Factory oil filters vs. After Market oil filters

ryanbab · January 2001

Warrenty will be valid as long as you keep detailed (receipts and dates) of your oil changes.

On my silverado the oil pan drain plug is magnetic. I have yet to notice any shavings on it though. The first oil change was done by the dealership cause an AC Delco filter could not be found. Now they are plentiful

My first change was done at 2795 miles.
Second at 6000 exact
third was like 9200 i switched to M1 oil

Ryan

bottgers · January 2001

I found an independant lab study on oil filters by typing in the key words "oil filter testing". Here are some of their findings:

They found the two best filters were the Mobile 1 and Purilator Pure One, with the Mobile 1 being the slightly better of the two. They were chosen because of their superior flow capabilities, high pressure tolerances, filtering abilities, and component materials.

The also stated that all OEM filters were made by various aftermarket companies.

They actually had a list of filters which were not recommended. Fram was at the top of that list. This was a shock to me, as I've used Fram filters all of my life. In fact they referred to Fram filters as "junk". They said all of Fram's filters have a paper element which many times separates from the canister, and peices of the element can actually dislodge and enter your engine, causing damage. They said of the three Fram filters available, only the medium priced filter was OK to use. They said to stay away from the cheapest, and the most expensive ones.

armtdm · January 2001

Yes, have been known to be junk for years. My experience after 9 years of oil analyis, synthetic oil and extended drains has led me to conclude that there are only three filters worth buying. Pure One, Amsoil/Hasting and Mobil 1. Even the OEM filters did not produce the same results as the previous three mentioned. Like most things in life, 90% of the time you get what you pay for. Of course, not true with Castrol Syntec which is not a true synthetic as noted in the Nov issue of Car and Driver, but you pay the inflated price for it!

vadp · January 2001

Who are "they"?
A link, maybe?
Thanks.

bottgers · January 2001

"They" would be lab technicians.

vadp · January 2001

So, independant lab technicians?
Is it a trade union, or something?

bottgers · January 2001

I guess I don't know what you're asking. If you use key words "oil filter tesing", you should be able to find this web site. Unfortunately, I don't remember the site address. Give it a try.

vadp · January 2001

Okay, I was hoping that you found a new site similar to the old one:

http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html

My mistake. Sorry.

biyonic1 · January 2001

As an engineering student I toured an independent lab that tested filters and oil for the companies. During the tour we got to hear horror stories of some oils and filters that were actually nastier than used oil and filters. This applied to OEM's as well!

When asked what the best oil and filter was - this person could not tell us due to him working for the lab. So we rephrased our question, "What oil and filter do you use in your car"

Fram and Penzoil.

mdecamps · January 2001

Everyone, lets not forget about the AC Delco Ultraguard Gold filters....they are arguably as good as the Mobil 1 ane the Pure One.....their micron rating is excellent

bottgers · January 2001

biyonic 1

That lab technician must not care about his car. I haven't seen any data to suggest that Pennzoil is good or bad, but I do know that if it's not full synthetic, it's not providing the best protection. However, I have read in several different studies that Fram filters are no good.

mdecamps

I haven't seen any data that supports your claim. I'm not saying it isn't true, I just haven't seen the data.

adc100 · January 2001

35 years ago I was a M.E. student at Penn State. After 35 years of being in the business, I believe very little of what I hear. Fram's are junk. Mobil 1/Amsoil much better than Pennzoil. Maybe you talked to the sanitation test engineer??

wyattw1 · January 2001

I too used Fram for years, but often wondered if they were really any good. Can anyone recommend an east coast distributor for Mobil 1 or Amsoil filters (chain automotive store, etc)? I've never seen either one. As far as oil goes, TNN had an automotive show called Performance Plus in the 80's. They ran five identical 350 Chevy engines with five different oils for 25,000 miles without a change. After pulling the valve covers and pans, the engine using Quaker State was still relatively clean considering its ordeal. I don't remember all the other oils in the middle, but the Pennzoil motor looked like a sludge factory! This has been supported by other independent lab data I have seen since. Needless to say, I haven't bought the yellow bottles since.

bottgers · January 2001

Mobile 1 and Purilator filters can be purchased at Pep Boys and Autozone that I know of. Amzoil products aren't sold at your typical chain store, you have to locate someone in your area who sells their products.

Pennzoil and Quaker State are one in the same company. I doubt if there's much difference between each one's motor oils.

adc100 · January 2001

Internet under I think Amsoil.com will probably let you contact dealer. armtdm who posts here can help you if you are patient. You can probably email him - check his profile.

Later
Al

wyattw1 · January 2001

Will be making trip to Pep Boys soon...50 mile drive. No wonder I haven't seen them.

e_mcconnell · January 2001

I've been able to find Mobil 1 filters at KMart believe it or not... Has anyone had any experience with K&N oil filters? I've used them along with the Mobil 1 products on my 99 VW Passat 1.8t with no issues. They seem to be the same filter when I compared it to the Mobil 1 filter. Any ideas? As far as oil, I will only use Mobil 1. It's what BMW and Mercedes put in their engines. BTW, I've had 63000+ carefree miles in my Passat... SCHEDULED maintenance is the golden rule when it comes to long lasting cars.

vadp · January 2001

I never saw that one in person.
If they're similar in construction, there is a good chance that they're made by the same manufacturer.
As I know, Champion Labs. makes the Mobil 1 filter and bunch of others.

turbotc · January 2001

MB puts Mobil 1 oil ONLY in their AMG models. The rest of MB cars comes with dino oil.

mack20 · January 2001

Anyone heard of Kralinator brand oil filters?

I was wondering if they were any good. Couldnt get much info from web search.
Who are they made by?

rooba10 · January 2001

I have used FRAM oil filters for years in 85 VW Jetta, 89 Mazda MPV, 89 Olds Ciera, 91 Plymouth Acclaim, 94 Honda Accord, 97 Dodge Caravan, 95 Dodge Stratus, 96 Toyota Camry, 93 Ford Ranger. If I have never seen any oil related engine problems ever, shouldn't I assume FRAM oil filters are OK to use?

armtdm · January 2001

If you change your oil and filter every 3000 miles it make no difference what you use, the cheapest piece of crap filter and oil rated SJ will give you 100,000 miles in today's engines. For longer drains, less hassle and longer life go with synthetics and a Mobil 1, Amsoil or Pure One filters

adc100 · January 2001

with Armtdm

tboner1965 · January 2001

The experienced folks at Contour.org have discovered that using a Fram filter on the Duratec engine leads to a bit of valvetrain noise at start up.

It seems the Fram filter for that engine doesn't include an anti-drainback valve. While the Motorcraft filter (made by Purolator it appears) does have that valve, and there is no such noises at startup.

I realize this is anecdotal, but the folks with the experience are not selling me the filters, so they have nothing to gain.

Maybe saving $2 per oil change important to you. I don't mind spending $5 on a filter that I know was engineered a bit better.

But if you dump your cars after three years, then why bother with using high quality parts.

Cheers,

TB

armtdm · January 2001

Looked at purchasing a 2000 Contour with only 24,000 miles from a dealer, probably a rental car in former life and looked into the oil filler cap. I swiped my finger into the cover and came up with 1/8 inch of sludge/mud. Turned around and said good bye to the salesman. I use Amsoil synthetic and only change my Maxima every 12,000 miles, inside the valve cover looks like the day I got it, clean. But, if you dump a car every year or every three the cheapest products pushed to the limits will suffice and someone else will pay the price

rooba10 · February 2001

Hey guys, if you love to spend money on fancy name oil filters, and $4 a quart mobil 1 oil to feel good. Go ahead. It is not true that I dump any car after 2 years. the old 85 Jetta had 183K miles when I sold it in 90, and our Mazda MPV had 153K when we sold it after 8 years in 97.

Again and again, you are wasting your money. Change your oil every 3 to 4K miles, and let the engine warm up before driving off.

It is crazy to let the car go 12-15K miles before changing the oil just because it has synthetic oil in crankcase. Think about all that stop anf go moisture build up, airborn dirt, and gasoline in the oil. Everytime the gas is ignited, some of that gas/air mixture gets by the rings and reaches the oil.

Just think about all the money you have spent over the years buying higher price oil and filters.

adc100 · February 2001

with an inferior product every 3000 miles and screwing on a $3 filter is your bag...have at it.
It's a free country.. sort of.

Later
Al

oilcan2 · February 2001

That's one reason I use a 2nd by-pass filter
system.I use the amsoil one but there are other
kinds out there.It filters out a few ounces of
water depending what size you use,it filters
dirt down to 1 micron.I change my oil once a year
between 10 and 15k,I change the main filter at
the half way point.
In May I will change the oil,I'll take a oil
sample and post the results,I'll fax anyone
interested the report.

pirat5 · February 2001

Hi!
I also have '99 Passat, but my wise drives it mostly around the town, short distances so in two years she put only 20K miles. So far the car was serviced by the dealer @5000 miles. I think that it was highly abusive to the engine. Now when the free is over I will do the oil changes @3000 as it always should be done. I was also considering switching for synthec., but is it gonna help my already abused engine. Besides, in my opinion that free maintenance is the worst that VW could give us if we want reliable vehicles. It's good for VW because they gonna have lots of work after the warranty period and they gonna sell lots of parts. I just had 20K service done and I had to stay on the top of everything. I had to insist on the brake fluid change, I still have to go to change air filter, because they cad they've done it, but I checked and it's dirty as hell. I fill cheated and I think that's the name of the game, do as much as consumers see and know or as little as possible before they notice. Thanks for your attention. Good luck with this wonderful car abused by service departments.

adc100 · February 2001

you are saying the car is abused? A car should be able to handle 20 K in stop and go for two years unless you did not change oil in that time. If it doesn't use oil than it is probably not abused. Switching to syn in my opinion is the right move for longer engine life. If you want to be conservative change at 500 miles with a good oil filter (Amzoil, Mobile 1, Delco Ultraguard, Pure One) My $.02

jlybny · February 2001

On my 3.8 Buick (1995), if I put a FRAM on, I hear valvetrain noise as if if it was 2 quarts low so, as I have done in the past with my other GM products, I stick with AC-Delco for my oil filters. They've given me satisfaction for barely 40-50 cents more (CDN) per filter than the Fram...
Dunno about other car brands but I've always heard than GM cars were quite fussy about their oil filters...

adc100 · February 2001

product in the driveway for 40 years. Mostly Chevs. Used all kinds with no problems. If you like Delco, go with the Ultraguard otherwise the Mobil 1, Pure one, Amsoil as has been mentioned here many times.

kansan · February 2001

The AC Delco filters are actually less than the Frams at Walmart (about 11 cents I think), so why use an inferior product when you it actually costs a little more? The Motorcrafts are also about the same, although I'm not sure if they're a little more or a little less. I plan on trying the Motorcrafts next because I found out that they use a Purolator Pure One filter element in a Purolator Premium Plus case, and they're less than $3 at Walmart also. After all the evidence against Fram, and the fact that they aren't any cheaper than the AC DElcos and Motorcrafts, why would anyone continue using Fram? Probably the same people that bought the Chevy Vegas in the 70s.
Ken

turbotc · February 2001

I went to Advance Auto Parts yesterday, formerly known as Parts America. Anyways, they had the Purolator Pure One on sale for $4.99 each. Regularly $5.99 each. I bought 4 for each of our cars. I have been using Bosch filters at Autozone for $4.99 each. Same price and I figure the Pure One is better since the filter elements are synthetic.

vadp · February 2001

It's element is not synthetic.

turbotc · February 2001

ahh. Ooops, I thought it was. I'll still keep it for $5 a piece.

bblaha · February 2001

Ok, I guess I have to bite on this one. Can anyone offer a logical reason why a synthetic element is superior than say an...errr... "all natural" one?

What is it about "synthetic" that makes it better than the alternative?

adc100 · February 2001

Actually there are two normally used filter media: Cellulose (paper-cheaper), and fiberglass (normally better and more expensive). The reason fiberglass is superior to the paper ones is that the strands of glass are a uniform thickness and filter more consistantly. They have more pockets (pores) than paper which has only nonuniform holes in the paper. In addition fiberglass media lasts longer. This is measured by multipass tests which measure the ratio of particles trapped at specified particle sizes. I know for a fact that Mobil 1 filters have fiberglass media. From previous discussions on these boards Pure one, Amzoil, and Delco Ultraguard are also of this type. I use the Mobil 1.

Later

vadp · February 2001

I wonder if somebody can clear this up for me.

The oil study page calls the Pure One filter element synthetic.

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html#purolator

On the other hand the Purolator's own site doesn't mention that term anywhere in its product description.

http://www.pureoil.com/featuresandbenefits.htm

Therefore I conclude that its element is not synthetic (a blend maybe).

BTW I use the Motorcraft filter - Pure One media at the half price.

adc100 · February 2001

think it is a paper element with these performance specifications. It's almost certainly fiberglass media. (synthetic-I guess although I never heard it called that)

wilcox · February 2001

After visiting this discussion some time ago, I switched our '96 Toyota Camry and our '99 SVT Contour to this product. Also began using the Pure One filter.

I was using Valveolene fossil in the Camry and the synthetic "blend" for the Contour. The new Mobile 1 works great! I think that the SVT has benefited the most from this change. Both use 5W30.

jodar96 · February 2001

I still feel using Synthetic oil and $5 oil filters are waste of money, but for respect for all of you Synthetic oil users, on my next oil change, I will try Mobile I in my '96 Camry V-6, and will report on how I like it, and whether the gas mileage or car drivebility is any better. The difference will be $20. I still hate to let the car go 7K before oil changes. I do mostly highway driving 70 miles everyday.

By the way based on 150K miles on a car, and 3K vs. 7k oil changes, the cost difference will be about $310.

adc100 · February 2001

I'm not sure how many miles you have on the Camro or how often you have changed oil in the past. I would recommend for the first oil change with the syn you go no more than a 50/50 mix of syn/conventional. I assume you take five quarts. I'd suggest 2 quarts syn. It will get blacker quicker than your conventional oil as it cleans. Change when it gets dark. After a few oil changes you'll be amazed how clean the oil stays. You won't be sorry.

Later
Al

loucirrus99 · February 2001

I have used both factory and after market filters for 35 years of owning and working on cars and have found no real advantage of either except the factory filters are generally more expensive. I have had great success with standard Purolator and yes Fram filters(used the HP version of the Fram for my high horsepower race cars)and never had any oil related failures. Most of my vehicles went well over 100k and some over 200k using standard store bought filters as mentioned before and good quality dino oil. I have no experience with synthetic oils but do know that the combination I've been using has served me very well for many,many years. I will admit since reading about the cheap construction of Fram's lately and I did experience occasional valve noise at startup with these filters I have ceased using them and the valve noise is history. Only using Purolators now. Just my .02
Lou

armtdm · February 2001

70 miles/day. Even with dino you could extend that period due to the high percentage of highway driving you do. As to the recommendation to start with 50/50. WHY???? You will probably not notice any diff though. And, if your Camry V6 is like mine you cannot really see into the valve cover via the filler hole as there is a plate or metal piece blocking the view. So, may not be able to tell if engine clean to begin with or any affect of the synthetic.

As the the above post on filters, well, I have seen a differecne in my oil analysis between the Toyota OEM and the Puralator Pure Ones and Amsoil, both filter better then the OEMs. However, the Toyato air filters seem to filter better then the after market ones, even the oil foam ones!

loucirrus99 · February 2001

First,in the previous post about the Purolator Pure One oil filters, I have not had any analysis done on my oil but have definitely noticed that my oil stays cleaner longer with the Pure Ones.

In relation to the Toyota air filters what indicates that they are better than say Frams or Purolators? Is it that they need to be changed more frequently indicating better filtering?
Thanks in advance
Lou

adc100 · February 2001

Just a conservative approach. We could probably argue about it. As you know syn cleans up really good and if the engine is very dirty it may break so much loose at a time that it could mess up the sender unit (note likely though). He'll still get benefits of syn and be able to go longer on the first change without the oil getting dark real fast, which might freak him out. I'm an old man and when you get there you want to do everything slower and more conservative.

Later

armtdm · February 2001

Toyota air filters. I change once a year. Well, I do oil analyis at least once a year, sometimes twice and over the 9 year life of this car (still going at 130,000) I noticed that the silicon (dirt, well, could be silicon seals as well,especially in the first 20,000 miles. Analysis cannot tell if dirt or silicon seals wearing in) in the analysis (measured as parts per million/ ppm) was lower when I used the Toyota air filters. The others I tried were Puralator and the Amsoil oil foam filters. (foam is fine but a real pain to clean and re-oil and I saw no difference) I did see a drop in the ppm when I kept the same air filter but either the Amsoil or Pure One filters for oil. So, my statement is based solely on my experience with the Toyota and oil analysis.

Factory oil filters vs. After Market oil filters

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