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Comments
'85 TOYOTA TERCEL 4WD wagon, up to 280K:
- 1st muffler at 60K, regularly again every 50-60K
- 1st brakes at 90K
- Preventative replacement of timing belt & water pump at 105K and 200K
- Radiators at 130K & 220K
- Gas tank reline at 180K
- Clutch at 160K
- Power steering rack hydraulic tubing assembly at 260K
- Power steering pump dead at 270K (not fixed)
- Blown head gasket at just under 280K; RETIREMENT: Car rusty, needing extensive repairs costing much more than it's worth. Electrics, trans & drivetrain very solid. Donated to the Lung Association for a tax write-off.
'92 SUBARU LEGACY AWD WAGON; up to 196K:
- First brake job at 60K. Again at 120 & 180K
- P M replacement of timing belts / water pumps at 70-80K again at around 150K
- Radiator at around 170K
- Automatic transmission rebuilt at 176K (probably due to neglect in changing tranny fluid, teaching kids to drive)
- Center AWD clutch packs getting tight around 180K - not replaced yet; big $
- 196K: Still running OK as second car, but feeling a little tired. Engine and drivetrain sound except for tight AWD noticeable in tight turns. Very little rust. NEVER had to replace the muffler.
'99 SUBARU FORESTER S Automatic(replaced the '85 Toyota), up to 58K:
- Needed major 4 wheel alignment at 49K
- Cruise control broke at 55K
- First brake job at 57K
- CURRENTLY: Our main car. Comparing across time to my old Toyota, I've had a few more repair incidents by this mileage, but nothing shocking (except maybe the cruise control, which the dealer SOA is helping with).
BOTTOM LINE? We like the Subarus for their package of handling, AWD, power, safety, utility and price. I looked at the RAV4 in '99; it was too lightweight and slow. The 4Runner was WAY too expensive. So I bought the Forester, which both of us still really love to drive. I'm willing to live with a few more repairs, and a slightly less exemplary build quality. I expect the Forester to go 200K+.
That is not to say when the next time we buy a car, we won't look at Toyotas. But our choice will depend on what each manufacturer has to offer, at what price, and what delight & utility the designs of those future models bring.
John
-Colin
Thank you for writing an informative, historical perspective of Toyota and Subaru reliability. I think this is the first post I've encountered in the two years I've been on Edmunds that has high-mileage maintenance details. Thanks for taking the time to contribute. In fact, I think I'll add it to the links in my profile.
..Mike
..Mike
Bob
http://www.subaru.co.jp/
Talked to a guy this week who just bought a '97 OB. It was a "bargain" and "just broke in" at 96k miles. He's replacing his '93 Legacy wagon that has 264k miles on it!
HTH,
Theo
I think the catch with Toyotas is that for the most part, personality has been exorcised completely. At least their mainstream models. That's just fine for a lot of folks, mind you.
I just like the character every Soob comes with. If you were blindfolded you could not tell a Honda from a Toyota, or Mitsubishi from Nissan. But you could spot the Soob from a mile away.
Yet unlike most other quirky makes, Subaru still manages to be better than average in reliability and durability. It's that combination that is sweet. Not boring, but not so exciting that you know the mechanic by name.
-juice
You touched on the word for Subaru's stock in trade: personality. I think FHI, as a smaller company, has managed to keep a good dose of character (and common sense, whatever that is) in the line - perhaps out of necessity. Not sure "quirky" applies very much these days - I'd be tempted to say interesting. Nothing quirky or odd about the sound and power of the 2.5 liter H4 or its turbocharged 2.0 brethren...
I remember in '96, the Outback made a major / fortunate difference in bolstering Subaru's place in the North American market. Subaru's rallying efforts are a strong factor as well; what better way to breed agility and toughness into the breed?
Another smaller-company benefit is having Patti from SOA in Town Hall. Doubt that occurs too often with the big outfits.
With all the money cars cost, and all the time I spend in the driver's seat - an enjoyable, interesting personality is a must for me.
John
Thank you for the info. Subarus are definitely worth a look.
Leo
-Colin
Not that you should expect to find one for that! $400 over is the current low bid, and I wonder if that dealership can fill all those orders without a 6 month wait list.
-juice
http://202.217.201.209/showroom/imp_s/
Some unique features:
- Suretrack LSD (rear = standard, front = optional)
- 280 ps/38.0 kg-m turbo engine
- Close ratio 6-speed MT
- 17" Brembo brakes
- Super Sports ABS
Ken
I noticed that the SZ model has 225/45x17 tires mounted on 17x7.5 rims. Are those larger than the regular STi?
Bob
I'll be back on Saturday, March 3 and I'll let you know how the trip went.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
I just took the Legacy GT Limited up for a trip across Highway 49 Sunday (It goes up to Coloma, where Sutters Mill is, where Gold was discovered) and its sooooo fun to drive that car on the twisties!
Those HIDs definitely look cool. They call attention with their shape, then they just plain look trick.
-juice
Actually the US WRX also looks better with the lights lit. DRLs are standard, too.
-jucie
Cheers!
Paul
To the best of my knowledge, the Blitzen has only been sold in Japan and New Zealand—in very limited numbers. Co-developed with Porsche, it therefore seems natural to show this vehicle in Europe.
It appears to me that Subaru is testing the waters to expand production for this vehicle. Hmmm... I wonder if it might show up at the NY Auto Show too?? Better still—I wonder if it will end up in our showrooms??
Bob
http://www.autonewseurope.com/2001geneva/subaru227.htm
Note that Porsche didn't feel it was necessary to touch the engine!
It's a long shot, though. Legacys sold in the US are made in the US. No 2.0l engine is made here.
They could import it but the price would be high.
-juice
http://www.autonewseurope.com/2001geneva/subarublitzen.htm
Patti- Pleeease... this is what we want here in the good old U S of A!
Bob
Ah, I'll take a different color than hot orange, though.
-juice
Bob
What would it take to develop/produce a 2.0 turbo motor here in the states? Or some other flavor of motor (2.5 turbo, etc.)
-Brian
Bob
From a styling standpoint, I think the "restraint" used (grille, badging) is superb. Clearly Porsche's input is evident here.
Bob
Let's see what they use for the ST-X. If it gets a 2.5l turbo, as some rumors claim, that engine would likely go into the Legacy.
I can't imagine it would be cost effective to have that many engines built in one plant. The volumes for the Blitzen are relatively low.
Bob: minus the color, I agree.
-juice
I believe in Japan it's offered in a variety of colors. My choice would probably be either white or black. Or, perhaps silver—since Porsche is involved.
Did you notice the similarity of the bumper (scoops & utter and absolute smoothness) to those used on Porsches? I wonder if it has HID headlamps with integrated fog lamps, since there are no fog lamps in the bumper. It's hard to tell by this photo.
Bob
I like the front end, too.
-juice
Subaru engineering is good, and the people behind it are good. They build good motors, good transmissions, good suspensions. They build world-beating rally cars. They build the most popular cars on several continents. They don't need to sell their cars as having been designed or "improved" by someone else. They don't need to compare their cars to other cars as thought they were playing catch-up. IMHO others are catching up to *them*.
Subarus are unique. Subarus stand on their own merits. A hot rod Subaru don't need no steenkeeng Porsche imprimatur to make me think it is a good car. I already think that.
Ranting mildly,
-wdb
Bob
That's where Porsche can come into play. They breed their cars on the Autobahn and on the track, so high speed tuning by Porsche could make sense. Maybe aerodynamics too. Things like drag, lift, frontal area, etc.
But you're right. It's all about the marketing, throw in the "Porsche" name a few times and the kids go giddy.
Remember the Isuzu Impulse, tuned by Lotus? They put several badges all over the car. A guy I met actually removed all the other labels, so people would think it was a Lotus. Who fell for it? Maybe a couple of teenage girls, but that's about it.
-juice
Do the 2-3 mpg differences (sticker) throughout the Subaru line-up affect CAFE that much?
From the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/highway1/20010221/t000015406.html
California's strict emissions rules and federal fuel-economy standards are keeping Subaru from bringing in more of its higher-powered vehicles. "The ST-X will be 4-cylinder," Saito said. "We thought a 6-cylinder would be better but, for example, we've already taken 200 to 300 orders for the WRX [and] if we sell too many, then we won't meet our corporate fuel-economy requirements. It's complicated."
Bob
-mike
I noticed that the fuel requirement for the WRX is 91 octane. This is somewhat of a conundrum since (at least locally) octane ratings are 87,89 and 93. It seems logical to me that mixing a half tank of 89 and half 93 would yeild 91. Is there more to the equation than what seems apparent? Any comments .....
- hutch
Oh and congratulations!
Dennis
- hutch
Solution: bring only 5 speeds! Fine with me!
CAFE is 27.5 IIRC, and Subaru was borderline when they only offered the 2.2l and 2.5l. I don't know how they'll meet it now. I guess the 2.5l itself did get slightly better numbers when the Phase II version came out.
It'll be close, though.
Hutch: for the WRX, I'd use the best gas you can find. Turbos need special care and have a propensity to ping, so I wouldn't take any chances.
Besides, up in your neck of the woods gas is cheap. Try paying $1.939 for premium near my house! What is it around you? $1.70 maybe?
-juice
That orange-red is definately an eye catcher. I'd prefer a dark color: black, blue, etc. Dark metallic red - oh, wait, I already have Winestone!
-Brian
Bob
Wasn't the STX slated for a 4-cylinder (2.5L Superchared) from the get-go? I don't think I've ever read that it would get the H6.
A recent conversation I had with a Subaru Technical Manager implied that the STX would get the same 2.0 turbo instead.
Ken
right hand drive for normal people
cheers
gus
I have to admit, I'm getting a little anxious.
- hutch
I know how they can meet CAFE. Bring back the Justy! Isn't it available in the UK?
Dennis