Rodeo is fine (Isuzu engineering and powertrains).

    That's where I draw the line. It has to be a Subie - AWD, boxer, reliable.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Isuzu is hurting. They don't have cars in the US market any more and besides a strong light- and medium-duty truck presence (real trucks, not passenger vehicles) they've got nothing really.

    Subaru is much different. They have a strong brand image, although are still a small niche player. It doesn't make any sense to try to badge-engineer a new Subaru model, but I can see new development being done that would share models between Subaru and other GM brands. To be a Subaru though, I think we all agree there's no point in it if it's not Subaru technology and build quality.

    -Colin
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Well put. :-)

    Stephen
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Amen for Brother Colin!?
  • goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    But The Rodeo was the #1 selling Japanese SUV back in the early-mid 90s.

    So be careful what you wish for. As soon as Subaru slips just a little bit, GM will slash and burn em to the ground.

    Also the Isuzus up til the ASSender had GM tranny's and some delphi electronics and are as reliable or more reliable than the subarus, so GM vendors aren't necessarily bad, but just heed my warning... The General will swallow them up eventually.

    -mike
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    What Peter said goes for me as well. If GM content and quality creep into Subaru, Rufus will be my first and last Subaru. I have come to appreciate Subaru more than any other marque in my 35+ years of car buying experience. I feel as though I've finally found the perfect match. GM in, I'm out.

    Ross
  • artgeckoartgecko Member Posts: 78
    The full text of the article in autoweek reads:

    "Seven-seat Subie

    A bigger, seven-seat Subaru sport/ute is in our future. built in conjunction with General Motors using Subaru's all-wheel-drive system and an H-configured engine, sources confirm. Look for the 5+2 Subie in 2005 at the earliest."

    The same news page also comments on the Ascender, and recommends people looking at teh TrailBlazer EXT or GMC Envoy XL should also take a look at the 2003 Isuzu Ascender; same GM platforn, same 270 hp 4.2 engine, and same three rows of seating, but 10 year/100,000 mile warranty instead of the 3 year/36,000 mile warranty offered by Chevy/GMC

    Probably old news to you guys, but new to me.
    Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    it's 3/50K BtoB and 10/120K on the PT. Also the only one thus far available with the 5.3l V8.

    The ASSender that is.

    -mike
  • artgeckoartgecko Member Posts: 78
    Ahhh, putting the glasses on help a lot!

    "...but Ascender comes with a 10 year/120,000 mile powertrain warranty, vs. the three-year/36,000 mile allowed by Chevy and GMC."

    It also specifically mentions 2003, so that must be when the 4.2 inline six comes our way.

    Sorry for the mis-reading,
    Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Actually the ASSender comes with the 4.2I6, but Isuzu is the only one with the 5.3V8 option of the triplets that is.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Paisan--

    Source for your Rodeo claim? I saw more of them then than now, no doubt. But I seriously doubt they outsold the 4Runner.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Give me a minute here...

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?rvid=29724&srv=review&act=search&tf=%2Freviews_results.tmpl&mkid=21&mdid=235&yr=1993&GetReview=Go


    "Rodeo is the best selling imported SUV"


    -mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan: GM strangled Isuzu, gave them no development budget. The Rodeo didn't get updates as often as it should have. It's had, what, one redesign? In more than a decade?

    I'm not saying it's a bad truck, but the SUV market is trendy. What's hot this year is old the next.

    Finally, they MSRP it too high, and then offer steep rebates to kill resale values. Terrible marketing.

    Good to have confirmation that the 2005 SUW will have a boxer engine and AWD. Sounds like GM will be selling the clone, not the other way around. Whew.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    is Ford offering these astonishing rebates everywhere or just in Denver: $6500 off of list on 02 Explorers, $9000 off of list on some of their 02 pickups (Denver Post this weekend)?!

    Why list a product at $20k+ and sell it for $14 ?

    I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. To me anyway, this screams trouble (we can't actually sell these things so we're giving them away). I run the other way from these kind of deals.

    Am I the only one who thinks this way ?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Rebates kill resale. Owners that bought before they were offered usually feel remorse, and leave the brand.

    Fitzmall is selling a new Rodeo for $28,067 that carries an MSRP of $32,340. The MSRP is absurd. Why not just price 'em like you sell 'em?

    Subaru is guilty, too. Some of their VDCs that list for $32,658 but sell for $28,999.

    What happens? The press says "$33 grand for a Subie?" at first. Down the road, resale is calculated based on MSRP, so depreciation is artificially steep. Double whammy.

    -juice
  • outbacker2k2outbacker2k2 Member Posts: 24
    Back the boat up a moment here. I remember GM bought a stake in Subaru, but FHI is still the owner correct? Did I miss something or does GMC really have so much control over subaru that they could screw us over like they did to Isuzu?
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I deleted the cross-post from this morning in order to fix the address error. Try this one:


    http://community.webshots.com/album/35303430rdZLZd


    Sorry....


    Steve

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it was 49% of Isuzu? And about 20% of FHI, which owns Subaru. But they'll likely increase their share with time.

    -juice
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    That works now, Steve. Thanks!
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