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I notice also that Paul confirms my earlier prediction that it's curtains for the Impreza WRC car fairly soon.
<< I really wish I had more time to dedicate to the Subaru forums, I really do try to get in every few days or so. Anyway, as for the credibility issues with what I posted I can not give away my exact job title or position. I can however tell you that my source is a colleague at the company who holds a pretty respectable position. A person that even has the information before the dealer principals on the National council. I'm not here to make stuff up and get everybody excited over nonsense, I am only passing on as much information as is allowed at this time without getting myself in trouble. I have the experience of working within the company and getting there only after putting in some years at the dealer level. And no, I'm not in the mail room.
So as we all know here, vehicle information and specs can be changed from night to day as in all auto companies. Today I spent some time trying to get a little more information to share in this thread, calling other sources at SIA, Prodrive, and STi. All I can tell you is that horsepower figures will change, pricing will not be decided for some time, but the redesigned turbo Legacy has been and is currently testing with almost every engine from the 2.5 turbo to a supercharged H6. Look for the March issue of Motor Trend and you should see a small spy shot. Other rumors of the Impreza being replaced for the WRC are still being explored. It may happen for the 2005 model year when the restlyled Impreza is due to be released. A smaller econo-car similar in size to the Peugeot 206 will most likely be the entry level model as mentioned by Paul in another thread. Keep in mind FHI, and most all Japanese companies, are very wary about releasing information of future products. Just keep your minds open to anything from Subaru, they did send shockwaves with the 300hp 2.5T WRX STi and the phenomenal success of the WRX has only opened a big can of worms. You can bank on the 225hp Forester and the redesigned Legacy being a sure thing for this summer. I have no information yet on the NA EJ25 or the different power levels of the EJ25T in the Legacy. I agree that with the full line receiving turbo engines there will definitely be different HP ratings. I should hopefully have a little more news to share on Monday. >>
Bob
I imagine that sometime this year I'll have to drive a WRX wagon and a Forester turbo back-to-back and decide between the two. If a high-performance non-Outback Legacy wagon shows up, then make it a back-to-back-to-back.
I have to agree with that poster: "Just keep your minds open to anything from Subaru..."
Ed
I do too. Subaru, with its intro of the US-spec STi, has shown it has finally learned the definition of the word "SURPRISE!" I expect many more surprises in the future, hopefully all good.
Maybe there is even a Subie "Wrangler-eater" in the works, which, as you know, is one of my many Subie dreams; and which just about everyone here thinks is just a mere pipe dream on my part. Who knows, maybe it will come true someday... In any event, I have much more hope today, than I did just a couple of months ago; same with other so-called off-the-wall ideas that have been presented here and elsewhere.
Bob
I know (I have taken my grain of salt) that you can't always believe what a salesman says, but since it seems to fall in line with what we keep hearing I thought I'd add a little fuel to the fire.
Lookin' forward to a turbo Legacy Wagon!
-Ian
/crossover market pretty much to themselves, but the competition is intense now. Even Suzuki is in the game with a low priced AWD version of their Aerio. Toyota's got AWD on their new Sienna and Chrysler's Pacifica (Exiga clone?!) will have it too. I think the best thing Subaru could do to make their models more competitive (in addition to having competitive horespower) is give them a wheelbase stretch. Impreza/Forester are a 3-4" below their competitors (Civic/CR-V) and the Legacy is more comparable with a Civic than it's intended competition (Accord, Camry, Altima,6 etc.) They don't have to make the vehicles themselves that much bigger.....just stretch the wheelbase 3-4" and be competitive in back seat room etc. I saw a TS wagon the other day in side profile and was struck by how much front and rear overhang there was. Manufacturers today are pushing the wheels out to the corners for better handling and interior space and Subaru better do the same to remain competitive and keep their cars from looking hopelessly dated. Just my 2 cents.
Bob
• This means the current Legacy/Outback will be on a 4-year product cycle, which is very short by Subaru standards. I can only assume that the reason for this hurry-up, is due to the increased competition in the family sedan catagory. Toyota, Honda and Nissan have made huge strides forward with their most recent updates in this category, and Subaru doesn't want to be left in the dust.
• What about the Baja? Does the Baja soldier on with the old body style? Or does it too get revised on the new Legacy/Outback platform? I can't image Subaru going to all that trouble and expense for a 1-year model; it doesn't make sense. Will the Baja, in it's current body, last two years? I can't see it going beyond two years, as it will look *old* very quickly, sitting next to the all-new Legacy/Outback on the showroom floor.
• I've read that the new Legacy/Outback will be a larger car than the one it's replacing. My guess is that most of this increase will be due to the fact that it is wider. Rumors out of Japan have stated that it will no longer fall into the same size taxing, as the current model. I suspect that it may also be a little longer and with a longer wheelbase. I don't think it will be as large as an Accord or Camry, however. That would be a huge increase in size.
• So if we do get the new Legacy/Outback for '04, does that mean the up-coming 7-passenger crossover also gets moved up a year? Will we now see it as a MY05 model? Will it be introduced at next year's Detroit show?
Bob
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Subaru's Active Valve Control System is simply a hydraulic cam phasing mechanism. It's a lot more like BMW's VANOS than Honda's VTEC, the camshaft is simply advanced or retarded. Since it's DOHC, this can radically alter overlap, controlling power and emissions quite a bit.
VTEC uses hydraulic actuation to switch cam profiles. The camshafts have extra lobes to achieve this, and all of them are never in use. Of course, low-lift and shorter duration lobes are used at high rpm.
-Colin
Bob
I don't think the Legacy is for sure going to a 4 year cycle; I think they may just be bumping up the US release to sync with the JDM release this one time, then solier on with the previous cycle.
Life cycles got stretched in the days of cost cutting, but it appears that those days are over, so Subaru pushed it forward, perhaps. Or maybe Loosh is right and they're just bringing it here earlier this once.
VTD should become the standard AWD system across the board. They talk about the Beauty of AWD in every single ad, but who even knows what that means when they're talking about 7-8 variations of the theme? VC? Auto AWD? With or without Rear LSD? VTD? With or without LSD, or VDC, or ... see what I mean?
All Activity Vehicle? How will it be any different from the Forester? The article implies it's a 2 box design preferred by Europeans, so it could be a very tall microvan, to compete with the Fit/Jazz and Astra van.
-juice
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
-juice
2-box = Station wagon, SUV. (hood but no trunk in side profile)
3-box = Sedan (hood & trunk in side profile)
Bob
blue box- Prodrive WRC trailer
-juice
I think the Crew has had some "silly juice" this morning!
Bob
Checked Forester forum to see if posted there first. Based off the N/A EJ20 X model.
Would be duplicitous here in North America with an already existing package on the Outback IMO.
Ed
-juice
Please tell me we're getting that here.
- Lou
Ed
Mark
I keep bringing it up because I find it really annoying that it is lame excuses like this that are always mentioned to explain us not getting all those cool european models of various brands that we drool over.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Performance sells, but there has to be good value as well. The WRX tripled Impreza sales in the USA. The H6 didn't even hold Outback sales level, they went down slightly. Price had everything to do with it.
Subaru should bring over the models that can offer performance but also value. The STi is great, don't get me wrong, but it would never be a high volume model. The Legacy GT could be.
-juice
There are cheaper aftermarket seats but not even close to the WRX and then you have buy mounting brackets and all the rest of it.
Cheers Pat.
I do so like alcantara though...
Ed
-juice
Hey guys, you're gonna love this!
I stopped by our local Subaru dealership on the way home from school this afternoon trying to find out a little more about the next gen Legacy. I know many of you guys don't trust dealerships much, but they just had a sales rep training session and it gave a little insight on the new Legacy. The following info isn't all for certain, but most about 95% certain.
I was told the Legacy line-up will receive a more powerful 3.0L NA H6 (235-240hp) with a higher placed 2.5T model (he wasn't sure as to the exact specs other than more powerful and responsive than the H6.) Both will be available with the 5-speed automatic featuring Sportshift. The 5-speed manual that is spoken of will be a completely new transmission (just like the new STi 6MT.) I forgot to ask if the manual was going to be offered with the H6 at the same time, but considering a new design, definitely don't rule it out. As for the interior, he said he believes Subaru is going to revert back to the luxury interior features as options once again, giving you the choice of leather/no leather and such. A win-win for all. The only uncertainty is if it will come out this summer as an '04 or next summer as an '05, but he thought he heard it was getting bumped because every other line was and it would be left in the dust (like it normally is.) I guess we will find out within the next few auto shows, so keep your eyes open for anything.
I will be checking back sometime this weekend or next week to see if he has any more info available. But in any case, good news.
Bob
FIVE speed auto? Sweetness. Finally.
I guess the 2.5T will be an upgrade from the H6, so that may be the 350hp STi we've heard rumors about.
But no news about the base engine. I'd love to see 180hp and AVCS.
-juice
-Ian
Another concern is CAFE mileage numbers. More H6s would put them into fine-paying range. I hope they can sort it out somehow, but they do need a heavy volume of 4 bangers to bump up those numbers.
-juice
Bob
I bet the H6 NA will get AVCS standard. I'm sure Subaru needs to do that in order to help emissions.
I wonder what "higher placed" means. Certainly, they wouldn't sell a more upscale model with a 4-banger. Perhaps sportier is the better descriptor.
Summer '05? No way! Summer '04! I really enjoyed driving my rental OB this last week, but it was soooo painful watching the tranny downshift constantly just to keep up with highway traffic in Colorado.
Ken
I was going to go find myself a clean SVX for fun, and a 4WD Jeep Comanche to do the heavy lifting. Sell the Legacy to my fiance, she's been drooling over it ever since I got it.
Now, however, with all the talk of new Legacies with REAL power, well, wow. My greatest hope is that they don't make them too big; I like the size of my '00, and I don't care if it isn't as big as a Nissan or Toyota. The '00 was pressed right out there against the edge of the Japanese tax size limit, which gave it a solid, whoa-there-is-a-bunch-of-stuff-packed-in-there look that I really like. If they loosen up the size and lose that solid look I'll be crestfallen.
Anxious for the photos,
-wdb
-Dennis
Ed
it's going to be completely dependent on FHI's tuning, but AVCS should be capable of helping steady-cruise MPG quite a bit.
I'd say more but I'm pressed for time here at work, so instead <insert cam technical mumbo-jumbo here>
-Colin
Do you all think the 2.0t will go away at some point, with the WRX running the same 2.5t as the Forester? Or will the 2.0t soldier on? If there was a '06 or '07 WRX 2.5t wagon I might have to cave....IF I get priced (and sized) out of Legacy land.
Bob
Bob
Ken
http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/index.asp?id=676
Bob
Ken