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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ed,

    The Forester turbo, according to the Alaska sighting, is supposed to have the 2.5 Turbo engine as well. I wonder if it's a detuned US-spec STi engine. I can't find anything on the Forester at this moment -- too much noise over the STi!

    Have you seen the "Users Browsing this Forum" over at the i-club STi forum? It fills the entire screen!!

    Ken
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Oh it just boggles the mind, doesn't it? This would seem to open the door for an introduction of an STi model in each product line.

    Now I can't see myself in this WRX STi, but I can still see myself going over to "the dark side" as juice calls it. On the other hand a performance Forester promises to be more stealthy than either WRX or a performance Legacy. It makes me think of an episode from "The Simpsons" in which Bart tells Lisa that he'd like to be reincarnated as a butterfly. When Lisa asks him why, Bart replies, "Because nobody ever suspects the butterfly!"

    Ed
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Several cases of complete loss of bladder control have been reported over at nasioc, resulting in embarrassing work-environment situations...


    http://impreza.subaru.com/microsites/impreza/wrxsti/wrxsti.jsp



    Base WRX still comes with 16" wheels. :(


    Bob

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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ditto here, Ed. While the STi is one serious monster, it's way overkill for what I would need it for -- and that's before even considering the price. I can still see myself going over to the dark side. In fact, I looked at the standard WRX specs first when I went to that Impreza microsite (no 17" wheels standard :-( )

    If the Turbo Forester does use the 2.5L AVCS Turbo, I would imagine some parts swapping would yield one stealthy ride. Hmmmmm.....

    Ken
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I would be tickled pink with a 275-ish hp Legacy. MMMMM!

    I actually didn't think Subaru was going to pull off 'beating' the EVO, but from the looks of it, they nailed a bullseye!

    -Brian
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    ...was this quote re the now "base" WRX:

    "Also new for 2004 is the availability of a power glass moon roof, rear spoiler and all-weather package consisting of heated front seats, outside mirrors and windshield wiper de-icer."

    Woo-hoo! This victim of male pattern baldness could care less about the moon roof, but the Cold Weather Package is the one thing I'd miss most from my Forester if I went WRX...that is, until now! Thanks, SoA!

    Ed
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Nice catch, Ed -- I didn't see that. The CWP is a must for me too!

    Not that I want it, but was leather an option?

    Ken
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If it came with those gray Euro-17" wheels, it would be perfect! I hope those wheels will be available at least as an option.

    This is indeed a great day for Subie fans!

    Bob
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I can't believe it. $32K, huh? I need to find a new line of work just to justify a car purchase!

    Wonder if that 2.5t will drop into a BD Legacy? :D
    I mean really, how long is it going to be before these start getting wrapped around trees? Surely a donor car will appear in fairly short order. :D

    Ooohboy howdy now I REALLY can't wait for a turbo Legacy!
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    now that the STi is officially "confirmed" to have a 2.5 turbo, I'd say things are looking up for those predicting 2.5 low-boost 2.5 turbos for the Forester and Baja, not to mention the Legacy too.

    Bob
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Don't forget that the 6-speed manual will also be stocked here in the US too. Wonder how much those will be going for.

    Man, this is getting exciting! Where's that turbo Forester?

    Ken
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    300HP 2.5L turbo with AVCS? hmm, maybe I'll make a return to subaru next year.

    ;-)

    -Colin
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    C32 AMG Bob. Or is it increasing to 3.6L next year?

    And I'm sure someone will compare it to the $100k 911 turbo not that comparision will serve any purpose other than to inflate a few heads...

    -Colin
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I knew it was C3-something...

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/83142/page030.html


    Quote: "About the only enthusiasts not overwhelmingly excited to see the new STi are the ones who already have their deposit down on a Lancer Evolution."


    Bob

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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    I can;t wait to see Forester / Legacy Turbo !

    Frankly, I would love to see Outback Turbo that can kick Audi, XC etc !!!

    I hope subaru won;t stop the turbos just to Impreza line.......folks any scoop ? So, we have to wait for Chicago Auto Show to see ?
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the STi's MSRP just went up a few $K, in the past few hours! ;)

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/83142/page036.html
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm sure the number of deposits have gone up too! I'll be we'll see a surge of initial buyers much in the fashion of the WRX.

    Way to go, Subaru. Very nice intro. Good product positioning. Rather than going head-to-head with Mitsubishi, they've sandwiched them with the WRX and STi.

    Ken
    (giving a standing ovation)
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I'll be going with camera in hand, as usual. ;-)

    -Brian
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    couldn't agree more. Now to wait for my turbo Legacy. On the other hand, I bet bugeye WRX wagons are about to become bargains used......
    ;-)
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Since Detroit focused on the STi, and only a tad on the WRX, I bet more play will be given to the entire Impreza lineup at Chicago.

    I also wouldn't surprised if the Forester/Baja turbo intros are pushed back to the NY show in April, if that's the case.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Since the Baja and Foresters are getting turbos for '04, will the '04 Legacy (in its lame duck year) also get a turbo? I think it just might...

    Even though the Legacy will get a turbo in '05, I just can't see the Legacy suffering through yet another year as Subaru's premier after-thought—especially now that every (other) Subie line will have at least one turbo being offered.

    Bob
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Here's what I wouldn't mind seeing for the '04 Legacy GT:

    ()2.0 turbo or detuned 2.5t with around 230 hp
    ()Sport seats from the WRX
    ()6MT (5MT ok too) and the new sport shift auto as an option
    ()18mm swaybar and a firmer suspension, maybe even an STi option available from the dealer. 17" an option also (although I'd love to see them standard, that would bump the MSRP too far up)
    ()sunroof
    ()WAGON as well as sedan
    () priced in the mid $20k range, ala wrx.

    Leather, premium stereo, OnStar, 6 disc changer stability control, yada yada can all be reserved for the Limited as far as I am concerned.

    This would be the Legacy equivalent of the WRX. Then bring a B4 type car in '05 as a step up in power and luxury, but keep the turbo GT for brand-loyal(e) folks like me who can't play over $26K or so.
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    ...unless they (surprise us and) decide to drop the H6 in it instead. I'm very curious as to what they (hopefully) do to the '04 Legacy.

    -Brian
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hard to think of a 300 HP 2.5 as being de-tuned, but consider this:

    The 2.0 STi in Japan puts out 276 HP. If you scale up 2.0 to 2.5, it's a 1.25% increase. So, if you scale up 276, by 1.25%, you end up with 345 HP.

    I know that larger cylinders are less efficient than smaller cylinders, but even still and allowing for that, if the 2.5 were tuned as highly as the 2.0, you might expect 335 - 340 HP.

    I believe the Japanese have a higher octane gas, so that may be part of the conversion issue. But what about Europe? How much power does the European STi make? Is it the same as in Japan?

    Bob
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I don't even remember if I posted anything yet in all of the excitement! We should really be thanking SoA/FHI for listening.

    Bob, the UK Sti puts out 261 bhp.
    SoA should at least put the H6 in the GT this year. After they squeeze another 10-20 h.p. out of it.

    -Dennis
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Everyone knows (or should know!) that surprises can be either pleasant or disappointing. Consider the following:

    • STX > Baja = disappointing

    • STi (world-market version) > STi (North American version) = pleasant (how's that for an understatement!)

    Bottom line: If you promise—or even hint of promising something, you had better "over-deliver" rather than "under-deliver."

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    326.25

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that the fog lamps on the new US-spec WRX are smaller than those found in other markets. I wonder why?

    Bob
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    On Nasioc of all places! :-)

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=297438&referrerid=767


    -Dennis

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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is the Forester Turbo in the US Market VERIFIED yet or still rumor?

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    unofficially verified, just like the STi was prior to yesterday. ;)

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just checking. So reall only the STi is the "officially" sponsored "new" engine option for '04 as of yet. No verification on the Forester or Baja getting a Turbot.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Baja turbo *was* mentioned in the SIA Newsletter, last month. I have a PDF of it, so I know that's a fact.

    Bob
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    mmmmmmm turbot and rally bread.
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I haven't seen an issue of Drive in a while....
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Probably ran out. It only lasts 3 years from your new purchase.

    -mike
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well it wouldn't be the first time that an engine/model that was mentioned to dealers was scrapped before it was officially announced. I'll wait for the official announcement before placing any bets.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    only to SIA plant employees, who will be making it.

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    So even further removed... I just like to have it in public view before getting all worked up over it.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?ThreadID=143750
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    jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    Saw your question on the Daker Rally last night. Thought that was a good question. I no longer trust (in a very good way) any Subaru Representative, no matter how loosely connected, that says, "currently no plans for that". :)

    Which brings up another thought that I had last night. What does everybody think yesterday's surprise might mean for that rumored H6t that the Australian motor builder was so adamant about? Could we really see the Legacy (or this mystery SVX flagship I hear about every few months) further separated from the WRX by this H6t? Oh, man, this is a great time for Subaru freaks. The days of putzing up mountain passes in mid 80's GL-10's w/ 90 hp seem so far back now. :)

    Jim
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Actually I had several, but that was the only one I got posted. I knew it was a long shot, at best. Even so, I decided to ask it. If nothing else, it might "plant some seeds" in the minds of those who do make those decisions.

    As to the H-6 turbo, I have absolutely no doubt that it will occur. It's just a matter of when? Next year? 2 years? 5 years? Who knows, but I'd bet my first-born, that it will happen.

    Whatever vehicle the H-6 turbo ends up in, will be a luxury-sport, or GT; not a hard-core bare-knuckle street fighter like the WRX-STi.

    Bob
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    paisan - There were pics of it posted on nasioc. It was with the STi in Alaska.

    -Dennis
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I was really surprised that hardly anything was asked about the new Impreza lineup! I thought that would have been a no-brainer, oh well...

    I was also disappointed, but not surprised, as to how many idiots showed up...

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    turbo Forester pixs and an Alaskan eye-witness as to the fact that it was a 2.5.

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And I have pics of a 3.3l engine in an XT6 being tested in '92 as well, and pics of an H12 subaru engine. That doesn't mean we will get it.... Just saying that until it's "official" it is purely rumor.

    -mike
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Yeah, I sure hope Subaru puts a 2.5 turbo in the '04 Legacy. Sad to say, but the current Legacy line up will be overshadowed by the new Impreza line-up and the turbo Forester. I think the Legacy GT with VTD and the current sport-shift would do well with the 2.5T.

    Missed the chat last night. Was there anyone from Subaru that had driven the US-spec STi and the JDM-spec STi that could share comments?

    I wonder if the 2.5 Turbo output is limited by the design of the block. Isn't the EJ25 series basically an overbored 2.2? Even with a semi-closed deck, I'm sure that's going to hurt it's ultimate strength.

    Ken
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If they bring over an H6t, you can bet that the Trooper and SVX will be sold. :)

    -mike
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