Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Thanks. :-)

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    White Flint. I checked on the internet and their inventory was much greater than the new location.

    Anyone near DC see the 2003 Foresters yet?

    -juice
  • goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    everyone should by now. I saw my first 2003 Foresters in El Paso yesterday -- at the dealership (Mack Massey), tucked away in a corner, waiting to be cleaned up. They had come in Friday, May 3, the salesman said. But that was all he said. He did not seem interested to talk about them. Maybe he had given up on my wife and I when we did not want to take the WRX he offered for a test drive (he knew we were hanging out waiting on a service).

    Anyway, if El Paso has some 2003 Foresters, then everyone should have them. Mack Massey's Subaru lot is small and is shared with a Suzuki franchise. Just for your reference, there were three 03 Foresters -- one of each: X, XS, XS Premium, kind of like samples. Mack Massey had a lot full of Outbacks, a handful of 2002 Foresters, and three or four WRX's and an RS sedan, and one Outback Sport.

    The 03 Foresters are prettier in person. And the interiors are plusher looking. The Java Pearl color is wild! Very sweet looking, all of them. Sleeker than my 02. But I came away liking my 02 better in some ways, or feeling more respect for it. I like the blister-fenders more now. It gives it character. The 03's look slicker and faster. The 02 looks more SUV-like (though I tend to tkink of the Forester as a wagon more -- which is super-cool with me, I love wagons).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fitz still shows none in stock on their web site. They may be there, though.

    -juice
  • goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    Shows all three 2003 Foresters as being "in stock" now, though there is no 2003 catagory yet -- the 2003's pop up with the 2002's.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.apexjapan.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's my car! ;-)

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Actually SOJ introduced several 30th anniversary models: STi, Impreza Wagon, Impreza S202 and 3 Pleo models.


    http://210.254.95.20/showroom/30th_ltd/main.htm


    FYI, it's been 30 years since Subaru started into AWD.


    Ken

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wasn't it 4WD back then, though? Yeah, the 1973 model wagons were the first cars to get it, but those were definitely 4WD.

    image

    When were the first AWD models? Was it the XT? Legacy? Curious....

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    XT6 and/or the RX were the first with AWD.

    The XT didn't have AWD only 4WD

    1988 was the year the RX and XT6 both came out with AWD.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When did the first Legacy come out? Is that what you mean by RX?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The legacy didn't come out til '91 or '92.

    The pre-runner to the legacy was the Leone in '89ish->'91/92


    RX was a 2 door coupe or 2 door hatch or 4door sedan. Had rear LSD, 5 speed MT w/dual range AWD or 4wd, 1.8turbo. One of the classic rally cars, I'll see if I can get a link for yah. http://www.bensrallypage.com/forsale/cavett_subaru.html


    -mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the same as the GL-10 that was sold here, prior to the Legacy?

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The GL-10 was just a Subaru DL/GL/GL-10 the RX was a different model of Subaru.

    The DL/GL/GL-10 were all the same car, the DL/GL had 1.8l, DL had vinyl seats, GL had cloth, GL-10 got the 1.8l Turbo as a general rule of thumb.

    The RX was different body-style/model.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Was that sold here, or only overseas?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So the RX was a Loyale model, basically. That was before they named it Loyale, though.

    I remember they even made a hatchback, with a turbo. I used to valet park back in college and had the chance to drive one of those funky little hatches.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    RX was sold here, not sure about overseas, I think overseas it had a different name.

    The Loyale was what came of the RX after it was discoed. I think the Loyale got PT 4wd, but had the looks of the RX in the front, but was a wgon, not a hatch/coupe/sedan.

    -mike
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    Loyale was GL10 renamed. RX was a different model.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    I was thinking the same thing. As my memory serves me, the RX was the designation of the the 3dr Loyale hatchback model. It was also available w/turbo as Juice pointed out. This RX designation was not used on other Loyale models. Here's a pic of a white RX next to a WRX wagon (not my wagon):
    image

    Stephen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I liked those hatches. Also liked the smaller hatches, the rounded off ones.

    Subaru's naming was so complicated it's no wonder it's so hard to figure out.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The RX is/was a hot car. If it only had more oomph it would have rocked totally.

    They are still sought after for club-rallying due to the LSD and AWD.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    another new rumor of a 2.5 Forester and Legacy turbos!

    Bob

    http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185329
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    mmm, Blitzen!

    Good find Bob! 2005 though - that's too long of a wait!

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    when you think about it. Subaru tease us in MY 2004 with the Legacy turbo, then in MY2005, blows everyone away with the debut of the next generation Legacy turbo. It becomes a perfect time to debut a "super' Legacy, like the Blitzen, along with the rest of the all-new Legacys.

    It's just like what Subaru did with the WRX. They teased us with the 2.5 RS Impreza for a couple of years, then the WRX debuted with the all-new redesigned Impreza.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They are usually very circular.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Audi's 2.7T engine hasn't been that well accepted, and you'll note that the allroad gets a V8 option soon. The next S4 will also abandon that twin turbo engine.

    Subaru can only pull that off if the price stays in the $30k range or lower. Beyond that a 6 is just required to play.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it's a 2.5 SOHC (not a DOHC) low-boost turbo, I think the costs could be kept in line.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It should add $2-3k to the price of a GT, no more. Offer it a-la-carte on the GT, standard on the Ltd.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Yet another 2.5 turbo rumor, I see. Dealers unfortunatley don't always have the most accurate and up-to-date information.

    I'll believe it when I see it (although I'm hoping for one).

    Ken
  • jimmyj1945jimmyj1945 Member Posts: 141
    This is exactly what I wrote long ago. When I had returned from car shows and talked to Subaru people-not dealers. Around February/March. I would rather see the H-6, only because the idea of a Turbo is unknown to me (Old Man). Seams to me the scoop would pull in nothing but dirt here in the west???

    Jim J.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    Since we are all repeating ourselves, I'll chime in again, as well.

    A 2.5l turbo Forester is highly unlikely because:

    1. Subaru already has a very good, reliable, well-tested, recently improved, high mpg turbo (the new 2l turbo).
    2. A 2.5l turbo would easily produce 230-260hp, even if tuned for low-end torque. While model line-ups can be quirky (e.g., VW 1.8T more hp than VR6, more than A4 1.8T), this usually does not last for more than a few months. A stock 2.5T would outrace a WRX and if properly tuned, perhaps the US version of the STI. This simply does not make any sense.
    3. The Forester is a tall wagon with a good suspension and great handling. Subaru could indeed easily sell a model with more hp; the Forester can handle it. Given the demographics, this would work even better if the fuel consumption also were improved. The existing 2l turbo fits the bill.

    - D.

    [not that I wouldn't buy a 2.5l turbo … :) ]
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    this may be what is holding SOA back from all the engines we would like to see, esp fuel economy, with no "econobox" to lower their CAFE they probably don't want to have a gas guzzler tax on their products.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I shopped the Legacy wagon in 1990 against the Camry wagon. IIRC, that was the first year of the Legacy. I might even have the brochures tucked away if anyone really needed to know for sure....

    I believe in that same year they renamed the 'basic' Subaru (DL/GL) the Loyale to differentiate it from the new Legacy model.

    Steve
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    coming in the 3rd or 4th quarter of this year! Japan-only?

    Bob

    http://www.apexjapan.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jim: Subaru often uses local dealers to staff auto shows. In NY we spoke to a couple of dealers, as a matter of fact.

    A 2.5l turbo could be a light-pressure variety, but I find the 2.0l JDM turbo far more likely, at least until they shift Forester production to the USA (next generation maybe). They already make the exact car and engine on the same assembly line, how easy is that? Just make more, bring it over.

    Autoweek mentioned they sampled the new Epsilon GM platform and loved it, saying it was night-and-day better than the current GM chassis. I found it relevant because Subaru will use it for the 2005 SUW.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    "Autoweek mentioned they sampled the new Epsilon GM platform and loved it, saying it was night-and-day better than the current GM chassis. "

    Doesn't take much, a schwinn bike might be better, hee hee.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe it is a Schwinn! LOL

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Perfect. I can wait. i WILL wait.

    I've said it before and I will say it again, the cost of testing and federalizing a 2.5t makes NO sense for a small company with a perfectly good, critically acclaimed, already-federalized 2.0t. I'll eat unleavened rally bread if we see a 2.5t.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.apexjapan.com/
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.auto-asia.com/viewcontent.asp?pk=7218
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, question is will we even see them in the US?

    -juice
  • rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    The 2.0 turbo Forester sold in other markets has roughly the same power and torque as the 2.5 normally aspirated North American model. Thus, it would not be an imporvement over the existing 2.5 except perhaps a small ampunt in gas mileage.

    A low pressure 2.5 turbo would not be such a bad idea. It could be designed to use about the same amount of fuel as the normally aspirated 2.5, provide greatly increased torque, and only a little extra horsepower.

    Look at the Saab 2.3 turbo used in the 9-5 Model. 185 hp and 207 ft. lbs. of torque at 1800 rpm that stays at that number to 3500 rpm. [The original normally aspirated version of this engine had 150hp and about 157 ft. lbs. of torque.]

    Plus, with manual trans, EPA fuel economy is 22/32. The Forester fuel mileage would likely be a bit lower owing to larger displacement and all wheel drive, but offset by lower weight.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I thought the new 2.0 turbo Forester had around 217 HP, in Japanese trim?

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I think it depends on the trim.
    One of the UK Foresters has around 160-something h.p.

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    but that was the previous generation model.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The long-rumored restyle of the Impreza will be shown in September at the Paris Auto Show, and to go on sale (in the UK) next January. I bet the U.S.-spec STi will benefit from this revamp.

    Bob

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_index.php?cp=1&page=news%2Fae_news_story.php%3Fid%3D26677
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    Call me crazy (or Al, Or Joe...just don't call me late for dinner), but I like my bug-eyed wagon
    One of millions of Serges!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They look great on the new, soon to be released, MB E-Class; the original Neon, the Mini, and a number of others too.

    Bob
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