Anybody happen to check out the roof rack capacity of the new '03 Forester? It's usually marked on top of the first crossbar of the roof rack. I'm wondering if it remains at 150 pounds?
Well, maybe not "too" outrageous... Perhaps "educated guesses" would be a better term?
We haven't heard the last of '03 Legacy changes yet:
• Current Legacy L will be rebadged as a "2.5 L" or "2.5 TS," and will get 15" alloys as standard.
• Current Legacy GT (with cloth) will be remain, but will be rebadged as a "2.5 GS," or a "2.5 RS."
• A Legacy H-6 will make a late debut in the fall, as a Legacy "GT Limited H-6," and with a Sport-Shift tranny. Maybe even a 5-speed (?) Sport-Shift, if it's ready.
why the passenger foot well on my OB seems to be considerably shorter than the drivers side. A number of people have commented about it as a comfort drawback. Yet from under the hood and from beneath the firewall looks to be about even. I think I go the answer at the show on Thursday. Did anyone take a close look at the '03 Forrester cutaway? There is an electronics module below a false floor on the passengers side, robbing maybe 4 inches of legroom. Is that present on the current models?
I also shot about 130 photos (digital) at the show, but have nowhere to post them. Subaru had a nice display and I have some that complement Mike's. Any suggestions?
No, but Omar stands in for him as a hand model while mike does the talking (since he knows more) and Omar lip synchs! LOL!
Interesting predictions, Bob, but I'm going to disagree. I see the lineup this way:
2.5 L with 16" steel wheels, 205/55R16 tires, new bumper, new grille, chrome strips around speedo and tach (so this is closer to the old cloth GT)
2.5 GT with leather and AWP, 5 speed manual or 4 speed shiftronic, basically like the one at the show
3.0 GT with H6 and 4 speed shiftronic only, equipped like the LL Bean models, including OnStar.
I agree that the lineup will be simplified, and 3 models ought to cover it. I will be bold and predict that the H6 makes it in the Legacy during the 2003 model year, maybe not right at first, but before the 2004 models arrive. Hope so!
Except that the 3.0GT will be simply called the GT Limited. Speaking to my dealer also hinted that the H6 would make it into the legacy lineup this year.
Hope so. The H6 models were not overly fast, but a GT with gearing 7% shorter (due to the tires) and a shiftronic would probably be quicker than the Outback H6s.
Wife officially said a shiftronic would be ok, but still there's a preference for a manual. Now if I could only talk her into a wagon...
0n the base model, and that I think(?) there may be a model in between the base and GT. Actually, we don't disagree, because I think your scenario is also very workable.
In any case, I think we will see Subaru indicate the "engine displacement" as part of the rear model badging on all Subarus, if not right away, certainly within a year or so. My guess is that for '03, only the Baja will not have the displacement as part of the model badge.
Yeah. Under my scenario each model moves up a little in content and price, but $200-600, no more. Maybe it's my secret wish list more than anything.
Another issue - if the L does get 16" rims (note that the Forester does), will the TS wagon also? Subaru could have 16" rims standard across the board.
Finally - will the L still keep its unique 3.9:1 final drive? GTs and Outbacks have 4.11:1, so they are making a different part for a single, low volume model. I say drop it. Gas mileage isn't any better for the L, so give us the shorter gearing.
I bet the Baja gets the badge once the H6 is offered in it.
My prediction is that we'll see a slightly tweaked H6 in the near future that offers a little more HP and torque. It seems completely plausible given how many times Subaru has tweaked the 2.5L engine.
More torque without increasing from the current 212HP would be great for the Outback and Forester platforms, although it seems imminent at the Forester will instead receive a turbo four.
But anyway, I think a Legacy GT platform would benefit more from high rpm power, and the continued use of premium to support that. Say 230HP @ 7000? Sounds good.
Need some help with getting you some image files. I am using a 3megapixel camera (1500x2000 lines), JPEG 8:1 compression, yielding files of about 700k each. Way too big to send as is.
I looked at your images and tried to copy some from your site to match size and format. They are very small (like 35k ??) with an extension of .ART (what is it??? none of my programs can open them...).
What is a good way to get them to you? I could resave them as 600x800 to reduce them to about 100K?
Eric: I just asked the same question in a different discussion. The answer that came back was something like "fall" or "September." That, apparently, the Subaru's usual practice.
...will probably get the GM Epsilon chassis, but AN says it'll have a boxer engine and AWD. I'm hoping GM lets Subaru engineer the platform, sort of like they let Isuzu do the small pickukp. GM will have a clone, but if it's done by Subaru that fine with me.
What I don't want is a Malibu clone. I will run, not walk, to the nearest exit.
In the same article, AN said the Legacy may appear in July. That's earlier than usual. They also say 2003 Impreza in August and Baja in September.
I want Subaru's association with GMC to benefit Subaru and the quality of its products. I want Subaru products to remain distinct (GM can borrow Subaru products -- Subaru should never, ever, EVER rebadge a GMC product). If GMC starts monkeying with the Subaru products -- any GM "engineering" gets in there -- good-by. I will never tolerate American production "quality" in a vehicle I buy -- not ever again.
If you look at Isuzu, what happened with the Ascendor is totally unacceptable (GMC clone), but the new Rodeo is fine (Isuzu engineering and powertrains).
That's where I draw the line. It has to be a Subie - AWD, boxer, reliable.
Isuzu is hurting. They don't have cars in the US market any more and besides a strong light- and medium-duty truck presence (real trucks, not passenger vehicles) they've got nothing really.
Subaru is much different. They have a strong brand image, although are still a small niche player. It doesn't make any sense to try to badge-engineer a new Subaru model, but I can see new development being done that would share models between Subaru and other GM brands. To be a Subaru though, I think we all agree there's no point in it if it's not Subaru technology and build quality.
But The Rodeo was the #1 selling Japanese SUV back in the early-mid 90s.
So be careful what you wish for. As soon as Subaru slips just a little bit, GM will slash and burn em to the ground.
Also the Isuzus up til the ASSender had GM tranny's and some delphi electronics and are as reliable or more reliable than the subarus, so GM vendors aren't necessarily bad, but just heed my warning... The General will swallow them up eventually.
What Peter said goes for me as well. If GM content and quality creep into Subaru, Rufus will be my first and last Subaru. I have come to appreciate Subaru more than any other marque in my 35+ years of car buying experience. I feel as though I've finally found the perfect match. GM in, I'm out.
A bigger, seven-seat Subaru sport/ute is in our future. built in conjunction with General Motors using Subaru's all-wheel-drive system and an H-configured engine, sources confirm. Look for the 5+2 Subie in 2005 at the earliest."
The same news page also comments on the Ascender, and recommends people looking at teh TrailBlazer EXT or GMC Envoy XL should also take a look at the 2003 Isuzu Ascender; same GM platforn, same 270 hp 4.2 engine, and same three rows of seating, but 10 year/100,000 mile warranty instead of the 3 year/36,000 mile warranty offered by Chevy/GMC
Probably old news to you guys, but new to me. Steve
paisan: GM strangled Isuzu, gave them no development budget. The Rodeo didn't get updates as often as it should have. It's had, what, one redesign? In more than a decade?
I'm not saying it's a bad truck, but the SUV market is trendy. What's hot this year is old the next.
Finally, they MSRP it too high, and then offer steep rebates to kill resale values. Terrible marketing.
Good to have confirmation that the 2005 SUW will have a boxer engine and AWD. Sounds like GM will be selling the clone, not the other way around. Whew.
is Ford offering these astonishing rebates everywhere or just in Denver: $6500 off of list on 02 Explorers, $9000 off of list on some of their 02 pickups (Denver Post this weekend)?!
Why list a product at $20k+ and sell it for $14 ?
I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. To me anyway, this screams trouble (we can't actually sell these things so we're giving them away). I run the other way from these kind of deals.
Rebates kill resale. Owners that bought before they were offered usually feel remorse, and leave the brand.
Fitzmall is selling a new Rodeo for $28,067 that carries an MSRP of $32,340. The MSRP is absurd. Why not just price 'em like you sell 'em?
Subaru is guilty, too. Some of their VDCs that list for $32,658 but sell for $28,999.
What happens? The press says "$33 grand for a Subie?" at first. Down the road, resale is calculated based on MSRP, so depreciation is artificially steep. Double whammy.
Back the boat up a moment here. I remember GM bought a stake in Subaru, but FHI is still the owner correct? Did I miss something or does GMC really have so much control over subaru that they could screw us over like they did to Isuzu?
Comments
Ken
Bob
We haven't heard the last of '03 Legacy changes yet:
• Current Legacy L will be rebadged as a "2.5 L" or "2.5 TS," and will get 15" alloys as standard.
• Current Legacy GT (with cloth) will be remain, but will be rebadged as a "2.5 GS," or a "2.5 RS."
• A Legacy H-6 will make a late debut in the fall, as a Legacy "GT Limited H-6," and with a Sport-Shift tranny. Maybe even a 5-speed (?) Sport-Shift, if it's ready.
Bob
I also shot about 130 photos (digital) at the show, but have nowhere to post them. Subaru had a nice display and I have some that complement Mike's. Any suggestions?
Steve
I'll add em to mine.
-mike
-mike
Interesting predictions, Bob, but I'm going to disagree. I see the lineup this way:
2.5 L with 16" steel wheels, 205/55R16 tires, new bumper, new grille, chrome strips around speedo and tach (so this is closer to the old cloth GT)
2.5 GT with leather and AWP, 5 speed manual or 4 speed shiftronic, basically like the one at the show
3.0 GT with H6 and 4 speed shiftronic only, equipped like the LL Bean models, including OnStar.
I agree that the lineup will be simplified, and 3 models ought to cover it. I will be bold and predict that the H6 makes it in the Legacy during the 2003 model year, maybe not right at first, but before the 2004 models arrive. Hope so!
-juice
-juice
-mike
Wife officially said a shiftronic would be ok, but still there's a preference for a manual. Now if I could only talk her into a wagon...
-juice
In any case, I think we will see Subaru indicate the "engine displacement" as part of the rear model badging on all Subarus, if not right away, certainly within a year or so. My guess is that for '03, only the Baja will not have the displacement as part of the model badge.
Bob
Another issue - if the L does get 16" rims (note that the Forester does), will the TS wagon also? Subaru could have 16" rims standard across the board.
Finally - will the L still keep its unique 3.9:1 final drive? GTs and Outbacks have 4.11:1, so they are making a different part for a single, low volume model. I say drop it. Gas mileage isn't any better for the L, so give us the shorter gearing.
I bet the Baja gets the badge once the H6 is offered in it.
-juice
I see the Forester to continue NOT to use wheel covers, and that the base Impreza and base Legacy would have their own unique wheel covers.
Bob
Ken
Bob
Ken
Anyway, it was tweaked.
-Dave
-juice
But anyway, I think a Legacy GT platform would benefit more from high rpm power, and the continued use of premium to support that. Say 230HP @ 7000? Sounds good.
-Colin
I looked at your images and tried to copy some from your site to match size and format. They are very small (like 35k ??) with an extension of .ART (what is it??? none of my programs can open them...).
What is a good way to get them to you? I could resave them as 600x800 to reduce them to about 100K?
Steve
-mike
My 91 and 93 Accords were mounted there as well, my 89 Accord had the ECU below the drivers seat.
Cheers Pat.
What is the consensus on when the '03 GT et al. will make it into dealerships?
Thanks
eric s.
And it will be built with GM. :-O
What I don't want is a Malibu clone. I will run, not walk, to the nearest exit.
In the same article, AN said the Legacy may appear in July. That's earlier than usual. They also say 2003 Impreza in August and Baja in September.
I'm sure those are just forecasts, so we'll see.
-juice
That's where I draw the line. It has to be a Subie - AWD, boxer, reliable.
-juice
Subaru is much different. They have a strong brand image, although are still a small niche player. It doesn't make any sense to try to badge-engineer a new Subaru model, but I can see new development being done that would share models between Subaru and other GM brands. To be a Subaru though, I think we all agree there's no point in it if it's not Subaru technology and build quality.
-Colin
Stephen
So be careful what you wish for. As soon as Subaru slips just a little bit, GM will slash and burn em to the ground.
Also the Isuzus up til the ASSender had GM tranny's and some delphi electronics and are as reliable or more reliable than the subarus, so GM vendors aren't necessarily bad, but just heed my warning... The General will swallow them up eventually.
-mike
Ross
"Seven-seat Subie
A bigger, seven-seat Subaru sport/ute is in our future. built in conjunction with General Motors using Subaru's all-wheel-drive system and an H-configured engine, sources confirm. Look for the 5+2 Subie in 2005 at the earliest."
The same news page also comments on the Ascender, and recommends people looking at teh TrailBlazer EXT or GMC Envoy XL should also take a look at the 2003 Isuzu Ascender; same GM platforn, same 270 hp 4.2 engine, and same three rows of seating, but 10 year/100,000 mile warranty instead of the 3 year/36,000 mile warranty offered by Chevy/GMC
Probably old news to you guys, but new to me.
Steve
The ASSender that is.
-mike
"...but Ascender comes with a 10 year/120,000 mile powertrain warranty, vs. the three-year/36,000 mile allowed by Chevy and GMC."
It also specifically mentions 2003, so that must be when the 4.2 inline six comes our way.
Sorry for the mis-reading,
Steve
-mike
Source for your Rodeo claim? I saw more of them then than now, no doubt. But I seriously doubt they outsold the 4Runner.
-Colin
-mike
"Rodeo is the best selling imported SUV"
-mike
I'm not saying it's a bad truck, but the SUV market is trendy. What's hot this year is old the next.
Finally, they MSRP it too high, and then offer steep rebates to kill resale values. Terrible marketing.
Good to have confirmation that the 2005 SUW will have a boxer engine and AWD. Sounds like GM will be selling the clone, not the other way around. Whew.
-juice
Why list a product at $20k+ and sell it for $14 ?
I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. To me anyway, this screams trouble (we can't actually sell these things so we're giving them away). I run the other way from these kind of deals.
Am I the only one who thinks this way ?
Fitzmall is selling a new Rodeo for $28,067 that carries an MSRP of $32,340. The MSRP is absurd. Why not just price 'em like you sell 'em?
Subaru is guilty, too. Some of their VDCs that list for $32,658 but sell for $28,999.
What happens? The press says "$33 grand for a Subie?" at first. Down the road, resale is calculated based on MSRP, so depreciation is artificially steep. Double whammy.
-juice
http://community.webshots.com/album/35303430rdZLZd
Sorry....
Steve
-juice