Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    I put on 25-28K /year mostly highway, in upstate New York. Leomort - my take on your question about Subaru longevity is this: Subarus are more than durable enough (as Juice described in post 936) to make over 200K with perhaps some major repairs, while Toyotas are probably going to get there with fewer repairs along the way; perhaps a little more reliable/trouble-free. There are trade-offs in design and packaging between the different models. Our experience (based on regular maintenance) has been:

    '85 TOYOTA TERCEL 4WD wagon, up to 280K:
    - 1st muffler at 60K, regularly again every 50-60K
    - 1st brakes at 90K
    - Preventative replacement of timing belt & water pump at 105K and 200K
    - Radiators at 130K & 220K
    - Gas tank reline at 180K
    - Clutch at 160K
    - Power steering rack hydraulic tubing assembly at 260K
    - Power steering pump dead at 270K (not fixed)
    - Blown head gasket at just under 280K; RETIREMENT: Car rusty, needing extensive repairs costing much more than it's worth. Electrics, trans & drivetrain very solid. Donated to the Lung Association for a tax write-off.

    '92 SUBARU LEGACY AWD WAGON; up to 196K:
    - First brake job at 60K. Again at 120 & 180K
    - P M replacement of timing belts / water pumps at 70-80K again at around 150K
    - Radiator at around 170K
    - Automatic transmission rebuilt at 176K (probably due to neglect in changing tranny fluid, teaching kids to drive)
    - Center AWD clutch packs getting tight around 180K - not replaced yet; big $
    - 196K: Still running OK as second car, but feeling a little tired. Engine and drivetrain sound except for tight AWD noticeable in tight turns. Very little rust. NEVER had to replace the muffler.

    '99 SUBARU FORESTER S Automatic(replaced the '85 Toyota), up to 58K:
    - Needed major 4 wheel alignment at 49K
    - Cruise control broke at 55K
    - First brake job at 57K
    - CURRENTLY: Our main car. Comparing across time to my old Toyota, I've had a few more repair incidents by this mileage, but nothing shocking (except maybe the cruise control, which the dealer SOA is helping with).

    BOTTOM LINE? We like the Subarus for their package of handling, AWD, power, safety, utility and price. I looked at the RAV4 in '99; it was too lightweight and slow. The 4Runner was WAY too expensive. So I bought the Forester, which both of us still really love to drive. I'm willing to live with a few more repairs, and a slightly less exemplary build quality. I expect the Forester to go 200K+.

    That is not to say when the next time we buy a car, we won't look at Toyotas. But our choice will depend on what each manufacturer has to offer, at what price, and what delight & utility the designs of those future models bring.

    John
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Interesting post... And you put a heck of a lot more miles on your cars than I do, John. ;-)

    -Colin
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Hi John,

    Thank you for writing an informative, historical perspective of Toyota and Subaru reliability. I think this is the first post I've encountered in the two years I've been on Edmunds that has high-mileage maintenance details. Thanks for taking the time to contribute. In fact, I think I'll add it to the links in my profile.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    SOJ has just added another WRX STi model. Ken, need your translation skills again. Thanks in advance.

    Bob

    http://www.subaru.co.jp/
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    Our VDC squeaks every morning backing out of the garage. Patti explained on another forum that the stock pads are higher metallic composition (for durability) than the average. They quickly build up oxide that is rubbed off quickly.

    Talked to a guy this week who just bought a '97 OB. It was a "bargain" and "just broke in" at 96k miles. He's replacing his '93 Legacy wagon that has 264k miles on it!

    HTH,
    Theo
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    John: very interesting and useful post, thanks.

    I think the catch with Toyotas is that for the most part, personality has been exorcised completely. At least their mainstream models. That's just fine for a lot of folks, mind you.

    I just like the character every Soob comes with. If you were blindfolded you could not tell a Honda from a Toyota, or Mitsubishi from Nissan. But you could spot the Soob from a mile away.

    Yet unlike most other quirky makes, Subaru still manages to be better than average in reliability and durability. It's that combination that is sweet. Not boring, but not so exciting that you know the mechanic by name.

    -juice
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    Juice -

    You touched on the word for Subaru's stock in trade: personality. I think FHI, as a smaller company, has managed to keep a good dose of character (and common sense, whatever that is) in the line - perhaps out of necessity. Not sure "quirky" applies very much these days - I'd be tempted to say interesting. Nothing quirky or odd about the sound and power of the 2.5 liter H4 or its turbocharged 2.0 brethren...

    I remember in '96, the Outback made a major / fortunate difference in bolstering Subaru's place in the North American market. Subaru's rallying efforts are a strong factor as well; what better way to breed agility and toughness into the breed?
    Another smaller-company benefit is having Patti from SOA in Town Hall. Doubt that occurs too often with the big outfits.

    With all the money cars cost, and all the time I spend in the driver's seat - an enjoyable, interesting personality is a must for me.

    John
  • soon2bsubeesoon2bsubee Member Posts: 137
    Anybody know where I can find the invoice prices for the WRX's?
  • leomortleomort Member Posts: 453
    John,

    Thank you for the info. Subarus are definitely worth a look.

    Leo
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Search for it in the WRX Countdown forum of the iClub messageboard. (www.i-club.com)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    About $2000 below MSRP.

    Not that you should expect to find one for that! $400 over is the current low bid, and I wonder if that dealership can fill all those orders without a 6 month wait list.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I was looking around SOJ's website today and came across some new content on the Impreza WRX STi S:


    http://202.217.201.209/showroom/imp_s/


    Some unique features:


    - Suretrack LSD (rear = standard, front = optional)

    - 280 ps/38.0 kg-m turbo engine

    - Close ratio 6-speed MT

    - 17" Brembo brakes

    - Super Sports ABS


    image


    Ken

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thanks for the update. Have you been able to figure out the difference between the WRX/STi/SZ, and the regular WRX/STi? Or, is what you posted different from the regular STi?

    I noticed that the SZ model has 225/45x17 tires mounted on 17x7.5 rims. Are those larger than the regular STi?

    Bob
  • scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    I'm taking my VDC up to the Sierras again. This time Yosemite and then to Tahoe. Must go through two passes. I checked on both and right now 4x4/awd with chains only. Now I checked my owners manual and you can not put chains on the VDC. I checked with the Subaru Service Department and they repeated the same warning. I'll make an attempt to drive up there (without the chains of course) and see if the CHP will let me through.
    I'll be back on Saturday, March 3 and I'll let you know how the trip went.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Wow! I'm blown away. That picture of the Impreza looks excellent! It is the best angle that I've seen yet. The most stunning part for me is the HID lights, and for some weird reason the STI foglamp covers. Heck, even the pink badge looks good! I could do without the gold wheels though ;-)


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
  • kostamojen2kostamojen2 Member Posts: 284
    ...I believe you can use Snow Wires? Im not sure of the name exactly, but its wires instead of chains that go around the tires. I think its in your manual as well, not sure.

    I just took the Legacy GT Limited up for a trip across Highway 49 Sunday (It goes up to Coloma, where Sutters Mill is, where Gold was discovered) and its sooooo fun to drive that car on the twisties! :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Low profile cable-type chains, you mean. Check your auto supplier for a set of those.

    Those HIDs definitely look cool. They call attention with their shape, then they just plain look trick.

    -juice
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    It's an STi model for goodness sakes! I can't remember any ugly STi cars....except for that whacky S201 or something.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ken sent me a video of the JDM WRX, and it shows it in the rain, with the HIDs on. Looks even better when they are lit.

    Actually the US WRX also looks better with the lights lit. DRLs are standard, too.

    -jucie
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Don't know if this offer is available where the rest of you are, but Les Schwab's tire centers (out here in the wild, wild west) usually have a deal whereby you buy a set of chains at the beginning of the winter season - if you don't use them, you can take them back in the spring for a full refund. Would be useful for those times when you're at least required to carry chains - I'll bet the gendarmes won't know that you can't use them on your car - all they care about is you're obeying the law which requires you to carry them!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    In a surprise move, Subaru has shown the twin-turbo Legacy Blitzen at the Geneva Auto Show.

    To the best of my knowledge, the Blitzen has only been sold in Japan and New Zealand—in very limited numbers. Co-developed with Porsche, it therefore seems natural to show this vehicle in Europe.

    It appears to me that Subaru is testing the waters to expand production for this vehicle. Hmmm... I wonder if it might show up at the NY Auto Show too?? Better still—I wonder if it will end up in our showrooms??

    Bob

    http://www.autonewseurope.com/2001geneva/subaru227.htm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tuned for 260hp in this case. Interesting.

    Note that Porsche didn't feel it was necessary to touch the engine!

    It's a long shot, though. Legacys sold in the US are made in the US. No 2.0l engine is made here.

    They could import it but the price would be high.

    -juice
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    That is one wagon I don't want to mess with. =)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Mike- Think something like this (the Blitzen) could fit into your future family plans? :)

    Patti- Pleeease... this is what we want here in the good old U S of A!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Whoa! I didn't think it would be a wagon! Now I want one.

    Ah, I'll take a different color than hot orange, though.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The recently re-introduced Blitzen (in Japan) is offered in both sedan and wagon. The (old) original Blitzen was only offered in sedan format. Did you notice that the steering is on the right, for the home market?

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Regarding the Blitzen:
    What would it take to develop/produce a 2.0 turbo motor here in the states? Or some other flavor of motor (2.5 turbo, etc.)

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They could pop the EPA-certified WRX turbo into the current Legacy for a quick fix.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think, with Subaru's fascination with designer labels (MOMO, BBS), the "Porsche"-inspired Blitzen would be natural fit here and elsewhere. it seems like the natural next performance progression—post WRX.

    From a styling standpoint, I think the "restraint" used (grille, badging) is superb. Clearly Porsche's input is evident here.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess Estates are popular in Europe, so we should not be surprised.

    Let's see what they use for the ST-X. If it gets a 2.5l turbo, as some rumors claim, that engine would likely go into the Legacy.

    I can't imagine it would be cost effective to have that many engines built in one plant. The volumes for the Blitzen are relatively low.

    Bob: minus the color, I agree.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You don't like that HOT red-orange? It's actually not much different from the Rio Red that was offered on the Legacy GT last year. Perhaps a bit more on the orange side? In any event, it's certainly a show-stopper.

    I believe in Japan it's offered in a variety of colors. My choice would probably be either white or black. Or, perhaps silver—since Porsche is involved.

    Did you notice the similarity of the bumper (scoops & utter and absolute smoothness) to those used on Porsches? I wonder if it has HID headlamps with integrated fog lamps, since there are no fog lamps in the bumper. It's hard to tell by this photo.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it's great for a show car. For the street, you may as well call it Arrest-Me-Red.

    I like the front end, too.

    -juice
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    I'm glad Porsche and Subaru worked together on some aspects of the car, but if they hadn't it would not make a pinch of difference to me. Not a pinch.

    Subaru engineering is good, and the people behind it are good. They build good motors, good transmissions, good suspensions. They build world-beating rally cars. They build the most popular cars on several continents. They don't need to sell their cars as having been designed or "improved" by someone else. They don't need to compare their cars to other cars as thought they were playing catch-up. IMHO others are catching up to *them*.

    Subarus are unique. Subarus stand on their own merits. A hot rod Subaru don't need no steenkeeng Porsche imprimatur to make me think it is a good car. I already think that.

    Ranting mildly,
    -wdb
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Points well taken.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, depends on how you look at it. Tokyo's roads are crowded, and tastes there tend to prefer a quick off-the-line vehicle, versus a grand tourer.

    That's where Porsche can come into play. They breed their cars on the Autobahn and on the track, so high speed tuning by Porsche could make sense. Maybe aerodynamics too. Things like drag, lift, frontal area, etc.

    But you're right. It's all about the marketing, throw in the "Porsche" name a few times and the kids go giddy.

    Remember the Isuzu Impulse, tuned by Lotus? They put several badges all over the car. A guy I met actually removed all the other labels, so people would think it was a Lotus. Who fell for it? Maybe a couple of teenage girls, but that's about it.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Don't know if this was posted.
    Do the 2-3 mpg differences (sticker) throughout the Subaru line-up affect CAFE that much?
    From the LA Times:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/highway1/20010221/t000015406.html
    California's strict emissions rules and federal fuel-economy standards are keeping Subaru from bringing in more of its higher-powered vehicles. "The ST-X will be 4-cylinder," Saito said. "We thought a 6-cylinder would be better but, for example, we've already taken 200 to 300 orders for the WRX [and] if we sell too many, then we won't meet our corporate fuel-economy requirements. It's complicated."
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The WRX and H-6 have identical EPA ratings—which happen to be very good. So, I question that comment regarding meeting corporate fuel economy standards.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That was actually an awsome car. AWD + Turbo, about 10 years before SOA brought it here. :)

    -mike
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    Some of you already know, I placed an order for a WRX sedan this week. Should be here in about 4 weeks. Juice already has claimed "dibs" on the first (very slow) turn behind the wheel.

    I noticed that the fuel requirement for the WRX is 91 octane. This is somewhat of a conundrum since (at least locally) octane ratings are 87,89 and 93. It seems logical to me that mixing a half tank of 89 and half 93 would yeild 91. Is there more to the equation than what seems apparent? Any comments .....

    - hutch
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I believe 91 is the minimum required. Just use the 93 for less headache with mixing.
    Oh and congratulations!
    Dennis
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Yeah, it's probably a trick to get rumors started and/or to judge reaction. :)
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    As a point of clarification, I realize that simply running 93 will work. My question, to anyone having an informed opinion,(Well, Ok any opinion at all)is will mixing 89 & 93 achieve the desired results?
    - hutch
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - there is a catch. The 20/27 for the WRX is for the manual tranny. The auto is 19/26.

    Solution: bring only 5 speeds! Fine with me!

    CAFE is 27.5 IIRC, and Subaru was borderline when they only offered the 2.2l and 2.5l. I don't know how they'll meet it now. I guess the 2.5l itself did get slightly better numbers when the Phase II version came out.

    It'll be close, though.

    Hutch: for the WRX, I'd use the best gas you can find. Turbos need special care and have a propensity to ping, so I wouldn't take any chances.

    Besides, up in your neck of the woods gas is cheap. Try paying $1.939 for premium near my house! What is it around you? $1.70 maybe?

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I thought I remember Patti mentioning that the H6 in the Legacy sedan was upsetting the car's balance. So, there'd be no H6 - but rather a H4 turbo of some sort. Maybe I'm just dreaming!

    That orange-red is definately an eye catcher. I'd prefer a dark color: black, blue, etc. Dark metallic red - oh, wait, I already have Winestone!

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sedan or Wagon? What color? Where did you order it from? Jones Subaru in Bel Air? Did you get a reasonable deal (no ADM)?

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    bluesubie,

    Wasn't the STX slated for a 4-cylinder (2.5L Superchared) from the get-go? I don't think I've ever read that it would get the H6.

    A recent conversation I had with a Subaru Technical Manager implied that the STX would get the same 2.0 turbo instead.

    Ken
  • aussierooaussieroo Member Posts: 78
    "right hand drive for the home market" read
    right hand drive for normal people

    cheers

    gus
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    Bob - I ordered a silver Sedan 5spd. from Jones in BelAir. It took one phone call with an "if you'll match Fitsgerald's price .." and the deal was done. Paid (or will pay) about $1.1k under MSRP. That's probably about $900 over invoice but since no data exists regarding invoice prices, of which I'm aware, it's hard to know for sure.

    I have to admit, I'm getting a little anxious.
    - hutch
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I could be getting my Legacy's mixed up. Other than the possible turbo in the ST-X, I thought I read here that it could get the H6. That could've been the i-club. Then again, whatever happened to the 180hp(?) n/a 4 cyl. in the Fleet-X?
    I know how they can meet CAFE. Bring back the Justy! Isn't it available in the UK?
    Dennis
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