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Comments
-Dennis
If the Legacy is introduced this summer, it will be for Japanese consumption. My guess is it will be shown at next year's Detroit show (a year from right now) as a MY05 model, and will be on sale here, a year from next spring or summer.
Bob
Today you can get a Premium model with leather and automatic for $24 grand. So gimme a turbo minus those two things for close to the same price.
-juice
Bob
I'm hoping for 200hp or a little more, at the prices above, with the same equipment from the Premium model (but no leather and no automatic).
If it only comes with leather and auto, it'll be $29,995, watch.
-juice
Bob
I just hope I can afford one. If they go too overboard I may end up waiting for the 2005 SUW.
-juice
Since larger cylinders aren't quite as efficient as smaller cylinders, my guess would be in the 215-220 range, all things being equal.
Bob
I wonder how Subaru will position the turbo Forester, however. Will it be a plush premium model to top the current XS or a sporty alternative? The leather and auto tranny would do better for the former.
Ken
As to GM parts in the Forester, probably no more than are in the Impreza. Both these vehicles come from Japan, and are made in the same factory.
I thought you had ruled out the Forester, due to its higher MSRP?!?!
Bob
- D
They're pretty close actually.
On nhtsa.dot.gov, the '02 Forester got 4 stars for front driver and passerger. The '02/'03 Impreza gets 4 for the driver and 5 for the passenger. For the rear side tests, the Impreza gets a 4 while the Forester gets a 5.
On iihs.org the '02 Forester and Impreza both get "Good" overall.
-Dennis
Is that not available in Canada?
Bob
Cheers Pat.
All Foresters have plastic lower body cladding, of some sort.
Bob
For clarification, Subaru just saves a few bucks on the X model by not painting it.
I'll absolutely scream if the turbo Forester doesn't come with a MT option!!!!!!!! I'm hoping that Subaru goes the "sporty" route and just offer a turbo without leather or a bunch of other bells & whistles that only serve to increase the purchase price.
-Frank P.
Bob
-mike
I realize pigs are more likely to fly, but that's what I want. I still have a soft spot for the unpainted cladding on the bargain Foresters. Imagine, you could get a turbo 5 speed for about $20 grand!
Subaru won't do it because most people will be willing to pay $25k or so for a loaded up turbo, myself included. Though it'll be a much tougher sell to the wife, who wants a BIG vehicle for that kind of money.
Monica: that lower cladding helps it ace both the IIHS bumper basher test and crash tests, something extremely difficult to do. There is no metal behind it on the bumpers because it's not needed. There is sheetmetal on the lower doors, though.
-juice
I realize pigs are more likely to fly, but that's what I want. I still have a soft spot for the unpainted cladding on the bargain Foresters. Imagine, you could get a turbo 5 speed for about $20 grand! >>
If it did happen, it would be segment first. Usually turbos get packaged as top-dollar models. I think Subaru could pull a real "fast one" (pun intended!) on the competition by offering this engine in bottom-feeder models, as well as top-dollar models.
Bob
-juice
Premium options have a synergistic effect. The more you bundling together in one vehicle, the easier it is for a manufacturer to sell a bunch together at a higher price than each alone. It's kind of like those infomercials -- "but wait, there's more!".
Bundling options is a very common pratcice. We even do it with our multi-million dollar test equipment.
Ken
-mike
• Subaru seems to like to work in units of 500cc, hence my prediction for a 3.5L. Currently there are 1.5L, 2.0L, 2.5L, and 3.0L engines already on the market. Yes, there is also a 1.6L H-4 for Europe, and we had the the 2.2L for some time, but I think Subaru's first "instinct" is to work in 500cc increments.
• Nissan has a superb 3.5, with various horsepower ratings, that begin around 240 and go up from there.
• Honda has squeezed 240 HP out of their 3.0, but then again, Honda always get more HP out of any given engine size.
• Toyota/Lexus have just introduced a new 3.3L V6 for the new '04 Sienna and RX330. Surely that engine will work its way into the Camry and other models too.
• I think a 3.5L H-6 might appeal more to customers of the upcoming 7-passenger crossover, than a turbo 3.0L H-6, no matter how good that turbo engine may be. I really think there will always be people who will be suspicious of turbos, especially those who may be attracted to this type of vehicle.
• The new 7-passenger crossover will inevitably be compared to the 3.5L Honda Pilot, the 3.5L Nissan Murano, etc. The larger 3.5L H-6 will make it easier for Subaru to compete.
• I think Subaru may feel pressure to develop a 3.5L engine, if for no other reason than to match bragging rights with the others.
• It's probably cheaper to build a simpler 3.5L H-6, than to build a far more complicated 3.0L H-6 turbo.
• Hopefully Subaru has learned its lesson of not offering enough engine from the "git-go," with the Baja. If that vehicle had a more powerful engine at the startup, I'm sure the sales would be much stronger than they are.
Also, I would be very hesitant to say it will never happen, or that it is very unlikely. Remember, there were a lot of people who said a 2.5L 300 HP turbo would never happen too. Finally, I don't think a 3.5 H-6 will replace the current 3.0 H-6, although it could in certain markets. I just see it as an additional engine, added to Subaru's current engine portfolio.
Bob
-Ian
I just hope SOA is listening. Speaking of which, Patti, I hope you're back to snuff. We haven't heard from you in some time.
Bob
Bob
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30- 3922
Bob
We can see the GM push happening already. This IMHO is not a good sign for 10 years down the road.
-mike
This got me to thinking: What if the neo-SVX (or whatever it will be called) that GM and Subaru are working on, had gullwing side doors?
The gullwing is remembered very fondly because of the MB 300SL from the 1950s, and I'm sure Subaru would want to offer a feature to make it unique. Gullwing doors could just do the trick. Unlike the old SVX's goofy side windows, gullwing doors offer real practical features, one being that it works for both front and rear passengers.
If you think about it, a gullwing is based on the same principle being used on wagon hatches. A number of Japanese-only wagons, as well as the new Dodge Magnum concept wagon that was just shown at the Detroit show, have rear hatches that open well into the roof, just like a gullwing. The same principle could be applied to side doors.
One of the issues that was raised in the VW Lupo article was that of safety. I the car rolled on its roof, how would you open the doors? That was answered by VW's big cheeze, by saying, the windows would pop out via a airbag-type firing mechanism. Might just work...
Bob
I REALLY like this material. I loved it on the Montero that I test drove a couple of months ago. It looks very upscale, and it very much resembles suede. It's comfortable, and grips you like glue. I'm really glad they opted for this, rather than leather.
Bob
I'd like to see gullwing doors, they help achieve similar aerodynamics.
-mike
-mike
Subaru also had the problem of not being able to "sell" the advantages of those windows to customers. A lot of potential SVX owners just did not like those windows. Subaru lost a lot of customers because of those windows.
Bob
I don't pay tolls so it's not an issue for me (EZ pass is everywhere from DC->Maine and as far West as Ohio)
My windows are also tinted now so the black line is not as obvious. Most people I've spoken to are annoyed for about 1 week, then your eyes are trained to not notice the line kinda like wearing glasses for the first time.
-mike
As to getting used to the black line, yeah I supposed so. The problem was not enough people bought into the idea in the first place. By that I mean they were turned off in the showroom, so they never became owners in the first place, or had a chance to get used to the windows.
It was not a good marketing move. Subaru ended shooting themselves in the foot with those windows. I think if the SVX had conventional windows, it would have stood a much better chance of surviving in the marketplace.
Bob
-mike
Bob
-mike
Bob
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=&content_code=07971929
Bob
"Sources say Saab will sign a deal in March with Subaru holding company Fuji Heavy Industries to build a Subaru Impreza-like car with a boxer-four engine and tag it as the 9-2. "
-Dennis
If this proves successful, does that mean we'll see more Saabarus in the future? And if so, will that put a ceiling on Subaru in terms of how far up-market the Subaru brand can go?
Bob