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Comments
I'm not expecting a huge improvement in performance. I figured I have to replace the fronts anyway so why not stick in some better ones in there while I'm at it. I'm just trying to justify the extra $200.
Ken
(how's that?)
;-)
Ken
Cheers Pat.
You would have to liberate the rear suspension from an S model with disc brakes since the rear knuckles are probably different on the L model.As well the emergency brake is also a different set up, Subaru uses a a small drum within the rear rotor for the emergency brake.
The knuckles for the uninitiated are the stub axles that the bearing and hub run on,the braking system whether it be discs or drums are also mounted on the knuckles.
These are not to be confused with the drive axles.
I have done this swap on an Accord and while it is a feasable swap it is not for the faint of heart, as an upgrade on its own I would not think it worth the trouble unless you were upgrading the rest of the brake system.
Cheers Pat.
Are you sure you need to change the rotors? They usually last thru several pad changes. I think the minimum thickness for a front rotor is 22mm (they're 24mm new).
Jim
I'm fairly certain my rotors are causing the vibration I feel in the steering wheel when I brake at highway speeds. I've heard enough negatives about turning rotors so I thought I'd just go ahead and replace them all together. I am at 78K on my original pads and rotors.
Ken
Here's the other side of the coin, though. You're an enthusiast, drive more and drive harder than the normal person. $200 is insignificant in the big picture. That you'll appreciate it for at least a year or so, then maybe improve resale, might make it worthwhile even short-term.
Plus you can provide the Crew with valuable feedback, and that's contributing at least something worth while.
So sure, go for it. You still have enough for that down payment on that house, right? Did the contract go through?
-juice
Good to know there's at least SOMEONE else at work today!
Well, I dropped off my Forester at an independent Subaru mechanic today to have the WRX parts put in. I considered doing it myself, but I just wasn't in the DIY mood right now. I'll have reports on it later today.
It turns out that the majority of the price delta from the stock parts comes from having to buy new mounting brackets. The pads and rotors themselves are marginally more expensive than the stock ones. Looking at it that helped me justify the cost increase.
We unfortunatley lost out on the house bidding. Actually, it turned out to be a feeding frenzy (8 offers only two days after the house listed!) so we don't feel so bad. The entry-level ($450-500/sq ft) homes in the Bay Area have always been hot.
Ken
Well, Loosh, it's just you and I.
Ken
Ken
Here's a photo comparing the before and after on the front rotors:
The perspective is a bit off, but I think you can see the difference in size. The wheels barely clear the calipers now! The difference in size is more striking in person.
The difference in feel and performance? I haven't had a chance to put them to the test yet, but I noticed a fairly significant difference driving home last night. The brakes seem to engage quicker now and pedal feel does seem firmer. However, I have a feeling that the difference comes more from the pads, rotors and fluid being new rather than the larger diameter. As I mentioned, the rear pads were down to 2mm (from 10mm) and the front rotors were fairly "dished".
Ken
Looks great! Don't hammer them until they've been bedded and broken in properly, though. Drag them lightly for a block or two while staying on the gas, then let them cool. Do a couple moderate stops from 50mph or so. Let them cool while driving and do it again. Then a couple of higher speed slowdowns (say 70-30) and drive off again. This way, you'll burn off the machine oil on the new rotors, break the surface on the pads, and heat cycle the lugnuts a few times. Check these for proper torque if you have a torque wrench. We all know their propensity to overtighten, and if they properly tightened them then it's a good idea to retorque after 50 miles or so. Especially with new rotors/hubs where the hub face hasn't mated to the wheels before.
Then go nuts!
IdahoDoug
Thanks for the tips. I asked the mechanic about breaking in the new pads and he said that it wasn't necessary with Subaru parts. I thought that kind of sounded strange, but the guy has been working exclusively on Subarus for over 20 years.
I wasn't exactly sure, so I've been braking lightly for now. I'll go out and try your suggestions later today.
BTW, what's sufficient to let the rotors "cool"? A few minutes of driving?
Ken
IdahoDoug
Found that out wed night. I was trying to get V6 Accord steelies with snow tires on the SVX because I lost a tire earlir in the week and that model tire is discontinued. No dice unfortunately so it looks like I'll be dropping $500 on new tires. Anyone have any suggestions for me? Size is 225-50-16 or Preferrably 245-45-16 in either summer or all-season, but leaning toward all-season.
-mike
-mike
Ken
-Brian
Ken
Cheers Pat.
I am going to assume that the OEM brakes were sufficient to invoke the ABS in a normal panic stop situation. This being the case, the original system was not limited by swept area, but by chassis dynamics (weight x-fer when braking), tire contact patch and adhesion.
What your upgrade helped most then, was probably fade resistance and general feel. So with more overall capacity now available, you might now consider addressing tread compound, contact area and the like. You would then really get the most out of your brake investment!
Steve
Yes, the OEM brakes were enough to engage ABS. I'm going to be replacing tires after I pay off the brake job!
One other thing I'm hoping the brake upgrade will help out in is resistance to warpage.
Ken
Project Forester 2.5RS continues...
Looks great. I definitely notice the difference. And those rims look better then new, fresh wax?
-juice
Yeah, I decided to just go ahead and do it. No, same old rims -- just better lighting with the 'after' shot.
So, now that you have 16" wheels too, you could follow suit. ;-)
So, do WRX brakes make it Project Forester 2.5RS or WRX?
Ken
-juice
Can anyone out there tell me if getting aftermarket leather interior installed on an 03 Forester 5 spd will void the airbag warranty? I've got conflicting answers from a couple of the local Suabaru dealers. One actually suggested it to me as an option because i don't really like the cloth interior, while another refused to do it on the basis that it would void the warranty on the (side?) airbags. who is right?
Thanx...
let's say that this leather reupholstry did render them useless. would you do it anyway?
-Colin
Dealers have leather packages installed on a regular basis on lower end models that have cloth as standard. Like every dealer installed option there is a big mark up on aftermarket leather.
Incidently aftermarket leather packages are usually much better quality than O.E.M.
Cheers Pat.
Steve
Cheers Pat.
I can see how a leather cover that didn't split properly would affect the operation of the air bag. But my concern would be if the air bag can still deploy properly, not any warranty.
So, forget what the dealer says, inspect a leather interior they've already done closely, and determine if it's a quality job that makes room for the air bags to deploy. If so, buy it, who cares about the warranty.
I've seen SRS logos on the sides, so aftermarket vendors are very much aware of the air bags and plan around them. And I agree with Pat, the aftermarket leather I've seen on Foresters, for instance, was of excellent quality.
-juice
not much of a mod, but I like it anyways.
Cheers Pat.
Cheers Pat.
-Brian
I like the new grille! Subtle, but different.
Ken
-juice
I think the issue here from the dealer's standpoint is liability. They don't want to get sued by an injured owner whose side airbag did not protect them in an impact. If the dealer (or anyone here, for that matter) is claiming that the aftermarket leather cover maker certified that their seat cover is compatible with each of the hundreds of seat mounted airbags out there with DOT testing or similar - they're smoking crack. No way - that would cost millions. If a dealer claims this, I'd ask for the phone number of the cover maker so I could sit with the salesman and ask that question on a speaker phone.
If you think you've bought a car in the past with a factory leather kit, think again. Dealers will say things like "Identical to the factory leather - even made by the same company". But if you ask them to show you the Subaru part number for the interior you'll get the run around. The simple fact is that it would be prohibitively expensive to purchase the interior covers from the factory.
There are some excellent aftermarket leather kits out there, but I'd be seriously concerned about compatibility with a seat mounted side airbag and I wouldn't trust a salesman to tell me "it's compatible" while waiting for me to write a check......
IdahoDoug
I have seen a WRX fitted with a Katzskin leather interior and it is very definitely designed to accomodate the side airbags.
If you read my former post you see that I wrote the interiors that dealers supply are aftermarket at a huge mark up.
Cheers Pat.
I stand by my assertion that aftermarket interior kits installed by dealers are not all tested like the interior upholstery from the factory is. Let me give you a couple things that can go wrong to illustrate my point and I think you'll find that you and I are in agreement here more than not.
The side airbags in a vehicle are the very fastest ones and their successful and timely deployment is far more critical than the steering wheel and dashboard units. This is simply because they have about 1/3 the time window since a side hit is only inches from your body where a frontal impact is feet away.
A typical leather aftermarket kit is simply laid over the existing upholstery. This is because the existing fabric upholstery is often bonded to the foam that makes up the seat cushion in order to prevent buckling and sagging over the long term. (Factory leather is not done this way). If this is done, you've added another layer in the path of the airbag deployment and are bound to impact timing. Granted, an airbag deployment is a powerful event, but we're talking milliseconds here and things can go very wrong if the person has hit the door already as the airbag is coming into that same space.
Another critical issue with seat mounted airbags is the attachment of the leather to the seat. At the factory, leather upholstery is put on the individual pieces before the seat frame is assembled and covers up the attachment area so it's no longer accessible. With seat mounted side airbags, it is critical that the bottom edges of the side and back upholstery be properly secure so that the seam properly blows out. If it were not, a certain percentage of the time the leather would pull away from its attachment point rather than be attached securely, and the entire leather side panel could come up with the airbag - dramatically impeding its deployment speed or even worse limiting the deployment distance. The aftermarket leather kits are designed with an eye toward quick installation without requiring a service guy (who's not talented enough to be in a service bay) to disassemble the seat. I've seen the Rube Goldberg straps and clips under some of these kits and I'm here to tell you it's not encouraging.
Are there kits out there that require the service guy to remove the entire seat, separate the seat squab from the frame, remove the upholstery, use upholstery tools to reattach 15 crimped hog rings along the edges just like the factory did? Probably. But how many of them are installed across the US versus the ones that allow him to lay the leather on the seat, then attach a half dozen speed clamps wherever he can find a place to attach them?
Katzskins does an excellent job with their products and I applaud that. They spend the money on research and testing. I think you and I are on the same page since you used "reputable" in your post in recognition that the quality of these things varies. That's my point too. Check out who they're using, and see an installation before buying.
IdahoDoug
I am also of the school of aftermarket moonroofs not being as good as the factory ones. Just 2 different schools of thought I guess.
-mike