Subaru Crew - Modifications II

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they are hit or miss.

    A reputable vendor would have tested the seat covers with the air bags, just as a reputable manufacturer would.

    Maybe the installer doesn't test it, but I seriously doubt the place that actually assembles the car tests the factory air bags, either. In fact I doubt they test both cloth and leather when both are available, it would get costly for a low volume car.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I entirely agree with the assumption that there poor quality leather kits just as there are poor quality imitations of just about anything, but as Doug pointed out the key word in my post was reputable.

    Katzskins is one of the most reputable makers of leather kits out there they are a supplier to auto industry, I have seen their products numerous times and they are absolutely top quality, one I have personally seen on a WRX has all the necessary panels stiched where the side airbags are.

    I don't know what cars you are refering to that have the upholstery glued on Doug, I have had the covers off of the seats on many cars I owned import and domestic and never found any of them bonded to the seat cushions, the last car I did was my 1989 Accord, in that car I removed the cloth interior and installed a leather interior from an 89 Accord Sei, In all the cars that I have worked on they all had the covers backrest and seat intalled with hog rings like they should be.

    I also spoke to a friend who does auto upholstery for a living and who also was a teacher to me in doing my own work, he said in thirty years in the trade he has never seen a cover glued to the cushion, as a matter of fact to intall a Katzskin package the factory covers have be removed.

    But the bottom line is always, buyer beware do your reasearch carefully before parting with your hard earned dollars, you usually get what you pay for, if you buy cheap you get cheap.

    In closing I stand by my origional assertion that no reputable maker of leather interiors is going to leave himself wide open to a lawsuit by supplying an interior that impedes the proper deployment of the side airbag.

    Cheers Pat.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Hondafriek - well said, I agree.

    Juice - Yes, they certainly do test the cloth and leather airbag deployments. Multiple times, actually. Full video, high speed photography, post analysis, dummies - the works. Airbags are way to serious to be left to chance. It's typical for a manufacturer to assemble and smash up to 30 entire vehicles before one ever sees the light of day. In a low volume car, this number might drop to 10 or so.

    The world of car manufacturing is so fraught with testing and avoidance of litigation it's a wonder they can build a car for less than $50 grand at all..... But all that stuff is worth it because today any one of us could drive our car into a parked car at 30mph, unbuckle our seatbelt and calmly walk into the nearest Starbuck's for a cup. Decaf, of course :-)


    IdahoDoug
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Why doesn't one of you just contact Katzskins/ or your specific installer and ASK them if their product is warranted with side airbags ? Surely if there was any disclaimer they would tell you OR does caveat emptor apply?
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Because we both know they absolutely are designed for side airbags. Check out their website and you'll see they don't cut corners on this issue at all.

    IdahoDoug
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Well how about "your specific installer" as I mentioned. Seems like a lot of discussion centered on who does/does not do a good job of installing leather seats. If you are going to have this done ...just ask the installer if they are ok with side airbags.
    FINI.....I don't want leather!
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    This discussion on leather started because another member on this thread asked for opinions on leather interiors because he had conflicting opinions from dealers, while I respect your right not to have leather many other people do.

    The primary purpose of these threads is to have an exchange of knowledge and ideas, so if you do not want to read posts that obviously get up your nose just skip them.

    Cheers Pat.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Once again a subaru aftermarket vendor producting Turbo Kits closes their doors! And my buddy is 1/2 way through getting his kit! He got screwed on the original JC Sports group buy way way back. Go figure.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Doug: I agree, but I was saying something different. The tests are done in one lab, the cars are assembled somewhere else by someone else, possibly even in a different country. Then toss in the fact that suppliers change all the time, so who knows if the leather supplier remains constant.

    Did Ludespeed close? BUMMER!

    I'd heard about nightmare stories from JC Sports, just awful experiences.

    -juice
  • gpleissgpleiss Member Posts: 3
    OK. Thanx all for the wealth of info that's come across on this one. I did contact the vendor that my daler uses to discuss the issue with them specifically. The vendor is Classic Soft Trim. Here's what they had to tell me for anyone else interested. Apparently this is the same company that does the port installs of leather for Subaru in Portland, and they do perform testing of airbag deployments through Madison Labs. The leather covers they use have the same breakaway seam as the factory leather, and they do NOT simply place this over the factory cloth, but instead remove the seats/cloth and place leather directly over the foam.

    That said, I am still yet to see first-hand an example of their work and will certainly try to do so before making a final decision. That way I can inspect for hog rings vs speed clamps, etc. In the end, I just wish the 5 spd forester would come with leather straight from the factory or else that the cloth was a little more plush so I could avoid this altogether!

    So, 2 final questions:
    1)Anyone know anything good/bad about Classic Soft Trim as a leather installer
    2)What kind of price range would you consider "normal" for aftermarket leather (i know this varies, but i'm just looking for ideas of what price is 'too good to be true' for a quality job)

    Thanx again for all the good info....
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    I'll be looking into buying an after market stereo for under $200 bucks. I'll be keeping my old speakers and tweeters. Are any particular models you guys recommend?

    Thanks a bunch.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    dude,

    so just a cd receiver then? do you think you'll ever add a changer, upgrade the speakers or add an amplifier?

    I'll shoot you some ideas after I hear back from you but man $200 is tough.

    -Colin
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Well, I'll be looking into adding XM radio and I've been browsing Pioneer receivers around $200 with XM. People have been praising them. As far as adding a changer, I doubt, I don't see myself adding it under a passenger sit, plus if XM survives, it will eliminate the need for the changer. I find the OEM speakers are decent, btw.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Get the JVC MP3/Receiver/CD-player that I got. $177 shipped. 200watts.


    Hmm it went up to $213 but still a good deal


    http://www.proactiveelectronics.com/JVKDSX980&af=EPI


    -mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I asked Adler & Mandell and they install leather for $900, heated leather for $1300. Sounds about right.

    dude: get a semi-used 6CD from a WRX. I bought two of them, $250 each, and prices have actually come down. You get 6 CDs right in the dash plus cassette, and the factory look for better resale and lower likelihood of theft. With stock speakers, the sound quality won't be any better with an aftermarket one anyway. And they plug and play very easily, same harness even.

    -juice
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Mike, thanks for the post. Unfortunately, I had a bad experience with JVC electronics. I was also thinking about mp3 player, but usually, they aren't XM ready.
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Is the plug from 2002 same for 98? I was under the impression that I'd need some kind of adapter. Besides, the WRX unit doesn't have a clock
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    dude,

    hate to break the news but for $200 that's just an "XM-ready" receiver. the XM antenna / dish itself is definitely something you have to buy separately.

    I researched it and have decided the cost isn't worth it... sticking to cds for now. plus I have a few changers.

    I'd consider an MP3 compatible head unit, but am not sure I'd bother to rip all my stuff to mp3. I do have quite a few, but not nearly all my music is there.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My 1998 Forester and my wife's 2002 Legacy uses the exact same harness as the WRX. 2003 Legacys have not changed significantly, so I'd be willing to bet a beer, yes.

    I got both radios shipped with no wires at all. The antennae and harness plugged right in.

    I don't think it plays MP3s, but it does play CD-R music I've burned from Grokster. Haven't had to buy a CD in months.

    -juice
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Juice, what kind of beer you're willing to bet, I don't like Budwiser, :-)

    How long did it take to put it in, does it have a build-in clock?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Um, no clock I think. At least I don't use it, because the Forester has an overhead one, and the Legacy has one in the dash. So it might, I guess.

    Took me a couple of hours. To be honest the Legacy was harder to access than the Forester. I used some diagrams from bitman and some advice from Pat, if you end up going this route I'm sure we could all offer some tips.

    You do need a really short phillips and a really long one as well. Preferably with magnetic tip on the long one. The rest is fairly easy. It's a double DIN that will occupy the space of the storage bin below your current stereo.

    I love it - nice and clean look, Subaru logo. Should enhance resale. 6 CDs right there, fed in one by one. The ideal radio for me, since I'm not willing to pay the $10/month for satellite (too cheap!). MP3s would be cool, I guess, but CD-Rs are fine, I can fit 20 songs per CD, so that's 120 songs. I don't think I even like that many different tunes! ;-)

    -juice
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    I'm looking forward, actually, getting XM. I like variety of music to listen to. Plus, surprisingly, I use car clock a lot. Of course I could get one of those battery operated clocks and stick it somewhere.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did you say you had a 2003 Legacy? Isn't there a clock near the trip odometer?

    We have a clock and even an outside temp gauge. Very useful.

    -juice
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    No, mine is a 98.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    dude-- if you're researched it that's cool. I just didn't want you to think you could get XM for $200 plus the ... what $10/month?

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is it $10 or $13? There's also Sirius and I mix them up.

    -juice
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    No, no, Colin, I new that before hand that just the XM-Ready receiver would be 200. That's why I didn't want to spend 400 for the stereo plus about 200 for the tuner and the antenna. Sirius doesn't appeal to me for some reason. XM has better programming. Any subi owners have it???
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
    my brother just bought the xm system. system was the sony plug & play unit and the full car pack with the rf modulator.
    price 275 w/75 rebate due to purchase prior dec 1 bringing total to 200.
    he also bought home docking station - 125.
    his unit for the car is i think an older one with
    5 presents & smallar remote - newer ones are 20 presents w/a few more functions. he installed himself. his unit came w/car antennae. the newer units you must buy car antennae separately. he bought from a retail outfit locally in nj. his price however might be because he had an 'in' with this retailer (knows the guy). service is usd 9.99 +tax/month. if you register online for service - connection fee is 9.99 (normally usd 15 if you activate by phone). loves it. says it's worth every penny. favorite feature is XM Comedy - non-stop non-edited stand-up. old/new. very funny. he search on sirrus - a few mor bucks a month - each systems has it's own pros/cons. about 60 music stations out of 100 or so stations. 30 of the music stations are 100% commercial free. remaining music stations have MINIMAL commercials.
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    ken, how's the sound quality with RF modulator, better or worse of FM? Where did he place the plub&play unit?

    Thanks
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
    not sure - he just did it last week. haven't seen him yet - just talked to him on the ph about it. he doesn't have a subaru though - he put it in his saturn. i'll ask him next time we talk & let you know. rgds, ken
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Thanks a million, Ken. Look forward to your report.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    XM also intrigued me, but it's the $10/month that I still have trouble with.

    With Kaaza and CD-R prices so low, it's kind of hard to justify $120/year.

    Ken
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    I look at it this way. I go to the movies probably 3 times a month, maybe four. For me and my fiancee I shall out 12 bucks plus misc things like water or pretzel which brings the total to about 20 bucks per visit. Of course we can wait a few months and see this movie on DVD for 3 bucks. But we go to the movies for entertainment purpose since there isn't much you can do in Denver. So, 10 bucks a month ain't too bad from my point of view.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I was lucky. I never embraced the CDs when they first came out, just kept buying tapes. Once MP3s came about I never bothered with CDs. I just download all my music now. Having the MP3 player is great, it's like having a 15 CD Changer in the car! If most of your music is on traditional CDs then the MP3 player isn't gonna help.

    -mike
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,755
    My wife and I had around 500 CDs and still bought a 10gig MP3 player and love it. We've ripped a tremendous amount of those CDs to a dedicated hard drive on one of my computers and just load up the MP3 player with what we want. That one MP3 player is the equivalent of carrying 100 cds in the car with us AND its got a menu system that beats the hell out of searching through stacks of physical disks. SO, even if you do have traditional CDs, an MP3 player can still be a great convenience and time saver.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    paisan Dec 12, 2002 8:21am

    but then the traditional CD music could up loaded into the pc and converted to MP3 format for down load.

    -Dave [saying it all in one breathe ;-) ]
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    quote: But we go to the movies for entertainment purpose since there isn't much you can do in Denver.

    wha-at? I don't live there, but I'd love to go to a hockey game... plus you probably have a real theatre (several, perhaps), symphony, good nightclubs... of course these things tend to be more than $20 a night.

    sorry, but I find things to do in Wichita... I'd find all sorts of stuff to do in Denver, I'm sure!

    -Colin
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Colin, I've lived in Denver for 8 years and trust me it's boring. Yes, I can go to the Avs game from time to time but it's pricey. Cheap tickets are usually sold out and the once that are left are about 35-50 bucks. Multiply that by 2 and that's $70-$100 bucks just for tickets, plus parking and concessions. Can't afford to do that often. I usually go to the Colorado Symphony but this year program sux. As far as nightclubs and other places like that, I don't like em, too many people, besides my fiancee isn't 21 yet.
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
    ok - to answer question on sound quality - he says he cannot tell difference btwn xm radio playing thru radio (fm signal) via rf modulator & a cd. the modulator apparently turns the digital signal it receives into a fm frequency allowing the sound to travel thru his radio on an open/blank fm frequency. even heavy weather has no effect so far (last nite on his way to work he was playing it and it was raining/sleeting heavily) - hope this helps. - ken
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Ken, Thanks for the report.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tix to the Hockey game: $100
    Microbrew for two: $16
    NHL Hockey Jersey: $160
    Arriving on time in a snow storm with your Subie?

    Priceless! :-)

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    but in a snow storm, the players won't be able to get there and the game would be cancelled! 8~0

    jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They can skate to the game!

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    touche!

    Jim
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Juice, that's a good one, and actually folks from Master Card that issue Subaru card might want to have a look at that one. I'm not kidding...
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    a hockey player from his game. Ask my wife. :)

    Greg
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Guess this qualifies as a mod, Pat's homemade custon grill is now on the car, this is temporary until I get the new grill.

    But the grill that I made from the remains of the old one looks so good I am almost tempted to cancel the new one.

    This grill looks like it should have been the one that was on the car, it looks real good from close up, will try to get a couple of photos.

    CHeers Pat.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    There is a link to some photos over in the photo gallery.

    Cheers Pat.
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    I saw this legacy the other day with custom exhaust which is pretty rare. I see bunch of Imprezas but not Legacy and I'm wondering is there a benefit of a high performance exhaust on Legacys or is it just waste of money.

    Cheers.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    As a rule of thumb, you get more bang for your buck with intake and exhaust modifications with turbos.

    A high performance exhaust on a Legacy isn't a waste of money -- you will get some increase in performance and a beefier exhaust note.

    Lucien has a nice exhaust on his Legacy GT. Perhaps he can share his experiences here.

    Ken
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