Subaru Crew - Modifications II

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Comments

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Mike, I have a variety of helmets. The one I use for autocross and would use for track days, driving schools, etc. is a Simpson LX8. I believe the name changed in the 2001 models, but it's still LX-something or other.

    It is *extremely* light, under 3lb. However, the shell is physically large and it rubs on the edge of the sunroof on the left side. If I had to do it again I'd spend the extra $100 or so for a Bell Mag5, which is noticeably smaller and only ~1.5lb heavier.

    I've found helmets to be very non-standard in size, so it's best if you test fit one at a local dealer. You can then decide if they deserve your patronage because it's nearly guaranteed to be cheaper online / mailorder.

    Oh, and if you are Asian then you will probably find Asian helmets will fit better because they are more round inside. European / American helmets are more oval-- longer from the forehead to base of skull-- because that's what non-Asian heads are shaped like. Unfortunately I figure this out *after* I spend many years wondering why my Arai motorcycle helmets fit the best. ;-) Buy the one that fits you.

    -Colin
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Loosh, I may be premature as I don't have a confirmation.

    Mike, Will keep you in mind. I usually learn of track days on i Club's Mid Atlantic forum (I visit infrequently). And by the way, my comment about "auto-crossing one day" is because I'm sure I'll succumb to peer pressure from you :)

    ..Mike

    EDIT: Bam! And there's Colin's answer; thanks, man. I emailed myself your post so it doesn't get lost in the quagmire of this search-free forum.

    ..Mike

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Yep Juice, I run Street Modified. The tires won't live through April's events. ;-)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mike - sounds like fun. Now we got figure out a way to drag our SOs with us, like Loosh has.

    Colin: get pix of those tires/rims, k?

    -juice
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    I can't wait to sell my RS rims so that i can buy my Proxes RA1s!!! arrghhh!!!
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Thanks for all the hints I am sure I will not have any trouble after all the detailed help.
    Cheers Pat.
  • rplumrplum Member Posts: 48
    Colin,

    sounds like you got a good (no, make that great!) deal on those tires and wheels. I just sold an extra pair of gold 98RS wheels that I had (which I had put 60K+ miles on) for $400, and I had four people willing to give me that for em.

    Just got my new summer tires yesterday. Potenza S-02PPs. Still a bit too cold here in Michigan to mount em, so I have to show restraint. I went with 205/55R16s, and stacked up they are a good bit wider than the stock RE92s I stacked em by here at work.

    Ryan
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's entirely possible. The 205 is the section width in mm, not the tread width.

    Look at some truck tires - they are so rounded off sometimes, it's likely that 235s have about the same tread width as your 205 Potenzas.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Uh, 205mm is the rated size and that's about all it tells you. The tire should be approximately 205mm wide, but diameter shouldn't vary much. If the tires are stacked, that means the shoulders are touching, not the tread. That probably implies that the carcass is wider, and thus probably section width too.

    The RE92 is narrow in both section width and tread width for a 205/55-16. Good point about tread width versus section width though Juice.

    -Colin
  • rplumrplum Member Posts: 48
    actually, I'm starting to think that the rated size is merely a suggestion.

    although after a brief unmounted measurement, I did find that the actual unmounted tire size of my S-02s matches up with the Bridgestone Website specs quite accurately (as long as you know what areas to "measure")

    i.e. they quote a tread width of 5.9",and you have to go from the shoulder in quite a bit to find that measurement. Much more than what I would have casually grabbed.

    Ryan
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Walk into a tire shop and check out how much two tires of the same size can be shaped differently - it's amazing.

    We swapped the Bridgetones on my wife's car (RE92s IIRC) for BF Goodrich Comp T/A VR4s, and they look wider and taller. At least visually they fill up the wheel wells more.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Wow, that's pretty narrow... must have very round shoulders. I measured my AVS S1 (225/50-16, admittedly) at 8.6" across the tread face.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't remember the measurements exactly, but my 225 Nittos are a full inch wider than the Bridgestone tires I removed. The photos I shared at the time showed that pretty obviously.

    I should be wider, but by 20mm. It was about 25mm wider.

    -juice
  • rplumrplum Member Posts: 48
    Exactly what I'm getting at,

    If I measure the S-02s at what I would realistically believe the tread width to be, it's about 8 inches. You have to move WAY up off the shoulder to get that 5.9". And with any kind of load on the tire there is a lot more than that contacting the ground.

    Either way, I'm happy. These things look incredibly fast and sexy. Can a tire be sexy? if it can, then these do.

    RP
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think so. Tires can. Wheels can. Brakes definitely can. Ever peeked at a 911 Turbo's brake discs and calipers?

    -juice
  • seamus3seamus3 Member Posts: 98
    holy f*%@&#g s*%t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there was a crazy earthquake today here is washington, 6.8!!! we were so lucky though.

    i was driving and was just around the corner from my apartment and my car swerved across all three lanes of the road. i thought there was something wrong until i stopped my car. it felt like there were people standing outside rocking the hell out of my car. my first real earthquake.

    so what is the diameter limit for a catback? i have heard anything over 2.5 inches doesn't do anything for you and may even take away power. opinions, facts anyone?
  • barresa11barresa11 Member Posts: 277
    Sorry, bad pun. Felt it in Seattle too! Fortunately, I wasn't driving the OB at the time. We were lucky that the quake was so deep or we might have had something more severe than the Northridge quake in CA circa 94'! Glad you're okay....hey could have been more freaky, I mean you could have been driving on or under the Alaskan Way Viaduct!!!

    Stephen
  • seamus3seamus3 Member Posts: 98
    i was actually down at colman dock this morning, i was on the vashon ferry back from visiting some family. i don't know if you saw that the 4th ave bridge in oly is done with. they're going to tear it down and rebuild it, finally. lot's of damage, i'm in oly right now at my parents house.

    please would someone explain to me what headers do and what advantage they give you besides making your car noisy. also what will a new cam do, specifically a "racing cam". my friend has an accord and is set on doing these mods to his car. i think they are pretty stupid myself, for an accord at least. i could understand if you had a 67 camaro (for example) and threw headers on, they belong there, but a 96 accord coupe? he also wants to change the pullies to a different ratio and cut out the a/i and whatever else it is that gets cut out. could you please give me the pro's and con's of these mods.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here are my simple definitions.

    Headers are basically the first portion of your exhaust. They bolt on to the sides of the block, and route the exhaust fumes into the catalytic converter. Better ones have a smooth interior surface, gradual curves, equal length for all cylinders, and a larger diameter.

    Pro is +5hp or so. Con is cost and difficulty to install.

    The cat itself can be a bottle neck, so some people change these. They are a couple hundred bucks or so, and have to still meet emissions standards. By itself this won't increase power, but combine it with other mods and it will.

    Behind that is the exhaust pipe, muffler, and tail pipe. Collectively these are called the "cat-back". It's really the easiest part to change, so it's a popular mod.

    Moving to a 2.25" diameter pipe can give you maybe 5 hp or so. 2.5" could yield more at the high end, but it also reduces back pressure and can cost you some low end torque.

    But what's right will depend on what other mods you do. 2.25" ought to be fine for normally aspirated engines, but a 2.5" is better suited for forced induction.

    Pro: more power, deeper exhaust note. Con: more noise, droning, kick-backs, burble, and cost, if you don't like that stuff.

    Finally, cams control your valves. The Phase I engines were DOHC, which means 2 camshafts per bank of cylinders. Since it's a boxer, that meant 4 cams total. One set of cams controls the exhaust valve, the other the intake valves.

    The Phase II engines are SOHC, so one cam per bank of cylinder, or two total. In this case, the single cam controls both intake and exhaust valves.

    The key is they determine the lift and the duration of the valve opening. Racing cams increase both of these to make the engine breath better (more air/fuel in, more exhaust out).

    Pro: more power. Con: expensive, high level of difficulty to install (just ask Colin), and it could possibly affect the drivability/smoothness of the engine.

    A pulley swap basically uses a lighter, smaller pulley to turn the accessories a little slower. This makes them less of a leach on the engine, so it can get more of its power to the pavement.

    Pro: cheap mod, better throttle response, more power. Con: some complain that lights dim at idle, and A/C doesn't work as well.

    Your friend may be talking about removing the A/C system altogether. This can save weight and remove another "leach" on the engine to make a bit more power.

    My guess is if he does all this stuff, he'll have a super-fast car that is impossible to live with.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Juice,I agree with everything you say until the last paragraph, all those mods will make the Accord the car it should, be a very enjoyable car that is easy to live with the Accord is essentually dead below 3000 rpms, with the right camshaft along with the rest of the proposed mods will waken the Accord up in the midrange where it really needs it all Hondas make their power at the top end I have all all these mods on my 89 Accord plus extensive head work and the car is now a delight, it runs strong from the get go and is very easy to live with it runs and idles like the stock car and as long as you do not drive like a raving lunatic the gas milage is no worse either.
    Cheers Pat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If he sticks with well engineered parts and either lets a professional do all the work or really knows what he's doing, maybe so.

    Still, he'd have no A/C and where I live that alone would make it impossible to live with.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    It is usually the choice of camshaft that determines whether a car is a joy or a royal pain in the [non-permissible content removed], example all the old muscle cars cars with their lumpt idle you had to keep blipping the gas to keep them running.
    cheers Pat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Like my friend's big block Camaro. That thing has the roughest idle I've every heard, but actually smooths out nicely at 3000rpm and up.

    -juice
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    juice, great job with the definitions! Clear and concise. The pro/con is a great touch.

    I would add a bit to the pulley mod: factory front pulleys often serve some balancing and vibration damping functions, therefore putting a smaller, lighter pulley on may increase engine roughness and vibration. I'd guess that this is much less of an issue with horizontally opposed motors such as Subaru uses, because they are inherently balanced by design. However on an inline 4 like Honda uses, changing the pulley may have a more pronounced effect on engine smoothness and vibration.

    One thing is for sure; doing headers, cams and pulley is going to dramatically change the character of any vehicle. It will become peakier, less pleasant to drive in normal traffic situations, more fun to drive at the track.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...that those who have dyno tested the lightweight pulley show no power gain. It does improve throttle response, making it a nice part of an overall tuned package, but don't count on it to give you any more hp.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't modern Honda fours have balance shafts for that, though?

    If I got the pulley it would be for throttle response - so you can more quickly match revs when down shifting.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Right on about the Honda balance shafts.
    CheersPat.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Juice and Pat, my father's 69 camaro is exactly like that. A better solution than blipping the gas is setting the idle high enough so that it doesn't stall. For the pretty warm 396 that's in the car now, that is somewhere around 1600rpm. (It's run a best of 11.18@118MPH, so it's quick but nothing overly ridiculous. Fast enough to beat most challengers on the street.)

    Back to Subaru-- I like the cams in mine. ;-)

    -Colin
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    All this talk of cams has me thinking back to the days I worked at the local dragway (Great Lakes Dragaway). You could always tell the engines that had cam work done to 'em. They idled like "brapp, brapp, brapp, brapp". Get the RPM's moving and it smooths out. Cams usually have a special purpose: better low end, better mid, better high end.

    Exhaust mods for the most part improve the 'breathing' of the engine. Headers, larger pipe, less restrictive mufflers and/or cats, just make the 'breathing' easier. And just like putting a Breathe Right® nasal strip on your nose, it'll breathe better.

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1600rpm idle? Wow! I won't ask about the mileage.

    Breathe Right ought to branch out into auto exhausts! ;-)

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Juice, as near as we can figure it gets around 4 MPG. Not really sure though, since it doesn't have a gas gauge or speedometer. ;-) Assuming the weather is decent enough for me to work on my RS this weekend, I'll snap a few pics of the Camaro.

    -Colin
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Reread my post #524 i have all those mods and more on my 89Accord and until you bury your boot in it it behaves just like the stock car no histrionics no peakiness, I guarantee that if you were in my car you would not think it was anything other than a stock Honda if it was a pig I would be the first to say this is a mistake don;t do it, it is like all things if it is done right then no problem but if it is done wrong then beware.
    Cheers Pat.
  • seamus3seamus3 Member Posts: 98
    i was asking about the cat back because i had been told that since i was putting more air into my engine that i should let it come back out, as exhaust, just as easily. is my theory right or what?

    my friend thinks that with all of those mods his car will run like it does now with no change whatsoever. he thinks that it will only be faster. i told him i think that it will change the car quite a bit. making it more like a car that you would reserve for racing on a track and not as a daily driver.

    i am also interested in a short throw shifter. who would you reccomend buying it from? brand?
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Actually juice nailed it a couple of posts back.

    Engines can be thought of as air pumps so air in-air out is agood idea within limits.

    Mods are usually done in concert with each other to maximize results-so if you add an intake -adding a better exhaust gives better results.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For shift levers, try Cobb. They run about $100 and plus $45 if you want urethane bushings:

    http://www.cobbtuning.com/forester/drivetrain-shift.html

    You can also do with Kartboy, whick Teague's should carry:

    http://home.att.net/~teaguesauto/kartboylinks.htm

    I've tried the Kartboy with urethane bushings and it's a very direct, metallic feel with zero play. I suggest attending a local i Club meet and sampling some. That's the best way to decide.

    -juice
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    I have a brand new Cobb shifter that I can't use in my 01 GT since the dimension of the barrel where the linkage attaches is narrower than the 01 linkage. It might fit your 96. If so I will sell it for say $65. The barrel is 31mm wide.

    bit
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Score! Go for it. That's cheap. My SPT kit was $200!

    -juice
  • seamus3seamus3 Member Posts: 98
    bushings and all? i would love to buy it but i don't get paid for another two weeks. and being that i am a student all of my money is spoken for right now :( if you still have it in two weeks i would buy it. thanks for the offer though. i was looking at my friends accord. he has an intake but no exhaust. on the tip of his muffler there is a bunch of black stuff, solid, flaky. i assume this is from all of the extra exhaust that he is creating but not getting rid of quick enough.
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    No bushings... couple of very thin flat nylon washer on each side. I can wait 2 weeks.

    bit
  • seamus3seamus3 Member Posts: 98
    you can send me an e-mail with the total cost, including shipping and when i get paid we can work out how to get the money to you and the shifter to me.(seamus13@juno.com)
  • gvmelbrtygvmelbrty Member Posts: 64
    I recently noticed that there is now an LED signal mirror kit available for the Forester S (complete w/ mirror heating elements).

    http://www.kwmuth.com/Products/Kits/200-0058.htm

    You can download the instruction manual - installation is not for the faint of heart (which makes this gadget a prime candidate for the monster Forester add-on wish list *haha*)

    Just curious, has anyone installed this device on their vehicle? How does the mirror quality compare to the OEM glass?

    -Tom
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $270 w/heat. It won't fit the L model because our mirrors are smaller.

    -juice
  • jackleungjackleung Member Posts: 79
    Just curious. BTW, this link has some interesting demo which are quite fun to see.


    http://www.club4ag.com/video.htm


    Rgds,

      Jack

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Absolutely.

    My Forester is pretty neutral, but the tail comes out on occasion. Counter-steer and stay in the power and it comes back in line. If it's wet or snowing, this is very easy to do. In the dry it's possible but it'll scare your passengers.

    Hutch and I took an automatic Forester through a slalom and he had all four wheels drifting. It was pretty wild.

    I think the VDC may be the only Soob you can't drift, because it has stability and traction control.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    You can't drift for long in an AWD car, it really can only be maintained under power in a RWD car. FWD and AWD pull you right out of a drift.

    You can keep the tires in a high slip angle though, and my car is tuned for a pretty decent amount of trailing-throttle oversteer at the limit. This isn't a problem for me on the street though because I'm never remotely near the limit on the street.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    BTW, that Skyline video was cool. I doubt those tires would last long with that driving style. In fact, on pavement, I doubt that style would even yield the quickest times.

    Looked fun, though.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Didn't see the vid, but what you say, I bet the Skyline was part of a growing trend in Japan- drifting for the sake of drifting. the point isn't to get teh best time, but hang it out as long as possible. Kids these days..... :)
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    You can drift a VDC. I did it on an icy ski area parking lot after it had cleared out of cars. You do have to turn pretty hard and gun it, though.
    FWIW,
    Theo
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Ah-ha! A fad. That explains it. I watched one of the videos from that site, and I thought, man, that is not the fast way around a corner! The guy started a lurid slide at the entry of the turn, which he was plainly entering too fast; then he slid full-opposite-lock to the outside of the corner--losing speed like crazy--and then, after the car had slowed enough that it was no longer heading directly off the track, he gave it some more throttle so that he finished the turn with tires howling and the car still sideways. It was ugly.

    There is a road near here called Duryea Drive, named for one of the first automobile builders in the US. It consists primarily of a series of switchbacks going up the side of a steep hill. The SCCA stages a hillclimb there once or twice every year. I have had the pleasure and privilege to see a Type 35 Bugatti driven up that road at race pace, something I consider to be a small miracle. I also remember seeing Hal Keck go up that hill in a 427 Cobra on several occasions. He did something vaguely similar to what I saw on the tape, with a couple of important differences. First, although he set the car into a drift at the beginning of the turn, he didn't enter the corner at a rate of speed so high that he had to drift towards the outside to lose speed. He jabbed the brakes to slow down, tossed the wheel towards the inside of the turn, goosed the gas to get the back end out, and then used steering and throttle (hoo-boy, did that car have a go-pedal) to hold the now-drifting car on the best line through the turn, exactly like a dirt track racer would do. Once he could see the straightaway at the exit, he'd feed in more gas, and that beast would belch fire roar and the tires would spin some more and the whole works would slither and hurtle up to the next turn at a rate of speed that can only be described as immorally delightful. It was delicious fun to watch; I can only imagine how much fun Hal Keck was having!

    So I guess I can "get" what those Japanese folks see in lurid slides. It's probably a lot of fun even if it is not the fastest way around the corner. In this day of front wheel drive and torque-free 4-cylinder motors, how else are you ever going to experience a full-opposite-lock four-wheel drift?

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • richawdrichawd Member Posts: 3
    Yesterday and today I installed a single CD player and the under seat subwoofer. WOW!
    The sound is absolutely awesome when compared to the stock the pre woofer setup.

    The provided instructions were very complete and easy to follow. I took about 1/2 hour for the CD player and about 1/2 hour. The woofer was a seperate installation being that I did not know that I needed it until after the CD was installed.

    Next I will replace the stock speakers with sone kind of upgrade. Next payday.

    I would recommend the subwoofer to anyone that does not have one.

    richawd
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